yep, met and spoke with Marcus many times when we were both there and met his parents on one of their visits and you can see why he is the type of man he is, great guy and happy he returned.
Malcolm Bernard in Elite 8
- Thread starter UR Fan 2
- Start date
The frustrating thing about admissions is that it seems they have no desire or idea on how to change. Taking someone who is borderline or maybe has had some trouble academically can look really good if that person turns it around. Look at Mo Allie Cox at vcu. I hate everything about that guy but he is a true success story. Success stories make admissions and schools as a whole better as far as reputation. Do we have any stories like that? Not to my knowledge. We need to start taking guys like Mo Allie Cox because it will help our team and also create a really inspiring story. The thing is that so many guys who don't do well academically are actually really good kids and deserve a chance, there are also plenty of really smart kids that are complete screw ups and will never get anywhere in life. I have seen both of these so many times. It's time for our admissions to start moving forward and taking some chances.
all well and good if you can tell me, you cannot, where our line in the sand is. at some point you have to say no to some candidates, whether they are just students or student/athletes. feel that admissions works with the coaches on marginal recruits but give a hard number they have to attain. it is then up to that recruit to meet that number. that is fair, you are cooperating, giving chances but at some point the young man or woman has to perform and if they do, voila, if not, you get message board uproar.
Maybe we offer the admissions staff offices with windows instead of cubicles? Maybe that would help them see "the light of day"?
It would be interesting to know which schools in the A10 accept partial qualifiers. I know, VCU, Dayton and Fordham have had partial qualifiers very recently, I assume most of the other A10 schools would accept PQs. I would guess Richmond, Davidson and maybe GW are the only schools that don't accept PQs in the A10.
We need to start accepting partial qualifiers. At the end of the day do y'all really care about saying we have better admissions standards and better test scores then vcu? I would hope that answer is no. We would rather beat them on the court. I'm tired of losing, I want to win big!
I'm in favor of further relaxing admissions standards for basketball players, but I'm not in favor of us accepting Partial Qualifiers. PQ's are always a gamble, and when they do wash out, it's always a bad PR event.
I am not advocating admitting PQs, but if a school does admit PQs then they have absolutely no minimum academic standards for their athletes. I think that we are one of only 2 or 3 schools in the A10 that apply any academic standard to our basketball players.
I don't agree with that Ulla, I or
I don't agree with that Ulla, I originally applied at VCU were I was a transfer student at JS Reynolds Community College. I graduated from UR in '78. I am glad matriculated at UR. I don't believe in downgraded anyone.
We catch a lot of grief from Broad Street U fans for our academic claims, even though they are true. But rarely have I heard anyone on this board day, 'Sure, they beat us more than we beat them, but our players have higher GPAs.'
I think almost all of us here just want to win games on the court. I know I do. I don't know who to aim my frustration at these days. Mooney? The Admissions Office? Whoever sucked at recruiting for us for 4 years? Miller for handing out $12M contracts?
I just want to win games, beat Broad Street U and make the NCAAs. This year was fun, and we probably overachieved in some ways -- and I'm very bullish on our future -- but come on. Six straight years without dancing, for what we are spending is UNACCEPTABLE.
Someone should be held accountable, but of course no one will be.
I think almost all of us here just want to win games on the court. I know I do. I don't know who to aim my frustration at these days. Mooney? The Admissions Office? Whoever sucked at recruiting for us for 4 years? Miller for handing out $12M contracts?
I just want to win games, beat Broad Street U and make the NCAAs. This year was fun, and we probably overachieved in some ways -- and I'm very bullish on our future -- but come on. Six straight years without dancing, for what we are spending is UNACCEPTABLE.
Someone should be held accountable, but of course no one will be.
Spinner - I was told our line in the sand is a 2.5 GPA. I was told Bernard graduated with a 2.4 GPA and at the end of the day that was the reason given. Can't say for sure this is true but heard it from someone who would know. If that is indeed true I find it frustrating but I guess a rule is a rule.......
I'm also in favor of creating exceptions or expanding the standard. At some point you have to toe the line though, otherwise why have a standard.
The other consideration is you have to keep the guy eligible and ideally get them to graduate. Relaxing Admissions doesn't guarantee that academics will similarly relax their standards.
the easy way is to further relax standards, but they're already pretty low compared to the general student population.
or we can do it with strong student athletes. that's more work. we have to land enough of them. but we've done it before and I think we're doing it now. I prefer that way.
or we can do it with strong student athletes. that's more work. we have to land enough of them. but we've done it before and I think we're doing it now. I prefer that way.
Agree. Great, inspiring story. Unfortunately, he's not the only one on the team. Doughty and Burgess are/were partial qualifiers. Which leads me to this statement below...
I agree with this statement more. I don't want UR to be a team full of partial qualifiers. That's just my opinion though. However, I also want our team in the NCAAs. As we all know, we just missed on Bernard and it sucks massively and I do feel that admissions should bend occasionally. That being said, a line must be drawn somewhere.
We have the resources to give kids who are below our usual admissions standards the extra academic help they would need to remain eligible and graduate. Whether or not the school thinks the kid can handle the class work and graduate should trump his test scores and GPA in my opinion. Other schools with higher academic ranking than we have do this (Georgetown, Duke, Wake, Cal and UCLA, Michigan, Vandy, etc.) and it doesn't seem to diminish their reputations one bit.
Out of high school maybe, but Bernard had that gpa as a college graduate. He was here for one year to take a couple graduate classes, we could have accomodated that. Denying Bernard to me was just someone slapping their junk out on the table to show who is boss around here. Gill and Mooney clearly didn't have the power to overrule their little show of power, which should be concerning to all us.
maybe they told him he had to get a 2.5 while here and he did not, just don't know and probably most of us don't know. if we went up to another higher conf, would be all for relaxing some, even though we already do but not really for doing it anymore than we do now with our current affiliation. it is up to the coaches in their recruiting to know the deal and to work accordingly. when they find someone who is outside even our relaxed standard then it is a crap shoot and they know it and should not be ticked off if it does not work out. if not for social media, we would not even have known about this guy. understand that there are guys littering the college basketball landscape that we could not get in and i can live with that. if we were in a conf where it would mean a shot at a national title, if they speak, let them in, we are not.
Your posts are hard to read. Maybe it is just me, since it was a long time ago that I had English 101.
I think we have done ok with this model historically, but I think it means you go to the tournament every 4-5 years, not consistently. I personally would prefer we go more often.
Last edited:
we need standards, and I'm glad we have them. I believe we should be a University with a great basketball team, not a great basketball team with a University on the side. But for discussion suppose 2.5 is the minimum standard, would you rather have a student that has a 2.51 from a weak HS, who never scored higher than a 2.8 nor lower than a 2.3; or a kid with a 2.4 from a strong academic HS, that suffered personal illness, or issues (family death, divorce, etc) and suffered grade wise for one or more years, and the remainder of the time was a 3.0 or similar? I don't think a standard should be a hard and fast line, but if you are below the standard the story needs to be compelling.
Compelling like a talented and high character D1 athlete who has already graduated from college and wants to use his final year of eligibility at Richmond?
Sad but I buy it. Like I have stated previously, higher up(s) at UR place academics above athletics. In reality it should be that way, but presently the landscape of CFB and CBB shows so much money (not needed by UR) and prestige (ironically would showcase UR's high academic standard) is out there to be had.
Last edited:
I agree completely. Right now in the A10 not as meaningful in accepting say 2.4's b-ball players as if the Spiders were part of the Big East where the stakes are much higher. That said if not for the priority of competing with the guys across town, I think this board's alum would not consider this a major issue. Presently it is what it is, UR goes for the student/athlete while they go for the athlete/crossing our fingers student.
I could not disagree more in this instance. This is not a partial qualifier, not a kid from some "prep school" no one has ever heard of, not a kid with a checkered past. This is a player who has already graduated from college with a 2.4 GPA - not stellar but a C+ average. Obviously no one on this board, or at the University of Richmond overall, has ever graduated with a 2.4 GPA but I've heard it does happen. Especially when working a full time job. I think we can debate the merits of graduate transfers in general, but drawing an arbitrary line in the sand for a player who has graduated already and wants to spend a year at Richmond is crazy. To everyone here that wants to complain INCESSANTLY about Mooney and the job he does please take a step back and consider that maybe he has some institutional limitations that his competition does not and just maybe he runs a pretty damn good program considering the requirements of the administration.
as stated before, don't think anyone on here knows the full story. maybe they told the coach, will work with you, get him here and he has to do so and so to be admitted. he came, he saw, did not conquer, thus was not admitted. we have relaxed standards for student/athletes and then there are those who are even below that and we try and work with the coaches on those guys but those guys have to perform to be admitted. seems like some of us are not looking at the full picture, feel admissions does work with our coaches but sometimes it is up to the young man or woman to perform academically and they do not. do we want to go to, if they can walk, speak, we will take them or do we wish to have some standard, which is below what we normally have for the rest of the students and can have some flexibility with those who don't even meet that lower standard? most of the time, as it should be, there is no prob. then we have social media where the young man, announces to the world, i am a gopher, mule, SPIDER, when in reality, they are not and the opens up a huge prob for fans, the school, the coaches and of course, the young man. am sure that CM and the staff would prefer that none of this was in the media, just kept private, not going to happen and that is too bad.
Now Hamdy has the kind of transcript we should avoid - initially ineligible due to some funky high school, junior college, etc. To me, that kind of resume is not what Richmond wants for its program. Bernard is/was a different deal. To Spinners point, at least what I could gather, we don't want to just take anyone. Hamdy is just anyone. Bernard seems like a low risk/high reward transfer who is by ALL accounts a solid citizen. Missed opportunity for our Spiders.
Point taken and that certainly needs to be a major consideration when evaluating Mooney. On the other side of that coin was his recruitment of Diekvoss, Smithen, Kovien, Singleton, Jesse. None of those guys were even close to A-10 caliber players, heck some of them are just average D-2 players. Those were all huge recruiting misses that set our program back for several years. That has to be part of his story and legacy here. There are several guys coming in next year that come with the same question marks as some of those players as well.
if we move our line in the sand to 2.4, we won't get someone at 2.3 and you guys still won't be happy. there's always going to be someone close.
we're a great academic university. we want to have a great basketball program too, but the line is a 2.5 GPA for grad transfers apparently.
we're a great academic university. we want to have a great basketball program too, but the line is a 2.5 GPA for grad transfers apparently.
Would have been nice to get Bernard, but I'm a lot more sad we didn't get this guy:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066218/grant-williams
There are no academic issues as he was recruited by the Ivy league, he would have been more effective than Bernard, and we'd have him for three more years. There are plenty of good players out there that meet our academic profile and our staff is better served figuring out how to land more of these players than figuring out how to drop GPA requirements below 2.5
Seriously, if he was added to our current crop we'd have four straight years of NCAA appearances.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066218/grant-williams
There are no academic issues as he was recruited by the Ivy league, he would have been more effective than Bernard, and we'd have him for three more years. There are plenty of good players out there that meet our academic profile and our staff is better served figuring out how to land more of these players than figuring out how to drop GPA requirements below 2.5
Seriously, if he was added to our current crop we'd have four straight years of NCAA appearances.
Let's not forget Luke P., and so far, I can count the minutes that PF has played for our team on two hands. Kwesi was also a barely serviceable player who got minimal floor time at Northeastern, and his talent or lack thereof should have been a lot more obvious to CM than some kid coming out of HS.
At the end of the day, further relaxing the admissions standards for basketball is about the only way we will be able to recruit on a level playing field with the rest of the A10 until at least 2021.
Similar threads
