Upon reflection, I think that all of us have really underestimated the coach and his long term plan. After this year the coach will have 5 years left on his contract. It is all very clear now! Based on the consensus of the board, his recruiting for the next two years sets him up to have a NCAA caliber team in the 18-19 season and also 19-20 just in time to get a another 10 year extension on his contract that ends in 1921. The board and the Spider Nation again will be "gaga". The coach is no one's fool, he has 30 year plan to retirement and we are just seeing phase 1!
Coach Mooney's Long Term Plan
- Thread starter 9Legs
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That all makes sense, except for the fact he'd be working somewhere else for twice the money if we continued making the ncaa after 2011.
The point is there is very little pressure at the UR. Run a clean program, recruit good citizens, graduate your players who stay 4 years, represent the school in positive manner, be competitive and go the "big dance" 20% of the time and you are a "made man"! Mooney to his credit has figured this out and he is not going any where. He plays by the rules that UR has set and he is home free! He doesn't want the pressure of a "big time" program!
Unfortunately for Cleveland Love has been a bust. Mostly because Lebron hates him. BTW should the coach have been fired?
I don't think so, but I am a sucker for the status quo. I mean, they made it to the championship last year and were 30-11 so far this year. I wouldn't fire a coach in that scenario, though he may have been losing the locker room. If the players don't want him and won't play for him it is hard to keep him.
Hard to blame the coach when you get blown out by 34 at home. Of course it was against the best shooting team ever. Coach wasn't LeBrons dude though. And James runs that team.
Do you honestly think Mooney's 'plan' is to tank 8 years to get another contact at the end? Say what you want about his strategy but the guy wants to win more than we do. How many of these f'ing threads do we need?
I don't care what your occupation is, if you have a job that you're happy with, and have worked in it for a long time, and have job security; it's hard NOT to get complacent about things, even if you are trying hard not to....
Accountability is a great motivator. On whatever level, this board holds our school and staff accountable. So long as things are civil, we shouldn't be too hard on those posters who question in a reasonable way.
Yes, this from the guy who started the FIRE MOONEY thread (now approaching Top Ten status with nearly 300 replies)
Accountability is a great motivator. On whatever level, this board holds our school and staff accountable. So long as things are civil, we shouldn't be too hard on those posters who question in a reasonable way.
Yes, this from the guy who started the FIRE MOONEY thread (now approaching Top Ten status with nearly 300 replies)
Very good post although I'm a bit lukewarm on the complacency thing. It may vary from business to business, institution to institution, or individual to individual.
I'm 100% in agreement on the accountability thing. Based upon the last 4 years, I've wondered where that lies. What are the criteria to measure performance versus expectations? What are the goals, & have they been achieved? How is success defined?
Through the years I've read a good amount of thought on this board about "next year". Is "next year" the perpetual criteria for some? Is that a realistic notion, or does it just move the current to the future?
Dude, I'm light as a feather, just saying not everyone finds it humorous. For the record, I'm in neither camp.
I doubt anyone considers this board the method by which CM is going to be accountable. I have no idea what the university considers a successful bball program, but I think being around 20 wins a year with good student athletes, minimal drama, and occasional post-season berths isn't a low bar, so maybe they're fine with that. I'd like a bit more success but who wouldn't?
I doubt anyone considers this board the method by which CM is going to be accountable. I have no idea what the university considers a successful bball program, but I think being around 20 wins a year with good student athletes, minimal drama, and occasional post-season berths isn't a low bar, so maybe they're fine with that. I'd like a bit more success but who wouldn't?
Rick, have to disagree. Successful people love what they do and are driven to do it. This is especially true for high achievers. Driven people don't know complacency. Pretty sure as Mo stated earlier that no one wants to win more than Coach Mooney. That's just how it is. OSC
As I have questioned for many years I wonder to what extent our admissions folks have blocked entrance to good prospects (better than what we have signed to date) that would otherwise be inclined to sign with us. Perhaps none but it sure would be nice to know the real effect that admissions had on recruiting.
I am sure there have been many, even if it is at the beginning stages of looking at each prospect. Which is something RPI doesn't ever consider while recruiting.
I don't think it has much to do with admissions, I think it's about whether or not the player can succeed academically. If we want a player in who can get through the class work, I think they get in. I doubt admissions says no. But I also stayed at a holiday inn express last night, so what do I know...
I don't know the specifics of his contract, but I am pretty sure Mooney gets paid more if we make the NCAA tournament. If your salary depends on your performance it is not as easy to get complacent.
Tbone, I get your humor and enjoy it. As for 20 wins, it's not the yardstick it use to be, teams routinely are playing 33,34,35 games now. Without looking I think we've even had a coupe 20-15 seasons under Mooney. While 20-15 certainly isn't bad by any means, a 20 win season used to be Whoa Nelly, not so much now. It depends on personnel, and to some extent how long they have been playing. In my opinion, when you have a bunch of guys who have 3 or 4 years of experience, and this year was suppose to be "their year", 13 or 14 loses could be considered to be underachieving.
I agree 20 wins does not mean the same it used to. I put more emphasis on the number of losses when evaluating a season. But then who you played can skew that number also.
For those that want to consistently voice their frustration on here, I hope you are voicing the same level of frustration directly to KG, RC, and CM. They are the ones that can properly respond to your frustration and perhaps do something about it if they agree. Your fellow posters have no more control than you do, and if you are trying to get someone else to do your "dirty" work, well...............
For those that want to consistently voice their frustration on here, I hope you are voicing the same level of frustration directly to KG, RC, and CM. They are the ones that can properly respond to your frustration and perhaps do something about it if they agree. Your fellow posters have no more control than you do, and if you are trying to get someone else to do your "dirty" work, well...............
True but it's a question of how much is guaranteed & how much is incentives. I'm willing to bet his guarantee is quite an impressive amount that most on this site would love to have in their professions. After a run on this long term contract, that's a whole lot of $$$$$$$$.
Mooney's main issue with recruiting is the shallow pool of smart, clean cut players with 3-4 star talent. There are 5 or 6 programs grabbing up all that talent. Kids don't commit in 9th grade when Mooney makes first contact. When Duke, Stanford and UVA start offering, these guys see stars and Mooney is forced to find diamonds in the rough. He's done OK considering.
No more 10 year contracts. If we learn anything from UVA we should have learned this. Plus I hate to remind folks we said when the current group of seniors were recruited that they would take us into the top 25 and deep into the NCAA tourney.
It's all relative. If you make $800k and have a $200 or even $500 incentive, you may be comfortable with the 800 so the incentive is nice but not necessary to have a good life.
IMHO, many of you on this messageboard don't get it. High achievers are not driven by money, rather by the challenge. Work hard, be successful, and you will be rewarded. Personally, have never been driven or even aware of money. The rewards have come, but have never been a goal. ISC
Every recruit we ever sign is blown up to the next big thing. My lord when we signed Diekvoss, people were hyping up his shooting and the fact that he was a two sport star that he would provide great toughness, physicality for us.
I'm no expert but to me, if you look at who else is looking at a player, that is a pretty good indicator. When I saw that Diekvoss, only other offer was Northern Kentucky, I knew we were cooked. Pretty sure I got ripped on here for saying that as well.
Good news is that Demonte, Sherod, and the Godwin kid for 17 all either had offer from BCS programs (Demonte and Sherod) or were getting "heavy interest: from BCS programs. These are the type of kids we need to consistently recruit and consistently get. We're paying Mooney great dough, he has to go out and sell the program to recruits who have at least some equal and better offers. He has done that recently and am optimistic for the future because of that.
He was not doing that the 3-4 years classes prior to this. We were consistently the best offer for almost every kid we got. He was able to mine some diamonds in the rough during that time period who became pretty nice players, but the math on doing that with every recruit is not good. And that is why we have been running a 8 man playing rotations the past several years and hoping for NIT bids.
I know what you are saying, but this is a pet peeve of mine. Every kid goes to the school that they consider to be their best offer. Every kid has different reasons for their choice, but they always choose the school and program they think is best for them. The key is for Mooney to make Richmond the best offer for the recruits we value.
Sure the coach wants to win more than many of us and be successful but he also fits perfectly into the UR basketball model( all sports for that matter) which can best be described as very patient and forgiving on wins and losses, if coaches as previously mentioned run a clean program, recruit good citizens, graduate your players who stay 4 years, represent the school in positive manner, be competitive and go the NCAA every now and then. It is what it is and we are who we are. The school will also be very generous with resources for facilities and various other forms of support(charters)to promote the image(or brand) that they want to project. Brand projection is priority #1
Consider the following
1) Crutcher could care less about athletics as long as the brand is protected
2) The same can be said for the Board of Trustees whose main objective is brand projection and political correctness at al levels. Athletics are considered an annoyance.
3)Gill is on auto pilot seeking that next big job and will not rock the boat.
As a backdrop he also has the "academic" wild card if wins and losses are questioned. He like Mooney has the model figure out.
4)I doubt there are many alumni left who are also MAJOR donors who really care about basketball and football who could or want to influence the direction of the basketball and football programs.
As noted this post was an attempt at humor, but there is a lot of truth to it. Head coaching jobs at UR are like GS-16 government jobs where your #1 priority is to protect and enhance the brand. Wins and losses are secondary! It is what it is and we are who we are, so for all sports it is best that we fans temper are expectations because all of the above have.
Consider the following
1) Crutcher could care less about athletics as long as the brand is protected
2) The same can be said for the Board of Trustees whose main objective is brand projection and political correctness at al levels. Athletics are considered an annoyance.
3)Gill is on auto pilot seeking that next big job and will not rock the boat.
As a backdrop he also has the "academic" wild card if wins and losses are questioned. He like Mooney has the model figure out.
4)I doubt there are many alumni left who are also MAJOR donors who really care about basketball and football who could or want to influence the direction of the basketball and football programs.
As noted this post was an attempt at humor, but there is a lot of truth to it. Head coaching jobs at UR are like GS-16 government jobs where your #1 priority is to protect and enhance the brand. Wins and losses are secondary! It is what it is and we are who we are, so for all sports it is best that we fans temper are expectations because all of the above have.
Kind of sort of. I think there's a point where it does become relative. Using your example, I would have to believe many many people would think that $800k is a pretty big amount where the incentive may not be significant in money terms; more so from the achievement end. Now, if we're talking a lower amount (example: 100 to 200K) then the incentive angle would have more significance.
I'm just sick of getting amped up for a new season every year in which there at least seems to be a reasonable expectation that we could win the league and/or make the NCAAs and then find that we failed to do either one. Again. My expectations at this point are NIT at best. I hope to be surprised, but I have seen this movie before.
I feel like the identity of the program will change significantly going forward starting with next year's freshman class. Buckingham and Sherrod are used to winning and along with Shawndre will expect to win. Buckingham at this point is our biggest ambassador for the future and his personality and competitive nature will lead the way and help bring in talent that will get us to the next level.
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