? they shot the same from 3. and Jake did it on heavier volume than Jeff other than Jeff's senior year.
Wojcik and Gustavson
- Thread starter LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster
- Start date
Wasn't Goose late to start learning the system here last year because of military training?
Philly, my problem is when CM calls Goose our best perimeter defender, I think it's marginal. do you see him as a defensive difference maker? he gives great effort. he's pretty athletic. he seems to have long arms. but in 22 mpg he's a 1.1 steal per game guy, with 1.5 assists and 2.3 boards. he's a good player and I like him. I'm just not sure he's a game changing defender. I don't see it. but I look forward to seeing how much he's developed over the offseason. maybe I'm wrong.
He was both late and by his own admission had language/communication challenges early on that he felt prevented him from understanding the system.
I expect he will be loads better prepared this year after a year plus embedded in the language and learning the systems the coaches intend to employ this year.
Look, I think we all agree that we have eight guys who could play 30+ minutes a game. So let's just do that. It should work out great for us.
I popped into a practice recently and Woj impressed me the most. He looked considerably bigger than last year, with a college hoops body vs a HS body. He made impressive moves to the basket. I anticipate him looking at the three and then making a move towards the hoop for a pull up, reverse lay-up, or to dish. He'll be a lot less exhausted than last year because he won't be handling the ball as much with Blake in the rotation, and he's in better condition. I see him as one of those kids who's always on Davidson and we say - why can't we recruit a kid like that? Smart, sneaky good, and underrated. I think we have that in Woj this year.
I really don’t see Sherod getting 30+ like in past. More like 25 if he’s fully recovered. If he’s getting 30+ he’s either all league (good) or because our bench sucks (bad). I expect he’ll also be the guy Mooney uses regularly for the match up subbing similar to geriot/Garrett esp in tight games. Out for defense in for offense.
I’m sure no one will notice the extra man we have on the court, especially if we do it from game one. Everyone will assume we somehow had that grandfathered in.
Agree. Wojcik is much better than described on this forum. You can see it written all over him when you watch him play in person. FOR A TRUE FRESHMAN, he had a fantastic year last season. Freshman issues, of course, he is going to get better and better.
Impressed you the most vs Gus, or like most impressive, and looked better than Francis? Will be very interesting how he is worked into games. A lot interesting story lines, which is different in years past. I feel like that has been a real killer, last couple of years we basically have five guys that know as long as they dont slip and break a leg walking to the RC they are guaranteed big minutes. And they sure play defense like they know the coach can't bench them
Had to laugh at this. I'm sure the first language hurtle he got over was understanding the "f" bomb
Looked better than everyone on the floor during the time I watched. Granted, it was practice, though he was all out hustling, making moves and shots.
Good report pride, nice to hear. As I said, I think it will be great to have some competition this year. Everyone seemed to be indicating that Mooney has already anointed Francis the starting spot over Woj - but sounds like Woj is battling and looking good doing so. I really think some positional battles are good.
I agree Philly - our defense suffers. But I think Mooney is more on the offensive tract and might be thinking the improved offense with having all shooters on the floor outweighs the defensive issues. Not saying I agree with it - but just saying that seems to be the thought process lately.
I also wonder how bad the defense would be. Going small and playing the matchup might work better as guys will not have to worry, with the exception of Golden - switching on other players. The real negative is rebounding - it is great if we can force the other team into a bad shot or contested shot, but if we can't get the rebound - its pointless. So we would really need all 5 guys getting dirty in the paint and scrapping for boards.
I also wonder how bad the defense would be. Going small and playing the matchup might work better as guys will not have to worry, with the exception of Golden - switching on other players. The real negative is rebounding - it is great if we can force the other team into a bad shot or contested shot, but if we can't get the rebound - its pointless. So we would really need all 5 guys getting dirty in the paint and scrapping for boards.
We may change our defense to some extent this year.
But in the past, I feel the defense we use was designed to not need good defenders. But does require all to be average defenders, and all to know what they are suppose to do and what everyone on the rest of the team is going to do. Or it falls apart rather disastrously...
But in the past, I feel the defense we use was designed to not need good defenders. But does require all to be average defenders, and all to know what they are suppose to do and what everyone on the rest of the team is going to do. Or it falls apart rather disastrously...
The matchup zone/switching man is a remarkably brittle defense. Philly has commented at length on the problems with it, most of which center around the vast amount of effort there is to execute it and that it is not an instinctual defense, it's cerebral with massive effort expenditure.
It sounds like CM has come around to realizing that for reasons unknown, his D has been ineffective for big stretches the past several seasons, and a change is needed. I think it's a nice wrinkle to throw out there if we have guys who have played it for a couple of years now and can execute it relatively competently. I just wouldn't want it to be the base D.
I think dead and gone is perhaps an overstatement. I think what he's said is that we are going to more of a traditional man defense this year. I would be surprised if he didn't trot out the matchup at least periodically.
I'm not sure it's a defense you can play part time. it's hard enough to play it well when you're committed to it and spending a ton of time working on it.
it's a very effective defense with the right personnel, but trying to stay with it without the right athletes turns out was a mistake.
it's a very effective defense with the right personnel, but trying to stay with it without the right athletes turns out was a mistake.
It wasn't dead and gone last year, and I have a hard time seeing him totally abandon it. I like this defense and it can work - but you need at least 4 guys who can switch and defend anyone, and then with that 5th guy - whether its a really big guy like Golden or smaller guy like Gilyard - you must have the basketball IQ to know how to avoid those bad matchups and how to quickly get out of them before the other teams take advantage.
The matchup defense was a key reason we made the back to back NCAA runs. But also remember, you had 5 guys on the floor almost all the time who had played together for multiple years and knew each other inside and out in terms of rotations and switches. we have not had that since.
exactly. you either play it or you don't. and i believe that this year, we are on the "don't" side.
College basketball has changed dramatically since 2011 and the game change, along w/ our inexperience the last 3 years, has determined the switch.
Would agree. I think what I’m saying is that I don’t see CM giving up on it completely.
I see a lot of discussion of defense on here. Does anybody think that since we now have a bench the defense may pick up a bit? Last year once someone came off the bench we usually groaned but this year it shouldn't be as bad as the past couple years.
It may not change a thing but now if a guy gets in foul trouble the game isn't over for us.
It may not change a thing but now if a guy gets in foul trouble the game isn't over for us.
For me, it's totally dependent on Grant. If he's still the same turnstile, then I go from cautiously optimistic to decidedly pessimistic pretty quickly.
I hate to put it on one kid, but he's so critical, and he has so much potential to be a great all around player. I just don't think he's had to be accountable enough on the defensive end yet. I'm hoping the greater depth helps resolve that last problem.
I hate to put it on one kid, but he's so critical, and he has so much potential to be a great all around player. I just don't think he's had to be accountable enough on the defensive end yet. I'm hoping the greater depth helps resolve that last problem.
Good stuff Kneepad, as much as the discussion around Burton, Sherod, etc. I am thinking the same thing. Grant has been great offensively, if he can take even another step forward AND pick up the defensive end that is huge. I don't doubt his desire on the defensive end, I am thinking this is a coaching/decision to hold him back because of our lack of depth and need for his offense. That is why I feel it is critical to have more depth. Same thing applied with TJ, great great player, but couldn't afford to compete on D.
Depth clearly helps, less tired and more fouls available.
to kneepad’s point, 150+ of our minutes will be for starters, so those starters need to be markedly better on D, particularly interior D.
what is your definition of markedly? Anywhere between where we were and UVA will work. We were in 95% of the games last year and a handful of stops in the 2nd half and we go from winning 12 to at least 16 or 17. I think any improvement (and of course the bigger the better) in both D and FT shooting will make a big difference. Raising our defensive efficiency numbers AND raising our FT% to the A10 average (which if I'm not mistaken is still just the upper 60s %) will make a big difference.
For the poster who mentioned Grant's defense. The break downs started on the perimeter and he was left as last line.
What do you want Grant to do differently? If Grant were a great athlete who could consistently grab double digit rebounds and block shots, he would be a top P6 player, and a soon to be NBA pick. It is very rare to find a big his size who is great offensively and defensively. The effort on defense is there from him. We don't want him challenging every shot, and getting in foul trouble every game. I think he has done a good job picking his spots, getting some blocks, staying out of foul trouble, and preventing some other bigs from having big nights. Bottom line is he is a great player and we are lucky to have him.
I agree with this. There were many times when Grant faced an impossible situation, where he had to contest a guard, leaving his man wide open, or give the guard a wide open layup. This was a huge source of offensive rebounds for our opponents (no one was left to box out the big).
I think you're being generous stating that we were in 95% of games last year. Of our 20 losses, only 7 were by 6 points or fewer. Admittedly, 6 points or fewer is arbitrary, maybe you consider "in" it to be 8 or 10 points. But that means we had 13 losses where we weren't in it, which is nearly 40% of the full schedule, the percentage gets even worse when you look at just the games we lost. Yes, we could have won a handful of those 7 close games with better D and FT shooting, so agree with you there, but we were thoroughly non-competitive in a larger spate of games.
Beyond that, you may be reading something into my statement that isn't there. My point was to address the question of would we be better on D with a deeper bench. Anecdotally I think this is true, but my point is that marked defensive improvement still has to come from last year's starters, most of whom are going to be starting this year. So while I think bench depth is going to help, most of the improvement still has to come from the guys who saw a lot of PT last year.
Last edited:
Grant frequently has looked disinterested in playing tough defense. Maybe that's because he's been coached that way so that he doesn't pick up cheap fouls, maybe it's because he hasn't been coached NOT to do that, maybe it's because he's winded from having to play so much, maybe it's just because he's bad at defense, who knows. I'm not going to rip the kid because I'm very glad we have him. But there have been a lot of head-scratching "efforts" on defense the first two years. There's no reason he can't at least hold his hands up on defense when his guy is driving for a shot, for example.
He's a very good and perhaps great offensive player. He is simply NOT good on defense - - - or at least hasn't been. He must be able to play much better defense much more often AND stay out of foul trouble. Its no achievement to just stay out of foul trouble. In his case, I think step one should be (and hopefully he's done this) getting in much better shape. TJ's defense got much better when he really amped up his conditioning etc. Grant gets a lot of fouls (or just gives up a lot of buckets when he concedes rather than fouling) as a result of being out of position and late to spots etc. He tends to follow his guy around and play behind him everywhere. This leads to all kind of problems. A lot of collegiate bigs get away with this in high school because they are often so much better physically and athletically (not to mention bigger) than the other guys that they can't/don't really get hurt playing behind all game long and they just build bad habits of following their man around all night. Interior defense at our level (especially for a guy like Grant who isn't that athletically gifted) requires phenomenally hard work to constantly beat people to their spots and get proper angles to play defense from etc. Being in great shape (especially if not especially gifted athletically) is absolutely required. The match up no doubt hindered that development too because there was so much more to learn that some of those interior basics went without being addressed. But if we are straight man this year, they must be addressed and Grant must be better and must be playing defense all the time, not picking his spots. Yes, there will be plays when he needs to avoid fouls etc. but he needs to be sure that there are way, way less of those than we saw last year.
While Grant not growing into a much better defensive player worries me, our perimeter defense worries me more. Teams got to wherever they wanted on the floor whenever they wanted last year. This included guys with and without the ball. Everybody's offense looked like a smooth running machine against us. Its not like we had one weakness, we were terrible all the way around. Lots of open perimeter looks, lots (and lots) of dribble penetration, lots of set plays to free up specific guys, lots of interior post ups. Most defenses have a few key things they are trying to accomplish and a weakness or two that IF they are going to get beat, its going to be in these areas. So the packline at UVA is absolutely clear that they are taking away deep post ups and dribble penetration. Its a clear rule of the packline for example that they will devote two (perimeter) defenders (at virtually all times) to stop dribble penetration. And if they are going to get beat, its going to be with perimeter shots. They don't concede open jumpers, but they stop penetration at all costs and will try and recover to challenge perimeter jumpers. So the packline is man to man defense with underlying principles to dictate how each player plays his man etc.
I honestly have no idea what our defense the last two years was trying to do because we give up everything. The match up seemed to be so mostly based on knowing when to switch. But with little underlying principles as to now that we have a man to cover, what are we trying to do (aside from look for the next switch)?? We seem so busy worrying about getting switches right that there was no time to discuss how we were defending as a team or as individuals once we had had actually switched. My concern here is that it wasn't (just) system/coaching but that the players simply aren't good enough as straight up one on one defenders. What if there were underlying principles and we just could't execute? And there is great reason to be concerned here. We are not at all athletically gifted at most spots in that first 5. The players we have who might have some athletic gifts (as opposed to skills) like Jacob and Blake with their quicks are also challenged by their lack of height. They'll need to figure out (and a system that helps them would be nice) how they can use their gift and hide their weakness. JG last year for example, really only uses his quickness to his advantage to get steals. Steals are good, but that kind of quickness should also be used to be able to stop dribble penetration (by one's own man as well as others as you help) , but JG's quickness didn't manifest itself this way at all. I have some theories as to why (but that would make this an anti-Mooney diatribe), but simply put, he needs to be better. He and Blake need to be able to at least take away direct dribble penetration from the other teams guards. If that means less steals or some open threes, its where we have to start defensively. We have to stop people from just running their offense so comfortably!
Excellent write up Philly. I am not as technical as you, I have in the past read some different literature on defenses - but the level I coached at I really had to keep it simpler. I did like Mack's notes at Xavier on the pack line.
I completely agree with you on the inability of our defense to keep the dribbler in front of them on the perimeter. It has just destroyed us many games. I don't believe it to be a technical issue, but rather we don't have a coach enforcing it from day negative 30 until day one and throughout the season. Steals are great, but if you are getting beat off the dribble repeatedly, it seems to counter the positive of the steal.
I used to watch Rajon Rondo do this, and get praised by the announcers - meanwhile he actually made zero attempt to keep the dribbler from going right by him. Our team has a lot of that type of issue. Hopefully the newly promoted assistant is that guy that can enforce this aspect of the defense.
I completely agree with you on the inability of our defense to keep the dribbler in front of them on the perimeter. It has just destroyed us many games. I don't believe it to be a technical issue, but rather we don't have a coach enforcing it from day negative 30 until day one and throughout the season. Steals are great, but if you are getting beat off the dribble repeatedly, it seems to counter the positive of the steal.
I used to watch Rajon Rondo do this, and get praised by the announcers - meanwhile he actually made zero attempt to keep the dribbler from going right by him. Our team has a lot of that type of issue. Hopefully the newly promoted assistant is that guy that can enforce this aspect of the defense.
I'm not technologically savvy enough to figure out how to do it, but if I were, I'd find and post 15 clips of Grant simply watching people drive right near him or past him, and he doesn't move his feet, or even raise his hands straight up to challenge the shot. I can remember one 3 minute sequence last year when we were playing a team where the opposing player got past our guy baseline, Grant was playing pretty much under the basket but on the foul line side, and the player drove right around him as well for a reverse layup. Grant did not move his feet, did not rotate, and did not challenge the shot. Then there was a deadball, and Matt Grace came in. The same play happened on the other side, except Grace slid over and stopped the baseline drive with his arms straight up. Nothing special, he just made the effort to slide over. The opposing player then had to pass the ball back out to the perimeter. I'm not asking for anything more than I ask of my son's rec basketball team, including the kid who still fires line drives at the backboard as a free throw, and he's able to manage it.
agreed Grant can be better defensively. but he and Matt aren't rim protectors. if we get beat on the perimeter, there will be times when we get beat to the rim. we need to reduce the number of times we get beat on the perimeter too. that will help Grant.
with the longer 3 pointer this year, maybe we don't have to be so aggressive defending shots on the outside. protect against the drive more.
with the longer 3 pointer this year, maybe we don't have to be so aggressive defending shots on the outside. protect against the drive more.
Sounds like Grant shed 20 lbs and got some good work and competition in this summer. Great to hear.
Similar threads
