William and Mary Game thread - Saturday 6pm Robins Center / ESPN+

[Eight Legger]

Well we have another chance against a very mediocre Northern Iowa team - which just lost back to back games to mediocre Belmont and Evansville. Need to win this one and Florida to get the season back on track.

What is going on with UNI? Ever since they gave Jacobsen that big extension, they have been atrocious. Weird situation over there, but yes, a loss in that game would be a huge black eye on this season. Cannot lose there under any circumstances. We need that Florida win badly too. The league is holding its own, so multiple bids are possible. We need to get one.

 

[Eight Legger]

I can't figure out a) how we got King, b) why every team in the nation wasn't banging down his door and c) how in the hell he was wasting away at Siena and ETSU for four years. He's one of the three or four most dynamic players ever had in the last quarter century and on his way to A10 player of the year if he keeps this up.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Beckwith keeps saying it: King is a shotmaker. With even a semblance of an open look, I basically expect every shot he takes to go in at the moment. W&M tried two different zones and he forced them to come play him 30 feet from the hoop. He's also got the microwave element where he feels it and puts up 8-10 points in just a couple minutes.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

I wasn't able to watch this game. It is no secret that for 18-years I have said that Mooney is a below average coach. That is still true, HOWEVER, I give him credit for starting Roche in an attempt to get him out of his funk.

It showed Roche that the coaching staff still had confidence in him, AND it gave Roche the opportunity to just play. Forget about the pressure of forcing the 3 every time you touch the ball because you only play 2-3 minutes at a time.

A good coaching move, and apparently it worked!

 

[PalmTreeSpidUR]

Going back earlier to the questions about why we're playing W&M at all, years ago the reason given was it was a good game to schedule so close to exams for two academically oriented schools. Close geographic distance = no overnight trip = less time away from school/exam preparation at the end of the semester.

I don't know if that is still the reason, but it made sense back then and it makes even more sense now.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I'm in the camp that as long as Dji gets his minutes, I love him as the 6th man. Gives coach the flexibility to sub him at guard or wing, depending on the game flow. He's filling that role perfectly, and is getting starters minutes. So I would keep Roche in the lineup, Dji and Noyes for energy off the bench.

 

[urfan1]

Dji may be our best at attacking the basket, close between he and King.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Tyne had a rough time on defense yesterday as he kept getting posted it up
down low and Tribe left their big man out high who could hit the three consistently, keeping
Quinn and Walz at top of the box. Would have liked a lineup with Bigelow, Noyes, Dji, Roche
and King to see how they would have handled things defensively

 

[SpiderTrap]

I have no issue with playing a few - maybe 2 at most (maybe 3 if you have some really good games elsewhere) on the schedule of teams over 300+ in rankings. Not a bad idea to keep those to local teams as well - like a W&M or VMI. Your schedule will always have some of these - just can't have too many.

Roche in the starting lineup - maybe this is what he needs to get going? Would like to see it continue to see if him starting is a solution to his shooting woes. He seemed a bit more energized, and maybe like myself - he saw himself starting this year and when that didn't happen - he got down on himself. Maybe being in the starting lineup - he is re-energized and ready to take that moment and not let go. Bailey is playing well - and he could make a case to start as well, but we also need that boost from the bench. And he seems to be fitting into that role. I wouldn't worry too much if I was him - if your not starting but still playing 20+ minutes and getting a lot of opportunities - it doesn't matter if you start or not.

I still get confused in games like this - we are up 20+points with about 5-6 minutes left, and we still got main guys playing, especially King. Get them out - especially with injuries already hitting us. And get other guys some minutes. I don't think we are in danger of losing a 20 point lead to W*M.

 

[97spiderfan]

I wasn't able to watch this game. It is no secret that for 18-years I have said that Mooney is a below average coach. That is still true, HOWEVER, I give him credit for starting Roche in an attempt to get him out of his funk.

It showed Roche that the coaching staff still had confidence in him, AND it gave Roche the opportunity to just play. Forget about the pressure of forcing the 3 every time you touch the ball because you only play 2-3 minutes at a time.

A good coaching move, and apparently it worked!

Agreed, Mooney gets credit for changing up the starting line-up and getting Roche in there. That seemed to spark Roche, he got any easy lay-up as our first basket and then he got his shooting groove back.

Also, this team is a really fun watch. They play an up tempo type of game, they play with passion out there, they play defense and Jordan King is an absolute stud. I know it's a small sample size but he is the complete package in a PG. He can score from every level from his unlimited range to his great mid range game and he has a variety of strong finishing moves if he decides to take it the hole. We have run out a ton of great PG's in the Mooney era, I can't recall one with the offensive repertoire that I've seen in Jordan King. Kevin Anderson is still #1 in my book because he was also a great defender and a consistent clutch shot/play maker.

But depending upon where we finish in the A-10, Jordan King is gonna get some look for A-10 player of the year.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

97, great note on pace - I meant to bring that up as well. UR looks great when utilizing the team speed we heard so much about, and really pushing the ball upcourt on offense. Even just a quick push when the other team is back forces them to react - especially when King has the ball - and I think UR can take advantage of those situations. I do feel like when we run the Moonball weave, high post actions, guys can get a little more passive, since it is such a pass-first system, and this is when UR runs into issues.

 

[spiderman]

I felt in the past we'd start the top 5 guys regardless of whether they worked well together. top players should get the most minutes, but don't all have to start. Dji is clearly playing like one of our top players with some sick finishes around the rim Saturday, and he always defends. he's not starting, but he's getting the minutes and things are working. don't change.

I like starting Roche. despite the mini slump, he's a great shooter and he's hustling defensively. Noyes looked better on D this game and he can rebound but I like him off the bench this year. he hasn't earned a bigger role yet. he'll still get plenty of opportunities.

Shaver was mentioned earlier. I said it when it happened ... stupid fire. he's a good coach and was doing well in a tough situation. if they wanted more, there were other moves they could make. but Shaver wasn't the problem.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Did Shaver ever land anywhere else?

 

[SFspidur]

I believe he's enjoying retirement on the beaches of Brunswick County, NC.

 

[Section9.RowD]

I have no issue with playing a few - maybe 2 at most (maybe 3 if you have some really good games elsewhere) on the schedule of teams over 300+ in rankings. Not a bad idea to keep those to local teams as well - like a W&M or VMI. Your schedule will always have some of these - just can't have too many.

Roche in the starting lineup - maybe this is what he needs to get going? Would like to see it continue to see if him starting is a solution to his shooting woes. He seemed a bit more energized, and maybe like myself - he saw himself starting this year and when that didn't happen - he got down on himself. Maybe being in the starting lineup - he is re-energized and ready to take that moment and not let go. Bailey is playing well - and he could make a case to start as well, but we also need that boost from the bench. And he seems to be fitting into that role. I wouldn't worry too much if I was him - if your not starting but still playing 20+ minutes and getting a lot of opportunities - it doesn't matter if you start or not.

I still get confused in games like this - we are up 20+points with about 5-6 minutes left, and we still got main guys playing, especially King. Get them out - especially with injuries already hitting us. And get other guys some minutes. I don't think we are in danger of losing a 20 point lead to W*M.

Rightly or wrongly and while I don’t think directly stated 30 point wins over 20 point wins I do think matter in the NET

 

[SFspidur]

Yes, margin of victory essentially shows up pretty strongly in the offensive and defensive efficiency metrics.

 

[GKiller]

I believe he's enjoying retirement on the beaches of Brunswick County, NC.

Probably. Shaver got close to 2 mil when fired. It had an offset so no reason to coach, but probably wasn't going to get an equivalent job at his age anyway. W&M AD Samantha Huge who was a disaster, thought Shaver contract was expiring and they owed him nothing. But he had auto 1 year extensions in his contract for going over .500 or something along those lines. In reality he had 5 years left. How they missed that is crazy. It's what got Huge fired, not that plagiarism crap that was just a sideshow.

Btw it would not shock me if Mooney had some clause in contract that kicks in extension and we just don't say, instead just announce extension later. Never know with U of R, too top secret.

 

[SpiderTrap]

If UR "competes" this year, automatic extension.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Probably. Shaver got close to 2 mil when fired. It had an offset so no reason to coach, but probably wasn't going to get an equivalent job at his age anyway. W&M AD Samantha Huge who was a disaster, thought Shaver contract was expiring and they owed him nothing. But he had auto 1 year extensions in his contract for going over .500 or something along those lines. In reality he had 5 years left. How they missed that is crazy. It's what got Huge fired, not that plagiarism crap that was just a sideshow.

Btw it would not shock me if Mooney had some clause in contract that kicks in extension and we just don't say, instead just announce extension later. Never know with U of R, too top secret.

wow never knew this, what lunacy to not know that information.

 

[gospidersgo]

I can't figure out a) how we got King, b) why every team in the nation wasn't banging down his door and c) how in the hell he was wasting away at Siena and ETSU for four years. He's one of the three or four most dynamic players ever had in the last quarter century and on his way to A10 player of the year if he keeps this up.

I kind of had the same thoughts.

Without knowing the NIL part, I think it was obvious there were a ton of minutes available at guard this year. And any transfer guard would surely be aware of our (Mooney's) history and success with small guards. So I think we (and the A10 level) are a logical choice for someone like King.

Plus not to be a downer, but we've seen his tendency to have a harder time against higher end competition and larger guards. So I think this was a tailor made situation for someone like him.

But even with all that, he never averaged more than 15 ppg on some pretty subpar teams before coming here. He's taken his game to another level to start this season and it's been fun to watch. If he can find a way to help will us to some sort of magical season he will surely have a place in Spider lore.

 

[Eight Legger]

Roche in the starting lineup - maybe this is what he needs to get going? Would like to see it continue to see if him starting is a solution to his shooting woes. He seemed a bit more energized, and maybe like myself - he saw himself starting this year and when that didn't happen - he got down on himself.

No offense Trap, but I never saw you starting this season. I hope you didn't get TOO down on yourself. Chin up.

 

[spider23]

No offense Trap, but I never saw you starting this season. I hope you didn't get TOO down on yourself. Chin up.

Trap was just talking about our Spidernation game. Don't worry Trap, I'm still considering starting you. Very least you will be 6th man.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Agreed - I was upset I didn't start too. But I have moved on.

Before the season - I thought Roche would be a starter and a key part of our offense providing that "shooter" role while playing 25+ even close to 30 minutes a night.

Its only 1 game, and 1 game against an ideal opponent for him - weak opponent, and they played some zone on us - which forces outside shots. Northern Iowa - probably not a great opponent as they have been inconsistent, but should be tougher defense - which Roche has been struggling this year and end of last year with. But best case scenario - we get another good game from Roche, and his confidence is sky high as we enter a big game with Florida.

My confidence is at all time low because I got left off the starting line-up, but happy to pass on to Roche is he agrees to knock down 4 threes in win against Northern Iowa and then catches fire in Florida as Spiders upset Gators.

 

[spider23]

I was not able to watch the WM game. Interested to hear about Roche's shot selection. Did he take a little more time (i.e. squared up, toward the basket) on his shots? He's a completely different style player than Hunt, but we need someone to step up in his absence.

Will be very interesting to see how we play against UNI and FLA. UNI is not great so far this year, but is a true road game against a decent team - ranked similar to UNLV - but that was neutral. Big opportunity here to get back on track.

 

[97spiderfan]

I was not able to watch the WM game. Interested to hear about Roche's shot selection. Did he take a little more time (i.e. squared up, toward the basket) on his shots? He's a completely different style player than Hunt, but we need someone to step up in his absence.

Will be very interesting to see how we play against UNI and FLA. UNI is not great so far this year, but is a true road game against a decent team - ranked similar to UNLV - but that was neutral. Big opportunity here to get back on track.

Roche got an easy lay-up off a nice assist from Quinn for our first score. I think seeing one go through the bucket really helped him. As the all of his next shots were 3 balls and they were pure.

I think we need a big game from Roche (similar to what he gave us at W&M) 10-14 point range to be successful at Northern Iowa.

Having Roche out there as an offensive weapon means other teams can't just key in on King and Hunt. And if I'm scouting us, Tynne obviously does not scare me, I want him shooting because he does so freely and is not hitting much. I'm also not really scared of Bigelow, I want him taking 3's and if he makes them, than so be it.

 

[spiderman]

Roche got an easy lay-up off a nice assist from Quinn for our first score. I think seeing one go through the bucket really helped him. As the all of his next shots were 3 balls and they were pure.

Beck said that about the layup but I don't buy it. that's wishful thinking. going in with the starters fresh off of shooting in warmups is a bigger factor to me. and just being a really good shooter.

Beck also said that Noyes getting that lucky bounce 3 to go in would break the seal. I thought ... no, a shooter getting a lucky bounce doesn't instill confidence. the shot still didn't go where he wanted it to go. and he missed the next 5.

23, Roche always shoots quickly but I did think he had a little more room in the W&M game and shot with more balance. maybe knowing he'd get more run let him pick his spots better.

 

[97spiderfan]

Beck said that about the layup but I don't buy it. that's wishful thinking. going in with the starters fresh off of shooting in warmups is a bigger factor to me. and just being a really good shooter.

Beck also said that Noyes getting that lucky bounce 3 to go in would break the seal. I thought ... no, a shooter getting a lucky bounce doesn't instill confidence. the shot still didn't go where he wanted it to go. and he missed the next 5.

23, Roche always shoots quickly but I did think he had a little more room in the W&M game and shot with more balance. maybe knowing he'd get more run let him pick his spots better.

To be clear, I think what helped Roche the most was getting the start. It was a clear signal from coach that he had confidence in him and allowed him to get extended run with our best players which resulted in him getting better shot opportunities.

I think he is going to remain the starter for the immediate future. Noyes isn't giving us anything on offense (he is doing some good work rebounding). If Roche's falters, I think our next option is to turn to Dji vs. turning back to Noyes.

I think if Mooney has his druthers though, it would be for Roche to remain our starter for the rest of the year, as I think he likes bringing Dji off the bench and the options that avails him. Dji is a great 6th man because we can plug him in multiple positions in our defense and offensive sets. He also gives our offense a different look because his best game is the ability to drive and finish.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I was not able to watch the WM game. Interested to hear about Roche's shot selection. Did he take a little more time (i.e. squared up, toward the basket) on his shots? He's a completely different style player than Hunt, but we need someone to step up in his absence.

Will be very interesting to see how we play against UNI and FLA. UNI is not great so far this year, but is a true road game against a decent team - ranked similar to UNLV - but that was neutral. Big opportunity here to get back on track.

Good layup to start the game.

Other shots were pretty normal, but not as contested (more open looks) than he is used to against better competition.

He will be on the scouting report for NI coming up, so I expect them to run him off the 3 point line.

 

[spider23]

Thanks for the feedback.

And I do like Dji as the 6th man. He is very versatile, so I think the ability to plug him in for whoever needs it is the best scenario. Also has shown himself to be very adaptable to the role, in that he comes in and hits the ground running and contributes, without forcing things.

 

[spider23]

And Florida should be a winnable game. Even though in Florida, it is at a neutral site, doubt this will be a big racous crowd, they will not have site lines advantage, and they are 4-3 without any huge top 25 type wins.

 

[urmite]

And Florida should be a winnable game. Even though in Florida, it is at a neutral site, doubt this will be a big racous crowd, they will not have site lines advantage, and they are 4-3 without any huge top 25 type wins.

Their 2 weaknesses appear to be they let teams steal the ball, and they let teams make threes…

 

[Section9.RowD]

And Florida should be a winnable game. Even though in Florida, it is at a neutral site, doubt this will be a big racous crowd, they will not have site lines advantage, and they are 4-3 without any huge top 25 type wins.

I will be joining a few of my loud mid 90s Spider friends in Sunrise and we will work hard to at least make it a neutral crowd …

 

[RichmondNative]

I will be joining a few of my loud mid 90s Spider friends in Sunrise and we will work hard to at least make it a neutral crowd …

I am confident we will hear you.

 

[Section9.RowD]

I am confident we will hear you.

Yah I wasn’t able to make the Daytona games this year but a few of my group were doing their thing right behind the bench and weren’t too happy with the absurd Colorado refs

 

[GKiller]

I will be joining a few of my loud mid 90s Spider friends in Sunrise and we will work hard to at least make it a neutral crowd …

Think I’ve mentioned on board b4 but I went in 2009 to Florida game in Sunrise. Fun as hell road trip. The winning helped. We sat like 1st or 2nd row. Had buddy w hookup who worked for MetroPCS who sponsored the game. Ran into team at Ft Lauderdale airport next day too. No charter then but I think school had hit break. Not sure where u r staying we stayed in Hollywood by the Ocean. So maybe 20-30 mins drive away. But the Seminole hard rock casino is nearby & was on way to arena so that might be closer 4 u. If u r close to beaches in Hollywood etc let me make 1 recommendation - go to this hole in the wall burger place called Le Tub. Right on the waterway on Ocean Drive. Well worth it. & look for the dudes in the Orange Bowl blazers at the game. Enjoy!