What's wrong???

[SpiderTrap]

Everyone is obviously upset with the results this year, but I wanted to take a step back and see if people could provide their thoughts on what has gone wrong this season. Because I think most people on this board, myself included - thought we had a good team to begin the year, especially with our 3 transfers coming in with Roche, Quinn, and Bigelow. And with the A10 being significantly down this year - that maybe this was a year we reload and not rebuild. Not saying we were an NCAA lock, but possibly an NIT team and maybe if get lucky - NCAA bubble team. But we are from both of those right now and just wondering what people think has gone wrong this year to make this team slide the way it has.

SO what has gone wrong this year?

 

[Spiders4ever]

Gilyard, Golden, Cayo graduated.

 

[SpiderAlways]

Mooney system with only one marginal shooter. Defense very inconsistent, chases way too often. Timeouts that kill our momentum not the opponents. So, it's the system or.... well, you know

 

[spiderman]

Gilyard, Golden, Cayo graduated.

mostly this. we graduated players with 7,000 career points. the guys filling those spots aren't at the same level. we're not dramatically worse. we're a little worse. but we were a 6th place team with them.

 

[Section9.RowD]

My sad thoughts and I realize I had overly high expectations ..

Mooney - below my expectations .. no other comments needed

Quinn - below my expectations - Patriot league seems to be like high school compared to the A10
Bigelow - meeting or above my expectations
Dji - meeting my expectations since he has entered the starting lineup
Grace - meeting my expectations
Roche - meeting my expectations but more inconsistent that I expected in getting 3pt attempts and in minutes.
Burton - not meeting my expectations even though he is 2nd in the league in scoring (he just has to do too much - last night he basically was our PG for a while)
Gus - not meeting my expectations - expected him to build off of A10 excellence and make smart decisions consistently on the court
Marcus - meeting or above my expectations
Nelson - not meeting my expectations but I think all of us forgot to realize the challenges that most freshmen PG face since Gilly didn't have them especially for someone due to COVID and redshirt year hadn't played competitive bball since he was 18

Walz - above my expectations but hasn't played enough
Noyes - fully expected him to get some playing time

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Question: what is our FT rate? FTs are easy points (most of the time) and getting to the line when you have a team of non-shooters seems obvious, but I haven't looked at data. It feels like the UR offense is relatively below average at getting to the line but I don't know offhand.

Moon thrives off of PG play bailing him out. Whereas I previously posted about this team reminding me of the .500 team after the b2b NCAAs, it now seems more like Moon's first year. Lots of forwards/bigs who had talent and track records (Steenberge, Bucknor, Moliva), no consistency from guards (that first team had Sylla and Thomas playing guard, right? Oof.). A square peg, round hole team if ever there was one.

Endgame issues seem particularly pronounced this year though. So if I'm picking points of what's wrong: PG play and endgame coaching/play.

 

[spider23]

Good list section 9.

As usual, Mooney cannot adjust. I know 4700 likes to break it down to: we need good PG play, and Nelson has struggled, so not Mooney's fault.

WRONG. Mooney has not protected him and put him in spots to succeed. IMO he threw him out there this season, to season him for 30+ mins/game - so in a year or two he can turn into Kevin Anderson. Nelson has looked pretty damn good early in the season - at times. But, when he hit some struggles, moon kept throwing him out there. I think we should have started the season with more of a 1:1 split with Nelson and Dji, or Nelson : Dji/Goose.

Grace/Quinn pairing. Some of us, said this was not a good idea. Two skilled players with some really good traits as college basketball players. Both under or very under average athleticism for the A10. You cannot pair together as was the case.

Goose: Mooney should have sat him down start of season, and said - you have the opportunity to be the man - within the offense I want you taking 12 shots per game, and being aggressive. I don't care if you miss.

Bigs: Love me some bigs, he could play for me any day. His shooting has gone south this season. Again, this is a guy that I see being a star with a better coach than mooney or the guy at wofford. Great pick up by Mooney, but poor coaching. 80+ FT shooter, used to shoot 3s well. Put him in position and train him to make them. Watched JB working guys out in the RC once. Guarantee Bigs is all league with JB. just like Jarod Stevenson transformation.

I could go on, but the coaching has failed.

 

[SpiderK]

mostly this. we graduated players with 7,000 career points. the guys filling those spots aren't at the same level. we're not dramatically worse. we're a little worse. but we were a 6th place team with them.

Gilyard was the HUGE loss. Cayo, Sherod and Golden were 90% replaced.

 

[Eight Legger]

Spare me how we lost all those guys. St. Bonaventure lost LITERALLY EVERYONE ON THE TEAM and swept us, won at VCU and is a few spots ahead of us in the standings. I don't hear Schmidt making any excuses about losing three starters to Iowa State and Florida. He just reloaded and continued to kick ass.

Here at Richmond, though, at the first sign of any problems, we start cranking out the excuses. "We lost 1,000-point scorers," "it takes awhile to learn our systems," "we had some injuries." I'm tired of it.

The problems are that our scheme is not effective in this era of college basketball, when you need to be prepared to WIN GAMES every year, often with an entirely new team. The scheme also does not put offensive players in strong positions to score nearly enough. AND the over-playing scheme on defense routinely leaves one or two guys on the other team WIDE OPEN for three-pointers.

On top of all of that, this team (as with most coached by Mooney) is too soft. It's bad when the players themselves are saying as much to the media, but here we are. You reap what you sow.

 

[SpiderK]

No leadership on the floor or on the bench. We lose every close game where leadership is required.

 

[GKiller]

Rob Jones went to Liberty

 

[spiderman]

Grace/Quinn pairing. Some of us, said this was not a good idea. Two skilled players with some really good traits as college basketball players. Both under or very under average athleticism for the A10. You cannot pair together as was the case.

yeah, while we have a size advantage when playing both, we weren't using that advantage early on. we do seem to be going inside more lately. but Grace, who's very effective inside, often goes games like last night where he plays 34 minutes and takes 3 two-pointers all game. they aren't bad defenders despite limited athleticism, but something's missing.

yesterday was another game where I felt we took bad shots. sometimes it's because we're late in the clock. I blame that on not having a go-to who could get a good late shot. we had that in Cayo, Golden and Gilyard.

last night I felt the bad shots were early in the clock. 17 footers, fade away jumpers, quick 3 pointers.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Our end of game minutes and strategies are weak, killing us, and the pattern repeats just on different nights with different opponents.

CM - Try something differently. It can’t be any worse than status quo.

 

[97spiderfan]

Is this a real question? If so the real answer is Chris Mooney.

 

[SpiderTrap]

We lost guys - yes. But we reloaded, or so we thought. I think two big issues this year have been Quinn has not been as good as we thought, and Roche - although the best shooter we have had in a while has struggled to get shots and actually make shots lately (only shooting 30% in A10 play).

Quinn in about every game gives you a great 3-4 minute stretch, where he scores like 6 points and you think to yourself - here we go, Neal is going to have a huge game. Then he finishes the game with 8 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists in 19 minutes. Not bad - but we need more from him in order to "reload". Roche - is it minutes that limits his shots or is he simply not able to get his shot off yet at this level? Either way - he got off to a hot start in OOC play, but in A10 play - he has cooled off, and we need him to catch fire and support Burton offensively. And with him shooting 30% and just getting I think 5-6 points a night in A10 games - that doesn't help.

I am not trying to pick on these two specifically. I think or hope this is a growing pain as they get acclimated because I think both have the chance to be very good players for UR, but I think the majority on this board would say they have underachieved this year based on expectations when they transferred in.

 

[ManiBenton]

Whats wrong is the fact Mooney can't get bailed out by Golden, Cayo or Gilyard anymore. Still has Burton though and look what he's doing with him! Feel so bad for Burton, should've went to a P5 school with an actual coach.

 

[I-M-UR]

Soft soft soft. When we need a score, a stop, a rebound nobody steps up. It’s Mooney’s lack of pushing players, conditioning players, to deal with stress. For instance he tells an announcer at one game he doesn’t make the players work on shooting, drills etc, he just lets them scrimmage? That’s idiotic. He wants all fun no work.

 

[I-M-UR]

I remember talking to Bill Fry, etc you mention Tarrant…they roll their eyes, say he was tough. They respected him but he was not their friend,is the impression I got. My bet is Mooney wants to be liked. Their friend, etc. a coach’s job is to push you to be better than you think you can. Mooney doesn’t do that.

All opinion I certainly don’t know but that’s my impression

When the tough get going we fold.

 

[spider fan]

Tarrant as coach was a no nonsense keep focused on the goal U.S. Marine. He was precise and to the point and his expectations did not allow deviation. A natural leader he commanded respect. Suffice it to say Mooney is different.

 

[RichmondNative]

The issue is I expected Mooney to be able to leverage last year’s success (those remaining want to get to dance again) and adapt to the shifting college landscape. For me it all started with the 3 portal acquisitions. It seemed like Mooney knew what he needed and landed those players with multiple years of eligibility. Since he didn’t target a PG, I figured that he had to have felt he had what he needed at that spot. I expected that the team would have a rough OOC slate, but would improve as the season progressed and play much better in a weak A10. Instead we were treated to a team without an identity and marginal development.

I am glad Tyler Burton played for Richmond and came back for his senior year, but he sure hasn’t helped his NBA draft stock. I haven’t seen any improvements in his game, only weaknesses. From a stats book perspective he looks pretty good, so I guess he hopes no one watches the tapes. CM’s system doesn’t leverage Tyler’s strengths and to add insult to injury Tyler gets to play 40 min per game so he has nothing left at the end. You can see this at the line where he consistently makes 1 of 2 at crunch time.

I guess the good news is this year’s team did not finish 6th or better in conference and upstage last year’s class. I really thought they had a shot. Silly me.

 

[KE Spider]

Is this a real question? If so the real answer is Chris Mooney.

Amen!

Players come. Players go. What has been the constant for nearly 18 years of 55% basketball?

Chronic underachievement, even in recent years, absent a fabulous 10 day run last spring. Baffled by folks that still defend his performance. Very good man. Very average coach. Richmond deserves better.

Take your blood pressure meds. He's gonna keep doing what he has been doing for another 4 years. Winnable games will keep slipping away, unfathomable coaching decisions made, and 55, like the speed limit, will be the rule. Our University community deserves so much more from our signature sport.

 

[spiderman]

I am glad Tyler Burton played for Richmond and came back for his senior year, but he sure hasn’t helped his NBA draft stock. I haven’t seen any improvements in his game, only weaknesses.

Tyler was always athletic and could drive and dunk, but his driving and finishing is greatly improved this year. I also think his defense is much improved. and his leadership. he's a better player from coming back.

but his handle still isn't where it would need to be, and most importantly his shooting has taken a drastic turn for the worse. he needed a year up around 40% from 3 to get his big chance. as has been said, it's tough as the clear #1 focus for a defense.

 

[fatherspider]

Spare me how we lost all those guys. St. Bonaventure lost LITERALLY EVERYONE ON THE TEAM and swept us, won at VCU and is a few spots ahead of us in the standings. I don't hear Schmidt making any excuses about losing three starters to Iowa State and Florida. He just reloaded and continued to kick ass.

Here at Richmond, though, at the first sign of any problems, we start cranking out the excuses. "We lost 1,000-point scorers," "it takes awhile to learn our systems," "we had some injuries." I'm tired of it.

The problems are that our scheme is not effective in this era of college basketball, when you need to be prepared to WIN GAMES every year, often with an entirely new team. The scheme also does not put offensive players in strong positions to score nearly enough. AND the over-playing scheme on defense routinely leaves one or two guys on the other team WIDE OPEN for three-pointers.

On top of all of that, this team (as with most coached by Mooney) is too soft. It's bad when the players themselves are saying as much to the media, but here we are. You reap what you sow.

Agree and even with those guys, without the one improbable, magical run, their years at UR would have been a monumental failure.
CM might be the luckiest, most blessed bastard on earth. He somehow survives 10 years wo an NCAA appearance and then when he is dead in the water, he is pulled from the quicksand. Man, he was at the crossroads and made a deal.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Burton has hurt his stock. To the point where I would worry now, does he stick around for 1 more year but use it somewhere else???

 

[ManiBenton]

Spare me how we lost all those guys. St. Bonaventure lost LITERALLY EVERYONE ON THE TEAM and swept us, won at VCU and is a few spots ahead of us in the standings. I don't hear Schmidt making any excuses about losing three starters to Iowa State and Florida. He just reloaded and continued to kick ass.

Here at Richmond, though, at the first sign of any problems, we start cranking out the excuses. "We lost 1,000-point scorers," "it takes awhile to learn our systems," "we had some injuries." I'm tired of it.

The problems are that our scheme is not effective in this era of college basketball, when you need to be prepared to WIN GAMES every year, often with an entirely new team. The scheme also does not put offensive players in strong positions to score nearly enough. AND the over-playing scheme on defense routinely leaves one or two guys on the other team WIDE OPEN for three-pointers.

On top of all of that, this team (as with most coached by Mooney) is too soft. It's bad when the players themselves are saying as much to the media, but here we are. You reap what you sow.

This the difference between a good coach and a bad one

 

[ManiBenton]

Burton has hurt his stock. To the point where I would worry now, does he stick around for 1 more year but use it somewhere else???

I'd question his sanity if he came back here and play for Mooney for another year.

 

[8legs1dream]

Tarrant as coach was a no nonsense keep focused on the goal U.S. Marine. He was precise and to the point and his expectations did not allow deviation. A natural leader he commanded respect. Suffice it to say Mooney is different.

You just described the exact opposite of Moon

 

[MrTbone]

Here’s what I see:
1. Two decent bigs that often aren’t great as a combo
2. Burton as promised but carrying team is too much for any one guy
3. Way too much passivity after Burton to score
4. Not enough Roche which is utterly perplexing
5. Prob should have done more split time on PG (this is debatable but it was a weird choice to load so much on JayNel)

 

[UR79&Peanuts]

With the right coach this team and its talent we should be at the top of the Atlantic 10 and top 25. Oh so much talent ruined and wasted. All turned into Mooney Robots

 

[Eight Legger]

There's certainly more than enough talent here to not be 10th in the worst year the A10 has had since we joined the league. The new excuse seems to be that we lost all our assistant coaches in the summer. All I know is that losers make excuses and winners make progress.

 

[Spider B]

UR administration doesn't care about winning. And unfortunately thats why I really dont either. Keeping any coach around for 18 years with CMs record is absurd. But if all you care about is a clean program and 4 sellouts a year by giving away tickets, then CM is a perfect fit. And that's what we have.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Mooney teams are best when we have a top flight PG and top tier big man to go with it. This year -we have neither. Quinn looks good for 4 minutes a night. Nelson showed flashes, but instead of getting better it seems he has regressed a bit as the season has gone on - and our best player is Burton, a wing player with okay dribbling skills. So this is not a terrible team by any means - we have good pieces, but they are not fitting together. And result is likely a .500 or sub .500 record.

 

[spiderman]

With the right coach this team and its talent we should be at the top of the Atlantic 10 and top 25. Oh so much talent ruined and wasted. All turned into Mooney Robots

lol, not sure if you're being serious here.
better coaching, better rotations, and more growth from the PGs would all help.
but I don't know what games outside of ours you're watching if you think we've got top of the A10 and top 25 talent.
you must think Mooney is a master recruiter or player developer. I like our roater but that's crazy talk.

 

[spider23]

No, we know you are a long time Spiders fan 79, don't let the mooney lovers call you crazy. This particular one thinks Mooney is a great recruiter, yet we are a bottom level team?

I happen to be with you, with a good coach, guys like Roche, Bigelow, and Burton would be really really good in the A10 this year.

 

[spider23]

and I will give sman credit, he is the only mooney lover that did not scurry like rats when the season keeps tanking.

 

[spider23]

And yes, without looking at recruiting rankings, guessing we have guys that were once thought comparable to those recruited at St. Mary's, Charleston, Florida Atlantic U. All teams that have been in the top 25 this season. One of which we were up by 5 in the last minutes. But you know, coaching matters.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

The answer to your question is VERY simple. Mooney is the coach!

Mooney's career .550 winning percentage tells us all that we need to know. He can barely win 1-2 games at a school that provides well above average opportunities. Often repeated, but true, UR has a great basketball tradition, pays their coach really well, provides a terrific arena, invests in upgrades (like the practice facility), and has fans who come to games and support the team.

There is NO REASON why a decent coach shouldn't be winning big at Richmond! Tarrant & Beilein proved the hypothesis in the recent past. If Mooney were at a program with lesser benefits, I am willing to bet that he wouldn't win more than 30-40 % of his games. Of course, that skill level gets a coach fired in 2-3 years.

If you seek a more definitive explanation to your question, there are many technical reasons why Mooney is a low average coach. Some examples include:

1) Well below average bench coaching skill. He is one of the worst at this that I have ever seen. I grew up learning from Adolph Rupp, Denny Crum, Bobby Knight, Digger Phelps, and Rick Pitino. Mooney isn't even near the same ballpark, and he has proven it time-and-again. The data (specifically losing so many close games that could of, or should have been wins) over 18-seasons is proof that the problem isn't a coincidence, bad players, or bad luck
2) Well below average ability to manage personnel. Mooney has a LONG history of teams in disarray because he can't figure out which players should be on the floor together. The evidence (multiple occurrences over multiple years) is extensive. This year, his playing combinations involving Nelson, Quinn, Roche, Grace, Bigelow, Bailey, and Noyes have helped to create the bumpy road. Mooney frequently doesn't use the right personnel at the right time. Again, a LONG term problem, this year isn't the first that this has been a significant team issue
3) Rigid and risk averse. Ample evidence shows that Mooney most often makes decisions based upon long-held historical beliefs. This includes his use of timeouts, and his choice of offense and defensive schemes. He repetitively pounds the square peg into the round hole. He is not good at adaptation, he prefers to do it his chosen way whether it is working or not. He is not good at making decisions on the fly (changes dependent upon evolving circumstances). Again, repetitive examples over the course of many years

There is much other evidence, but, these are the most flagrant in my opinion. So, the answer to your question is simple; Mooney is the coach.

 

[8legs1dream]

No, we know you are a long time Spiders fan 79, don't let the mooney lovers call you crazy. This particular one thinks Mooney is a great recruiter, yet we are a bottom level team?

I happen to be with you, with a good coach, guys like Roche, Bigelow, and Burton would be really really good in the A10 this year.

I could see so many of our guys absolutely KILLING IT on teams with a more competent coach. A big part of me feels bad for them in that respect.

 

[spider23]

I could see so many of our guys absolutely KILLING IT on teams with a more competent coach. A big part of me feels bad for them in that respect.

I feel bad. They are left to bear the burden of being bad, with a coach that deflects blame. No, he does not throw them under the bus. But "we got good looks". It is too bad.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

and I will give sman credit, he is the only mooney lover that did not scurry like rats when the season keeps tanking.

I'm gonna give sman credit for being a positive poster - the type of positive poster 4700 thinks HE is, but is horribly wrong in his self-assessment - who just happens to look at things in an overly rosy fashion (until recently.) Yes, he thinks our recruits look good or better than they are more often than not, but I think we all put a little extra on our guys' upsides in hopes they will be all timers. Unfortunately, we have a coach who runs systems that often do not maximize potential.

So I wouldn't call sman an ardent Moon supporter, as much as a program supporter who just puts too much trust into what the HC does and says. He's been here a long time (as have I and others, 20-something years now since this board started following the 1st iteration of rivals and then the weird Athlon board) so cut him some slack. He's a good fan.