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sorry K but "revenue sports" on our level is kind of a joke. football is a huge loser, just from dollars and cents as opposed to extra giving and basketball does better since our conference does better and we share in that purse but still not that much better. our athletic dept cannot be run, heck, those two sports, cannot run, on the revenue produced, helps defray "some" costs but that is about it.
I guess "brand name" recognition has some value, if you win every now and then. Not sure we get much for FCS football, but winning an NCAA BB tourney game is huge.
 
If past success was the best indicator of future performance it would be hard to find a better candidate than Mooney. Since 2011 there have only been 2 coaches from conferences below the A10 who have made the sweet 16. One of them now coaches at USC, the other is Steve Fisher of San Diego State. In terms of progressing in the tournament Mooney has had more past success than literally anyone we could conceivably hire.

And wins at one school do not necessarily translate to wins at the next school. Wainwright had tons of wins before coming to Richmond, then had fewer wins here, then completely bottomed out at DePaul. Pecora had tons of wins at Hofstra then sucked at Fordham. There are tons of examples of coaches floundering on new teams.

Since you mentioned past sweet 16s, here is something I have been wondering...

What are 10 worst KenPom ratings/rankings of teams that made the sweet 16 starting in 2000-2001? How often has our KenPom Rating/Ranking been better than the best of those 10?
 
Question I have is are we (fans, Administration) OK with being a program that makes the NCAAs once every 5 or 6 years? Or is the intent of moving up in conference, paying top dollar for a coach, investing in the program through a major arena renovation, charters to games, etc to be a program that aspires to be more than that?

We're on the verge of having 2 recruiting classes with 2 all-conference caliber players leading them (K0s & Terry's) not sniff the NCAAs.
 
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Question I have is are we (fans, Administration) OK with being a program that makes the NCAAs once every 5 or 6 years? Or is the intent of moving up in conference, paying top dollar for a coach, investing in the program through a major arena renovation, charters to games, etc to be a program that aspires to be more than that?

We're on the verge of having 2 recruiting classes with 2 all-conference caliber players leading them (K0s & Terry's) not sniff the NCAAs.

We really don't pay top dollar for our coach anymore, we are pretty much in line with the median A10 coaching salary of ~$1 million.
 
Question I have is are we (fans, Administration) OK with being a program that makes the NCAAs once every 5 or 6 years? Or is the intent of moving up in conference, paying top dollar for a coach, investing in the program through a major arena renovation, charters to games, etc to be a program that aspires to be more than that?

We're on the verge of having 2 recruiting classes with 2 all-conference caliber players leading them (K0s & Terry's) not sniff the NCAAs.

This is definitely the question that many of us are asking, over, and over, and over again.


We really don't pay top dollar for our coach anymore, we are pretty much in line with the median A10 coaching salary of ~$1 million.

I think this is well off the mark. A number of times Mooney has been cited as the highest earning coach in the A-10. $1.3M is quite a bit different than "the median A10 salary of ~$1M." At least 30% more, in fact, if that is indeed the median salary!

In fact....

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/

Just listing Shaka (last year), plus McKillop, plus Archie Miller, we can see that Shaka was at ~1.6M, Archie is under $700k, and McKillop is under $400k. Your statement is way off the mark.

Let's keep this going... Will Wade is making $1M annually.

http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/basketball/article_78f0fa80-ef40-11e4-9b7f-ab12564d7782.html

In 2014, Phil Martelli made $902k, Derek Kellogg made $843K with a max bonus of $175k. Interesting to note in the following link is that Archie's salary was doubled from 2014 to 2015, ostensibly as a result of his success in 2014. Also, nothing is listed for GW or for St. Louis.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...basketball-coaches-salaries-database/7214659/

Mark Schmidt makes ~$600k (this is anecdotal, but given the contract extension his signed in 2012, after winning the A-10, it's a reasonable statement, I would think).

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/spo...cle_34b7a32a-b622-11e4-8bb1-2311574353fc.html

Mike Lonergan makes a hair over $600k according to the GW Form 990.

http://207.153.189.83/EINS/530196584/530196584_2013_0b9464cf.PDF

In 2012 Jim Ferry made $470k.

https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/2014_07_EO/25-1035663_990_201306.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAI7C6X5GT42DHYZIA/20160201/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20160201T182059Z&X-Amz-Expires=1800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=bf16a466cb799d6b019a7d82a76dd1a989ce66a97869731a88c79672a15d90a4

Danny Hurley is going to get a bump to $1M/year for 2017-2018. In the meantime he made $630k in 2014-2015.

http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150401/SPORTS/150409924

Before he was fired, Tom Pecora was up almost to $750k. I imagine Neubauer is a bit below that. Probably around $500k, if I had to guess.

http://207.153.189.83/EINS/131740451/131740451_2013_0b9355e6.PDF

Jim Crews is around $850k, barely squeaking in on the highest paid employee list at SLU (surprising!).

http://pdfs.citizenaudit.org/2015_07_EO/43-0654872_990_201406.pdf

Dave Paulsen is making $700k/year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...bbdad0-2d66-11e5-960f-22c4ba982ed4_story.html

Finally, Dr. John Giannini is making about $760k/year.

https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/201...699ffb0008c15f517a20111a6216a21d8b0828b53afe8
 
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In summary, the only coach apart from Mooney currently making $1M is Will Wade. Value-wise, we are not getting much bang for our buck. I would argue that a number of schools are not getting bang for their buck, either.
 
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@KWeaver Mooney doesn't make $1.3 million, he makes $1.1 million. (http://www.thecollegianur.com/article/2015/09/university-of-richmonds-form-990-explained) At one point this was very high for the A10, as it should have been coming off back-to-back NCAA appearances and a sweet 16. However it is no longer particularly high for the A10, though I will concede it is most likely above the median.

Here is an article that was posted on the A10 board, it was written in April of last year. It is a much more recent source than many of the links you posted and it says that there are 8 coaches in the A10 making over $1 million a year.

http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150401/SPORTS/150409924

We can look at the contracts for state employees directly, and we see that including incentives the contracts for the coaches at the state schools pay...

Wade: $1.0 - $1.7 million *a lot of money for a first year coach (
http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/basketball/article_78f0fa80-ef40-11e4-9b7f-ab12564d7782.html)
Kellog: $1.0 - $1.5 million *a lot of money for a 1-7 team (http://commonwealthmagazine.org/back-story/dissecting-umass-coachs-bonus-laden-salary/)
Hurley: $1.0 - $1.2 million *he hasn't even made the NCAAs yet!!! (http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150401/SPORTS/150409924)

I am told by Dayton fans that Archie's contract is currently in the $1.5-$2.0 million range. I am not sure if this is true, but I am 95% sure that he is currently the most highly paid coach in the A10.

These four and Mooney make 5 of the coaches pulling in over $1 million a year. I assume Phil Martelli is one of them as well, he signed a contract extension this past offseason that should have bumped his salary up to or above $1 million. Perhaps Lonergan is making over $1 million as well, he signed an extension in the 2014 offseason after making the NCAAs as a seed.
 
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In summary, the only coach apart from Mooney currently making $1M is Will Wade. Value-wise, we are not getting much bang for our buck. I would argue that a number of schools are not getting bang for their buck, either.
Bingo.

I'd think many of us would be far more concerned about the return on investment for U of R than absolute salary or package. I'm just not seeing ROI. My criteria is conference championships & NCAA appearnaces as a starting point, and then go from there to other factors. If someone's criteria is nice guy, graduation rates, etc. (things that don't get a team to dance) then maybe these someones view ROI as favorable.

Also, I don't really care about the $ and success of other teams & coaches. We have enough to concern ourselves with our team.
 
Weaver, you should know by now there is no place for facts on this board!

I agree. Unfortunately, it seems to be true on both sides of every disagreement on this board. That makes for some very frustrating reading...
 
I'm currently coding "SpiderBytes 1.0" which will spit out unvalidated factoids and repetitive claims that Player <input> is "awesome/horrendous" at <offensive/defensive datastore>.

It's going to make the reading on here much more predictable and digestible urmite, just give me a couple of days to get the beta release out.
 
We really don't pay top dollar for our coach anymore, we are pretty much in line with the median A10 coaching salary of ~$1 million.
The same argument everytime...$1.3 m is a very attractive salaray for a coach not currently in a p5 program. Gregg marshall was paid 800k when he got to wichita st two years after we hired mooney.
 
@KWeaver Mooney doesn't make $1.3 million, he makes $1.1 million. (http://www.thecollegianur.com/article/2015/09/university-of-richmonds-form-990-explained) At one point this was very high for the A10, as it should have been coming off back-to-back NCAA appearances and a sweet 16. However it is no longer particularly high for the A10, though I will concede it is most likely above the median.

Here is an article that was posted on the A10 board, it was written in April of last year. It is a much more recent source than many of the links you posted and it says that there are 8 coaches in the A10 making over $1 million a year.

http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150401/SPORTS/150409924

We can look at the contracts for state employees directly, and we see that including incentives the contracts for the coaches at the state schools pay...

Wade: $1.0 - $1.7 million *a lot of money for a first year coach (
http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/basketball/article_78f0fa80-ef40-11e4-9b7f-ab12564d7782.html)
Kellog: $1.0 - $1.5 million *a lot of money for a 1-7 team (http://commonwealthmagazine.org/back-story/dissecting-umass-coachs-bonus-laden-salary/)
Hurley: $1.0 - $1.2 million *he hasn't even made the NCAAs yet!!! (http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150401/SPORTS/150409924)

I am told by Dayton fans that Archie's contract is currently in the $1.5-$2.0 million range. I am not sure if this is true, but I am 95% sure that he is currently the most highly paid coach in the A10.

These four and Mooney make 5 of the coaches pulling in over $1 million a year. I assume Phil Martelli is one of them as well, he signed a contract extension this past offseason that should have bumped his salary up to or above $1 million. Perhaps Lonergan is making over $1 million as well, he signed an extension in the 2014 offseason after making the NCAAs as a seed.

I cited the same article you did (for Hurley's contract), and I don't know where they got their information. Anyway, there is a lot of information out there, but I feel fairly confident that we have one of, if not THE highest paid coach in the league at this time, and I still don't feel that the value is good.

All of the 990s I posted are supposed to list all of the income that they get. Booster clubs are supposed to show up there, too, to some degree. I can say that I am quite familiar with filling out 990s, as that is a significant part of my job (fun, right?). I can say that since I don't have a booster club for my non-profit, I don't much have to worry about that. But, I am pretty curious about where that Providence guy got his numbers for anyone outside of Hurley. Hurley's contract is the only one I am worried about in that article. The others are not backed up by anything concrete. When I am in doubt, I go to the private school's 990.
 
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How many of those guys have 10 year contracts too, like Mooney? That is 1.1 million per year for 10 years. And that is not counting incentives/perks he has for meeting certain expectations. As well as the money he is given to hire staff. The Providence article said Hurley got $400,000 for his staff. Pretty sure given the number of suits on that bench that Mooney has a bigger pool of money to play with to hire and compensate his staff.
 
KWeaver, I know nothing about 990s or accounting or finance. Perhaps you or someone else on the board could help explain something to me. Why is over 25% of Mooney's salary deferred compensation? In 2011-2012 he only made ~$850k non-deferred salary and ~$300k deferred compensation. Every other A10 coach I could find gets less than 4% of their salary from deferred compensation. What is this deferred compensation?

Now as I said before I know nothing about this stuff, so what follows is pure speculation. Is this deferred compensation where the signing bonus would go if it is payed over the course of multiple years? If Mooney has a clause in his contract that grants him a percentage or flat amount of any NCAA unit revenue, is this where it would go?

Mooney won 4 NCAA units for Richmond in 2010 and 2011. Each unit pays ~$250k a year for 6 years, the A10 keeps 25% to distribute to all schools and Richmond keeps 75%. That means every year from 2012 to this year we get ~$750k from our appearances in the 2010 and 2011 NCAA tournaments. Next year this falls to ~$560k, then to $0 if we don't make the NCAAs again. Does ~1/3 of this go into Mooney's deferred compensation?

Am I way off base here? Could this deferred compensation be due to signing bonus/NCAA unit money and could Mooney lose most of this portion of his salary in the coming years if he doesn't get us back to the NCAAs? This would put his compensation ~$850k if fails to make the NCAAs again soon.

Also, while writing this I started to wonder how Mooney would compare to other A10 coaches with their salaries offset by NCAA unit winnings. I might run some calculations and see how he stacks up.
 
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I heard Mooney stepping all over his tongue tonight when Bob Black asked him an "Email" question about the progress of depth on the bench. The answer was almost incoherent on the radio.
 
I don't think this is 990 specific, to be honest with you. I have no clue why his contract would be structured that way. I mean, I have plenty of ideas why it would be, but specifically why it's set up that way, I am not sure. Perhaps he and Bobby Bonilla share the same agent?

Anyway, I have no idea if it's tied to NCAA earnings. My suspicion is that it isn't, particularly because of the way the extension has been reported over the years. But, I suppose it could be. Unlike public schools, the specifics of this contract can only go public if either party allows it to go public.
 
Deferred comp often is a way to allow the principal to generate earnings and defer tax obligations on those investment earnings until the comp is paid out. Often times there is an attractive guaranteed rate of return on the principal. The employee could also choose a riskier asset class And the return that goes with it. Wouldn't be surprised if the money is sitting with spider management which has history of stellar long term returns. No idea how his Deferred comp plan is structured but suspect it is at least similar to this outline.
 
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Deferred comp often is a way to allow the principal to generate earnings and defer tax obligations on those investment earnings until the comp is paid out. Often times there is an attractive guaranteed rate of return on the principal. The employee could also choose a riskier asset class And the return that goes with it. Wouldn't be surprised if the money is sitting with spider management which has history of stellar long term returns. No idea how his Deferred comp plan is structured but suspect it is at least similar to this outline.
I concur as the most likely of a myriad of possibilities.
 
The amount of comp is one issue the 10 year part is what is over the top.

PS football has an endowment that a lot of us contributed to and Robins matched
 
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