We have all seen the offense sputter to a halt at times because our scorers are getting doubled and covered aggressively while td and DT are left open without a thought of shooting, so I disagree. D is horrid too but we lost st joes game because there was a six minute time frame where we didn't score when game was on the line. Each time Allen or Tj got ball low they were triple covered and had tough shots which they missed. Passing to open td or DT would have no point.
What changes would you make?
- Thread starter sdspider
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Wood was playing during the stretch you mentioned (all he did was send St. Joes to the line and miss a three), not sure about KF. The scoring drought was ironically broken by taking Wood out and putting Deion in, quickly followed by Deion scoring.
We lost to Saint Joes because we let them hit 11 threes making over 50% of their attempts. Our offensive performance that game, shooting 53% from 2pt range and 35% from 3pt range (44% if you take out Wood's 0-5), should win the majority of games if you play decent defense. Every game will have stretches where we don't score due to the probabilistic nature of the game. Sometimes our misses will be interspersed between our makes, sometimes they will be bunched together at the end of the game, but all that matters at the end of the game is the number of points you score not when you score them. The more efficient you are the more points you score.
Marshall Wood was having a lot of trouble and went 0-5 that game had 1 rebound 0 blocks 0 assists. Deion went 1-2, pulled down 8 rebounds had 4 blocks and 2 assists. Not sure how many people would in retrospect ask for Wood to play more over Deion that game. KF had a great game so I can see wanting him in over TD in retrospect.
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They have to at least pay attention to mw knowing that he has at times been a weapon. Not the others.
That was easily Wood's worst game of the year, so I wouldn't use it as a be-all/end-all for him, just like I wouldn't use his stats vs. Cal as a be-all/end-all either. He's probably somewhere in the middle. But I imagine it's hard for him to get in the flow of the game – which is something shooters need – when he's playing 3 minutes here, 2 minutes there, 10-12 minutes total. I'd also think that mentally it's a little bit of a challenge knowing that you are primarily a shooter and you want to shoot, but you're afraid that if you take a few shots and miss them, you may go back to the bench for 15 minutes at a time.
That's why I want to see him start and play starter minutes – so we can see what we really have with him and he can relax and get into the flow of the game. He's only here through next year, so we might as well find out now.
Last year when Josh Jones finally got some extended PT, he blossomed because he got into the flow of things much better. I think the same would happen with Wood. Taylor and Davis can come in cold and play defense in spurts anytime – that's a lot easier to do than to play productive offense in spurts.
The only hole in the efficiency argument with DT and TD is that they are not "high volume" scorers like our other 3 starters. Between the two of them, they take so few shots that being super-efficient has a negligible impact on the final result. Yes, our other 3 guys are very efficient despite the fact that no one guards DT or TD. But having that scoring load concentrated on 3 guys has to contribute to fatigue and flat end of game play. I'd like to see how much more efficient our 3 "high volume scorers" would be with a 4th or 5th legit scoring option on the floor instead of DT or TD, and how much more fresh they could be at the end of a game if they didn't have to face so many double teams or sagging defenses.
Plus, our defense has been so poor, I'm not buying any arguments about how we need DT or TD's defensive talents. KF has been a good perimeter defender, and frankly I have not seen enough defensive prowess from DT to justify him playing so many more minutes than MW.
Plus, our defense has been so poor, I'm not buying any arguments about how we need DT or TD's defensive talents. KF has been a good perimeter defender, and frankly I have not seen enough defensive prowess from DT to justify him playing so many more minutes than MW.
In my estimation when DT and TD aren't guarded they will score. That is the only time they really score, and that is why they need to be guarded. If you leave them open they will make you pay by taking really efficient shots. They aren't left open often which is why they don't shoot often.
We don't have access to game film, but I would really like to go in and see what other teams do on defense against us and if the argument that TD and DT aren't actually guarded holds up. I also wish I could get game tape of us last year vs this year to see what the difference is on defense. Without actual game tape we are all going of box scores and memory. Unfortunately stats don't show the whole picture and memory has a tendency to be incomplete and inaccurate.
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the injuru
I think i would play all starters 40 minutes a game and not let Cline or Allen shoot and see how low thr score could be. I would also play all players with injuries even more so the injury will never heal. I would also never let anyone get game experience so they might score points. I would make all players do much bench oress. I would also say Coachfezz .. Go to &ell ..
DT might not be the worlds best defender but Marshall is right now a really poor defender. I can buy the argument that Marshall needs more time on the court to get in the flow and get his offense going, but he is really pretty bad on defense. He doesn't move his feet well, so small guys blow by him and big guys can overpower him quite easily. When him and TJ are on the court together as our bigs, our defense is really bad (try not to think about what happens next year).
Absolutely. We get cooked off the dribble all game. No one can stay in front of their man.
?????? What games have you been watching? If they aren't guarded they will score? Huh? They're NEVER guarded, and they don't score. For the majority of the game they don't even look to score, unless the shot clock is running down. There have been games when they've played 30+ minutes and never even shot the ball. And God forbid that they are fouled. Putting them on the line is like a turnover for us. Put down the bong (or pass it around, must be some good stuff).Tongue in cheek of course. I respect and agree with a lot of your posts, but I frankly don't understand this one. By the way, I'm not saying don't play them, but we need to start Fore and Wood in their place. I hope you would agree that something different needs at least to be tried, the wheels may come off soon if we don't.
If you leave DT and TD open, they will almost always pass up an open shot. They do not make the opposition pay by hitting shots every time they are open. If you re-watch the games, they pass up a LOT of open shots, and only shoot 3's when the shot clock forces them to, or they hit lay-ups or put-backs.
Again, they don't take enough shots for their efficiency to be a significant contribution to the offense. I agree that MW is not a great defender, but overall our defense this year, especially defending the 3 point line, has been dismal. We might as well start MW or play him for starters minutes and see how much he contributes to our offense.
EDIT: I have recorded every UR game that has been televised on DirecTV, and have re-watched a number of them (don't ask me why, sucker for punishment). TD and DT do not make the other teams pay for leaving them open, they simply pass up a TON of open shots that a decent-shooting D1 basketball player should take.
Again, they don't take enough shots for their efficiency to be a significant contribution to the offense. I agree that MW is not a great defender, but overall our defense this year, especially defending the 3 point line, has been dismal. We might as well start MW or play him for starters minutes and see how much he contributes to our offense.
EDIT: I have recorded every UR game that has been televised on DirecTV, and have re-watched a number of them (don't ask me why, sucker for punishment). TD and DT do not make the other teams pay for leaving them open, they simply pass up a TON of open shots that a decent-shooting D1 basketball player should take.
It tells me that the people I want to be shooting -- Allen, TJ, SDJ -- are the ones that are shooting. Again, offense really is not our problem this year. And I do think Marshall is markedly worse on defense than Deion.
As for 3% defense, one theory is that the past several years we had Garrett and Alonzo to clean up or deter the guys that would drive past the defender. We no longer have that, so I wonder if we are one step farther back from the shooter than we have been for the past 6 years. Also, Kendall was our fastest player by far and could recover on the perimeter fastest. Guys would be able to shoot over him, but he was at least up on them to take away the footwork rhythm.
I would love to rewatch these games. Unfortunately I don't have any recorded, I might have to figure out a way to do it.
Many times the right shot is TD or DT with the ball in their hands at the 3 pt line as the clock winds down(say 10 seconds left). Often they pass it up as they don't trust their shot or think we will get a better shot with time dwindling. Either way usually we do not get a higher % shot. Mooney's system kind of builds on the philosophy that with passing and cutting someone will get an open look and have the kind of % that it is a good idea to take the open look.
In the case of TD and DT we are not seeing it, OR they are just not taking shots. I want to see a lineup where everyone can shoot regardless of situation. If that lineup stinks defensively, so be it, we stink defensively right now anyway.
In the case of TD and DT we are not seeing it, OR they are just not taking shots. I want to see a lineup where everyone can shoot regardless of situation. If that lineup stinks defensively, so be it, we stink defensively right now anyway.
This is pretty much my view too. I get the other argument that we are playing well enough on offense to win, but since we are not winning and we're showing no signs of improvement on defense, let's try something else. The worst that happens is we keep losing. The best that happens is that we win – most likely in high-scoring games.
I think Wood is the legit fourth scoring option, as evidenced by what we saw in his best games of the year:
• Wake - 23 minutes, 15 points, we won 91-82;
• Cal – 29 minutes, 18 points, we won 94-90;
We are an offensive team this year. Our defense is not improving. Let's go all in on offense and just outscore teams. We've shown we can do it against good opponents like these two. Loosen things up a bit, let the guys run and shoot and use all of our offensive weapons. That's how we will win this year, if we do.
I think the fundamental question is, what problem is most pressing? For me, it is defense, and particularly perimeter defense. So I would try to fix that first. As such, I don't think more Marshall Wood over Deion Taylor is the answer, and I don't think taking shots away from SDJ, TA, or TJ is the answer. I do think playing Khwan more would be an improvement on the defensive end, because he rebounds extremely well, and he is more disruptive on the perimeter than Trey is. So of the things that could feasibly be changed, I would cut Trey's minutes and give them to Khwan.
If you still hope the team is playing for this year, and you think we need to give more time to Julius Johnson or Paul Friendshuh, you cannot be reasoned with. The seven guys who play most of the minutes are the seven guys who give us the best chance to win.
I think we are seeing that the unexpected losses of Alonzo and Josh Jones are maybe more impactful than we expected, particularly on defense (and obviously in depth).
If you still hope the team is playing for this year, and you think we need to give more time to Julius Johnson or Paul Friendshuh, you cannot be reasoned with. The seven guys who play most of the minutes are the seven guys who give us the best chance to win.
I think we are seeing that the unexpected losses of Alonzo and Josh Jones are maybe more impactful than we expected, particularly on defense (and obviously in depth).
the loss of ANO has to be the difference in our 3 point shooting defense. it's the only explanation. we came out further last year knowing we had a shot blocker behind us.
I was screaming at the tv last night. "trust the big men and get out there!" I know Deion, TJ and TA aren't going to block a ton of shots. I don't care. get out to the 3 point shooters. if you get beat or the ball goes inside, DO NOT COLLAPSE. trust the bigs to do the job. if they don't, oh well. but we can't let teams hit 3 pointers all night. the 3s are killing us.
I was screaming at the tv last night. "trust the big men and get out there!" I know Deion, TJ and TA aren't going to block a ton of shots. I don't care. get out to the 3 point shooters. if you get beat or the ball goes inside, DO NOT COLLAPSE. trust the bigs to do the job. if they don't, oh well. but we can't let teams hit 3 pointers all night. the 3s are killing us.
Josh was an unexpected loss that we could not adjust to. ANO transferred at the end of last year, if CM thought his loss was going to be huge, he had time to scour the transfer market to get a graduate transfer. I believe we brought a few guys to look at but predictably could not close the deal on those guys.
Why in Year 11 of a regime, do we have to put up with only have a roster of 8 guys who can effectively earn time on the court?
Why in Year 11 of a regime, do we have to put up with only have a roster of 8 guys who can effectively earn time on the court?
They pass up the shots (even open shots) because of lack of confidence. Trey does have the ability to slash to to the basket. This is something that DT rarely does.
Amen brother!! DT must feel like he is Tom Hanks in the movie Castaway when he has the ball. Nobody guards him ever!!! Opponents beg for a 9% 3pt shooter to shoot!! I would foul DT , DT and KF every time they touched the ball anywhere on the court, it's a turnover!! We have a confidence problem pure and simple.
Using your logic, 211, we should let Davis and Taylor shoot all the time since they are the most efficient shooters according to you. Do you watch these guys play? Have you seen Taylor down low? How often? Want him hoisting up threes all night? I don't. Have you watched Davis drive frantically across the lane and then when he is close to the basket he passes it outside the three point line??? Yes, he can make a layup once in a blue moon but neither of these senior "defensive specialists" can or have ever made any real consistent contribution to the offense and in my view are vastly overrated as defensive "specialists". I counted four or five layups last night that Davis gave up.
Most of the players on this team don't get in good defensive position and don't move their feet on defense. Cline and Wood are terrible at this and Allen really gets beaten way too much, but at least those guys can score.
I say let Davis and Taylor shoot 15 times a game and lets see what they can do. Lets see how efficient they really are.
I would like to see TD go to basket early in the game and make the other team guard him. Also I would ask DT to go to the offensive rim on every shot for a rebound or tap in. The kid can jump a mile high. It would get both envolved in the offensive part of the game, create fouls, and energize the whole team. Both are athletes, use that!!!
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If this is what you took away from my posts than I must be doing a terrible job at explaining things since it is not what I was trying to say at all. Sometimes I feel like I am taking crazy pills!
Great points.
This way we use these guys for what they can do best as opposed to letting them hang 20 feet from the basket. Follow the skills of the players versus making them conform to a system where they don't fit the greatest.
I like Eight's idea start Khwan and Wood and go all in on O. Play to the players strengths and if that means if guys are too slow to switch or get out, play some straight up zone. Our best wins were high scoring shootouts. Forget the D there's no saving it unless you bring in different players
It won't happen. It's not a part of the system.
when we go "out there" the ball handler blows right by our defenders. Then Our d has to collapse on the dribbler leaving the perimeter open. It's rare that the shooter is the ball handler and we aren't up on him. It's almost always after penetration into the paint because our outside defenders can't contain anyone and I mean an-y-one.
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"I would like to see TD go to basket early in the game and make the other team guard him. Also I would ask DT go to the offensive rim on every shot for a rebound or tap in. The kid can jump a mile high. It would get both envolved in the offensive part of the game, create fouls, and energize the whole team. Both are athletes, use that!!!"
Great points!!!!
I agree with the points above and agree that we gain offense AND defense when Khwan is in the game. He needs more minutes and maybe he takes minutes from TD. I am not yet convinced that MW plays enough defense to compensate for his inconsistent offense. If he were a scoring machine, sure. But he is "hot and cold." Khwan has been steady, and DT and TD both do energize the team when they take it to the hoop. The question about why teams are hitting such amazing 3-point percentages against us (did RI really shoot 70% from 3???), and St. J shot over 50%??) Those figures are "over the top." It is either a statistical fluke or our guys are not guarding close enough. Khwan helps us with 3-point D and with lots of other categories (like scoring and rebounding). Plus, right now, SDJ probably needs to rest his leg, which is another reason to play KF more...
The only consistency in the entries above (almost all) is to play KF more.
"I would like to see TD go to basket early in the game and make the other team guard him. Also I would ask DT go to the offensive rim on every shot for a rebound or tap in. The kid can jump a mile high. It would get both envolved in the offensive part of the game, create fouls, and energize the whole team. Both are athletes, use that!!!"
Great points!!!!
I agree with the points above and agree that we gain offense AND defense when Khwan is in the game. He needs more minutes and maybe he takes minutes from TD. I am not yet convinced that MW plays enough defense to compensate for his inconsistent offense. If he were a scoring machine, sure. But he is "hot and cold." Khwan has been steady, and DT and TD both do energize the team when they take it to the hoop. The question about why teams are hitting such amazing 3-point percentages against us (did RI really shoot 70% from 3???), and St. J shot over 50%??) Those figures are "over the top." It is either a statistical fluke or our guys are not guarding close enough. Khwan helps us with 3-point D and with lots of other categories (like scoring and rebounding). Plus, right now, SDJ probably needs to rest his leg, which is another reason to play KF more...
The only consistency in the entries above (almost all) is to play KF more.
True point for in the RUI game there were several times we had their defense out of position and DT or TD would get the ball after several passes, be wide open and not shoot, but pass to the next man who by this time the defense had shifted over to. Again CM has given them roles to play and it must be only shoot as a last resort for DT and TD. You know competitors have the scouting report that says who does and does not shoot. Go after TJ and TA, get them in foul trouble and take UR's offense off the floor.
MW is not a good defender by any means but on offense he has shown only that he shoots the three. Surely he can post up or drive to lane and take a short jumper? I think what we are facing now is the fact teams have seen our success from early part of season and built their strategy on that and we are not adjusting.
I think I have this concern. That Jones ankle will heal slow because of too many minutes toosoon. I hope this is wrong. I think also we will always see the same rotation. So I think we should let the non scorers shoot more even if they miss in case this is wrong that they cant shoot. It is the hope they will bw able to learn to make the shot in games because I do not think the other players will not get minutes who might make the shot . The player mangement now is THE most important strategy now. But I do worry about lack of experience. I think every year this lack of expwerience plays in the next year after year and then we are in this position once again one injury away from being a low team. I hope none of this is true
We really have no verification that sdj is hurting at all. He played poorly but did not seem to be slowed down or limping. I think he likely was kept out of practice often to rest and was just off. And mooney used different lineups during practice w out sdj and used them at times in game. I could be wrong certainly.
SDJ was limping after he took a shot in the second half. I didn't watch the whole second half that closely, so I don't recall whether he limped much after that or not, but it looked like he had tweaked something.
He was slow to get up at least once and looked like he was limping a bit after getting helped up.
Why bother bringing up their shooting "efficiency" if they take too few shots (because they both know they can't shoot) to impact the offense any way? My answer was along the lines of Swift's "A Modest Proposal".
The point is replacing DT's/TD's shots with shots from KF/MW won't increase the number of points we score since KF/MW won't score more efficiently. The only way MW/KF will score more points than DT/TD is by taking more shots than them, which means they are taking shots away from TA/TJ/SDJ. Am I advocating for DT and TD to take more shots? No, they only take high efficiency shots (dunks/layups/wide open 3s) and let our better scorers take the shot when the high efficiency one isn't there. This is called good shot selection and is how every defensive specialist should play. Replacing them won't have a very big impact on our offense since they aren't taking bad shots or missing a bunch of shots and aren't hindering our offensive powerhouses by being on the court (unless you think TA and TJ are actually better than 16th and 18th in the country where kenpom has them).
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I see your theory here, but I don't know that I agree with it. There are a lot of variables at play. When Wood and Fore both are "on," they are very capable scorers. Yes, they will take away some of the shots that Terry and TJ and SDJ have now, but those guys will have easier shots, too, because defenses will have to focus on more potential scorers. So I would expect them to become more efficient scorers themselves (well, maybe not TJ...he's already pretty efficient).
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