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W&M Fires Tony Shafer after 16 Seasons

Bumping this. When W&M fired Shaver, its fanbase couldn't believe it and was ready to set fire to the administration building for thinking that 15 years was enough time for him to make an NCAA. It hired a new coach no one had heard of and a few rising seniors transferred out of the program. Everyone used it as an example of why getting rid of a longtime coach is a horrible idea, and it was all gloom and doom in the 'burg.

Well, the new coach signed two grad transfers, including a 7-footer from Wisconsin who is now averaging 17 points a game, and the Tribe is 3-0 and currently winning at Oklahoma with 4 minutes left in the game.
 
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Eight Legger said:
Bumping this. When W&M fired Shaver, its fanbase couldn't believe it and was ready to set fire to the administration building for thinking that 15 years was enough time for him to make an NCAA. It hired a new coach no one had heard of and a few rising seniors transferred out of the program. Everyone used it as an example of why getting rid of a longtime coach is a horrible idea, and it was all gloom and doom in the 'burg.

Well, the new coach signed two grad transfers, including a 7-footer from Wisconsin who is now averaging 17 points a game, and the Tribe is 3-0 and currently winning at Oklahoma with 4 minutes left in the game.
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Van Vliet (the 7 footer) is not a grad transfer. He transferred when Shaver was there and sat out last year. Tough loss tonight, but, I agree that Dane Fischer, their coach, does have them off to a good start and playing well.
 
WebSpinner said:
being a long time fan, understand all of it but just not easy to go through this and watch this and told my wife recently, glad we are not in Richmond right now.
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I just saw this post. Most fans have not acted the way you expected. They have gotten better this year.
 
First of all, a rising tide lifts all boats; it’s easier to be graceful while winning.

Second, there has certainly been a dropoff in attendance. It’s possible it’s coincidental of course but seems likely it’s a shampoo effect of the underwhelming performance the last two seasons.
 
MrTbone said:
First of all, a rising tide lifts all boats; it’s easier to be graceful while winning.

Second, there has certainly been a dropoff in attendance. It’s possible it’s coincidental of course but seems likely it’s a shampoo effect of the underwhelming performance the last two seasons.
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I'm sure it's just collectively a couple thousand people all having to work late or family commitments on game nights. Probably, completely a coincidence.

Now, let me go pick up my free tickets to sit in one of our luxury boxes for Friday's game.
 
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for the passive aggressives on the board, W&M went on the road and got blown out by a team picked 10th preseason in the Pac 12

Stanford 81 WM 50

at least the AD scheduled the buy games to pay off Shaver's buyout
 
Feel free to call me out by name if you desire. No one expected W&M to do a damn thing after they got rid of such an "incredible" coach like Shaver, who never won anything. They've already exceeded expectations and will do well in the CAA.
 
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I call you guys "smart" basketball fans, and years ahead of the curve. I remember being at the A10 tournament years ago and meeting a guy I would now label as an FMM guy. We had a beer after the game and both had the same opinion of Mooney's coaching ability or lack thereof. I have to say Mooney has not fixed the things he did poorly, nor change our opinion sadly. The beat goes on. But keep believin' in him, he is likely to get us 3 NCAA's every 20 years.
 
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Eight Legger said:
Feel free to call me out by name if you desire. No one expected W&M to do a damn thing after they got rid of such an "incredible" coach like Shaver, who never won anything. They've already exceeded expectations and will do well in the CAA.
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Eight Legger said:
Feel free to call me out by name if you desire. No one expected W&M to do a damn thing after they got rid of such an "incredible" coach like Shaver, who never won anything. They've already exceeded expectations and will do well in the CAA.
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By the way, WM has never won anything, but they won more under Shaver than they did under most. Imagine how good they would be if the 3 guys who would starting hadn't left when Shaver got fired....That is the risk you always run.

Nathan Knight could go to he NBA, but he apparently values his education, so he decided to stay for his degree. Probably didn't want to risk sitting out a year if his transfer request got denied.

Maybe the the "strategic plan" "focus group" "collaborative" AD will be right on this. Speaking of which, I will take the under...


The plan outlines concrete steps that can be taken for W&M Athletics to break into the top 100 in the Directors’ Cup and to win at least 35 CAA championships, including five championships in the community-building sports of football and men’s and women’s basketball.
 
MrTbone said:
There are a variety of terms I'd use to describe the Mooney detractors, "passive aggressives" isn't one of them.
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It all depends on which of the Five Stages of Mooney they are in. I think many are still in Anger and Bargaining. I think I've moved on to Acceptance, but I may still be in Denial.
 
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LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster said:
By the way, WM has never won anything, but they won more under Shaver than they did under most. Imagine how good they would be if the 3 guys who would starting hadn't left when Shaver got fired....That is the risk you always run.
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This is a position of fear. It's one shared by many in our fanbase.

"We'll lose good players. We'll never be this good again. Who will we find to coach the team who could do any better?" Etc. etc.

W&M seems to have hired a good coach. Everything falls into place when you do that. We've seen as much with our women's team already this year. W&M made the right move, and I applaud them for it. They weren't making the NCAAs this year with Shaver anyway, because they never had in 15 years and it wasn't going to start happening now.
 
Eight Legger said:
This is a position of fear. It's one shared by many in our fanbase.

"We'll lose good players. We'll never be this good again. Who will we find to coach the team who could do any better?" Etc. etc.

W&M seems to have hired a good coach. Everything falls into place when you do that. We've seen as much with our women's team already this year. W&M made the right move, and I applaud them for it. They weren't making the NCAAs this year with Shaver anyway, because they never had in 15 years and it wasn't going to start happening now.
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I would not exactly saw a standing O is in order after 5 or 6 games.

William & Mary all time basketball record 1,122–1,254 (in fairness, Shaver is also below .500 in his career, with the same historical winn)
Number of 20 win seasons in W&M history-8
Number of those seasons by Shaver -4

At schools like WM and Richmond one year turnarounds just don't happen. Once Knight goes, the rebuild will start. Imagine how good they would be if Knight, van vlight and the 3 transfers? If they don't win then (4 Seniors and a sophomore), make your change then.

The AD there is delusional. Go read her strategic plan. full of nice fluffy words that sound great.

Permission to bump this thread in March if I'm wrong :)
 
It's easy to say "I want to win" and get adulation as a leader. so far she's hired a career assistant at a $225k per year base salary. that doesn't exactly scream "all in".

Fischer might end up a good hire. but I'll believe the AD's leadership has changed anything when it actually changes anything.
 
Well, she realized that giving a 15-year coach a limitless contract wasn't going to move the needle, so she decided to try something different. I give her a ton of credit.
 
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come on Eight, every AD wants to win, not just this woman. they all have their plans and vision. just saying that all of the ADs in w&m's history probably had the same vision, a similar plan, yet, they have never danced, ever. just making a coaching change does not mean success or if it did, they would have gotten there sometime over the past 75 years or so. realize one has to make changes, every school does, some more often than others. always pull for the indians to dance and they have gotten close several times. having the right coach is paramount but seems like they have never had the right one for some reason. heck, we got very, very, lucky with DT, an interim coach at first. a crap shoot in many ways no matter how hard you look and how deep of a search you make and w&m is proof of that.
 
Of course, but she came in and made it THE priority and made it known that it was the expectation. I give her credit for that. We have a program that has shied away from making any type of proclamations about anything.
 
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she had a hand with 5 really good players in it, and threw it away. and her grand plan was to hire an assistant from George Mason?

How long did it take to come up with TRIBE 2025?
 
And what did those "really good players" do for them before this season? That's right, nothing. Anytime you hire a new coach, some players will leave. Duh. But a better coach makes the team better.

But you're right, no assistant coach ever became a head coach and thrived.
 
spider23 said:
EL, I hate that mentality too: "We can't lose Mooney, because we could suck even worse". That has been the mindset here for awhile. Folks were hoping Hardt would be a change, but from all appearances he is a PQ puppet.
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You really need new material.

I will say it one more time. Experience is a valuable commodity in college basketball. They had the experience and the pieces in place to probably be favorites in the CAA. They lost 4 valuable--experienced--pieces. If they don't win this year, they are going to have to start all over again. I think it was a dumb decision. I may be wrong--you may be right.

Again, I understand that assistant coaches can become head coaches. I just ask the question, is this guy worth blowing up your roster over??? I'm not sold after beating High Point and whoever else they beat.

I couple more points EL. She is such a great AD, rumor has it according to a friend of mine that has been connected at WM since the 80/90s, that she miscalculated Shaver's buyout by one full year.

since youre so enamored with her strategic vision for Athletics, what does this mean and what does it have to do w/ Wins and Losses???

''W&M Athletics has enhanced the game-day experience, bolstered diversity and inclusion efforts and strengthened communications to provide greater transparency in all of its sports programs.
 
LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster said:
I would not exactly saw a standing O is in order after 5 or 6 games.

William & Mary all time basketball record 1,122–1,254 (in fairness, Shaver is also below .500 in his career, with the same historical winn)
Number of 20 win seasons in W&M history-8
Number of those seasons by Shaver -4

At schools like WM and Richmond one year turnarounds just don't happen. Once Knight goes, the rebuild will start. Imagine how good they would be if Knight, van vlight and the 3 transfers? If they don't win then (4 Seniors and a sophomore), make your change then.

The AD there is delusional. Go read her strategic plan. full of nice fluffy words that sound great.

Permission to bump this thread in March if I'm wrong :)
Click to expand...

Mooney is safe next year for the same reasons. They won’t fire him if these guys all come back and play their senior and grad years here. Nobody at UR has those kind of balls. At this point the time to get rid of Mooney is if there are no NCAA playoff games the next two years and everyone is leaving anyway. That will make it easy for Hardt.
 
LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster said:
You really need new material.

I will say it one more time. Experience is a valuable commodity in college basketball. They had the experience and the pieces in place to probably be favorites in the CAA. They lost 4 valuable--experienced--pieces. If they don't win this year, they are going to have to start all over again. I think it was a dumb decision. I may be wrong--you may be right.

Again, I understand that assistant coaches can become head coaches. I just ask the question, is this guy worth blowing up your roster over??? I'm not sold after beating High Point and whoever else they beat.

I couple more points EL. She is such a great AD, rumor has it according to a friend of mine that has been connected at WM since the 80/90s, that she miscalculated Shaver's buyout by one full year.

since youre so enamored with her strategic vision for Athletics, what does this mean and what does it have to do w/ Wins and Losses???

''W&M Athletics has enhanced the game-day experience, bolstered diversity and inclusion efforts and strengthened communications to provide greater transparency in all of its sports programs.
Click to expand...


Never understand the "don't blow up the roster" argument. You can always argue the roster is more experienced, or promising new guys coming in, or another year will make everyone better, etc
 
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LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster said:
You really need new material.

I will say it one more time. Experience is a valuable commodity in college basketball. They had the experience and the pieces in place to probably be favorites in the CAA. They lost 4 valuable--experienced--pieces. If they don't win this year, they are going to have to start all over again. I think it was a dumb decision. I may be wrong--you may be right.

Again, I understand that assistant coaches can become head coaches. I just ask the question, is this guy worth blowing up your roster over??? I'm not sold after beating High Point and whoever else they beat.

I couple more points EL. She is such a great AD, rumor has it according to a friend of mine that has been connected at WM since the 80/90s, that she miscalculated Shaver's buyout by one full year.

since youre so enamored with her strategic vision for Athletics, what does this mean and what does it have to do w/ Wins and Losses???

''W&M Athletics has enhanced the game-day experience, bolstered diversity and inclusion efforts and strengthened communications to provide greater transparency in all of its sports programs.
Click to expand...
I suspect it means they've enhanced their gameday experience, have done much more community outreach to communities that maybe they didn't proactively engage with before, maybe started a kids club or a ticket donation effort, and hired a few new PR/ social media people who know how to use spellcheck.
 
LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster said:
You really need new material.

I will say it one more time. Experience is a valuable commodity in college basketball. They had the experience and the pieces in place to probably be favorites in the CAA. They lost 4 valuable--experienced--pieces. If they don't win this year, they are going to have to start all over again. I think it was a dumb decision. I may be wrong--you may be right.

Again, I understand that assistant coaches can become head coaches. I just ask the question, is this guy worth blowing up your roster over??? I'm not sold after beating High Point and whoever else they beat.

I couple more points EL. She is such a great AD, rumor has it according to a friend of mine that has been connected at WM since the 80/90s, that she miscalculated Shaver's buyout by one full year.

since youre so enamored with her strategic vision for Athletics, what does this mean and what does it have to do w/ Wins and Losses???

''W&M Athletics has enhanced the game-day experience, bolstered diversity and inclusion efforts and strengthened communications to provide greater transparency in all of its sports programs.
Click to expand...
OK dude, I agree, W&M should have just kept keeping on. I'm sure they had a "great" soph/junior roster 4 or 5 years ago and underacheived, and so on and so on. Mooney has been playing the same cards for a while too - last season we were supposed to be very good after finishing the previous year strong. Etc Etc.
 
spider23 said:
OK dude, I agree, W&M should have just kept keeping on. I'm sure they had a "great" soph/junior roster 4 or 5 years ago and underacheived, and so on and so on. Mooney has been playing the same cards for a while too - last season we were supposed to be very good after finishing the previous year strong. Etc Etc.
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We could keep this up a little longer, but they are a career under .500 school. He was (I believe) the winningest coach in the schools history. He had more 20 win seasons then anyone else. WM wise, he was a rousing success.

I'm done. If they make the NCAAs you can bump this up to the top in march, and say I told you so.
 
So why do we care about William & Mary anyway? Are we going to drop back to the CAA for basketball?
 
Spiders4ever said:
So why do we care about William & Mary anyway? Are we going to drop back to the CAA for basketball?
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No one cares about W&M except as a litmus test on why you’d keep or fire a career slightly over .500 coach.

I’d advise this isn’t worth debating until March.
 
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