VCU Game Thread at the Stu- 4pm Sat ESPNU/ESPN+ (?)

[spider23]

I know you know what the Heels fans call CP3 😀. Sucks we lost to VCU. Just watched the first half, we missed a ton of open shots and a layup.
At least UNC and SDSU had big wins against their rivals tonight.

 

[Spider B]

Have you watched Neal play and how we run the offense? I can assure you the gameplan has never been to pound it inside. I don’t disagree with Neal needing to be on the block sealing his man but that isn’t the system but I’ve only been around for 4 yrs.

I agree with you Dad, but I think that is what is frustrating. VCU doesn't have anyone that can guard Quinn on the block. Sometimes you have to adjust the system to take advantage of your advantage. Big picture, honestly I expected to lose this game. Based on history, its what CM does. But we are still in good shape. Get back to winning next week.

 

[SpiderFan]

I think Mooney does really well when expectations are on the lower side of things. But it doesn't matter the season, he just doesn't seem to be dial it in for the VCU games. Unfortunately that probable puts the season at the "have to win the conference tourney to get into the dance" stage.

 

[Eight Legger]

Unfortunately a lot of things seemed to be lining up for this to be a loss. I hate losing to those assholes. Cannot stand it. Despise everything about them and their program. But F them. We're still two games ahead of them in the standings, we have the tiebreaker over everyone who matters and we are going to beat the everliving shit out of them at home in a few weeks. Meanwhile, they will get their asses handed to them twice by Dayton between now and then.

 

[Gallipoli]

I thought our guys looked tired. Nothing looked sharp. We started off flat and we stayed that way. The week off will help, after that we will be more energized. This loss will help us focus down the stretch.

 

[ManiBenton]

Big surprise. Mooney chokes at VCU. No matter who VCU brings in to coach, Mooney is out of his league. He cant draw up one play for the 2nd best player in the conference??? This is why I refuse to believe in this team.

I like this guy.....

 

[wr70beh]

Richmond just lost a spot in the NCAA tourney with this lackluster effort!

Hold on, they can still win the tournament to get in. I always thought an at-large was a long shot anyway just because of the landscape of college hoops these days.

 

[GKiller]

8-25. It doesn’t matter if vcu plays bad or plays well if it’s home or away if they r missing one of their best players which they were. They beat us. It’s unacceptable. I guess we’re supposed to be grateful we were 8-0 in A10 heading into it and be ok with result. F that. That’s the Richmond mentality. Everything in our favor. Who cares. Blah blah blah…u r still 8-25.

Dlo and Dji kept us in it. They played tough. & Sdad I will join u in the Giselle!!. Also u were noticeable on TV. Great work. U brought energy & some chatter, liked to see it. 1 tiny word of advice…drop the woe is me the refs hate us. I think u r so used to watching & rooting for the heels cowboys lakers Yankees etc that u may not realize this is the Spiders. We don’t get those calls but nor do majority of teams.

We have to move fwd & stuff still to play for but we can’t ignore elephant in room. We r almost always the nail to vcu hammer. It sucks.

 

[MrTbone]

Hate losing to VCU. Hate it.

Does anyone think we shouldn’t have won that game if we run our offense halfway decently? Not knocking our guys or VCU, but The Spids are a better team than that.

I hate that they couldn’t get it going.

 

[SpiderRick]

This one game doesn’t make the season and I dislike vcu just as much as everyone on here.

With respect, I know this not to be true. I and many others here (the red sweater vest crowd) have hated them since they were RPI....their old name Dad.....back in the 60's.
Come back in 20 years with a red sweater vest on and we will welcome you to the club.

Mooney has had his moments, but as a sideline coach, he leaves me scratching my head like all the time. And VCU has his number, it doesn't matter if Richmond is better than VCU or not. The Rams have had hat 5 different head coaches in Mooney's tenure, but nothing changes.

And it's not a rivalry if one team always dominates the other....

 

[SpiderDad75]

8-25. It doesn’t matter if vcu plays bad or plays well if it’s home or away if they r missing one of their best players which they were. They beat us. It’s unacceptable. I guess we’re supposed to be grateful we were 8-0 in A10 heading into it and be ok with result. F that. That’s the Richmond mentality. Everything in our favor. Who cares. Blah blah blah…u r still 8-25.

Dlo and Dji kept us in it. They played tough. & Sdad I will join u in the Giselle!!. Also u were noticeable on TV. Great work. U brought energy & some chatter, liked to see it. 1 tiny word of advice…drop the woe is me the refs hate us. I think u r so used to watching & rooting for the heels cowboys lakers Yankees etc that u may not realize this is the Spiders. We don’t get those calls but nor do majority of teams.

We have to move fwd & stuff still to play for but we can’t ignore elephant in room. We r almost always the nail to vcu hammer. It sucks.

I hear ya G…you got me on the Cowboys and Heels😀 Lakers ehhhh…I would say LeBron fan and I don’t really care for baseball, but I do think the calls were lopsided yesterday and it did hurt us. With that being said I thought they hit shots and made the plays and we didn’t. The game plan to double Jordan was smart on their part and we didn’t take advantage of our size inside. I do think their length and athleticism bothered some of our guys. But I’m with you it sucks!

 

[GKiller]

Re: this one game doesn’t make the season, the vcu games have played an outsized role in season outcomes between both ur and vcu over the years. Facts. If we’d win more often the benefits would be more evident & tangible to us.

I said it earlier in thread this was a ridiculously huge swing game. Is the season over? No. But if u believe even a little in forecasting and probabilities this game could have made the season. But we came up short…again.

 

[Eight Legger]

I don't understand why we ALWAYS appear to be playing offense in quicksand at that hellhole. I've watched their team a bunch of times this year and they can't stop anyone. Like at all. They're soft as hell. But against us, Quinn never got inside the free throw line and we couldn't get any forward momentum all night long. How does that happen?

We had no expectation of them playing defense up in our faces all night long? It's literally what they always do, regardless of the coach. Hard to believe we couldn't take advantage of their overpursuit and draw something up to kill it.

 

[RichmondNative]

Everyone has missed the obvious reason that the Spiders lost - the red unis. /s

The Spiders definitely did not play their best and a few key plays got the crowd to a fever pitch and that was all the Rams needed. I think all the hype over the last week was great for exposure, but an unneeded distraction when the team is about to play in the most hostile environment they will see this year. Plus, if you had to pick an A10 team to get a confidence boost regarding rebounding it would be Richmond, a team that basically concedes offensive boards and has typically relied on one player on the defensive end for years. Then add to that a public calling out by Odom on the Rams lack of toughness and surprise you get a 42-24 rebounding advantage. Last, the Rams hit nearly all their FTs, an area that used to be a weakness, but looks like will not be under Odom.

Do agree with Dlo’s comments after the game that the team goals are still out there to be achieved. The goal has to be to win the A10 tournament and having reached the halfway point in conference play, it sure looks like a possibility. Time to start another streak on Saturday and keep taking one game at a time. Go Spiders!

 

[PalmTreeSpidUR]

Had we shot even approaching our normal percentage we would have won, relatively easily. But last night was just UGH-ly.

 

[Eight Legger]

We should beat them without too much issue anywhere but that hellhole. Hope we see them two more times this year.

 

[nathanw19]

I hear ya G…you got me on the Cowboys and Heels😀 Lakers ehhhh…I would say LeBron fan and I don’t really care for baseball, but I do think the calls were lopsided yesterday and it did hurt us. With that being said I thought they hit shots and made the plays and we didn’t. The game plan to double Jordan was smart on their part and we didn’t take advantage of our size inside. I do think their length and athleticism bothered some of our guys. But I’m with you it sucks!

There were a few calls that I admittedly was screaming at the tv about, but I don’t think that was the difference in the game. I think it was 3 things:

1. Their defensive plan to double on screens, especially on King, really disrupted our offense. We were too slow getting the ball out of the double too often (their length on the perimeter really helped them there), and couldn’t take advantage of the 4 v 3 on the rest of the court.

2. We were sloppy on offense. Call it tired, or under estimating VCU, or just a bad night, but we were turning the ball over on lots of bad decisions (and how many shot clock violations were it looked like we didn’t know the time?!?!?!). And then we just got into no rhythm. It’s been said before about Mooney teams, but we go as our pg goes, and King had an off night/they did well against King.

3. They got hot late from deep. They go 0 for 25 or something from 3 going into the game, and then hit 5 straight?!?! In crunch time?!?! Plus a bs foul for 3 shots (definitely an offensive kick out). Just killer…

Need to be a goldfish and forget about this one. Still lots to play for rest of the season. But ****…. I hate losing to VCU…

 

[SpiderGuy]

Dinner tasted bad last night following a game we should have won. Thought breakfast this AM would taste better, but the taste of losing to VCU still lingers. Just poor execution in most facets of the game. No more of this rest of season especially when Rams visit our place. We are better than this.

 

[SpiderDad75]

There were a few calls that I admittedly was screaming at the tv about, but I don’t think that was the difference in the game. I think it was 3 things:

1. Their defensive plan to double on screens, especially on King, really disrupted our offense. We were too slow getting the ball out of the double too often (their length on the perimeter really helped them there), and couldn’t take advantage of the 4 v 3 on the rest of the court.

2. We were sloppy on offense. Call it tired, or under estimating VCU, or just a bad night, but we were turning the ball over on lots of bad decisions (and how many shot clock violations were it looked like we didn’t know the time?!?!?!). And then we just got into no rhythm. It’s been said before about Mooney teams, but we go as our pg goes, and King had an off night/they did well against King.

3. They got hot late from deep. They go 0 for 25 or something from 3 going into the game, and then hit 5 straight?!?! In crunch time?!?! Plus a bs foul for 3 shots (definitely an offensive kick out). Just killer…

Need to be a goldfish and forget about this one. Still lots to play for rest of the season. But ****…. I hate losing to VCU…

Agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here…officiating was bad I thought it was more lop sided in this game opposed to the Dayton game where both teams suffered from bad calls about equally. Ultimately points 1 and 3 are why we lost along with not taking advantage of our size inside. I don’t think I’ve been happy with the officiating all season, the A10 officials have been some of the worst. In hindsight the Davidson crew of young officials were maybe the best ones we’ve had this season and they weren’t perfect. So I’m with you let’s move on…all of our goals are still within reach. We are in the drivers seat, let’s keep it that way 🕷️🏀

 

[ManiBenton]

Hold on, they can still win the tournament to get in. I always thought an at-large was a long shot anyway just because of the landscape of college hoops these days.

Yeah I agree. Coming into conference play an at large was mainly a long shot. Don't think anybody expected this 8-0 start including a win versus Dayton. If this team just held on to win BC and Colorado we'd be able to afford a loss or two in conference. Always sucks losing to VCU and see all their fans on twitter raving about this but kinda of numb to it at this point.

 

[SpiderLaw]

The team at times looked tired mentally and physically. Our bye on Wednesday comes at a very good time.

 

[Spiders4ever]

The team at times looked tired mentally and physically. Our bye on Wednesday comes at a very good time.

In the RTD article today Mooney said he should have used his bench more. I think I've heard this before.

 

[SpiderRick]

Said it a zillion times, Mooney's teams play much better playing up tempo and loose rather than the now stale vaulted Princeton offense. Sure, the back door plays are nice, but any good coach can make adjustments for them. And other than the first 5 minutes of the second half, I saw little fire from the Spiders last night.

BTW props to Dji on the 4-4 free throws, we're going to need them all from here on out.

 

[SpiderGuy]

In the RTD article today Mooney said he should have used his bench more. I think I've heard this before.

For years. He’s on autopilot.

 

[bullfrog91]

Yeah I agree. Coming into conference play an at large was mainly a long shot. Don't think anybody expected this 8-0 start including a win versus Dayton. If this team just held on to win BC and Colorado we'd be able to afford a loss or two in conference. Always sucks losing to VCU and see all their fans on twitter raving about this but kinda of numb to it at this point.

It was their Superbowl...normally they come into this game with overwhelming confidence, not this year! They needed this game more than us ....now we need to look ahead, right the ship, and figure out a game plan when future does use the same defensive plan against us.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Said it a zillion times, Mooney's teams play much better playing up tempo and loose rather than the now stale vaulted Princeton offense. Sure, the back door plays are nice, but any good coach can make adjustments for them. And other than the first 5 minutes of the second half, I saw little fire from the Spiders last night.

BTW props to Dji on the 4-4 free throws, we're going to need them all from here on out.

I second and third this. Have said this several times this season. This year’s team especially has the athletes to play up tempo. When we’ve done this this season, we are at our best. Played way too slowly yesterday - shot clock violation or two as well as multiple possessions down to last second or two. I refuse to give outstanding kudos to VCU defense. We hurt ourselves more than VCU did.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

This is obvious. When on the road you don’t shoot as well as a general proposition. You have a guy a few inches taller than anyone on the court, he needs to be down low shooting from point blank range at least 15 times and popping out for open threes. Him posting up 20 feet from the basket is not playing through him. With a long team, that just causes traffic and congestion., with no open shots. I can assure you the game plan was to pound it in inside, not to hoist threes and have 5’10 guards drive into very athletic trees. That game plan was lost for some reason. I am confused at your question.

So playing through someone at the elbow isn't playing through someone?

 

[kneepadmckinney]

My favorite moment of the game was the five guys on the court at the end of the game with the clock running out getting into a huddle. Don't know what they said and don't really care. It shows me they'll be ready for practice this week and ready next Saturday.

As for the game yesterday, I yelled at the television as much as anyone, but sometimes you just put it in the rearview and adjust. I think we'll be better next time, even though they'll have Bairstow and therefore less Nelson.

 

[GKiller]

So I’m with you let’s move on…all of our goals are still within reach. We are in the drivers seat, let’s keep it that way 🕷️🏀

What r team goals? I’ve never heard Moon articulate them. Beating vcu & at large bids should be among them but who the hell knows, maybe they’re only pie in the sky ones.

 

[UR80sfan]

My favorite moment of the game was the five guys on the court at the end of the game with the clock running out getting into a huddle. Don't know what they said and don't really care. It shows me they'll be ready for practice this week and ready next Saturday.

As for the game yesterday, I yelled at the television as much as anyone, but sometimes you just put it in the rearview and adjust. I think we'll be better next time, even though they'll have Bairstow and therefore less Nelson.

You can understand the atmosphere of the Siegel Center unless you where there in person. That might have been the most hostile crowd the new players on the team have ever experienced.

 

[97spiderfan]

Here's my issue with our strategy. We had a decided size advantage in this game. It was talked about on this board before the game, so it defies logic to me, why we would have Neil operate almost exclusively at the top of the key most of the game. Like why????

We can run our offense with Neil up top distributing OR with Neil down low where we try to pound it into him. With the size mismatch Neil had it is screaming for him to operate predominantly out of the low post, but yet Mooney does the opposite. And especially when VCU decide to double Jordan, in which case now we have allowed VCU to neutralize our two best scoring options, one by VCU's choice and one by our own self-inflicted decision.

 

[ManiBenton]

What r team goals? I’ve never heard Moon articulate them. Beating vcu & at large bids should be among them but who the hell knows, maybe they’re only pie in the sky ones.

mooney already accomplished them. He's already played himself into another extension. sad

 

[SpiderTrap]

No reason to panic - this game just highlighted our weaknesses, which I think we already knew. The problem was they all hit at the same time in the same game - which when that occurs for any team, it will be tough to win. We had some good luck early, while we were cold and couldn't make a shot, neither could VCU. This kept the game close, but unfortunately in the 2nd half - our cold shooting continued, and VCU was able to hit more shots and be more timely near the end with their 3's and build a lead. Here's our weaknesses, which hopefully don't all get exaggerated in the same game again.

1) King - he has played great all season, especially in the A10. But we need him, in big games - to have a big game. Dayton - he didn't play great, but still got 17 for us, and go us over the hump for the win. This game, he was cold and could never get going. This is our biggest weakness. We are really dependent on him to get everything going. I don't expect him to have many of these games, cause he has not had a lot this year. But if he can't get us big points in big games - its an uphill battle.

2) Quinn is soft. Plain and simple. He is finesse player, who is much better at floating on the perimeter and passing than going down low and banging, rebounding, and getting hard earned buckets. In a game where our shooting goes cold - you would think, pound inside, get Quinn going, and maybe get to the free throw line. But no - and I think some of that is coaching, but I think some of that is they know its not his game. In the A10 - Quinn is about 10 points and 5 rebounds kinda guy. Don't expect a lot more. And really - we don't need it when King is cooking. But when we play a team like VCU - who attacked the glass, sometimes it would be nice if we had some other than Bigelow to be tough down low.

3) No depth. Before every season we think we have depth. Then we realize - we don't have any. We get no production from our bench. Roche has regressed this season. And everyone else off the bench is just there to give someone 2 minutes to take a seat, get a water, and get back in the game. I am not expecting our bench to win games for us. But when you a cold shooting night - this is when you hope the bench can come in and somebody can hit a shot or get the team going. But we don't get it. VCU game - our bench gave us 0 points, 1 rebound and 3 turnovers. This will make us finishing in the top of the league that much more important as we will need the byes in the A10 tourney to make a run.

Again - not something to panic about, as usually we can mask these weaknesses or 1-2 of them on any given night. Lack of toughness - not a problem when we hit 3's, and King is scoring like normal. Lack of bench, no worries - we build a lead and don't need them anyways. But in the VCU game - these were all highlighted.

The true key here is King. I hate to pin it all on him, but as he goes UR will go. He is having an incredible and A10 POY type year up to this point, and if he continues to get about 20 a game in A10 play and UR finishes top 3 - he will be first team and get POY votes.

And yes - losing to VCU stinks, but to me - it only matters a lot if we miss our first two goals of every season. 1) Win the A10 regular season or tourney 2) Make the NCAA tourney. If we don't achieve any of those - then VCU becomes more significant.

 

[SpiderDad75]

What r team goals? I’ve never heard Moon articulate them. Beating vcu & at large bids should be among them but who the hell knows, maybe they’re only pie in the sky ones.

What do you think team goals are? To poop the bed at their rival? Because the coaches and the team couldn’t possibly have any. Idk maybe win the conf, win the conf tourney, and make the dance…why is this hard?

 

[SpiderGuy]

No reason to panic - this game just highlighted our weaknesses, which I think we already knew. The problem was they all hit at the same time in the same game - which when that occurs for any team, it will be tough to win. We had some good luck early, while we were cold and couldn't make a shot, neither could VCU. This kept the game close, but unfortunately in the 2nd half - our cold shooting continued, and VCU was able to hit more shots and be more timely near the end with their 3's and build a lead. Here's our weaknesses, which hopefully don't all get exaggerated in the same game again.

1) King - he has played great all season, especially in the A10. But we need him, in big games - to have a big game. Dayton - he didn't play great, but still got 17 for us, and go us over the hump for the win. This game, he was cold and could never get going. This is our biggest weakness. We are really dependent on him to get everything going. I don't expect him to have many of these games, cause he has not had a lot this year. But if he can't get us big points in big games - its an uphill battle.

2) Quinn is soft. Plain and simple. He is finesse player, who is much better at floating on the perimeter and passing than going down low and banging, rebounding, and getting hard earned buckets. In a game where our shooting goes cold - you would think, pound inside, get Quinn going, and maybe get to the free throw line. But no - and I think some of that is coaching, but I think some of that is they know its not his game. In the A10 - Quinn is about 10 points and 5 rebounds kinda guy. Don't expect a lot more. And really - we don't need it when King is cooking. But when we play a team like VCU - who attacked the glass, sometimes it would be nice if we had some other than Bigelow to be tough down low.

3) No depth. Before every season we think we have depth. Then we realize - we don't have any. We get no production from our bench. Roche has regressed this season. And everyone else off the bench is just there to give someone 2 minutes to take a seat, get a water, and get back in the game. I am not expecting our bench to win games for us. But when you a cold shooting night - this is when you hope the bench can come in and somebody can hit a shot or get the team going. But we don't get it. VCU game - our bench gave us 0 points, 1 rebound and 3 turnovers. This will make us finishing in the top of the league that much more important as we will need the byes in the A10 tourney to make a run.

Again - not something to panic about, as usually we can mask these weaknesses or 1-2 of them on any given night. Lack of toughness - not a problem when we hit 3's, and King is scoring like normal. Lack of bench, no worries - we build a lead and don't need them anyways. But in the VCU game - these were all highlighted.

The true key here is King. I hate to pin it all on him, but as he goes UR will go. He is having an incredible and A10 POY type year up to this point, and if he continues to get about 20 a game in A10 play and UR finishes top 3 - he will be first team and get POY votes.

And yes - losing to VCU stinks, but to me - it only matters a lot if we miss our first two goals of every season. 1) Win the A10 regular season or tourney 2) Make the NCAA tourney. If we don't achieve any of those - then VCU becomes more significant.

Really exceptional analysis. You nailed a lot here.

 

[GKiller]

What do you think team goals are? To poop the bed at their rival? Because the coaches and the team couldn’t possibly have any. Idk maybe win the conf, win the conf tourney, and make the dance…why is this hard?

If it’s so easy & obvious then no reason to be a secret really. Sorry if that upset u I was genuinely interested if beating vcu & AT LARGE bids r specific talked about goals. When u r 8-25 vs a revolving door of coaches vs. a 19-year coach in 1 place I can see the former being minimized. We’ve never won the conf & we r 3 for 18 in ncaa & had been picked 11th in league. It’s possible those things u say were more hopes than goals. Some teams legitimately have goals to improve or get a top 4 bye for instance. I thought this was an all in year myself but AT Large may not have been a team goal. I think a week ago at minimum it should have changed. But whether we talked about that specifically I have my doubts.

 

[SpiderDad75]

If it’s so easy & obvious then no reason to be a secret really. Sorry if that upset u I was genuinely interested if beating vcu & AT LARGE bids r specific talked about goals. When u r 8-25 vs a revolving door of coaches vs. a 19-year coach in 1 place I can see the former being minimized. We’ve never won the conf & we r 3 for 18 in ncaa & had been picked 11th in league. It’s possible those things u say were more hopes than goals. Some teams legitimately have goals to improve or get a top 4 bye for instance.

Oh ok then we should prob pack it up for the season then.

 

[UR80sfan]

If it’s so easy & obvious then no reason to be a secret really. Sorry if that upset u I was genuinely interested if beating vcu & AT LARGE bids r specific talked about goals. When u r 8-25 vs a revolving door of coaches vs. a 19-year coach in 1 place I can see the former being minimized. We’ve never won the conf & we r 3 for 18 in ncaa & had been picked 11th in league. It’s possible those things u say were more hopes than goals. Some teams legitimately have goals to improve or get a top 4 bye for instance. I thought this was an all in year myself but AT Large may not have been a team goal. I think a week ago at minimum it should have changed. But whether we talked about that specifically I have my doubts.

Mooney has actually done a terrific job over the past 5 years and will be in the running for A10 coach of the year this year. Over the past 5 years we have:

1. 2019-20 NCAA quality team
2. 2020-2021 had lowest AP ranking in history of the school at 19th, before 3 covid breaks killed our season, but still made NIT
3.2021-2022 NCAA appearance and beat Big ten Champ.
4. 2022-2023 After losing 2 of the best players in school history we had a down year
5. 2023-2024 16-6 and 1st place A10 with potential at NCAA or NIT

It has been a great time to be a Spider basketball fan!

 

[GKiller]

Oh ok then we should prob pack it up for the season then.

Idk where u got that. In hindsight it was a mistake responding to u directly about team goals. It’s been a topic b4. I’m sure my tone was off too I’m sorry. Next time I’ll respond independently.

I’m all in for the season…as always…I’ve just long had concerns about our vcu approach. And that game has huge effect on other goals. When u have the longest worst rivalry coach in our level or higher in likely the history of American sports I don’t gloss over it.

 

[GKiller]

Mooney has actually done a terrific job over the past 5 years and will be in the running for A10 coach of the year this year. Over the past 5 years we have:

1. 2019-20 NCAA quality team
2. 2020-2021 had lowest AP ranking in history of the school at 19th, before 3 covid breaks killed our season, but still made NIT
3.2021-2022 NCAA appearance and beat Big ten Champ.
4. 2022-2023 After losing 2 of the best players in school history we had a down year
5. 2023-2024 16-6 and 1st place A10 with potential at NCAA or NIT

It has been a great time to be a Spider basketball fan!

This might be a non sequitor. I was a little surprised to get into UR so I can’t be sure.