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TJ plays 23 minutes, we lose again, and again, and again

U

URSpider65

Nov 30, 2014
48
4
8
TJ scores 14 pts. in 23 minutes against VCU (yes he had 4 fouls-hasn't fouled out once all year), and we lose by 3. So many games lost by less than 5-6 points, that could have been different if TJ were played another 7-8 more minutes/game!!!! How many times this year has he 'exploded' to put us back into a game.
For the year, 23.3 minutes/game average, 51.4% field goal average, 41% 3 point average, 71% foul shot average, 11.4 pts. per game scoring.
I believe more substantial, steady playing time for TJ would have given this team a significant number of victories that were lost as CM continuously pulled TJ for a 'defensive specialist', and then relinquished the opportunity for the team to score, when UR recovered the ball and headed down the court. So many lost opportunities, devoid of victories with the minimal use of a kid who can score, and "knows where the basket resides".
Our team was better when TJ was in there; why can't CM and staff realize that which we, and the TV/radio announcers have proclaimed on several occasions this year.

TJ will be in better shape next year; I'm told he had some sort of illness early in the year that slowed him down. Additionally, did you notice that he played the entire year with a splint on one of his fingers on his right hand?

This team will be really good next year; suggest you get your reservations for NYC 2016 soon, and support them with your presence, as well as voice. KA will be missed, but I think we will play more team ball next year.
And, we could be back in NYC sooner than some think via the NIT.
 
TJ needs to be playing 30+ minutes a game next year, period. Whether it's lack of conditioning on his part or lack of coaching that prevented him from doing that this year, I'm not sure and I don't care. The situation needs to change next year.

That said, he did miss a few shots from in close yesterday that he normally makes. Had he made two of those, we win.

Still, had Taylor not turned the ball over 3 or 4 times (and had TJ been playing instead), we may also have won.
 
Any game that close could have a different outcome if one or two plays at any point in the game had been different.
 
30 minutes or 5 fouls, whichever comes first. Overtime games, add five minutes to the total
 
Our alternative to TJ this year got us 4 fouls , 4 turn overs, 3 bricks, 47% FT and 0 points. Shouldn't be a tough decision.
 
Originally posted by URSpider65:
TJ scores 14 pts. in 23 minutes against VCU (yes he had 4 fouls-hasn't fouled out once all year), and we lose by 3. So many games lost by less than 5-6 points, that could have been different if TJ were played another 7-8 more minutes/game!!!! How many times this year has he 'exploded' to put us back into a game.
For the year, 23.3 minutes/game average, 51.4% field goal average, 41% 3 point average, 71% foul shot average, 11.4 pts. per game scoring.
I believe more substantial, steady playing time for TJ would have given this team a significant number of victories that were lost as CM continuously pulled TJ for a 'defensive specialist', and then relinquished the opportunity for the team to score, when UR recovered the ball and headed down the court. So many lost opportunities, devoid of victories with the minimal use of a kid who can score, and "knows where the basket resides".
Our team was better when TJ was in there; why can't CM and staff realize that which we, and the TV/radio announcers have proclaimed on several occasions this year.

TJ will be in better shape next year; I'm told he had some sort of illness early in the year that slowed him down. Additionally, did you notice that he played the entire year with a splint on one of his fingers on his right hand?

This team will be really good next year; suggest you get your reservations for NYC 2016 soon, and support them with your presence, as well as voice. KA will be missed, but I think we will play more team ball next year.
And, we could be back in NYC sooner than some think via the NIT.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% with everything stated. I know there are variables here & there that went into his minutes off the court, but IMHO CM is too much a defensive minded coach, and this was a big part of the equation.

Next year TJ needs to be in the game more minutes. There has been discussion in other threads about who or what combination of players will pick up the slack for Kendall's points. We know for sure that TJ is a scorer. There is no denying that. Hope he gets additional playing time, as we'll need his scoring.
 
Originally posted by SpiderK:
Our alternative to TJ this year got us 4 fouls , 4 turn overs, 3 bricks, 47% FT and 0 points. Shouldn't be a tough decision.
Click to expand...
You're dismissing the glue and intangibles.
3dsmile.r191677.gif
 
Spider Guy, yes I am!!! By the way Seabiscuit is now a bottle of glue and intangibles!! :)
 
I think most of these posts are about the entire season, not just yesterday's game. Ta and KA certainly missed a bunch of layups all year, and TD and DT missed truckloads. Where Cline is concerned, the pluses FAR OUTWEIGH the minuses. If this team had a bunch of scorers, this discussion might not matter.
 
Perhaps the solution is for TJ to learn how to play defense without fouling. He needs to work on his defensive footwork.
 
Solution is for tj to play more and for Deion to play less, way less in my opinion. Tj has not fouled out all year, so to me he is not foul prone
 
Doesn't matter what you think or me. His coach decides. I somehow don't think Mooney wants to or tries to lose, do you?
 
I'll start by saying that I'd like TJ to play more minutes. I'll also agree that his defense is weaker, but I do think his O makes up for his D.

When you look at fouls per minute, he is second highest of the teams forwards/centers.

TJ, .09
TA, .07
DT, .12
TD, .089
ANO, .088

It's not a huge spread except for Deion. Deion draws a lot of tough assignments.

TJs number doesn't take into account two things:
1. TJ plays far more minutes on O than D which means his "FpM" would go up quite a bit with more minutes
2. He commits a significant number of fouls on offense still

He is definitely a foul out risk. Not saying we shouldn't ride him til that happens, but I suspect that's a big part of the pitch count he's on.
 
97, I think MW will take minutes from DT next year. MW should mean that we see less of TD and DT on the floor together. Both DT and TD are role players. I am not saying to not play them at all, but when both play together, our offense suffers. I also think MW could help get TJ more clean look from 3 because he can score off the block and shoot from outside.
 
Has DT ever been in the low post? I think if DT is strong and athletic like Coach says then he should. Simple post move is not so hard.I think also TJ next year has same minutes .
 
Coach, DT doesn't have good enough hands for the low post. He doesn't catch or handle the ball well. He also has trouble finding the basket when he has his back to it.
 
Coachfezz, I love your posts and respect your analysis and opinions. Don't you think Cline is more suited as a 4 than a 5? If so, then wouldn't you expect his fouling to go down if he is playing outside the paint? I really want to know your thoughts on this.
 
Coachfezz is the best.


I don't have a problem with DT being on the floor, per se. Nor do I have a problem with Davis on the floor, per se.

The problem is that they are both on the floor together much more than they should be. And that doesn't work out well for us on offense in any way, shape, or form.
 
Coach said in an interview Davis and Taylor are two of the best defenders he has coached at UR, so you have your answer in why they play together and the focus on D over O. Also said they make the system work well on O. But I agree with all of you that it puts tremendous pressure on others to score. Anthony had the ability to create his own shot and did, but not seeing others to be able to do the same.
 
i think Cline is a 4 , never wants to be a pivot 5 but is in difficult place because Coach tells him where to play and never I think fouls are a problem because Coach is playing him less than 25minutes all the time and will be next year also, We talked about big lineup when we first talked about Cline playing and see that it can work and be helping. In other times ,We have had defense problems before as in switching where small guard is posed up by a pivot, also by the many tmes in other years where we could not prevent dribble penetration and loved block the shot. So I think Cline minutes and talk about defense is not really why. I see the problem for him because if he scores many points in hlaf a game that is all the Coach needs for him so he sits, so it can cover up very small offense by others who play more minutes and Coach likes the defense. Coach wants so many points a game and works the defense I think.
I listen to CLine on the interviews and he is very smart basketball player and wanting to please. I say this next thing not to be picking on one player but when I watch Taylor play offense I do not see any offense effort . I know Coach plays Taylor like he is like a Dennis Rodman kind player but he not yet has shown he can rebound. I heard Coach say Taylor is probably the strongest player on the team. Why is this important I dont know because then he says Cline you must guard the pivot.. So yes I thin kCline is a 4 , but I do not think his defense in a particular is the reason for Coach Stopwatch for him. I always had value for the shooter and was thinking macthup zone or zone , average defense can be good enough to win.
This has been a very exciting year for our team and Coach did a good job getting ready for end of year. Please Cline do not do any bench press.
 
Coach, I like your points. To boil it down. I think TJ would drop 20 points on DT every night and DT would drop 4 points on TJ every night. Both would end with 4 fouls and 4 rebounds.
 
If Coach Mooney follows his pattern (which is HIGHLY LIKELY) then we will see more of Trey Davis and Deion Taylor next season. It might in the best interest of your health for many of you guys to warm to the idea.

Of course, this will mean uneven offensive play, substitution issues, wrong players on the floor for the wrong situations, scoring draughts, and all of the other issues that we saw this season.

This also means that the results (and frustrations) are most likely to look VERY much like they looked this year.

With nearly all of the first subs (Fore, Wood, Diekvoss, Johnson) being "first year" players, not at all confident that Mooney is going to be willing to make many adjustments at all.

I would like to see that Mooney has an open mind, integrates the youngsters masterfully, and improves significantly upon this year's product (It could be possible). Coaches history, preferences, patterns, and his struggles in-game from the bench do not give this a very strong chance of coming to fruition.

I hope that I am wrong about this, and by mid-year I hope that at least a dozen of you are able to call me out and shove crow down my throat.
 
Originally posted by SpiderK:
Coach, I like your points. To boil it down. I think TJ would drop 20 points on DT every night and DT would drop 4 points on TJ every night. Both would end with 4 fouls and 4 rebounds.
Click to expand...
laugh.r191677.gif
 
Originally posted by sdspider:
Coach said in an interview Davis and Taylor are two of the best defenders he has coached at UR, so you have your answer in why they play together and the focus on D over O. Also said they make the system work well on O. But I agree with all of you that it puts tremendous pressure on others to score. Anthony had the ability to create his own shot and did, but not seeing others to be able to do the same.
Click to expand...
Agree with all you say. It's too bad that in our most important game of the year which was vcu on Friday, it was the defense that lost the game for us. So valuing offense over defense bit us in the @&& when it mattered the most.
 
Originally posted by ur2K:

Originally posted by sdspider:
Coach said in an interview Davis and Taylor are two of the best defenders he has coached at UR, so you have your answer in why they play together and the focus on D over O. Also said they make the system work well on O. But I agree with all of you that it puts tremendous pressure on others to score. Anthony had the ability to create his own shot and did, but not seeing others to be able to do the same.
Click to expand...
Agree with all you say. It's too bad that in our most important game of the year which was vcu on Friday, it was the defense that lost the game for us. So valuing offense over defense bit us in the @&& when it mattered the most.
Click to expand...
Or if UR had 2 offense players on the court at the end of the half we might have kept a 5 point lead instead of them going into the lockeroom all pumped up.

Nothing was going to stop that NBA 3 barrage we saw on Friday that continued with them going 22-51 from 3PT territory combined against Davidson and Dayton. It sucks but they got hot at the right time.
 
Originally posted by Not-A-Homer:
If Coach Mooney follows his pattern (which is HIGHLY LIKELY) then we will see more of Trey Davis and Deion Taylor next season. It might in the best interest of your health for many of you guys to warm to the idea.

Of course, this will mean uneven offensive play, substitution issues, wrong players on the floor for the wrong situations, scoring draughts, and all of the other issues that we saw this season.

This also means that the results (and frustrations) are most likely to look VERY much like they looked this year.

With nearly all of the first subs (Fore, Wood, Diekvoss, Johnson) being "first year" players, not at all confident that Mooney is going to be willing to make many adjustments at all.

I would like to see that Mooney has an open mind, integrates the youngsters masterfully, and improves significantly upon this year's product (It could be possible). Coaches history, preferences, patterns, and his struggles in-game from the bench do not give this a very strong chance of coming to fruition.

I hope that I am wrong about this, and by mid-year I hope that at least a dozen of you are able to call me out and shove crow down my throat.
Click to expand...
I hope you're wrong, but if I had lay $100.00 down, I'd say you're going to be proven correct. Our history & patterns are good indicators to predict the future. There's not a lot of deviation.
 
Homer, one point that might be encouraging for you is that mooney saw a lot of value in TJ, enough to start him for the last 10+ games. Fore, wood and diekvoss will have been in the program a year like TJ and thus have earned some cred with mooney, hopefully positive.

i wouldn't rule any of them out, I suspect all have learned our system enough to be looked at as more than first year guys.
 
Don't forget we lose 20 points a night and an Excellent ball handler. We don't score a lot as it is, so that has to be replaced.
 
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