Soulis hits the portal
- Thread starter MDspider8
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I think one ncaa tournament visit every four years is my absolute minimum and what we’ve sort of heard from the university (only BobB was willing to utter this ofc). So by that logic, we have to go next year. It feels like an incredibly low probability given this years results and the state of the roster.
But yes, we have different expectations.
The last 4 seasons, VCU is the only A-10 team with more than 1 NCAA bid:
VCU 2 (23,25).
Dayton (24).
Duquesne (24).
Richmond (22).
Davidson (22).
That's it for A-10 bids. So, Davidson also needs to go next year to meet your criteria, Loyola went in 22 before they joined the A-10 so they need to go to, while every other A-10 team did not meet your criteria the past 4 years.
I don’t have expectations for other universities, just mine.
Exactly Tbone. This is the thought process that drives me crazy with team mooney. Let's find other under achievers and compare to them. Let's make excuses. Let's not shoot for the moon.
Philly Bob did utter the 1 in 4 MINIMUM. But he would never do it again for fear of getting bitch slapped by Big Hat No Cattle Hardt.
Without dispute we had institutional expectations of going to NCAA at higher frequency than we had been starting from Tarrant. We’ve gone less. They’d never utter that now either.
Our admin moves the goalposts as well as or better than VT4700 and spiderstudent17
Yet Mooney will self identify us as 1 of the best basketball programs in the nation. We have 1 NCAA in 14 years. And the Mooney backers want to replace the entire roster.
Without dispute we had institutional expectations of going to NCAA at higher frequency than we had been starting from Tarrant. We’ve gone less. They’d never utter that now either.
Our admin moves the goalposts as well as or better than VT4700 and spiderstudent17
Yet Mooney will self identify us as 1 of the best basketball programs in the nation. We have 1 NCAA in 14 years. And the Mooney backers want to replace the entire roster.
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Make it make sense. And edited to add: "Not Mooney's fault" . Instead it is the fault of ........... the fans, the admin, the conference, the leafy campus, NIL, etc etc etc etc.
Exactly TBone. It isn't a relative comparison vs other A10 teams. It's a comparison vs ourself. And we're losing. Sorry but 1 every 6 1/3 years doesn't cut it. And as previously mentioned by GKiller, the 1 in 14 years is a joke. Yet here we are entering another season, and does one person actually believe we have a chance next year of making the NCAA?
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Another question that I think would require incarceration at Guantanamo Bay for the Mooneyites to answer--clearly you are ok with one NCAA every ten years, one NCAA every 15 years. What is your breaking point before you would admit that some changes should be made? One in 20 years? 25 years???
1 in 50 would peak my interest.
Signed
Team Mooney
Signed
Team Mooney
Why does it drive you so crazy that someone might have a different thought process than you about this? Why can't we just have differing opinions here?
Game, set, match. I just don't understand how anyone is OK with this.
Hey, we are better than the dregs - - what more could we expect?
I think it’s very fair to make this comparison. We are literally in the same conference so it’s the most fair apples to apples way of looking at our success in the overall NCAA landscape. We can strive to be the best and have goals of being a top program in the country and also fair to use a barometer of success of how others are doing in our conference - since they are our peers in basketball - as a relative benchmark. In this case, VT accurately points out that no other A10 team other than VCU has had better success in this last 4 year stretch than us. The lack of A10 success as a whole can be seen as a systemic issue within the conference or indicative of the wider disparities P5s are having. It doesn’t make sense to compare us to Clemson, Vanderbilt, or Butler. They have greater reputation, financial resources than us. Plus, 2 of the teams VT compared us with was Dayton and VCU. Aren’t those teams we constantly hear about on here on how they can have success in A10 so why shouldn’t we? The street goes both ways. There are a heck of a lot of other teams in this conference in which we have had more success than they have.
Comparing ourselves to vcu is valid and I would argue necessary. They are in the same city we are. They are purportedly our top rival. If they were located in Nebraska, maybe we look at our last 20 seasons differently, but they aren't and we shouldn't. The reality is that we need to hold ourselves to that standard, not to the standard of LaSalle or Fordham or Duquesne.
If anyone can give me reasons as to why we are not capable of doing what vcu and Dayton regularly do -- win 20+ games basically every year, finish in the top 3 or 4 in the conference and make the NCAA tournament -- I'm all ears. If you can't, then it would seem you agree that we should aspire to that standard.
If anyone can give me reasons as to why we are not capable of doing what vcu and Dayton regularly do -- win 20+ games basically every year, finish in the top 3 or 4 in the conference and make the NCAA tournament -- I'm all ears. If you can't, then it would seem you agree that we should aspire to that standard.
They've also won 21+ games six times in that stretch and had a potential national championship season and second NCAA berth washed away by covid, as you know. And they were nationally ranked in four of those eight seasons.
Well, this board has consistently told us 2 things. 1. NCAA tourney appearances are all that matters. Even today, numerous posts about this. And, don't forget, our 23 win, 15-3 A-10 regular season just 2 seasons ago has been called a failure on here. 2. 2020 didn't count.
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Valid point. Dayton has also averaged nearly 23 wins per season over the past 8 years. UR has averaged 17. Further Dayton has made the Big Dance twice as much during the Mooney era than we have (6 to 3). I know I would be a lot more optimistic about our program if we had 3 more NCAA appearances during this time.
Lastly, I know this is a sensitive topic but Dayton didn't get to run back the Covid cancelled year like we did. They were going to be a number 1 seed that year and had a legit chance for a Final Four/National Championship. We of course brought all of our players back for 2 more years, Obi Toppin went to the NBA off that team and 2 other starters graduated.
LOL. Read my last post. Funny how you guys count things sometimes and don't count them other times. Also funny how the bottom line of NCAA bids doesn’t mean as much when talking other teams.
As 97 said, Dayton's guys didn't get a do-over from the covid year. Our guys did. That's the difference.
V,
I really don’t care what the other teams are doing except in OOC to see if they are helping the league.
UR needs to stand its own and that just isn’t happening.
And yes NCAA bids are the bottom line matters.
Our guys could have also transferred and played for P5 programs instead but they chose to stay. That’s got to mean something too.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Funny how you think the entire roster should be thrown in the garbage but also think that Emperor Mooney deserves to be here another 20 years.
#DecadesOfMooney
Momentum is a big thing. Success begets success. Not easy to just turn it on, otherwise every school would do it.
But yeah, it is pretty obvious after 20 years that Mooney cannot maintain success and build momentum. I am hoping we see the women’s program capitalize on their current success and build some momentum
Let me see if I understand here. We should not compare ourselves to other A10 teams, except we should compare ourselves with Dayton and VCU. Only NCAA appearances matter and even though we have the same as Dayton in the last 8 years, it doesn’t matter for them because they had good seasons without NCAA tournaments, but our good seasons without NCAAs don’t count. Dayton’s COVID year should get credit but not ours because their guys didn’t have a chance to come back. Yet we shouldn’t give credit to our 2022 A10 tournament championship because the only reason we won it is due to those players coming back for their extra COVID year (would not have happened otherwise). Got it.
If I'm a Dayton fan, I'm not really too happy with Anthony Grant's 1 NCAA bid in 8 years. Not as unhappy though as Mooney's 1 NCAA bid in 14 years though. Also, Dayton won 38 more games than we did over the past 8 years. So their fans experienced the joy of victory 38 times more than ours did over a similar time span.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Almost brings a tear to your eye seeing the Mooneyites version of Batman and Robin in here fighting side by side defending their master
Dayton and Richmond each get credit for one covid-affected NCAA appearance. Ours came in 2022 because the players on that team would have already graduated had they not gotten an extra covid year. Dayton's came in 2020, because Obi Toppin was so good that he went to the NBA and therefore they didn't get to run it back the way we did. They clearly were going to be a 1-seed in that tournament, whereas we were very much on the bubble.
Dayton also had the chance to somewhat run it back with Obi returning and he chose to leave. Not our problem if that happens. Our guys could’ve left too. Granted, not the NBA but definitely other P5. Yet we didn’t. Everyone was also operating under the same rules of COVID eligible bonus year and we ended up winning. That deserves credit too.
Of course they "could" have, but the point is that key guys from the 2020 Dayton team did not come back, so they lost what was clearly a once-in-a-generation chance and a clear NCAA bid. All of our key guys came back. If they hadn't, we clearly would not have made the 2022 tournament.
In all fairness the NCAA has changed the rules so that mid-major at larges almost don't exist.
Decided to look it up because I was curious. I looked at the last game they played that season in 2019-2020 to see who was a meaningful contributor on that team. I counted 7 players who got 10 or more min that game against GW as key guys to the team (although some were certainly more key than others). 5 out of those 7 had an opportunity to come back the next year. In fact 4 of those 5 did except Obi who went to the NBA. My conclusion from this. 1) they did have a chance to practically run it back. Not our problem that Obi chose to not return. 2) That Dayton team that returned 4 out 7 contributors in their #1 seed season went 14-10 and 9-6 in conference the next year. So maybe that 2019-2020 was a flash in a pan kind of season or Obi was really that good.
Dayton vs George Washington Box Score (PDF) - University of Dayton Athletics
Dayton vs George Washington Box Score (PDF)
daytonflyers.com
2020-21 Men's Basketball Roster - University of Dayton Athletics
The official 2020-21 Men's Basketball Roster for the University of Dayton Flyers
daytonflyers.com
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
yeah but we weren't getting them long before these rule changes took affect 🤷♂️
It's funny the level some will go on here to praise other teams while pissing on ours.
Not sure why you are drawing the line at "he could have come back." The point is that he did not come back because he was a national POY candidate, and obviously they were not as good a team without him, which should go without saying They clearly had an NCAA bid taken from them because of covid in 2020. We may or may not have, but since all our meaningful players got an extra year, we were able to realize our NCAA bid potential two years later whereas they were not.Decided to look it up because I was curious. I looked at the last game they played that season in 2019-2020 to see who was a meaningful contributor on that team. I counted 7 players who got 10 or more min that game against GW as key guys to the team (although some were certainly more key than others). 5 out of those 7 had an opportunity to come back the next year. In fact 4 of those 5 did except Obi who went to the NBA. My conclusion from this. 1) they did have a chance to practically run it back. Not our problem that Obi chose to not return. 2) That Dayton team that returned 4 out 7 contributors in their #1 seed season went 14-10 and 9-6 in conference the next year. So maybe that 2019-2020 was a flash in a pan kind of season or Obi was really that good.
Dayton vs George Washington Box Score (PDF) - University of Dayton Athletics
Dayton vs George Washington Box Score (PDF)
2020-21 Men's Basketball Roster - University of Dayton Athletics
The official 2020-21 Men's Basketball Roster for the University of Dayton Flyers
Not praising or pissing, simply calling the reality what it was. Are you suggesting that had Golden, Cayo, Sherod and Gilyard not been on the team in 2022, we would have had a bid that year AND a bid in 2020?
Would it have made a difference for you if we were a lock in the NCAA tournament like Dayton was, but we never got to play an NCAA tournament game. Would you have counted this as an NCAA tournament appearance in your eyes if that were the case?
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