Secret Scrimmage vs ECU 90-90

[spider23]

Ok, it was just a scrimmage, but guess what, what else are we going to talk about?

Some positives and/or interesting notes:

AP - 4 / 5 from 3. Like the sounds of this. 0 rebounds, but hey maybe Beagle and Walz are grabbing them.
Tanner - 3 / 4 from 3. 5 rebounds. Good stuff. Combined with AP that is some good shooting.
Beagle 23 minutes. Walz 16 minutes. Combined for 18 points and 11 boards and 6 assists. That is some good production from the center position. Wonder if any minutes together.
Hunt - 3/5 from 3 and Dusan 3/3 from 3. Roche and GW3 with some production. GW3 8 points in 11 minutes on good shooting.
Tyne 3/10 overall and 0/3 from 3 continuing trend from last season so far. Graham with 11 minutes.

 

[97spiderfan]

Ok, it was just a scrimmage, but guess what, what else are we going to talk about?

Some positives and/or interesting notes:

AP - 4 / 5 from 3. Like the sounds of this. 0 rebounds, but hey maybe Beagle and Walz are grabbing them.
Tanner - 3 / 4 from 3. 5 rebounds. Good stuff. Combined with AP that is some good shooting.
Beagle 23 minutes. Walz 16 minutes. Combined for 18 points and 11 boards and 6 assists. That is some good production from the center position. Wonder if any minutes together.
Hunt - 3/5 from 3 and Dusan 3/3 from 3. Roche and GW3 with some production. GW3 8 points in 11 minutes on good shooting.
Tyne 3/10 overall and 0/3 from 3 continuing trend from last season so far. Graham with 11 minutes.

That is some really good shooting. On the other side of the ball though, we also gave up 90 points to them, which means that our defense probably needs some work.

 

[gcarter52]

That is some really good shooting. On the other side of the ball though, we also gave up 90 points to them, which means that our defense probably needs some work.

I remember a few years ago with Gilly and Grant doing the first few games of the season we averaged and gave up over 90+ then it leveled off. We are still finding ourselves. I’m not worried yet!

 

[spider23]

Good to see Roche is playing - played 18 minutes which was 6th most on team. No Soulis, so injury is apparently persisting. Hope he is 100% healthy at some point early in the season. No McGlothin or Robinson?

Too lazy to add up the minutes, but guessing the posted box score was only for the first 4 quarters? If so, did Soulis, McGlothin, or Robinson play in the 5th quarter?

 

[spiderman]

That is some really good shooting. On the other side of the ball though, we also gave up 90 points to them, which means that our defense probably needs some work.

agreed. my biggest concern going from last year's team to this one is the defense. this score doesn't make me feel better.

AP, Tanner, Hunt and Dusan combining to go 13-17 from 3 is ridiculous ... but shooting like that should be enough to win. how often can we repeat that?

 

[Section9.RowD]

Good to see Roche is playing - played 18 minutes which was 6th most on team. No Soulis, so injury is apparently persisting. Hope he is 100% healthy at some point early in the season. No McGlothin or Robinson?

Too lazy to add up the minutes, but guessing the posted box score was only for the first 4 quarters? If so, did Soulis, McGlothin, or Robinson play in the 5th quarter?

Seems my Robinson starting odds plummeted big time over the weekend ..

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

agreed. my biggest concern going from last year's team to this one is the defense. this score doesn't make me feel better.

AP, Tanner, Hunt and Dusan combining to go 13-17 from 3 is ridiculous ... but shooting like that should be enough to win. how often can we repeat that?

One scrimmage sample size here, so I’m not taking anything as set in stone just yet. I also know exactly nothing about ECU or what their strengths are, or if we run any kind of scout ahead of a scrimmage? Also how did ECU score so much, where did they attack UR’s defense?

If we don’t make any adjustments and keep allowing teams to run up scores as we progress, then that is an issue. We may well look to just outscore teams this year via an emphasis on offensive firepower, but to do so you need at least some stops.

Lot of guys getting first real run with UR - including Tanner and Graham really - so I’m far more generous now than if these guys were all here for 2+ years already.

 

[spiderman]

not that preseason ranking mean much but Torvik has ECU #128 and Blue Ribbon has them 5th in the AAC.
not a power but they're not a pushover either. on the bright side, we lit up a solid team. I bet they're concerned about their defense now too.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

if they shot 75% from 2, that to me indicates they made a lot of layups/dunks/shots at the rim. No one shoots 75% on high mid range volume. So either we allowed a lot of dribble penetration, didn't protect the rim at all, or both. Both of those begin with 1v1 defending on the perimeter.

 

[spider23]

Brooklyn, yes I noticed that too on the 2P % for ECU. That is very concerning. Between the score and that stat, that is not helping with my concerns on defense. Absolutely cannot expect to shoot that well most games. Defense carries, but shooting not necessarily.

 

[urmite]

So busy in existing threads didn’t see this one until now.

6’1” Felton going 6 of 9 from 2
6’4” Riley 5 of 7
Not Sure about CJ Walker, there are multiple
But if from OSU then NBA then ECU I would feel better about 10 of 12…

 

[MDspider8]

Loving all the Tanner buzz. If he’s going to start at the 3, his only real competition for minutes will be Roche, and I’m hoping he gets some leeway to learn and grow compared to what we saw with Noyes last year. Hopefully our cushy non conference schedule will allow for that. Tanner has the opportunity to grow into a do it all-guy and X factor for us (good shooter, size & athleticism to be a good defender and contribute on the boards).

 

[urmite]

Loving all the Tanner buzz. If he’s going to start at the 3, his only real competition for minutes will be Roche, and I’m hoping he gets some leeway to learn and grow compared to what we saw with Noyes last year. Hopefully our cushy non conference schedule will allow for that. Tanner has the opportunity to grow into a do it all-guy and X factor for us (good shooter, size & athleticism to be a good defender and contribute on the boards).

If he is going to average 3 of 4 from 3 and 5 rebounds and 3 blocks every 22 minutes, he may be our 4…

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

So, just parsing all the info from the two threads to put pieces together.

Starters: Hunt, Tyne, Tanner, Nescovic, Walz
Backups mentioned (I didn't read article, don't have RTD access): GW3, Graham, Roche, AP, Beagle
Not mentioned: Soulis, Robinson, McGlothin, B. Artis (injured - DNP?)

Do we know if the groups were mingled and how much? Tough to tell by the fragmented minutes played. I would certainly have defensive questions about the 2nd group playing all together with the only known entity (Roche) not being known for defense, and all the others basically new to UR floortime and playing together in a game. First group should have more defensive cohesion with Nescovic the only newcomer and Tanner having had a year in the system. Presumably (except for Walz) the starters would have gotten more run during the first 4 quarters but any word on these types of things?

 

[spider23]

JOC article mentioned B. Artis out with injury, but should be ready for opener I believe?

Wondering whoever saw the intrasquad scrimmage, if Glou played more like wing or interior player. Or does he seem to have the footspeed to cover smaller players anyway. I am hoping that Tanner's competitions is more Glou at the wing.

Again, between the complete unknown of Tanner and Dusan on Defense at the forward positions, combined with the lack of size/length to bother shooters of Tyne/Hunt - worried on defense. Looks like our Assist / TO ratio was pretty good. But wow on the FG % by ECU.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Coaching is certainly a big factor in defense, but another - arguably just as important if not more important - factor is the individual/team mentality of defense. As a player, you almost have to take it personally when someone out muscles you for a rebound or drives right past you for a lay-up. There needs to be a fire and mindset that even if all else fails that night (miss every shot, turn the ball over, etc.) that tenacity and physicality on defense is always going to be there. Hearing Walz mention rebounding/physicality being more of a focus for the team and that the intra-squad scrimmage was physical is a good sign that points in that direction, but we cannot allow any team to shoot 70%+ from the field against us and expect to win the game.

What I love about defense compared to offense is that, in my eyes, defense is 80% toughness and 20% coaching. You can’t teach grit, tenacity, and a desire to play with that chip on your shoulder where no one is going to bully/embarrass you on the court.

 

[spider23]

What I love about defense compared to offense is that, in my eyes, defense is 80% toughness and 20% coaching. You can’t teach grit, tenacity, and a desire to play with that chip on your shoulder where no one is going to bully/embarrass you on the court.

The other piece of defense is you have to have some athletic ability.

Will say I thought Bigs, Harris, and Dji probably had as good a combo of that mentality, length and athleticism as anyone we have this year so far. I think Hunt and Tyne have the ability and mentality, but will be affected at times by taller guards and switches. We really need Dusan/Glou/Tanner to bring that mentality. That could be a make or break from finishing 8th or 2nd in the A10.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

Loving all the Tanner buzz. If he’s going to start at the 3, his only real competition for minutes will be Roche, and I’m hoping he gets some leeway to learn and grow compared to what we saw with Noyes last year. Hopefully our cushy non conference schedule will allow for that. Tanner has the opportunity to grow into a do it all-guy and X factor for us (good shooter, size & athleticism to be a good defender and contribute on the boards).

I’m hoping he gets some leeway to learn and grow compared to what we saw with Noyes last year.

Huh? He was given the starting job out of camp and did exactly 0 with it. Speaking of zeroes, he scored 0 in two of the games he started. In those 7 games, he committed a total of 3 fouls. By the way, most of the keyboard jockeys on this website, were clamoring from Dji to start from game #2. No offense to Noyes, but he reaped what he sowed (or didn't sow). We were a better team w/ Dji starting and Harris into the rotation. (who by the way wasn't in the rotation first 7 games...barely)

 

[MDspider8]

I’m hoping he gets some leeway to learn and grow compared to what we saw with Noyes last year.

Huh? He was given the starting job out of camp and did exactly 0 with it. Speaking of zeroes, he scored 0 in two of the games he started. In those 7 games, he committed a total of 3 fouls. By the way, most of the keyboard jockeys on this website, were clamoring from Dji to start from game #2. No offense to Noyes, but he reaped what he sowed (or didn't sow). We were a better team w/ Dji starting and Harris into the rotation. (who by the way wasn't in the rotation first 7 games...barely)

I think I phrased things poorly - wasn’t trying to say Noyes deserved time over Dji after those first few games. Dji was clearly the better option and it was evident to everybody from the start.

I guess I was trying to say I hope that Mooney doesn’t have to resort to benching Tanner if he struggles early, because I think his development will be critical for us. Maybe the Noyes comparison wasn’t the best one to make.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

Congrats to Spider23 who somehow gleaned enough information out of a stat sheet of a game--- that he didn't watch, doesn't know anyone who did and that doesn't count---to come up with 11 posts in a little over 8 hours. critiquing our offense, defense, scouting ,etc.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

I think I phrased things poorly - wasn’t trying to say Noyes deserved time over Dji after those first few games. Dji was clearly the better option and it was evident to everybody from the start.

I guess I was trying to say I hope that Mooney doesn’t have to resort to benching Tanner if he struggles early, because I think his development will be critical for us. Maybe the Noyes comparison wasn’t the best one I

 

[spiderman]

I believe you recruit defense. I've never seen a great college defender that wasn't a great athlete. (I've seen good ones ... not great). you've got to be ultra quick laterally. long arms is a huge plus. most really good defenders are a +4 minimum (wing span is 4 inches or more longer than height). and plus strength particularly for interior defenders.

athleticism gives you the defensive potential. intesity is always there with the great ones. but you have to have both. I think Roche has the mentality/intensity. but without the lateral and vertical athleticism you can't be great. you can't stay infront of the better D1 athletes. and if you can't, that forces too much help. an over-helping defense can't be great.

we didn't teach Dji, Bigs or Harris to be strong defenders. that was already there. the athleticism and intesity were there.

we'll see if the replacements have it. 90 points isn't promising if that total was in regulation but it was just one scrimmage.

 

[8legs1dream]

Congrats to Spider23 who somehow gleaned enough information out of a stat sheet of a game--- that he didn't watch, doesn't know anyone who did and that doesn't count---to come up with 11 posts in a little over 8 hours. critiquing our offense, defense, scouting ,etc.

Maybe you should Lurk more.

 

[Eight Legger]

You heard the man: No more discussion about this team or season until or unless you have witnessed something with your OWN EYES. Mods, shut down all offending threads, please.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

I think I phrased things poorly - wasn’t trying to say Noyes deserved time over Dji after those first few games. Dji was clearly the better option and it was evident to everybody from the start.

I guess I was trying to say I hope that Mooney doesn’t have to resort to benching Tanner if he struggles early, because I think his development will be critical for us. Maybe the Noyes comparison wasn’t the best one to make.

i would guess if Tanner puts up Aiden -like numbers in 7 games (7 games is25% of the season) a change would probably be warranted.

 

[spiderman]

that one Noyes dunk was pretty freakin' sick though.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

You heard the man: No more discussion about this team or season until or unless you have witnessed something with your OWN EYES. Mods, shut down all offending threads, please.

You have a Kamala level sense of humor.....

 

[spider23]

Congrats to Spider23 who somehow gleaned enough information out of a stat sheet of a game--- that he didn't watch, doesn't know anyone who did and that doesn't count---to come up with 11 posts in a little over 8 hours. critiquing our offense, defense, scouting ,etc.

Thank you sir or mam. I do appreciate the kudos. Guessing you noticed when, again with very little visual proof, past years during our very long NCAA drought - I pointed out huge gaping holes on the roster. And was proven correct by the pudding on the court. Will say this roster has much more potential than most of those, so I am optimistic. But will say very disconcerting that I have been worried about our defense on this board for a couple of weeks, and the first scrimmage I see VISUAL STATISTICAL PROOF, it shows our defense was a turnstile. So you keep being you and let's hope it can be corrected.

 

[spider23]

and I am wondering what my critiques of our offense and scouting were. My god you are pulling stuff out of the air, or assigning other critiques to me. Must be worried mooniocrity is raring its ugly head????

 

[spider23]

Effing 75% from two. What did you see at the scrimmage to calm the fears that somehow ECU just got lucky from 2??? I am waiting, very patiently. I will check the board later when I am able. But not sure how to sugar coat that one???

 

[Section9.RowD]

Thank you sir or mam. I do appreciate the kudos. Guessing you noticed when, again with very little visual proof, past years during our very long NCAA drought - I pointed out huge gaping holes on the roster. And was proven correct by the pudding on the court. Will say this roster has much more potential than most of those, so I am optimistic. But will say very disconcerting that I have been worried about our defense on this board for a couple of weeks, and the first scrimmage I see VISUAL STATISTICAL PROOF, it shows our defense was a turnstile. So you keep being you and let's hope it can be corrected.

Thank you for your contributions ... the more discussion and interest in Spider basketball through the good and not so good is better

 

[spider23]

Sorry for the semi rants. I am optimistic, but just cracks me up when this poster shows up to defend the defense after giving up 75% on 2s. That is NBA all star level defense.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

that one Noyes dunk was pretty freakin' sick though.

the dunk was the previous year. Def. his UR career highlight, along with the rest of that game at SJU.

agree that first step and speed/quickness/athleticism accounts for the ability to be a good defender - quick-twitch reflexes, essentially.

Desire and commitment to defending is the other aspect, but toughness is barely three IMO. In HS maybe you could be a good defender by being tough, but if you can't stop first step blow-bys on the perimeter as a guard or wing, you'll get exposed in a flash at the college level. JayNel didn't seem to have that defensive first step, here or at VCU and there was nowhere for him to hide. He could have been the toughest guy on the court but he wasn't stopping King last year, ever.

 

[urmite]

The most interesting defender to me was Kratzer. Not the most athletic but held some pretty impressive players to single digits…

Next might be Terry Connolly…

Any other unexpected defenders?

 

[spider23]

Mite, I would put Gonzo in that category. He was not elite quickness or hops but he was always locked in. Butler too last couple years.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Mite, I would put Gonzo in that category. He was not elite quickness or hops but he was always locked in. Butler too last couple years.

Gonzo was a tough defender especially in some marquee games like Xavier. Cayo had quick lateral movement and
defended a lot of different positions.

 

[97spiderfan]

You heard the man: No more discussion about this team or season until or unless you have witnessed something with your OWN EYES. Mods, shut down all offending threads, please.

In other words, please stop talking about the MBB program on the MBB message board. And if you do discuss something I don't approve of, I will tell you so in the most assholey way possible.

 

[Dudeness]

I gottta be honest, I didnt see JOC at the scrimmage. The article could be 100 percent written by a distributed box score. I dont get the secret nature of this to then release stats.

The fifth quarter was 100 percent guys that didnt play in the first four. And UR won it handily. Q1 and Q3 were pretty even. Q2 UR got hot from 3 and stretched it out late. ECU's coach was coaching like it was the final four...he was arguing about rules they made up and agreed to pregame, and was fouling late to "win". Was pretty ridiculous. 90-90 sounds about right for four quarters. Scores were wiped after each quarter but no way it was tied if the fifth Q was included.

No clue what the box score says, but offensive rebounding was a plus. Glou more a wing than interior. Tanner's shot didnt look pretty, but he hit three 3s. Complete defensive liability. To be fair, no names on the back of practice jerseys and I didn't have a roster in front of me, so hard to be specific on all.

 

[spider23]

Good stuff Dudeness! Thanks for the f/u report.

Good to hear about the offensive rebounding. That 90-90 was assuming inclusive of only the 4 quarters. My assumption would be that Robinson and McGlothin played the 5th quarter, based on your first post?

I think key will be defining that third guard / wing forward that can score and......play defense.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

New philosophy: pound the offensive glass as a tactic to limit the opponent's number of offensive possessions, and minimize our defensive liabilities. Adaptation!