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Round 2 of Philly Phun- St Joe's Game Thread

It’s impossible to find minutes for a promising young player when we’re trying to play two centers at the same time and running Burton into the ground playing almost 40 minutes a night. It’s all part of the grand plan to win 5 games in Brooklyn next week.
 
I'm too lazy to look up how many threes the Hawks were averaging per game, but I feel pretty good about the fact that it was less than the 11 we allowed. So yet again, we just give away a ton of outside points for no reason.
8.7 made per game.

11 tonight.

126.4% of norm.
 
We bring out the best in opposing teams’ 3 pointers. Like plenty of other games, too many were uncontested. Nothing new here.
 
One more thing to mention about tonight's game. Randolph, much like Noyes, showed once again that he has promise. Did he make some mistakes, yes. Does he have a few rough edges, yes. But, he also showed that he brings a lot of positives.

To me, it is obvious that Randolph and Bailey are FAR ahead of Nelson at this point in their collective careers. Based on playing time and opportunity, the coaching staff decision-makers do not agree. Nelson gets far more opportunity, but produces much less positive results.

Complete coaching malpractice.
 
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One more thing to mention about tonight's game. Randolph, much like Noyes, showed once again that he has promise. Did he make some mistakes, yes. Does he have a few rough edges, yes. But, he also showed that he brings a lot of positives.

To me, it is obvious that Randolph and Bailey are FAR ahead of Nelson at this point in their collective careers. Based on playing time and opportunity, the coaching staff decision-makers do not agree. Nelson gets far more opportunity, but produces much less positive results.

Complete coaching malpractice.
Nelson did some good things in the second half getting inside. He did so with purpose to score or drop dimes. Need more of that.

Lots of work needed on defensive end still.
 
It’s impossible to find minutes for a promising young player when we’re trying to play two centers at the same time and running Burton into the ground playing almost 40 minutes a night. It’s all part of the grand plan to win 5 games in Brooklyn next week.
It is making sense now why we haven’t played Noyes much this year. He is a secret weapon we were hiding until Brooklyn. We are getting him a few minutes now to warm him up for the tournament.
 
Got to watch my first in-person game of the season and a couple things surprised me.

First, the good:
1. Randolph has really matured since seeming panicked last year whenever he had the ball. He was in control and had good form on his shots. I think he will be a productive starter for us next year.
2. Noyes. Why hasn’t he played earlier? Good effort to deny his man on defense, made a 3, and great athleticism demonstrated with that dunk.
3. Nelson. Wasn’t very good, but wasn’t as bad as I’ve seen him in some games. Had more energy than most of his teammates but needs to hit the close range baskets and improve his D.

Now for the bad:
1. Quinn. Oh my lord. I didn’t realize how incompetent he is on the offensive end. They didn’t guard him more than five feet away from the basket and yet he still only took one jump shot, which he made. He should have taken 10. His move of backing in and then throwing up a hook shot was so predictable. Who is working with this guy?
2. Gus. Just gives you next to nothing. Hesitant in his jumpers and a couple didn’t come close to going in. No offense whatsoever. Did put forth effort on defense, but I’m sure if the game was close he would have fouled a guy at the end of the game with no time left on the clock.
3. Bigelow. Only says he turned the ball over once, but a couple more balls bounced off his hands out of bounds off rebounds. He didn’t help us.
4. Burton. For the first quarter of the game, the ball may have touched his hands twice. He was playing poorly before the collision. Couldn’t hit a shot, lost a couple rebounds he should have had. Just disappointing. Not the star we hoped he’d be. He’s better off going somewhere else next year to develop his game under different coaching.
5. Roche. Three shots and made one. Hardly noticed he was out there.
6. Grace. Surprised how ineffective he was. He sat out much of the game as Richmond went smaller and was unable to get…
7. Rebounds. We were outsized and outmuscled. Their guys wanted it more and looked bigger than all of our guys.
8. Shooting. We turned it on when it became a blowout, but otherwise stunk from the outside and has 2 points in the first 5 minutes. The Hawks couldn’t miss.
9. Coaching. Thomas looked lost out there. Some bad calls and he would just hold out his hands. No fire whatsoever.

Bottom line: SJU played harder, shot better, rebounded better, and defended better. You can’t win playing like we did tonight. Really really disappointing to watch and definitely not worth the money (aside from the Noyes dunk).
 
PA, some good observations. Quinn, particularly looked really bad. Would back down then slop up some kind of flip shot from 8 to 10 feet away. Earlier in the season it was reported TJ was in some working with him.

Agree Randolph took a step forward this year. Seems like a good bench guy on a very good a10 team, not a starter though. Not a Brothers/Francis/Gonzo/Blair/Anthony type 35 minute starter, yet anyway.
 
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Your Fired!!!!

Just trying to help out.

I said Noyes made the game interesting, then proceeded to fall asleep one minute into first half, missing several minutes of game time. So I had that going for me.
Thank you. I'll be moving on. Guess I'll root for wife's team now. They aren't without their issues but they have a real coach, Tony Bennett, and they play defense. I still hate VCU.
 
I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. But I do want to echo that Noyes was a bright spot and add to the "where has he been all season and why" sentiment.

Also appreciate (as mentioned above) that Thomas gave Arizin some time against his cousin. Nice touch in an otherwise bleak night.
 
I called for a lot more Noyes early in the season and some scoffed. The boy should have been playing all year! Does he have a few "areas of needed improvement," sure. But, that is one of the reasons that he needed to be on the floor more.

Like so many players before him, Mooney has mismanaged Noyes' year to the max. Unfortunately, Noyes didn't get to help the team as much as he could have, and, Noyes himself lost virtually an entire year of "game" development. Because of the poor coaching decision, Noyes now has to use next year to gain experience and round out the rough edges. Had that been accomplished this year, next year could have been more impactful and less developmental.

Complete coaching malpractice.
This is certainly a Mooney coaching weakness- player development. The other glaring weakness is stubbornness- refusal to adjust.
 
One more thing to mention about tonight's game. Randolph, much like Noyes, showed once again that he has promise. Did he make some mistakes, yes. Does he have a few rough edges, yes. But, he also showed that he brings a lot of positives.

To me, it is obvious that Randolph and Bailey are FAR ahead of Nelson at this point in their collective careers. Based on playing time and opportunity, the coaching staff decision-makers do not agree. Nelson gets far more opportunity, but produces much less positive results.

Complete coaching malpractice.
All our guards turn the ball over too much with poor ball handling and erratic passing. At least Randolph can create shots, inside and out. But our offense requires good outside shooters from all and when your guards are not a threat, it allows defense to key on others. Grace, Burton and Bigelow have hit the wall shooting and teams are not letting Roche breathe.
With the two recruits coming in, I have no idea about their shooting, but next year will probably be worse unless a John Swietz or Aaron Stewart or Curtis Blair comes through the transfer portal.
 
I called for a lot more Noyes early in the season and some scoffed. The boy should have been playing all year! Does he have a few "areas of needed improvement," sure. But, that is one of the reasons that he needed to be on the floor more.

Like so many players before him, Mooney has mismanaged Noyes' year to the max. Unfortunately, Noyes didn't get to help the team as much as he could have, and, Noyes himself lost virtually an entire year of "game" development. Because of the poor coaching decision, Noyes now has to use next year to gain experience and round out the rough edges. Had that been accomplished this year, next year could have been more impactful and less developmental.

Complete coaching malpractice.
Am I right 21 minutes first 29 games, 22 minutes last night?
 
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Does winning matter to you knee? At all? I’ll tell you what he doesn’t do well! Win!!
What are you even talking about?

23 said " for once, I would like to see major improvement in a player under Mooney from one year to next".

I replied, "You really can't identify a single player that has made a major improvement under Mooney? Come on."

You're like, "Does winning matter to you knee? At all? I’ll tell you what he doesn’t do well! Win!!"


Unwittingly, you proved my point. The fact we don't win enough is exactly the type of meat on the bone I was referring to. So much meat, in fact, that 23 doesn't have to make up nonsense that isn't accurate. So after saying "for once" he'd like to see player improvement, he mentioned Harper. So that's once right there. There are countless others that have improved as players from one year to the next. Tyler Burton's jump from freshman to sophomore was noticeable. Nathan Cayo vastly improved. TJ Cline became great (I know, I know, it was all Nancy).

There was a sentiment posted, and I apologize that I can't remember which poster to attribute it to, that I agree wholeheartedly with: Mooney's shortcoming isn't necessarily as a thinker or teacher of basketball, and it certainly isn't in building a team that genuinely cares for each other and for the program, but rather in the X&Os of in-game coaching. I personally think he's not just mediocre at it, but objectively, analytically subpar.


But I have no earthly clue how you got from me challenging 23 that he can't name one player that improved to "does winning matter to you knee".

It's like us debating Chick-fil-A vs Popeye's fried chicken sandwich, and you're like, "do you even want an oil change knee? at all?"
 
Awards:

Burton: most time spent laying on floor
Grace: most time spent asleep
Nelson: ugliest shot
Noyes: MVP
Goose: most unaware of surroundings
Randolph: normal award
Quinn: softest
Roche: invisible award
I laughed at this one. At first it was a "this is funny laugh". Then it was more a nervous, "this is scarily accurate" laugh.
 
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the lineup has driven me nuts all year. everyone loves Goose and Matt is MFG. I get it. but we can't shoot. we don't score enough to win. so you can't play those 2 with Quinn (who's a non-threat from outside) and inconsistent PGs.

it's looked so bad that I started to believe we don't have any shooting. maybe it's just been on the bench. we know Roche can shoot. clearly Randolph can as well. and now we get to see what we've heard ... that Noyes might be the best shooter of the bunch.

for starters, stop playing Quinn and Grace together. for crying out loud. it's been 30 games. it doesn't work. pick one. both have their pluses and minuses. but start one and the other is the backup. should have been that way all year. I prefer a perimeter threat, but at least Quinn is back next season.

I didn't think Nelson was bad last night. but maybe I was wrong about Randolph. he can obviously be a 2 but maybe he can be a point as well. either place, get him more time.

and one other thing ... stop overhelping on defense when we don't need it! you can only help as far as you can get back. we do this all the time.
 
No doubt it is ugly and the universal goal of playing your best basketball at the end of the season is out the window for this team. It really seems to me that Goose and Grace are just playing out the string. 5 years playing UR basketball was one too many. A wasted year for Burton in my opinion but from his interview with Goodman (A10 podcast) it sounded like he was happy with getting to be a bigger voice and he feels like a more confident player. Good luck to him going forward.

@spiderman I think the bus is full regarding frustration with the lineup this year. I can’t think of a single Forum member that likes the Quinn/Grace pairing and there has been a ton of discussion about guard play. I really hoped to see an optimized set of players, but we never got there. This does not bode well for the future since the portal and NIL are going to make every year a new year. The teams that can adapt the fastest will thrive and the rest will just be proving grounds for players that will move elsewhere. I know I am not going to like it because I like team continuity, but that is now an ancient concept.
 
and one other thing ... stop overhelping on defense when we don't need it! you can only help as far as you can get back. we do this all the time.
This makes me wonder if anyone on our staff actually watches game film and takes action on it. Like, how can they think that what we are doing is a good idea at this point? It's been YEARS of this, too, not just this year. But it's been blatantly obvious this year, and I've documented how many teams have made more than their season average of threes against us as a result of it.

We act like three-point shooting is not really something that college players like to do. It's just insanity.
 
This makes me wonder if anyone on our staff actually watches game film and takes action on it. Like, how can they think that what we are doing is a good idea at this point? It's been YEARS of this, too, not just this year. But it's been blatantly obvious this year, and I've documented how many teams have made more than their season average of threes against us as a result of it.

We act like three-point shooting is not really something that college players like to do. It's just insanity.
+1!!!!!
 
he mentioned Harper. So that's once right there
For three years he did not play up to his well well known potential. The scuttlebut was that his improvement came when he went up to Boston for a summer and worked with a legit big man trainer. Now, you could point out that is his fault. Some legitimacy there. But HC needs to point guys in the right direction for self improvement year to year.
 
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This makes me wonder if anyone on our staff actually watches game film and takes action on it. Like, how can they think that what we are doing is a good idea at this point? It's been YEARS of this, too, not just this year. But it's been blatantly obvious this year, and I've documented how many teams have made more than their season average of threes against us as a result of it.

We act like three-point shooting is not really something that college players like to do. It's just insanity.
Right, several on here have pointed out some major flaws on defense that never get fixed. The wide wide open weakside threes is one this year. Never gets fixed.
 
the lineup has driven me nuts all year. everyone loves Goose and Matt is MFG. I get it. but we can't shoot. we don't score enough to win. so you can't play those 2 with Quinn (who's a non-threat from outside) and inconsistent PGs.

it's looked so bad that I started to believe we don't have any shooting. maybe it's just been on the bench. we know Roche can shoot. clearly Randolph can as well. and now we get to see what we've heard ... that Noyes might be the best shooter of the bunch.

for starters, stop playing Quinn and Grace together. for crying out loud. it's been 30 games. it doesn't work. pick one. both have their pluses and minuses. but start one and the other is the backup. should have been that way all year. I prefer a perimeter threat, but at least Quinn is back next season.

I didn't think Nelson was bad last night. but maybe I was wrong about Randolph. he can obviously be a 2 but maybe he can be a point as well. either place, get him more time.

and one other thing ... stop overhelping on defense when we don't need it! you can only help as far as you can get back. we do this all the time.
Exactly, you, I and others pointed out from pre-season on that Quinn and Grace is not a good lineup together. Way too weak on defense, too slow, just negative impact on the overall team effort. Both have very good aspects to their games, especially on offense. But just don't work together for long stretches. This is where - despite kneepad's attacks- I was very positive on giving Mooney a chance before the season. He had assembled some good pieces, that should have been slam dunk top 4 in this weak a$$ A10 (weaker than we even thought). But the inflexibility and inability to get the best out of them, and figure out how to use was a big time fail. Noyes - not ready to say he would have been our savior. Probably was jacked up to actually get on the court last night. But between a recent player touting him as our best talent, what all our eyes show us, and now the fact that PT is playing him, is an indictment that he was not given an opportunity that he should have. It's not like other guys were just playing so good that he couldn't get 5 minutes. Would love to see a lineup with Dji (I know he has not been available a lot), Randolph, Noyes, Burton and one of the bigs (or Bigelow) for a five minute stretch earlier in the season. But just never could try lineups, despite losing anyway. Very frustrating year.
 
This program is going to be in the toilet for a long time. Made a deal with the Devil for the miraculous A10 run with 24 year olds. Cant see a recovery any tome soon. Next year will be worse.
But, but, with the portal any team can be an instant contender overnight!
 
What are you even talking about?

23 said " for once, I would like to see major improvement in a player under Mooney from one year to next".

I replied, "You really can't identify a single player that has made a major improvement under Mooney? Come on."

You're like, "Does winning matter to you knee? At all? I’ll tell you what he doesn’t do well! Win!!"


Unwittingly, you proved my point. The fact we don't win enough is exactly the type of meat on the bone I was referring to. So much meat, in fact, that 23 doesn't have to make up nonsense that isn't accurate. So after saying "for once" he'd like to see player improvement, he mentioned Harper. So that's once right there. There are countless others that have improved as players from one year to the next. Tyler Burton's jump from freshman to sophomore was noticeable. Nathan Cayo vastly improved. TJ Cline became great (I know, I know, it was all Nancy).

There was a sentiment posted, and I apologize that I can't remember which poster to attribute it to, that I agree wholeheartedly with: Mooney's shortcoming isn't necessarily as a thinker or teacher of basketball, and it certainly isn't in building a team that genuinely cares for each other and for the program, but rather in the X&Os of in-game coaching. I personally think he's not just mediocre at it, but objectively, analytically subpar.


But I have no earthly clue how you got from me challenging 23 that he can't name one player that improved to "does winning matter to you knee".

It's like us debating Chick-fil-A vs Popeye's fried chicken sandwich, and you're like, "do you even want an oil change knee? at all?"
I prefer Popeyes, although I think chick fil a makes a better sandwich.
 
Exactly, you, I and others pointed out from pre-season on that Quinn and Grace is not a good lineup together. Way too weak on defense, too slow, just negative impact on the overall team effort. Both have very good aspects to their games, especially on offense. But just don't work together for long stretches. This is where - despite kneepad's attacks- I was very positive on giving Mooney a chance before the season. He had assembled some good pieces, that should have been slam dunk top 4 in this weak a$$ A10 (weaker than we even thought). But the inflexibility and inability to get the best out of them, and figure out how to use was a big time fail. Noyes - not ready to say he would have been our savior. Probably was jacked up to actually get on the court last night. But between a recent player touting him as our best talent, what all our eyes show us, and now the fact that PT is playing him, is an indictment that he was not given an opportunity that he should have. It's not like other guys were just playing so good that he couldn't get 5 minutes. Would love to see a lineup with Dji (I know he has not been available a lot), Randolph, Noyes, Burton and one of the bigs (or Bigelow) for a five minute stretch earlier in the season. But just never could try lineups, despite losing anyway. Very frustrating year.
He will probably transfer.
 
No doubt it is ugly and the universal goal of playing your best basketball at the end of the season is out the window for this team. It really seems to me that Goose and Grace are just playing out the string. 5 years playing UR basketball was one too many. A wasted year for Burton in my opinion but from his interview with Goodman (A10 podcast) it sounded like he was happy with getting to be a bigger voice and he feels like a more confident player. Good luck to him going forward.

@spiderman I think the bus is full regarding frustration with the lineup this year. I can’t think of a single Forum member that likes the Quinn/Grace pairing and there has been a ton of discussion about guard play. I really hoped to see an optimized set of players, but we never got there. This does not bode well for the future since the portal and NIL are going to make every year a new year. The teams that can adapt the fastest will thrive and the rest will just be proving grounds for players that will move elsewhere. I know I am not going to like it because I like team continuity, but that is now an ancient concept.
Your first paragraph is exactly correct.
The second paragraph: We DON’T adapt.
 
Exactly, you, I and others pointed out from pre-season on that Quinn and Grace is not a good lineup together. Way too weak on defense, too slow, just negative impact on the overall team effort. Both have very good aspects to their games, especially on offense. But just don't work together for long stretches. This is where - despite kneepad's attacks- I was very positive on giving Mooney a chance before the season. He had assembled some good pieces, that should have been slam dunk top 4 in this weak a$$ A10 (weaker than we even thought). But the inflexibility and inability to get the best out of them, and figure out how to use was a big time fail. Noyes - not ready to say he would have been our savior. Probably was jacked up to actually get on the court last night. But between a recent player touting him as our best talent, what all our eyes show us, and now the fact that PT is playing him, is an indictment that he was not given an opportunity that he should have. It's not like other guys were just playing so good that he couldn't get 5 minutes. Would love to see a lineup with Dji (I know he has not been available a lot), Randolph, Noyes, Burton and one of the bigs (or Bigelow) for a five minute stretch earlier in the season. But just never could try lineups, despite losing anyway. Very frustrating year.
Attacks? If my post was an attack, then you are softer than Quinn gathering for a layup.

The rest of the post--100,000,000% agreement.
 
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