Roe v. Wade: Gone Forever; Dobbs is here to stay.

Spiderwiz

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As Justice Kagan put it, “The current Court is textualist only when being so suits it,” she writes. “When that method would frustrate broader goals, special canons like the ‘major questions doctrine’ magically appear as get out-of-text-free cards.”
 

urmite

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In the past, it seemed rare to go 14 years without an amendment, and when it did the next one seemed to be major.
Was the last 1992? And was it mostly administrative? Previous 1971, is that correct?

FYI- I am not taking a position on what the next amendment needs to be…
 
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Eight Legger

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The "living Constitution" doctrine transforms the Constitution from a normative (rules) basis to a prerogative basis for interpretation. The danger is whoever is in charge can interpret laws based on their personal whims (their policy prerogatives). Our entire pluralistic system emanates from the stability afforded by the Constitution.
The current Supreme Court is Exhibit A for exactly what you describe. That said, do you think that all laws should be made, enforced and interpreted by people who are alive or by those who died 230 years ago?
 

Ferrum Spider

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Thomas Jefferson himself said the constitution needed to be rewritten every 19 years. Anyone arguing that we should strictly adhere to a 250 year old document written by slave owners has something they don't want to give up. The supreme court just uses mental gymnastics to push their own mid evil agenda.

I'm sure this will ruffle a few feathers on here but the current fasco-Christian element of the conservative movement is an absolute cancer to this country. When Fox News argues in court that their own prime time media darling shouldnt be considered serious news and should be considered entertainment and won a court case based off it, and nearly half the country considers it a legitimate news source you are in trouble. What you are seeing are 50 years of the moral majority chip away to where the dog finally caught up to the car with these supreme court rulings. (Conservatives please don't take this as an endorsement of democrats)

This isnt a culture war anymore. The dems won that. This is a war on common sense which they are doing a terrible job of fighting. This is in part because the democrats enable it at every turn. Instead of fighting for their voters, they usually tell them what they can't have. These two parties try and out right wing each other once in office. ACA was a copy cat of Mitt Romneys Massachusetts bill yet the debate was on how liberal the ACA was which was laughable. Dems only pay lip service to the left during elections. The cynic in me thinks they are thrilled to have something to campaign on now that Roe V Wade is overturned. Dems are nothing more than controlled opposition for the ruling class. Think of republicans as the shock and awe troops that do heinous stuff and the democrats come in as the occupiers.

If dems showed as much balls going after republicans the way they went after the left and Bernie Sanders we likely wouldn't be in this predicament. That's not to suggest they should of gone with the most leftist candidate either. Just that it was obvious to anyone paying attention the DNC was actively screwing over its most vocal, passionate portion of their party.

Collapse is long and slow. America is a geritocracy much like the USSR was in the 1990s run by a bunch of old dudes engaging in arms sales and insider trading trying to hold on to their wealth and power as the system around them collapses. The ruling class has yet again failed the general public but the general public is mad again at the wrong people. I don't have the answer how to fix this. The right has lost its mind and is in lockstep towards facism all while the democrats and the left eat themselves arguing over who is more correct.
 
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Gallipoli

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The Dems caused this.
Why didn't Clinton, Obama or Biden not codify Roe into federal law? Obama had a super majority and didn't even try. This is on the Dems for failing to act when they had the chance. It is also on Harry Reid for blowing up the filibuster in the Senate for court nominees. Finally, RBG should have retired when she had the chance. Now you have to change the law in each state.
 

Spiderwiz

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Uncle Mitch had no involvement with the court skewing? Pick your side of the two criteria he espoused but he clearly was hypocritical to freeze one nomination within a year of the election and then jam another through in the few remaining days until the next election.

Also, as a point of clarity, Mitch changed the filibuster on Supreme Court nominees, not Harry.
 

Eight Legger

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McConnell is as hypocritical as they come. Then again, he's a politician. I suppose most of them are. He simply has been the one with the most authority to makes his hypocrisy matter in recent years.
 

Eight Legger

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I hate them all. Why are a bunch of old white people running the country unchecked?
 

Gallipoli

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The law is not whatever one wants it to be. The court cannot make up laws. It has poisoned our discourse.
 
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Gallipoli

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McConnell is as hypocritical as they come. Then again, he's a politician. I suppose most of them are. He simply has been the one with the most authority to makes his hypocrisy matter in recent years.
The memory of the hearings of Clarence Thomas, Robert Bork, Miguel Estrada, and Brett Kavanaugh loom large for Mitch McConnell.

Harry Reid changed the rules. The same will happen when Chuck Schumer, Tim Kaine and Mark Warner blow up the senate rules. Go ahead, pack the Court.

Republicans thank Harry Reid, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
 

spider fan

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production%2F1605005968518-zpk7qhy78q-942a27afe9f0e5a7b5ac1b0a2c490e2a
 
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Gallipoli

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Crazy uncle Joe was playing catch with the nuclear football.
"The famed Impractical Jokers comedy quartet managed to get access to President Biden's cheat sheet today, quickly plunging the nation into chaos...

The ruse continued until the card said "YOU play catch with YOUR nuclear football", at which point Secret Service intervened and discovered the pranksters. "We thought the President was acting stranger than usual, but it's so hard to tell with Biden," said Agent Steve Watkins. "I suppose his having a lengthy conversation with a lamp should have tipped us off, but it seemed pretty normal at the time."

The Jokers fell on the floor laughing as they made Biden do increasingly outlandish things.

 

Eight Legger

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You must REALLY hate Joe Biden. He is the oldest and whitest of them all.
I have no particular affinity for Biden. He's too old to be president, as Trump is, but I would much rather have Biden because he's an empathetic human being who doesn't lie or try to overthrow the government. I have two young kids. How people in power conduct themselves matters to me. That said, there need to be better options in a couple years than what we have endured the past six.
 
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Quote from a Christian pastor nails the 'pro-life' peabrains​


" 'The unborn' are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn.

It's almost as, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone.

They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”


― Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
 

KE Spider

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Let's put this in perspective based on the facts. With Roe in place, the US was an outlier in the World.

With the exception of the UK , the Netherlands, and Sweden, virtually all other European counties bar abortion beyond 12 weeks. Restraints are tighter in most other corners of the world.

20% of annual conceptions in US are aborted so clearly it is being used as birth control in too many instances when alternative birth control methods are readily available and free in many instances. Case of reproductive rights trumping reproductive responsibility.

Abortion should be legal up to a certain point (not addressed in Constitution so not a Federal right), but late stage abortion as has been allowed under Roe is tantamount to murder. Crushing a skull with forceps coming out of the birth canal does not speak well of us as a people.
 
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spider fan

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David Barnhart has joined those who ignore many Biblical teachings and will tolerate most anything other than disagreeing with him.
 
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Gallipoli

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Did this actually occur? It smells like it was a concocted story. If occurred, it was a rape so why wasn't it reported? Here are ten reasons why this report is suspect.

 

Spiderwiz

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Let’s assume the story is completely false. That doesn’t change the underlying question of should there be exceptions when such circumstances exist?
 

KE Spider

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Let’s assume the story is completely false. That doesn’t change the underlying question of should there be exceptions when such circumstances exist?
Of course, IMO. Hope to be a realist rather than an absolutist.
 

Gallipoli

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Let’s assume the story is completely false. That doesn’t change the underlying question of should there be exceptions when such circumstances exist?
Yes, there should be exceptions. Those exceptions should be handled through our elected representatives at the state level.
 

Spiderwiz

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There are no allowances for victims of rape or incest in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee or Texas.
 

Spiderwiz

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Governor Kristi L. Noem of South Dakota - "I don’t believe a tragic situation should be perpetuated by another tragedy.”
 

Gallipoli

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Governor Kristi L. Noem of South Dakota - "I don’t believe a tragic situation should be perpetuated by another tragedy.”
It sounds like you have work to do in South Dakota. The Pro Life people have worked for 50 years to develop grass roots efforts at the local level. The Pro-Abortion people have not. If one wants change, work at the state level and create coalitions for legislation. Democracy is tough.
 

Gallipoli

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Governor Kristi L. Noem of South Dakota - "I don’t believe a tragic situation should be perpetuated by another tragedy.”
The Pro Abortion people have focused primarily on influencing policy at the national level through Supreme Court appointments and at the state level in only the bluest states. Besides screaming about abortion rights, what else have they done? They can't even figure out how to remain relevant in red states. I doubt any of these abortion clinic operators can make a profit without the revenue stream that abortion gives them.
 

Gallipoli

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The Ohio Attorney General clearly states that there is no evidence this rape of a 10 year old occurred. If a doctor had seen the child in Ohio, that doctor would have been obligated to report the situation. Furthermore, Ohio's heart beat law has exceptions to cover situations like this.

{T}his story should now be placed in the hoax category for that one fact alone. If the child didn’t have to leave Ohio, then it was clearly a set-up to start a political riot that would hurt abortion bills all over this nation. The media and their collaborators on the left got caught in their favorite activity—manipulating the American public. Shame on them."

 

KE Spider

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Seen this behavior before:

Steele dossier, now determined to be nothing more than a dirty trick campaign product, unsupported by any facts....but we tied the Nation in knots and put it through hell over it for 3 years. Pulitzers were awarded for reporting based on anonymous sources that proved to be totally false.

Christine Blasey Ford's totally unsubstantiated accusations against Kavanaugh. The folks she cited to collaborate her story, all said didn't know what she was talking about.

Some don't care about the truth, only getting their way and are willing to engage in any behavior to achieve their goals. Damned sad moment in US history.
 
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Gallipoli

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So, President Biden also cited this occurrence:

"Mr. Biden repeated a tale making the rounds on social media in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision to overrule Roe v. Wade. He said a 10-year-old girl he didn’t identify by name was forced to travel from Ohio to Indiana...

"Imagine, indeed. The tale is a potent post-Roe tale of woe for those who want to make abortion a voting issue this fall. One problem: There’s no evidence the girl exists. PJ Media’s Megan Fox was first to point this out, and so far no one has been able to identify the girl or where she lives.

"What we seem to have here is a presidential seal of approval on an unlikely story from a biased source that neatly fits the progressive narrative but can’t be confirmed. The abortion debate is intense and passions run high. But the American people deserve better from their President than an unproven story designed to aggravate those passions."

 

Gallipoli

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Actually, the story is true. But carry on with the conspiracy theory talk.
Assuming arguendo, that they story is true, the rapist was an illegal immigrant let in by the Biden Administration. So, Biden allowed the dirt ball in- he rapes a girl and Biden blames Ohio and the Supreme Court for it.

In addition, the doctor who released the information committed a HIPAA violation, a clear breach of protocol and Federal law. Such people sacrifice the privacy of a young child for the sake of a talking point. She can never be trusted with sensitive data. Talk about a career limiting move.

 

KE Spider

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Actually, the story is true. But carry on with the conspiracy theory talk.

EL, always driven by facts here. Perhaps it is true and I spoke too soon. Know how to put things in reverse when facts dictate.

Still many unknowns, but one that is not. If the rape happened on June 22 as reported and she had an abortion in Indiana on June 30, it was a needless trip. Ohio law permits abortion through the 6 week of pregnancy.

So even if new info is true, the reporting on this has largely been incorrect and sensationalized...for political purposes.
 
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Eight Legger

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EL, always driven by facts here. Perhaps it is true and I spoke too soon. Know how to put things in reverse when facts dictate.

Still many unknowns, but one that is not. If the rape happened on June 22 as reported and she had an abortion in Indiana on June 30, it was a needless trip. Ohio law permits abortion through the 6 week of pregnancy.

So even if new info is true, the reporting on this has largely been incorrect and sensationalized...for political purposes.
I wouldn't say that: here's the original story from the Indy Star, which very clearly explains right at the top that she was 6 weeks and 3 days pregnant at the time she saw a doctor and that Ohio bans abortion after 6 weeks.


Pretty sure she didn't have an abortion eight days after the rape, either, so I'm not sure where you are getting that info.