Eight, we should always strive to be in the very best conference we can, having said that, we remain an institution of higher learning and you just don't take anything, sacrifice principles, hit the dumpster, to be good at sports, games.
Proposed Letter to Keith Gill
- Thread starter iSpider
- Start date
Never suggested that at all. But there are other teams in our league that face similar challenges, namely Davidson, that have achieved much more than we have. It's fair to ask why.
davidson has a coach we wanted and could not get, he has done a super job there and has also gotten lucky with some recruits. there are also schools out there who continue to change coaches and still have not done well. glad am not an athletic director who has to make very difficult decisions on coaching, knowing it is a crap shoot.
Gill has made it his whole career (here and American) without having to make a difficult decision other than perhaps hiring a coach at a non-revenue sport or figuring out between either a North Face or Patagonia jacket to buy. This letter will fall on deaf ears. As long as there are families that buy those floor seats at men's hoops games, and fill B3 and B5 on football game days, he's safe. Change will only come once someone way higher up the donor chain than any of us doesn't like what he or she sees.
I guess I don't get how a grown man like iSpider is "embarrassed" by a college basketball team losing games. It just seems like a strange choice of words. Disappointed, maybe?
If one of MY own children committed a crime or acted in a demeaning way toward others, I would be embarrassed. If I failed to live up to MY promises, I would be embarrassed. If one of MY players took a cheap shot at an opponent, I would be embarrassed. If there was a lack of effort by the Spiders, I would be disappointed. But generally, I do not get embarrassed by what happens in a college basketball game, no matter who is playing.
For what it is worth, Gill's record as a football player at Duke was 13-30-1.
If one of MY own children committed a crime or acted in a demeaning way toward others, I would be embarrassed. If I failed to live up to MY promises, I would be embarrassed. If one of MY players took a cheap shot at an opponent, I would be embarrassed. If there was a lack of effort by the Spiders, I would be disappointed. But generally, I do not get embarrassed by what happens in a college basketball game, no matter who is playing.
For what it is worth, Gill's record as a football player at Duke was 13-30-1.
Good for you but it's not about you. What's Gill's football record got to do with anything? Think he might have liked it reversed or are you insinuating he is acceptable of losing?
True, but if you're going to ask us for $$$, then there ought to be some form of transparency.
When even Bob Black and Greg Beckwith are questioning things the Spiders are and are not doing on the court, then
there has got to be stuff filtering up to the top. Interesting enough the letter I sent to Gill, two weeks ago was answered quickly.
But my best college buddy did so the next day and never heard back and he is a season ticket holder. That tells me there
is definitely some heat headed upstairs.
there has got to be stuff filtering up to the top. Interesting enough the letter I sent to Gill, two weeks ago was answered quickly.
But my best college buddy did so the next day and never heard back and he is a season ticket holder. That tells me there
is definitely some heat headed upstairs.
Are you holding Keith responsible for the success of the football team, too? I find the status of the men's basketball team just as astonishing as the football team making the national semifinals. We are only one year removed from a last-4-out deep run in the NIT where 2 Power 5 teams came to our arena. I observe this team to have great chemistry. Perhaps they are lacking the emotional leadership of K0. I am also astonished at the vitriol on this board.
Agree that asking questions is fine. My point is that asking them in anger is rarely beneficial.
SpiderPlant, I share your concern about the vitriol on the boards, but unfortunately I hear the same, and often worse, out on the street in the Richmond area.
I wouldn't confuse "vitriol" with "frustration", "disappointment", "concern", or other terms. People read posts in different ways and interpret differently. The aggressive tone is probably a direct reaction to the cause and effect of what has been experienced by long term & loyal fans that are thinking "enough is enough" and that some change is in order. Whatever it is - things are not working. That could mean change in coaching philosophy, change in defense, change in rebounding, change in coaches, etc. The status quo is not viewed as a successful path.
The tone of the board seems to reflect a come to reality theme of a consensus of posters viewing systemic problems associated with the ongoing state of the basketball program. Of course, there are those who will dissent to that school of thought. That is the beauty of a message board.
especially when people on here do not have to answer for their anonymous views, thoughts and coaching prowess
The ones who ought to be embarrassed by the performance of the team are the players. I suspect, however, they are not.
That's why I'm glad that we all use our real names on here, Mr. Spinner, whereas many other boards don't. Mr. 97Spiderfan and I were discussing this very thing the other day with General Octapod and Dr. Keefusb.
Hey Eight,
It's only 4:57 P.M., but I'm going to go out on the limb & vote the above as Post Of The Day.
am actually mr webspinner but you can call me ray, you can call me jay.......
My parents were certainly unconventional, using numerals in my name, but I have gotten used to it.
I was born before we had air conditioning so my parents had us waving fans to cool them off --- they told me URFan1
I have said this many times on the board before. I think our program's success should be measured in 3 areas.
1) NCAA Appearances
2) A10 regular season/tourney championships
3) Beat VCU
Now 1 and 2 are closely related. But 1 is the most significant and trumps 2 and 3. If we made the NCAA tourney every single year, but never won the A10 or beat VCU, I would not care at all. But when you don't accomplish 1 very often, you move on to the next. So lets look a little closer.
1) NCAA Appearances - 2 in what will be 11 seasons after this year. Some people like to throw out 1-2 years from the beginning. So even doing that - your looking at 2 appearances in 9-10 seasons.
2) A10 titles - no regular season titles, highest finish has been 3rd. But with 1 A10 tourney title.
3) Beat VCU - think after this season, he is 4-13 against them.
So point being - I don't see much success in these numbers. I still think the team will finish with 17, maybe 18 wins, so no way they get rid of him and buy him out -school is too cheap to do that. But I do think next season is make or break or then. And although everyone is excited about the recruiting class - I don't like the idea of having to rely on frosh to help us make a postseason run. Simply because that is not what Mooney has done in the past.
1) NCAA Appearances
2) A10 regular season/tourney championships
3) Beat VCU
Now 1 and 2 are closely related. But 1 is the most significant and trumps 2 and 3. If we made the NCAA tourney every single year, but never won the A10 or beat VCU, I would not care at all. But when you don't accomplish 1 very often, you move on to the next. So lets look a little closer.
1) NCAA Appearances - 2 in what will be 11 seasons after this year. Some people like to throw out 1-2 years from the beginning. So even doing that - your looking at 2 appearances in 9-10 seasons.
2) A10 titles - no regular season titles, highest finish has been 3rd. But with 1 A10 tourney title.
3) Beat VCU - think after this season, he is 4-13 against them.
So point being - I don't see much success in these numbers. I still think the team will finish with 17, maybe 18 wins, so no way they get rid of him and buy him out -school is too cheap to do that. But I do think next season is make or break or then. And although everyone is excited about the recruiting class - I don't like the idea of having to rely on frosh to help us make a postseason run. Simply because that is not what Mooney has done in the past.
Glad you guys had a cushy life.... My family piped in sunshine when they could afford it for the 23 kids birthdays.
Good post, Trap.
I think the priorities you posted are on target. And you're right, the numbers don't shake out really well.
One thing I'll add. Mooney may not have much choice in playing the freshman next year. He didn't show much belief in his bench...again this year, and I'm thinking the incoming class will probably be stronger on balance than what's sitting on the pine right now. I really think we have at least two gamers coming in. Time will tell.
Don't forget this is the summer of the overseas trip. I understand western Europe. Great chance to kick start freshman class
What? this is not a blame Gill issue but he is in charge and the only person who can do something about it. Great chemistry? Do they like each other, probably. will that push each other to exceed expectations, don't know. The players are the players, they are not in charge.
Can Keith actually do anything about it? I doubt he would be able to fire Mooney even if he wanted to, we aren't spending $5 million to fire a coach.
Does anyone really know that the contract requires full payment of the last 5 years to terminate, no matter what the situation is? Even if it does, which I very much doubt.... Gil can pretty much strip the power of the coach incrementally, fire assistants, require the hiriing of a co-head coach. A bad year is tolerable, a bad year with so many seniors and juniors and with the exception of KF nothing proven in the pipeline except hope is not a tenable situation. If TJ was a soph. I'd feel a little better. We don't have a player coming along over 6'8" with any playing time. It's very difficult for UR to recurit big men who are ready to step in a play the physical inside duties.
How does KoVein do in practice? Is PF really that bad? Maybe a juco or transfer. I don't think there are any ways out of this mess that doesn't involve 3 years before we get to the NCAA tournament.
I agree but again if a big donor stepped up to make that contract happen, than he might step again to do away with it.
And I know the athletic department has a budget but 5 million in college athletics is not some huge figure these days. How much did we raise for the RC renovations, a lot more than 5 million. Especially when you consider our endowment and possible return from actually having a program that really competes and gets to the ncAs on a regular basis.
Here are the NCAA years for us
NCAA Appearances.....................................................9
.................(‘84, ‘86, ‘88, ‘90, ‘91, ‘98, ‘04, ‘10, ‘11)
Let's get back to the 5 in 8 years standard set by Tarrant!
NCAA Appearances.....................................................9
.................(‘84, ‘86, ‘88, ‘90, ‘91, ‘98, ‘04, ‘10, ‘11)
Let's get back to the 5 in 8 years standard set by Tarrant!
Can we add to that Tarrant list the 4 NIT appearances as well? Back then it was MUCH MORE difficult to get in to the NIT, because both the NCAA and the NIT fields were smaller. Dare I say it was an honor to get invited to the NIT in the 80's. So out of Tarrant's 12 years he made difficult post season appearances and astounding 9 times! Contrast that with Mooney's 11 years with only 2 NCAA and 1 (last year) NIT, when it is nowhere near as difficult to get invited. I can only hope that the only reason Dick Tarrant sits in the stands and not on the bench, is because that's where he wants to be.
Seriously excellent point. Between the 2 games the Spiders scored like a dozen baskets on us with in bound plays.
Ram Bal
However only '86, '04, '10 were at-large bids. I would rather not be required to win the conference tournament. I think that should be the goal.
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