Nick Sherod returning for final season!
- Thread starter plydogg
- Start date
My 2 points were the following.
We switch a lot, so its not like like we are asking him to guard a 2 guard straight up.
Our defense has been terrible at times the past few years and this last season we showed improvement, but it is still not our strong suit. So I don't think playing Nick at the 2 makes us that much worse.
Not to mention - I think Burton, if needed, could guard a quicker 2 when needed, and move Sherod over to a slower player at times. And I agree as mentioned above - I don't think Nick is coming back to play like an old man at the YMCA. I think he is coming back and will be close to old Nick we are used to seeing. The bigger question will be not if he IS HEALTHY, but rather - CAN HE STAY healthy?
We switch a lot, so its not like like we are asking him to guard a 2 guard straight up.
Our defense has been terrible at times the past few years and this last season we showed improvement, but it is still not our strong suit. So I don't think playing Nick at the 2 makes us that much worse.
Not to mention - I think Burton, if needed, could guard a quicker 2 when needed, and move Sherod over to a slower player at times. And I agree as mentioned above - I don't think Nick is coming back to play like an old man at the YMCA. I think he is coming back and will be close to old Nick we are used to seeing. The bigger question will be not if he IS HEALTHY, but rather - CAN HE STAY healthy?
We will need a 2nd ball handler on the floor with Jacob, pretty much at all times. I doubt we will ever see a lineup of Jacob, Nick, Tyler, Nate, and Grant. 4 guard types and a forward could work at times, but 4 forward types and 1 guard is asking for a lot of trouble.
Trap only difference I have with your post, our D was pretty good 2 years ago, last year not so much.
On D, we hard hedge a lot too and sometimes those that don't understand that part of the game, think we missing an assignment or not playing good D.
true, we hard hedge I believe 100% of the time if the 5's man is ball screening up top. we usually do it well. when it's slow it looks bad, but it's the best way to handle that screen.
I don't see the ball handling as much of a concern. Sure - maybe in a game like VCU where a team might pressure us full court for the entire game, this is where Wilson gets more minutes. But thinking back to Kevin Anderson - he was the primary ball handler on that team - and I don't think Sherod and Burton are any worse than Gonzo, Butler, or Smith. So while ball handling might be needed in more minutes on some nights - I think Gilyard is more than capable of handling these duties, similar to Kevin Anderson did - for the majority of the game - in most situations.
And, if I'm the opposing coach, I double Jacob in the backcourt and get the ball out if his hands. Gonzalvez handled the ball just fine, and when we went to the sweet 16, Brothers and Ced averaged almost 40 minutes playing with Anderson.
I don't understand the ball handling concerns. Over the past 12 years under Mooney it is likely that we are one of the top 10, if not the #1 team in D1 in terms of ball handling. Excellent ball handling is by far the most consistent aspect of every Mooney team. It is even statistically more consistent than poor rebounding, which has actually varied from team to team. Here are our rankings for turnover percentage over the past 12 years:
8
17
18
70
38
9
10
49
94
40
11
17
top 10: 25% of the time
top 11: 33% of the time
top 25: 58% of the time
top 50: 85% of the time
top 100: 100% of the time
Even in our worst ball handling season, we were well above average. Our "average" ball handling season is at an elite level.
Exactly. The concerns would be putting four forwards out there with Jacob. If we want to keep our turnovers down and our offensive efficiency up, I think we need a good ball handler on the floor with Jacob.
teams have gotten by without playing 2 PG types together forever. we've been the exception. it's been great for our ball handling. it hasn't been great in other areas. a 2 guard doesn't have to be a 2nd point guard. we could certainly try Sherod and Burton on the wings at times with Gilyard handling full time PG duties. if it becomes a problem ... we can always sub in a stronger 2nd ball handler.
I am not saying we need a 2nd PG type, just a 2nd ball handler. I don't consider Nick and Tyler ball handlers. They never have been since they have been here. Wilson and Dji could be consider 2nd PGs, but we also have and have had guys like Wojcik and Andre, who are not PGs, but can handle the ball and did so much more than guys like Nick and Tyler have.
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And for almost that entire time we were playing 2 smallish guards either of whom on any other team could have played PG in their own right.
I’d be surprised if our turnover margin didn’t substantially degrade with any of nick, Connor or Tyler as the secondary ball handler.
I think we have had some bigger 2 guards than most people remember. Here are the top 2s in terms of minutes at the 2 for the past 12 years under Mooney.
10: Gonzalvez (6'4), Kevin Smith (6'5)
11: Ced (6'1), Brothers (6'3)
12: Brothers (6'3), K0 (5'8)
13: Brothers (6'3), K0 (5'8)
14: SDJ (5'10), Sparrow (6'3)
15: SDJ (5'10), Trey Davis (6'5)
16: Fore (6'0), Trey Davis (6'5)
17: Fore (6'0), Julius Johnson (6'3)
18: Fore (6'0), Julius Johnson (6'3)
19: Andre Gustavson (6'4), Jake Wojcik (6'4)
20: Blake (6'0), Andre (6'4)
21: Blake (6'0), Andre (6'4)
One of the top 2 options at 2 has always been 6'3+, though some of the smaller ones did play a lot of minutes at the 2. I don't think Nick would be the worst ball handler on this list.
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Good research if the goal is to show we have had some guards taller than 6'0 here. But, I'm not sure what this shows when comparing them all as ball handlers to Nick. Who would you say he is a better ball handler than from the list? And, how would you even know when we have never asked him to be one? And, wouldn't he have to be better than both of the guys you listed since the debate is could he be the main option beside Jacob?
Sherod hasn’t been asked to be a secondary ball handler before, true, but he has been exceptionally good with the taking care of the ball in the role he has played. He ranked #1, #1 and #8 in turnover percentage out of all players in the a10 in the seasons he has played conference games. He ranked 11th, 39th and 79th out of all d1 players in those years as well. The numbers are actually extremely impressive.
I’d put sherod in front of Kevin Smith and Trey Davis on that list at least, could see him playing a very similar role to Brothers at the 2.
I’d put sherod in front of Kevin Smith and Trey Davis on that list at least, could see him playing a very similar role to Brothers at the 2.
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I like Nick where he has been his whole career here. Focused on outside shooting, with some 12 footers mixed in after posting up in the lane. I hear you about the lack of turnovers, and that is impressive, but I would say that is due to not handling the ball much.
1) 6'0" is PG size. that's very small for a 2. most of our SG minutes have gone to small guys.
2) Blake isn't 6'0" no matter what the roster says. he's not much taller than Jacob ... who isn't even 5'9".
3) Kendall Anthony was really the 2 ... at like 5'8" 150. when you put him next to SDJ, that's a really small backcourt.
6'0 is too small for a 2nd guard in the NBA, but not too small at the college level. Teams are loaded with three, even four, guard lineups out there, and many have two small guards. It's not like we play a lot of teams with star 6'5 guards who will take a 6'0 guard down low and post him up all game. I will take quickness on defense over a couple inches of height all day long.
6'0" is small for a SG in college. I can't believe we're even arguing that. and Blake isn't 6'0". and Kendall isn't 6'0". Khwan might not be 6'0". it's not the only reason but it's part of the reason why teams hit a high percentage of 3's against us and part of the a reason we struggle rebounding.
if you want multiple small guys on the floor for quickness and ball handling, then you have to make up for it in the front count. and we don't.
I think you’re underselling the “smaller ones did play a lot of minutes” comment. Fore vastly outplayed JJ. Same with SDJ and either Wayne or Trey (plus I always thought of him as the point),
Nick is nowhere near the ballpark of those guys as a ball handler, much less K0 or Blake.
Sherod is not a guard, he is a forward. Much like Tyler is a forward. I don't want either having much ballhandling responsibilities, especially when we have Isiah, Dji, Andre, and Nelson on the roster.
Nick played 2nd guard 5.6% of the time his sophomore season. He has play the vast majority of the rest of his time as 3rd guard.
nobody's asking him to have ball handling responsibilities. the PG can bring the ball up. if teams press and we need more ball handling, we can sub. if they're not pressing, Gilly brings it up and gives to grant, cuts through, Grant dribbles at a wing, etc ...
it's not like we have to dribble through a press either. you pass over and around it.
Come on, Sman. Now, you are just making things up. Smaller guards are the reason teams have high 3-point percentages against us? They don't. With Kendall and Ced, we finished 10th in the country in three point defense, with Kendall and ShawnDre, we finished 16th. With Jacob and Khwan, we finished 38th. With Jacob and Blake, we had years of 42nd and 67th.
All good, Sman. And, I can agree there's a huge difference in shooting over a 5'8 guy and a 6'5 guy. That is part of the reason why I'm excited about Dji's potential. He has size, can handle the ball, looks quick, and looks good on defense. If he shows he can makes 3s, he can be a really really good one. As far as pressing is concerned, it is not that easy to just sub against a press, as if the game stops, and you're allowed to put in the exact offense you want against a team's defensive style. Teams can change defenses throughout a game. And, there is so much more to being a good ball handling team then just helping with the press. As far as the rebounding is concerned, I thought you agreed with me that our rebounding stats are poor because of our style of play. We get back on defense and prevent transition points. This also allows us to not give up many open three-point shots in transition, which helps keep our three-point defense pretty good most years. So, small guard or big guard, if that's our strategy, it would not affect rebounding very much.
I don't have the stats to back this up, but I don't think we're all that good at defensive rebounding.
offensive rebounding is partly a style thing. I don't agree that we just run back to stop transition as some here believe. but we are a perimeter based offense so we're not in position to go after boards as well as some teams. and our bigs aren't great rebounders outside of Burton. and our guards are small. they do get some quickness rebounds but they don't rebound as well from the guard spots as some do. so there's a lot going on to explain our rebounding.
offensive rebounding is partly a style thing. I don't agree that we just run back to stop transition as some here believe. but we are a perimeter based offense so we're not in position to go after boards as well as some teams. and our bigs aren't great rebounders outside of Burton. and our guards are small. they do get some quickness rebounds but they don't rebound as well from the guard spots as some do. so there's a lot going on to explain our rebounding.
Lol Sman, I don’t have the exact stats either, but we are out-rebounded by 10 in almost every game. So either we suck at rebounding or we are playing the top 30 rebounding teams in the nation every season. I am thinking the former.
I lean towards it being a recruiting thing. we focus on skills more than the raw athletes some schools target. when we find superior athletes with skills, it's usually with less size. when we do find a guy like Burton who is naturally a good rebounder, he rebounds fine despite any supposed flaws in our rebounding philosophy.
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