Mens: NET '24-'25 Rankings

[MrTbone]

We finished 15-3 A10 and 23-10 in the year. We had a very good season for 90% of the season and fizzled out at the end.

I have to correct this. We had a good season for (23/33=69.7%) of the season. We had a soft start and no chance to make the tournament going into conference and had only autobid hopes in spite of a fairly miraculous conference run.

I’m not taking anything away from winning the conference, it was great and fun. But this is the kind of thinking that I find sort of maddening because I care about making the tournament. We had only one path to get there and didn’t even win one conference tourney game to do so. That’s a fail.

None of this matters to the CM contract. He will be coach until he decides to leave, so we should all stop hemming and hawing about it. UR is fine with what he brings, including losing seasons 40% of the time.

 

[spider23]

Excellent points on last season. The BC loss wrecked any at large hopes and thud at Norhtern Iowa. Great run thru the A10, until the thud again at season end.

 

[97spiderfan]

And bad seasons do not get rewarded. The reality in college athletics is that no program can convince coaches to sign a contract stipulating that if the coach has a bad season they would lose years on their contract or have to pay back money. There are no “punishable” bad seasons in college athletics in that sense. That’s not how it works. So at worst, a bad season means no extension/raise and enough consecutive bad seasons means getting fired.

Bad seasons get you fired in coaching. Look at Ryan Day right now. He is on the hot seat, not because he is having "bad" seasons but because they can't be Michigan and crapped the bed against a bad Michigan team at the end of the year. So Ohio State had by most metrics a great regular season, but I think there is a fair chance that if they go one and done in the playoffs this year, he could be gone.

Obviously, we are different world than Ohio State but a similar principal applies to our flagship sport. We should have an expectation that we are competing for NCAA bids. Last year, great in conference regular season but crapped out in every meaningful OOC game and big time bed wetting at the end and we were no where near an NCAA bid.

So, is that a good season for us? You say yes, 4700 says yes, Mooney and our administration says yes, I and others say no Our reality is that we have higher expectations for our MBB program, which is our flagship sport, to be competing for NCAA bids and that was not what happened last year. And that is the disconnect with many in our fanbase is that our coach and administration do not have very lofty expectations for success.

This is why quite frankly, I've grown tired of Spider athletics in many capacities, despite it being my alma mater and I have been a regular season ticket holder for 20 years now. If I can't feel that our leadership has aspirations for greatness (and they don't, they tell us that all of the time in so many ways) than it just becomes exhausting as a fan to be super invested in something that its leadership isn't even 100% bought into to making in great.

 

[spider23]

This is why quite frankly, I've grown tired of Spider athletics in many capacities, despite it being my alma mater and I have been a regular season ticket holder for 20 years now. If I can't feel that our leadership has aspirations for greatness (and they don't, they tell us that all of the time in so many ways) than it just becomes exhausting as a fan to be super invested in something that its leadership isn't even 100% bought into to making in great.

💯 Makes it harder and harder to stay invested. As I mentioned on other threads here, been doing a guys weekend with some UR buddies last few years. Very little discussion of Spiders sports on these. Football moving to Patriot league. Hoops is always my main interest and obviously the folks on this board are all in, but I have first hand experience that other UR cronies are not. It's just same ol same ol, with the rare peaks, but more often valleys.

 

[97spiderfan]

Most people that I correspond with that is a Spider alum, fan, feels largely the same way, I do. So, when I hear, folks like 4700 and Spider17 with their takes on the state of our program and Mooney as our coach, I'm genuinely perplexed that as a committed follower/fan of our program that the best you want is 55%. 20 years, 55% winning percentage, who as a fan would sign up for that?

I think anywhere else except maybe some Ivy schools, Patriot League or the small D-1 would never accept that. But here, some revere it and certainly our administration rewards it via continued extensions and pay increases. It honestly just makes me sad that this is best we will have until Mooney decides to retire.

 

[SpiderTrap]

This is why I think in a few years, all UR sports will be joining the Patriot League. As NIL progresses even more, and the NCAA case gets settled, which will likely result in players being paid by the schools in addition to NIL and setting salary cap restrictions - I think you will see a break in all college sports - mainly by league affiliation, where leagues try to level the playing field among themselves. Similar to how the Ivy league currently does so by not offering full scholarships and by not allowing eligibility past 4 years - those are rules specific to the Ivy League in order to keep them fair between themselves, in the Ivy League. I see this trickling down to smaller leagues as they know they can't compete with bigger leagues and don't want 1-2 outlier schools in their own league to gain an advantage and always win.

So I could see schools like VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, St. Bonaventure, etc - going all in when these changes occur, but UR not willing to do so. And therefore - they will likely search out a league that fits us better from a competitive and more important in their minds - academic point of view, and I think the Patriot League will be the ultimate landing spot.

I hope it doesn't happen. And all the reasons - such as money, exposure, competing for NCAA bids are all good reasons not to make that type of move - but does this administration care now about any of those things? If they don't care much about that now, why care about in the future???

 

[RichmondNative]

This is why I think in a few years, all UR sports will be joining the Patriot League. As NIL progresses even more, and the NCAA case gets settled, which will likely result in players being paid by the schools in addition to NIL and setting salary cap restrictions - I think you will see a break in all college sports - mainly by league affiliation, where leagues try to level the playing field among themselves. Similar to how the Ivy league currently does so by not offering full scholarships and by not allowing eligibility past 4 years - those are rules specific to the Ivy League in order to keep them fair between themselves, in the Ivy League. I see this trickling down to smaller leagues as they know they can't compete with bigger leagues and don't want 1-2 outlier schools in their own league to gain an advantage and always win.

So I could see schools like VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, St. Bonaventure, etc - going all in when these changes occur, but UR not willing to do so. And therefore - they will likely search out a league that fits us better from a competitive and more important in their minds - academic point of view, and I think the Patriot League will be the ultimate landing spot.

I hope it doesn't happen. And all the reasons - such as money, exposure, competing for NCAA bids are all good reasons not to make that type of move - but does this administration care now about any of those things? If they don't care much about that now, why care about in the future???

I have said this same thing many times in the past, but my latest thought on this is that UR won’t have to leave the A10 because the A10 will become one of the “lower leagues”, otherwise known as non-professional college sports.

All of this has been driven by football and that seems like the logical place to “split” the colleges. Those with D1 “premium” football are in the Super League and the rest form some sort of “old fashioned” NCAA league (the world prior to NIL, portal, etc).

I don’t know if there will be a “premium” basketball only league. Seems like the Big East may be left out on the sidelines and the ACC may not be far behind. Would colleges really need to keep spending big money when all the large public schools are no longer participating with them?

 

[SpiderTrap]

I have said this same thing many times in the past, but my latest thought on this is that UR won’t have to leave the A10 because the A10 will become one of the “lower leagues”, otherwise known as non-professional college sports.

All of this has been driven by football and that seems like the logical place to “split” the colleges. Those with D1 “premium” football are in the Super League and the rest form some sort of “old fashioned” NCAA league (the world prior to NIL, portal, etc).

I don’t know if there will be a “premium” basketball only league. Seems like the Big East may be left out on the sidelines and the ACC may not be far behind. Would colleges really need to keep spending big money when all the large public schools are no longer participating with them?

That is a likely scenario as well and I would expect if A10 becomes that type of league - schools like Dayton, VCU, St. Louis, and maybe even the Bonnies would look to move elsewhere and stay relevant in a league hyper focused on basketball.

 

[GKiller]

If I can't feel that our leadership has aspirations for greatness (and they don't, they tell us that all of the time in so many ways) than it just becomes exhausting as a fan to be super invested in something that its leadership isn't even 100% bought into to making in great.

You treat the flagship sport differently. REGATTA. But yeah that is my top frustration too. Because I've thought & think our program has higher ceiling but UR admin does not. That's why we moved to A10 or so we were told. & I'm not talking about some super crazy unreasonable ceiling, there are legitimate reasons r ceiling is higher. and where is the real progress to that ceiling. I know UR admin and the student17s and 4700s will say well the school thinks Mooney is the guy to get us to that ceiling. But when you've had 20 years and then extend him to 24 years with our metrics, there's a rather unbelievable and laughable premise.

Most people that I correspond with that is a Spider alum, fan, feels largely the same way, I do. So, when I hear, folks like 4700 and Spider17 with their takes on the state of our program and Mooney as our coach, I'm genuinely perplexed that as a committed follower/fan of our program that the best you want is 55%. 20 years, 55% winning percentage, who as a fan would sign up for that?

I think anywhere else except maybe some Ivy schools, Patriot League or the small D-1 would never accept that. But here, some revere it and certainly our administration rewards it via continued extensions and pay increases. It honestly just makes me sad that this is best we will have until Mooney decides to retire.

I guess we all must run in different circles. Have lot of UR friends and connections, nobody is pro Mooney. I don't know 1 any longer. And honestly I think that hurts us too. In sports u will always have some criticism but if most r behind the coach there's an energy that comes w it. spider23 would call it palpable.

 

[RichmondNative]

That is a likely scenario as well and I would expect if A10 becomes that type of league - schools like Dayton, VCU, St. Louis, and maybe even the Bonnies would look to move elsewhere and stay relevant in a league hyper focused on basketball.

Sure if such a conference exists, but I think the money hungry powers that be aren’t going to let that happen. They want to control the tournament too and I can’t see some small group of basketball only schools being able to change it.

 

[spider23]

Let's Compare Richmond under Mooney to some mid major schools that we should aspire to be like in basketball, and I see no reason why we can't other than admin/coaching complacency:

Richmond (Mooney Regime) 19 seasons
.564 win %
4 NCAA Years (21% success rate) - Note: So i dont get whining - I am including the covid shutdown as an NCAA season.

SDSU (Dutcher Regime) 7 Seasons
.751 win %
6 NCAA Years (85% success rate)

St. Mary's (Randy Bennet Regime) 24 Seasons
.712 win %
11 NCAA Years (46% success rate)

VCU (Years equivalent to Mooney Regime)
.715 win %
13 NCAA Years (68% success rate)

Wow, just wow what we settle for YOY.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Let's Compare Richmond under Mooney to some mid major schools that we should aspire to be like in basketball, and I see no reason why we can't other than admin/coaching complacency:

Richmond (Mooney Regime) 19 seasons
.564 win %
4 NCAA Years (21% success rate) - Note: So i dont get whining - I am including the covid shutdown as an NCAA season.

SDSU (Dutcher Regime) 7 Seasons
.751 win %
6 NCAA Years (85% success rate)

St. Mary's (Randy Bennet Regime) 24 Seasons
.712 win %
11 NCAA Years (46% success rate)

VCU (Years equivalent to Mooney Regime)
.715 win %
13 NCAA Years (68% success rate)

Wow, just wow what we settle for YOY.

What a disparity.

UR may aspire to be like these teams, and occasionally give lip service to claiming to be like them, but results are starkly different. St. Mary's also plays in a similar conference, where most years (qualifier language) the only NCAA type chance for a win in league would be Gonzaga, yet they still overcome that to regularly make the NCAAs.

The VCU comp is astounding. I too have tended to look at them in a piecemeal view of their results by each coach that they have had, not as a whole of all their coaches during the same period. It's an exclamation point statistical comparison.

 

[spider23]

The VCU comp is astounding. I too have tended to look at them in a piecemeal view of their results by each coach that they have had, not as a whole of all their coaches during the same period. It's an exclamation point statistical comparison.

Yes, the VCU comp is damning, especially to those that see some type of over weighted value in having one coach for perpetiuty. As you can see, tradition, and comittment to winning can carry over across regimes - if you have administration and the large whale donor(s) on the same page.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Sure if such a conference exists, but I think the money hungry powers that be aren’t going to let that happen. They want to control the tournament too and I can’t see some small group of basketball only schools being able to change it.

I could see 1 basketball conference existing, or those power conferences each absorb 1-2 basketball only schools, since they are so big already. I mean look at the SEC - they have 16 schools already. They don't really need anymore football schools. So if they added 2 schools without football, but strong basketball - it would not effect them so much. Same with ACC - currently at 18 schools - if they wanted to, they could add 2 basketball schools (really 2 schools without football).

 

[SpiderTrap]

Let's Compare Richmond under Mooney to some mid major schools that we should aspire to be like in basketball, and I see no reason why we can't other than admin/coaching complacency:

Richmond (Mooney Regime) 19 seasons
.564 win %
4 NCAA Years (21% success rate) - Note: So i dont get whining - I am including the covid shutdown as an NCAA season.

SDSU (Dutcher Regime) 7 Seasons
.751 win %
6 NCAA Years (85% success rate)

St. Mary's (Randy Bennet Regime) 24 Seasons
.712 win %
11 NCAA Years (46% success rate)

VCU (Years equivalent to Mooney Regime)
.715 win %
13 NCAA Years (68% success rate)

Wow, just wow what we settle for YOY.

To add to your argument as I have mentioned before - VCU and UR were equals when both teams made that historic run, VCU to final four and UR to sweet 16. Programs like VCU and UR need that deep run to catapult them and make the foundation to move forward. BUT - in order to do so, you must commit at that time to doing so - because those runs are hard to come by and if you don't capitalize when you can, it might be many years before you get another shot. I think VCU did not, UR did not. And our roads split at that time.

 

[mr.spider]

This is why I think in a few years, all UR sports will be joining the Patriot League. As NIL progresses even more, and the NCAA case gets settled, which will likely result in players being paid by the schools in addition to NIL and setting salary cap restrictions - I think you will see a break in all college sports - mainly by league affiliation, where leagues try to level the playing field among themselves. Similar to how the Ivy league currently does so by not offering full scholarships and by not allowing eligibility past 4 years - those are rules specific to the Ivy League in order to keep them fair between themselves, in the Ivy League. I see this trickling down to smaller leagues as they know they can't compete with bigger leagues and don't want 1-2 outlier schools in their own league to gain an advantage and always win.

So I could see schools like VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, St. Bonaventure, etc - going all in when these changes occur, but UR not willing to do so. And therefore - they will likely search out a league that fits us better from a competitive and more important in their minds - academic point of view, and I think the Patriot League will be the ultimate landing spot.

I hope it doesn't happen. And all the reasons - such as money, exposure, competing for NCAA bids are all good reasons not to make that type of move - but does this administration care now about any of those things? If they don't care much about that now, why care about in the future???

Replying here because the point was first made here, but most of the subsequent posts are spot on too.

NIL is definitely in the process of splitting schools into different levels, like fcs in football. Whether A10 becomes the lower level remains to be seen. But it is becoming more obvious each day that a split will occur. Unfortunately, we are showing all signs that we will choose the lower level whether it's A10 or Patriot or somewhere else. And it does not have to be that way! We could easily be the top tier if we want to be.

I think I'm losing interest little by little because it's obvious a split will occur, and it's becoming obvious we will choose the lower tier. At that point, I'm completely out, but I'm hanging on now because there is a slight chance we choose to go all in. I really hope so.

 

[spiderman]

the top ranked kids went P5 before NIL.
they go P5 with NIL.
what's the difference?

 

[mr.spider]

the top ranked kids went P5 before NIL.
they go P5 with NIL.
what's the difference?

Because we are still playing at the highest level of competition. Once we start officially playing for 2nd fiddle like football, we are dropped to the nobody cares zone.

This was obviously a terrible year for scheduling, but we typically play some great teams each year in basketball. Compare that to who we play in football. No one cares about fcs outside of the schools involved. Many people don't even know we have a football team, and if they do, they don't care because it is not the top level. Same would happen with basketball if we slip to a lower division or subdivision. For now, we are at least in the same conversation with the big boys, same championship tournament at least. That means something to me.

 

[spiderman]

I don't think it changes. there's no need for this split you think is inevitable.

 

[mr.spider]

I don't think it changes. there's no need for this split you think is inevitable.

I hope you're right. And more importantly, if it does, I hope we choose to stay relevant.

 

[97spiderfan]

I guess we all must run in different circles. Have lot of UR friends and connections, nobody is pro Mooney. I don't know 1 any longer. And honestly I think that hurts us too. In sports u will always have some criticism but if most r behind the coach there's an energy that comes w it. spider23 would call it palpable.

Same here. I don't know one person who is pro Mooney, most think he is a joke of a coach at best. There was a great thread on one of the FB fan pages and the moderator had to come on and say he so tired of Spider fans attacking each other over the pros and cons of Mooney. But that is the part of the reality of with Mooney now. He has become so entrenched, such a lightening rod that basically divides our fan base. And yes, that does hurt us. Our administration just ignores that elephant in the room.

If things continue to go south this season, that elephant is gonna become larger and noisier.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I don't think it changes. there's no need for this split you think is inevitable.

I think the difference is the money that schools will need to invest if they want to play this game. You are right - kids chose P5 schools before NIL and schools paying athletes legally, and they will continue to do so with NIL and when/if schools can pay them. The difference is before - schools just handed out scholarships, so not a lot of money lost there - because while that might cost a school a spot from a tuition paying student, it was more of an internal cost - but still a cost nonetheless.

BUT now - you going to have to decide, will you pay up and be like the others. So a school like UR will have to decide - will we pay our athletes a salary on top of their scholarship, and if so - will we do the max amount allowed? Or will we simply do something on a lower level to appear like we are trying - or do we simply get out of this rat race, as suggested - and join a league where all teams abide by the same rules and maybe agree on a lower cap or agree not to pay players at all? Early indications say schools might be initially capped at 20 million dollars to pay their athletes (likely across all sports) - even if UR does half that - you think they want to hand out $10 million each year? I don't see that type of investment from them. But I could see a school like Dayton or VCU jumping full in and trying to pay as much as they possibly can to stay relevant and continue to make as many NCAA tourney's as possible.

 

[VT4700]

Most people that I correspond with that is a Spider alum, fan, feels largely the same way, I do. So, when I hear, folks like 4700 and Spider17 with their takes on the state of our program and Mooney as our coach, I'm genuinely perplexed that as a committed follower/fan of our program that the best you want is 55%. 20 years, 55% winning percentage, who as a fan would sign up for that?

I think anywhere else except maybe some Ivy schools, Patriot League or the small D-1 would never accept that. But here, some revere it and certainly our administration rewards it via continued extensions and pay increases. It honestly just makes me sad that this is best we will have until Mooney decides to retire.

20 years. As if that is relevant right now. We could win titles and dance games the next few years and we would still hear the same crap on here. "But, over 20 years...". How do I know this? Because that is exactly what has happened the past few seasons. We have had 24, 24, and 23 win seasons this decade with conference titles and a dance win and we hear the same crap over and over. Most everyone except this board would call the last 5 seasons more relevant than going back 20 years, but looking at all of our success the past few seasons seems to upset many of you so we fans that appreciate that are not allowed to talk about it on here. Well, we can, but we get criticized relentlessly for it. 2020 didn't even exist for many of you. One of our best seasons ever, but we can't mention that on here. Then, when the board becomes no fun and we stop posting for awhile, like right now, we get accused on hiding and running away.

You ask who other than Ivy League, Patriot League, and low D1 would accept our results? Give me a break. For starters, nearly every team in our own conference would. Just this decade we have had 24, 24, and 23 win seasons. How many A-10 teams wish they did that? Or how about, more importantly, an A-10 tourney title, an A-10 regular season title, and an NCAA tourney win? How many A-10 teams in a 15 team league have done that this decade? 1. Richmond. And, we did all that the past 3 seasons. But, sure, no one but low D1 would want that success, right? And, shame on the few of us on here who appreciated and enjoyed that, right? What a freaking joke this board is.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

lol, Moon's tenure is irrelevant except for the last few years of your choosing. Got it. Historical win rate as a predictor of future success? Irrelevant! History of NCAA appearances as indicator of program relevance? Irrelevant!

OK, I'll play that game. I can make up my own criteria just as simply as you can. I've supported the program for multiple decades.

My criteria: 2 years back plus this year because the portal has halved a time period for turning over an entire roster. (Previously was 4 years plus a redshirt year.)
My goalposts for relevance: NCAA appearances

2 years ago: Losing season, no postseason.
1 year ago: NIT, first round blowout loss. No bubble consideration the entire season.
present year: 4-4 with 2 wins against D2 competition and 3 awful losses. Worst NET of the NET era.

Clear downtrend. Zero relevance.

 

[mr.spider]

20 years. As if that is relevant right now. We could win titles and dance games the next few years and we would still hear the same crap on here. "But, over 20 years...". How do I know this? Because that is exactly what has happened the past few seasons. We have had 24, 24, and 23 win seasons this decade with conference titles and a dance win and we hear the same crap over and over. Most everyone except this board would call the last 5 seasons more relevant than going back 20 years, but looking at all of our success the past few seasons seems to upset many of you so we fans that appreciate that are not allowed to talk about it on here. Well, we can, but we get criticized relentlessly for it. 2020 didn't even exist for many of you. One of our best seasons ever, but we can't mention that on here. Then, when the board becomes no fun and we stop posting for awhile, like right now, we get accused on hiding and running away.

You ask who other than Ivy League, Patriot League, and low D1 would accept our results? Give me a break. For starters, nearly every team in our own conference would. Just this decade we have had 24, 24, and 23 win seasons. How many A-10 teams wish they did that? Or how about, more importantly, an A-10 tourney title, an A-10 regular season title, and an NCAA tourney win? How many A-10 teams in a 15 team league have done that this decade? 1. Richmond. And, we did all that the past 3 seasons. But, sure, no one but low D1 would want that success, right? And, shame on the few of us on here who appreciated and enjoyed that, right? What a freaking joke this board is.

Rant on, bro! That was one of your best actually. I enjoyed it. And you're right if these last few years were building blocks, along with one successful season mixed in, towards higher excellence, I'd be thrilled and excited about the future. But we've all been around the program for awhile, and we have seen historically with Mooney how this story ends. Unfortunately, we don't build on these great building block seasons. This is our peak. Now we're on the crash cycle. And most of us know we could have sustained growing higher success with a better coach without so many crashes.

Aaron Roussell shows us exactly what many of us know is possible. He's had one NCAA appearance in the last 5 years as well and we didn't even win the game. But every year is more growth. You can see the potential and promise of the future. He knows how to coach every possession. He appreciates their growth but expects more. He emphasizes Defense AND Rebounding. Look at the schedule he created. He praises the fans. He is passionate. He is building the program. Go out tonight and watch the game. You'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[Section9.RowD]

259 -> 258 ... sign of good times ahead

258 -> 260 ... hopefully our nadir of the season ...