Lack of NCAA appearances
- Thread starter Eight Legger
- Start date
I believe CM also said he had a college ready body. I know we haven't seen freshman play a lot recently, but think that Julius might be a different player. The one position where there is a definite hole for minutes is the 2 guard.
I am NOT in the Fire Mooney camp and I believe our program and coach have many great things going for it.
Nevertheless, my expectations which may be too high are being challenged.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if on the day CM was hired we were told that after 10 years the winning percentage would be .561.
At the end of last season there was a group of wait till next year posts citing a senior all-conference player, experienced juniors, a promising transfer and a very good shooting recruiting class as our ticket to the NCAA.
Just saying...
Some complained about a cupcake OOC schedule this year and then we lost to some of those cupcakes.
Yet, we beat VCU twice and we finished strong and we have more basketball and NIT possibilities in front of us to keep us enthused and I am pulling hard for our team to send Kendall out with a bang.
I'm just a little tired and leery of wait till next year. Hope it happens!!!!
I think I will know a lot when I see who our starting 5 is in game 1.
Go Spiders...MSG here we come!
Nevertheless, my expectations which may be too high are being challenged.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if on the day CM was hired we were told that after 10 years the winning percentage would be .561.
At the end of last season there was a group of wait till next year posts citing a senior all-conference player, experienced juniors, a promising transfer and a very good shooting recruiting class as our ticket to the NCAA.
Just saying...
Some complained about a cupcake OOC schedule this year and then we lost to some of those cupcakes.
Yet, we beat VCU twice and we finished strong and we have more basketball and NIT possibilities in front of us to keep us enthused and I am pulling hard for our team to send Kendall out with a bang.
I'm just a little tired and leery of wait till next year. Hope it happens!!!!
I think I will know a lot when I see who our starting 5 is in game 1.
Go Spiders...MSG here we come!
Agree that JJ is starting to show us the talent that coaches see every day. But the confidence it takes only comes from game playing time. Unfortunately, he benefitted from Zo being out, just like SDJ got more PT last year with Ced's injury. Shows that getting minutes on the court in games is the key way to improve and develop. Really hope that, even though we'll have a longer bench next season, that CM will get as many of these guys in the action especially during OOC.
re: wonder what the reaction would have been if on the day CM was hired
we were told that after 10 years the winning percentage would be .561.
How about some context...In that 10 years he would:
re-build
the program from the shi*hole that it was left to him,
win an A-10
championship, lose in the finals of another,
be competitive within A-10 (I
mean by that not a DUQ, FORD type doormat),
make two tourneys including 1
Sweet 16 for only the 2nd time in school history (with his own players not what
Beilein and Wainwright did)
Have 2 A-10 Rookies of the Year
Recruit 2 of
the Top 4 scorers in Richmond basketball history (neither close to 6 feet tall)
one who succeeded another
Have another all time top6 scorer (GONZO)
have
an NBA 2nd Round Draft pick (only 3rd time in 30+ years)
yes, the dreaded
roster of "good kids" with zero academic issues and with only 1 high profile
departure (see Damon Bacote, Chad Varga, Jeremy Metzger, Charles Stephens) that
was self inflicted
had success on the court to be the impetus for the BOT to
approve RC update
Now that all being said, yes, most would have wanted the
years beyond the post Sweet 16 to be better, but it hasn't been a disaster
either.
we were told that after 10 years the winning percentage would be .561.
How about some context...In that 10 years he would:
re-build
the program from the shi*hole that it was left to him,
win an A-10
championship, lose in the finals of another,
be competitive within A-10 (I
mean by that not a DUQ, FORD type doormat),
make two tourneys including 1
Sweet 16 for only the 2nd time in school history (with his own players not what
Beilein and Wainwright did)
Have 2 A-10 Rookies of the Year
Recruit 2 of
the Top 4 scorers in Richmond basketball history (neither close to 6 feet tall)
one who succeeded another
Have another all time top6 scorer (GONZO)
have
an NBA 2nd Round Draft pick (only 3rd time in 30+ years)
yes, the dreaded
roster of "good kids" with zero academic issues and with only 1 high profile
departure (see Damon Bacote, Chad Varga, Jeremy Metzger, Charles Stephens) that
was self inflicted
had success on the court to be the impetus for the BOT to
approve RC update
Now that all being said, yes, most would have wanted the
years beyond the post Sweet 16 to be better, but it hasn't been a disaster
either.
Long Time,
As I said, the coach and program have many great things going for it.
I enjoy rooting for our guys and am behind them all the way, hopefully now to MSG.
I'm not wild about 10 years of .561 but never mentioned "disaster".
(Plus we don't have any players who lead the nation in steals both on and off the court).
I'm just getting old and have many "next years" under my belt.
My expectation is not that the program will not be a disaster.
My expectation is MINE. If it is too high for others, no problem.
I want us in the NCAA tournament every 2 or 3 years.
If we don't make it I root harder, buy more tickets and then go fishing.
I don't go postal on the Coach. Life is too short and sweet.
This post was edited on 3/19 9:54 AM by 8legs
As I said, the coach and program have many great things going for it.
I enjoy rooting for our guys and am behind them all the way, hopefully now to MSG.
I'm not wild about 10 years of .561 but never mentioned "disaster".
(Plus we don't have any players who lead the nation in steals both on and off the court).
I'm just getting old and have many "next years" under my belt.
My expectation is not that the program will not be a disaster.
My expectation is MINE. If it is too high for others, no problem.
I want us in the NCAA tournament every 2 or 3 years.
If we don't make it I root harder, buy more tickets and then go fishing.
I don't go postal on the Coach. Life is too short and sweet.
This post was edited on 3/19 9:54 AM by 8legs
So what I take from LongTime;s list is that we have a competitive team in the A10 with good kids both on an off the court, some of whom have made all-league honors, and a sweet 16 appearance. That is not much different than many of our past coaches in my opinion. Wainwright took us to the NCAA tourney (as you said - with Beileins players) but Skrocki was on that team and made all-A10 honors a few times, not to mention he was just indcuted into the UR Hall of Fame. Dobbins was on that team as well - A10 Defensive POY in back to back years I think. Gaston Moliva - all-rookie team. Steenberge and Bucknor - all A10 honors. Only 2nd at large bid in school history. Pulled off one of the greatest wins in UR history at Kansas, but remember - also had a big win at Stanford. Winning percentage at UR - .549. And took us to the NIT one time as well.
Beilein - same thing as above really. All league players in the Stevenson brothers, Reggie Brown, Kinte Smith. Took us to the A10 tourney finals in first year in league. NCAA appearance with a first round win over South Carolina (Dooley's players). NIT quarterfinals with a win at Minnesota and then loss to Syracuse at home (who would go on to win national title next year). Winning percentage of .654.
So like 8legs said - no one is saying the program is a disaster. That is where I think people go wrong. And no one is saying "FIRE MOONEY!". I think all some people are saying, myself included, and sounds like 8legs is on the same page - maybe the seat should be getting a little warm. We are in a 4 year NCAA drought. Is that a disaster - of course not. We have had winning seasons each of those 4 years. BUT - we are a program with a history of making the NCAA tourney. If we were another program like Fordham (who just fired their coach) - I would say give Mooney a raise and extension, because their expectations are much lower. But I am with 8legs - I think every 2-3 years is reasonable, with an NIT sprinkled in there.
Next year - if we don't make the NCAA tourney - would I fire Mooney? Depends on the circumstances. But one thing is for sure - the seat would be very very hot. Otherwise - your just telling everyone, the fans, school, etc. We don't care about NCAA tourney appearances. Just go out - compete, be above .500 and you can coach here forever. I think UR is better than that.
Beilein - same thing as above really. All league players in the Stevenson brothers, Reggie Brown, Kinte Smith. Took us to the A10 tourney finals in first year in league. NCAA appearance with a first round win over South Carolina (Dooley's players). NIT quarterfinals with a win at Minnesota and then loss to Syracuse at home (who would go on to win national title next year). Winning percentage of .654.
So like 8legs said - no one is saying the program is a disaster. That is where I think people go wrong. And no one is saying "FIRE MOONEY!". I think all some people are saying, myself included, and sounds like 8legs is on the same page - maybe the seat should be getting a little warm. We are in a 4 year NCAA drought. Is that a disaster - of course not. We have had winning seasons each of those 4 years. BUT - we are a program with a history of making the NCAA tourney. If we were another program like Fordham (who just fired their coach) - I would say give Mooney a raise and extension, because their expectations are much lower. But I am with 8legs - I think every 2-3 years is reasonable, with an NIT sprinkled in there.
Next year - if we don't make the NCAA tourney - would I fire Mooney? Depends on the circumstances. But one thing is for sure - the seat would be very very hot. Otherwise - your just telling everyone, the fans, school, etc. We don't care about NCAA tourney appearances. Just go out - compete, be above .500 and you can coach here forever. I think UR is better than that.
Trap, Why don't you post a poll about it but make sure you put your prejudicial caveats on the choices!
Had Belien and Wainwright each been here for ten years maybe their records of getting to the dance would be similar to Mooney's. And had Mooney moved on to BC perhaps he would be revered as a great Spider Coach. And if a bullfrog had wings perhaps he wouldn't bump his ass when he hopped.
This post was edited on 3/19 10:19 AM by whampas
This post was edited on 3/19 10:19 AM by whampas
Trap, once again you don't bother w facts. I said in context of the .561 winning percentage, In my opinion, I look at the 10 years of the Mooney reign as a success. yes, I would like the post Sweet 16 to be better, (see I said that I under 1000 words).
Since you have poo-pooed us making the NIT w/ Mooney why are you mentioning it for Beilein?
Since you have poo-pooed us making the NIT w/ Mooney why are you mentioning it for Beilein?
I am not poo-pooing on the NIT. I said if Mooney makes the NIT final four - this would be considered a successful season in my book...almost on par with making the NCAA tourney and losing first round.
Everything I stated was facts about Wainwright and Belien and when put next to Mooney - I think they look pretty similar. Never said Wainwright had good kids (merritt jumps to the top of everyones list), but also never said the same for Beliein (not all of his players graduated and remember he had to kick off 2 of our better players over a christmas break for what was rumored to be some recreational drug activity). And Mooney has had some transfers as well. Point of putting Wainwright and Belein in there was because if your calling Mooney a success - then clearly Wainwright and Belein were were successful here as well.
Overall context - Mooney a success? I would say, right now - he would fit into my category of WAS a success. That can all change with a deep run in the NIT and NCAA tourney appearance next year though. This is just the nature of the business - what have done lately...no NCAA appearances in 4 years - thats what.
This post was edited on 3/19 12:49 PM by SpiderTrap
Everything I stated was facts about Wainwright and Belien and when put next to Mooney - I think they look pretty similar. Never said Wainwright had good kids (merritt jumps to the top of everyones list), but also never said the same for Beliein (not all of his players graduated and remember he had to kick off 2 of our better players over a christmas break for what was rumored to be some recreational drug activity). And Mooney has had some transfers as well. Point of putting Wainwright and Belein in there was because if your calling Mooney a success - then clearly Wainwright and Belein were were successful here as well.
Overall context - Mooney a success? I would say, right now - he would fit into my category of WAS a success. That can all change with a deep run in the NIT and NCAA tourney appearance next year though. This is just the nature of the business - what have done lately...no NCAA appearances in 4 years - thats what.
This post was edited on 3/19 12:49 PM by SpiderTrap
