How many of the starting 5 return?

[ChoppinBroccoli]

In answering this question it is important to remember that the players have very different opinions relative to the university, basketball program and coaching staff than a vast majority of this board, which is extremely negative. If you take the view of people who post on this board, everything is terrible and always will be terrible, therefore, nobody is coming back. If you take the view of the players, who historical have shown strong loyalty to the program and coach, you arrive at a completely different answer. Here are my thoughts:

• Burton, very good chance he will return.
• Sherod, 50% probability. I do not think he plans to go pro. Sounds like he wants to teach and if that is the case and his knee heals, he might give it another shot.
• Gilyard, 50% probability. There is a massive difference in compensation between the top league in Europe and all the others. Gilly has played at an All American level in every aspect, but shooting this year. If he were to return without Blake, he might revert back to the shooting abilities he demonstrated his sophomore year, where he lead the A10 in score during conference play. Coming back would also allow him to set the All-time NCAA record for steals. Both of these could lead to a much better pro career.
• Cayo, 50% probability. If he can improve over this year, it might help him get a much better contract in Europe.
• Golden 25% probability. He probably could get a top contract with a top team in Europe. He might come back if Gilly and others return to get to enjoy a winning season in front of sellout crowds. Also depends on what is happening over in Europe this summer.
• Blake 15% probability. All depends on what type of pro contract he could get. Not sure him playing another year would help enhance his chances of a better contract.

Hello, good thoughts, though I don't agree with the cheap shot. The "vast majority" of this board isn't extremely negative, nor do they think everything is terrible. I think most of the board - at least the ones who actually went to UR and don't just claim they did - hold UR in high regard.

As others have mentioned, there are many complicating factors other than pro contracts. Not a lot of young men and women want to stay in school for six years. There is incoming talent that might choose another destination if they are "blocked" for an extra year here. Same goes for underclassmen.

Your percentages look pretty good to me; perhaps a bit optimistic. I think Nick's probability is a lot lower; he already said his career was over, although he may have walked that back since. I agree that Gilyard and Cayo are the most likely of #bestclassever to stay, if only because they are true seniors and not already in their fifth year.

The problem with all of these guys winding up in the same class - and this is not a complaint but just an unfortunate fluke that it happened this year - is that for it to work next season they almost all have to agree to "get the band back together." What if this season ends in disappointment - no matter what that means - and Nick, Blake, and Jacob's best friend Grant move on. Jacob wants to use his extra year of eligibility. Say a power school with a better-than-even chance of making the tournament comes calling, that will offer Jacob enough playing time to break the Division I steals record. Most of these young men want to play in the tournament at least once in their career.

 

[spider23]

LOL. He sure does, only have to make 1.2 mil to figure out how many players to have on the court.
Serious question: where is districtballer? I like your style but district was the best passive aggressive troll you guys ever produced.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Hello, good thoughts, though I don't agree with the cheap shot. The "vast majority" of this board isn't extremely negative, nor do they think everything is terrible. I think most of the board - at least the ones who actually went to UR and don't just claim they did - hold UR in high regard.

As others have mentioned, there are many complicating factors other than pro contracts. Not a lot of young men and women want to stay in school for six years. There is incoming talent that might choose another destination if they are "blocked" for an extra year here. Same goes for underclassmen.

Your percentages look pretty good to me; perhaps a bit optimistic. I think Nick's probability is a lot lower; he already said his career was over, although he may have walked that back since. I agree that Gilyard and Cayo are the most likely of #bestclassever to stay, if only because they are true seniors and not already in their fifth year.

The problem with all of these guys winding up in the same class - and this is not a complaint but just an unfortunate fluke that it happened this year - is that for it to work next season they almost all have to agree to "get the band back together." What if this season ends in disappointment - no matter what that means - and Nick, Blake, and Jacob's best friend Grant move on. Jacob wants to use his extra year of eligibility. Say a power school with a better-than-even chance of making the tournament comes calling, that will offer Jacob enough playing time to break the Division I steals record. Most of these young men want to play in the tournament at least once in their career.

#Kevin Bacon!

 

[SpiderTrap]

Agreed - I don't see Burton leaving. With what we have returning next season (which is not much) - he should probably average 20 points a game and might even make a case (if his progress continues as it did from last year to this year) for potential POY consideration. The team will not be good, but if his goal is to play in the NCAA tourney - I think his best bet would be to see if NCAA waives sitting out for all transfers for 1 time (I think this in on the table for their consideration) and he could play his senior year somewhere else OR he could try to graduate early and get out.
But it would be best for him to stick around next season - see how the team develops and at the same time he should put up good numbers. Only difference next season for him will be the attention teams pay attention to him on defense. He will be the focus of other teams, whereas right now he is probably 3rd on that list behind Gilyard and Francis.

 

[Eight Legger]

Burton still has three years left if he wants them.

 

[LionNation540]

LOL. He sure does, only have to make 1.2 mil to figure out how many players to have on the court.
Serious question: where is districtballer? I like your style but district was the best passive aggressive troll you guys ever produced.

He came back and started posting again on VCURN.

 

[spiderman]

everyone's goal is to dance when they join a program. that doesn't mean dancing trumps everything else once you're in that program. a few might, but most don't just chase the easiest opportunity to dance by looking to join a program with a more likely shot. you don't run from happiness if you've found a place you love. you don't leave the relationships you've built. working together towards something means a lot more than just joining something. I don't think the TJ's and SDJ's of our program regret spending their final college years playing at UR.

 

[urmite]

Burton still has three years left if he wants them.

Burton has 13 years left.
But I'm counting NBA starts in that number...

 

[urmite]

#Kevin Bacon!

Your game keeps making me think of six degrees of contact trace.
If you are a contact trace of a contract trace of a contact trace of a contact trace of a contact trace of a positive, you go on pause...

 

[spiderman]

if Kevin Bacon gets covid, the whole world goes on pause.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

LOL. He sure does, only have to make 1.2 mil to figure out how many players to have on the court.

I can't figure out why that post was deleted...trolling aside, it was pretty funny.

 

[VT4700]

everyone's goal is to dance when they join a program. that doesn't mean dancing trumps everything else once you're in that program. a few might, but most don't just chase the easiest opportunity to dance by looking to join a program with a more likely shot. you don't run from happiness if you've found a place you love. you don't leave the relationships you've built. working together towards something means a lot more than just joining something. I don't think the TJ's and SDJ's of our program regret spending their final college years playing at UR.

Like you said, does making the dance elsewhere really top what you had? Sometimes yes, sometimes, no. But, I think the "transfer to make the dance" stuff is way overrated. I would think finding the right fit over a 31+ game season would be way more important than playing in maybe one tourney game. Khwan and ANO made the dance elsewhere, lost right away, and averaged 3 ppg and 1 ppg at Louisville and Pitt. But, hey, they got to play a few minutes in the dance with guys they just met and played with that year, right? Yawn.

 

[spider23]

He came back and started posting again on VCURN.

oh wow very interesting, I'll have to take a look.

 

[spider23]

I can't figure out why that post was deleted...trolling aside, it was pretty funny.

Not the first time I have been "cancelled" but likely one of the tamer posts that has been deleted. I would not have even noticed our mods are after me again if you didn't mention hahaha. Better check my private messages and see what I did this time

 

[spider23]

Like you said, does making the dance elsewhere really top what you had? Sometimes yes, sometimes, no. But, I think the "transfer to make the dance" stuff is way overrated. I would think finding the right fit over a 31+ game season would be way more important than playing in maybe one tourney game. Khwan and ANO made the dance elsewhere, lost right away, and averaged 3 ppg and 1 ppg at Louisville and Pitt. But, hey, they got to play a few minutes in the dance with guys they just met and played with that year, right? Yawn.

Agree with this to an extent. The problem with Burton is, he will likely have programs telling him: Hey, come make the dance and come practice vs top competition, and come get prepared to have an NBA career. He is a very unique case in that he has actual NBA athleticism and a rapidly developing skill set. Fore and ANO were not NBA types, ANO probably had the physical tools out of HS to have a chance but not the minds set IMO. Burton's people are probably getting feelers from all kinds of top programs unfortunately. JOC even fueled the fire. Hope he loves it here and is back. If he leaves hopefully Mooney and Hardt are right behind.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

everyone's goal is to dance when they join a program. that doesn't mean dancing trumps everything else once you're in that program. a few might, but most don't just chase the easiest opportunity to dance by looking to join a program with a more likely shot. you don't run from happiness if you've found a place you love. you don't leave the relationships you've built. working together towards something means a lot more than just joining something. I don't think the TJ's and SDJ's of our program regret spending their final college years playing at UR.

In my scenario, he'll have graduated, played four seasons already, and most of his "relationships" will have left. This "bonus" extra year of eligibility is pretty unique. I don't think TJ or SDJ regret staying either, but their situation was different. Plus, our team was pretty good in 2017, their last year of eligibility.

I don't think it's radical to speculate that if Grant leaves, that decreases the odds that Jacob stays. This group appears pretty tight - I think it's reasonable that if one stays or leaves it will affect the others' probabilities, with a positive correlation.

Jacob is special - I could see teams that have aspirations to play deep into March showing interest - not just one-and-dones.

Russ was really happy at NC State, but then his coach started making noise about his baseball. He was already in grad school (undergrad in 3 years) so he used his last year of eligibility to go somewhere else. He got to win a Big 10 Championship and play in the Rose Bowl.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

if Kevin Bacon gets covid, the whole world goes on pause.

Movie idea: After COVID has gone endemic, Kevin Bacon visits a town that has banned music, dancing and parties out of an irrational fear of viruses.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Not the first time I have been "cancelled" but likely one of the tamer posts that has been deleted. I would not have even noticed our mods are after me again if you didn't mention hahaha. Better check my private messages and see what I did this time

Not your post...Lion's (which you quoted). It was just a joke about 6 players.

 

[LionNation540]

@spider23 @ChoppinBroccoli your mod simply doesn't have a sense of humor. I'm shocked.

 

[Spiders4ever]

@spider23 @ChoppinBroccoli your mod simply doesn't have a sense of humor. I'm shocked.

I have probably had more deleted by the mods than I have posts.

 

[MrTbone]

#Kevin Bacon!

How is that a Kevin bacon?

 

[kneepadmckinney]

How is that a Kevin bacon?

I've moved on from every thread blaming Mooney, to identifying all sarcastic references to "best class ever", as if any of these players said it about themselves and deserve the derision it is eliciting.

Not only was there a sarcastic, snide reference to "best class ever", there was the added bonus of a hashtag. Broc wrote:

"I agree that Gilyard and Cayo are the most likely of #bestclassever to stay, if only because they are true seniors and not already in their fifth year. "

So that earned the hashtag version of Kevin Bacon.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

My post was neither snide nor sarcastic.

"I'm sooooooo honored to earn a Kevin Bacon" <---that was sarcastic.

 

[MrTbone]

I've moved on from every thread blaming Mooney, to identifying all sarcastic references to "best class ever", as if any of these players said it about themselves and deserve the derision it is eliciting.

Not only was there a sarcastic, snide reference to "best class ever", there was the added bonus of a hashtag. Broc wrote:

"I agree that Gilyard and Cayo are the most likely of #bestclassever to stay, if only because they are true seniors and not already in their fifth year. "

So that earned the hashtag version of Kevin Bacon.

Got it. I thought Kevin bacon was strictly a CM sucks reference. I can see your point.

Its unfortunate that there’s a conflation of the best class ever comment with the quality of these players. I think most fans here, while perhaps individually critical of certain game performances of our starting five, think they’re all quite good. Players certainly don’t own the moniker but their coach put them in the awkward position among this crowd of having to meet that lofty statement. I hope they’re wise enough to separate those things and also to disregard the snark in here. I only speak for myself but I’m disappointed that I think we aren’t meeting our potential this season.

 

[spiderman]

Players certainly don’t own the moniker but their coach put them in the awkward position among this crowd of having to meet that lofty statement.

imo, coach simply made a complimentary statement about the quality of these 5 Spiders who ended up in the same graduating class. five 1,000 point scorers who have received various individual accolades. he didn't say this is our best team ever. he didn't say we'll go the farthest ever. and he certainly didn't foresee Covid.

some of our fans choose to mock these players and/or Mooney with the #bestclassever stuff, not the coach.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Got it. I thought Kevin bacon was strictly a CM sucks reference. I can see your point.

Its unfortunate that there’s a conflation of the best class ever comment with the quality of these players. I think most fans here, while perhaps individually critical of certain game performances of our starting five, think they’re all quite good. Players certainly don’t own the moniker but their coach put them in the awkward position among this crowd of having to meet that lofty statement. I hope they’re wise enough to separate those things and also to disregard the snark in here. I only speak for myself but I’m disappointed that I think we aren’t meeting our potential this season.

#bestclassever is simply shorthand for "Cayo, Francis, Gilyard, Golden, and Sherod." It's not derogatory. It's not mocking. Do the snowflakes really need us to type that all out every time we're referring to those five just to avoid triggering them?

Yes, snowflakes is derogatory.

 

[spiderman]

if that's been your intent, I've just been reading it wrong.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

#bestclassever is simply shorthand for "Cayo, Francis, Gilyard, Golden, and Sherod." It's not derogatory. It's not mocking. Do the snowflakes really need us to type that all out every time we're referring to those five just to avoid triggering them?

Yes, snowflakes is derogatory.

That's absolute BS. I can dig up 50+ posts where it is abundantly clear that it is being used derisively. Maybe you are not intending it to be sarcastic, but you'd be the ONLY one.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

#bestclassever is simply shorthand for "Cayo, Francis, Gilyard, Golden, and Sherod." It's not derogatory. It's not mocking. Do the snowflakes really need us to type that all out every time we're referring to those five just to avoid triggering them?

Yes, snowflakes is derogatory.

You could say "the senior class", which pretty much everyone would do if he/she weren't trying to be derisive.

 

[VT4700]

Got it. I thought Kevin bacon was strictly a CM sucks reference. I can see your point.

Its unfortunate that there’s a conflation of the best class ever comment with the quality of these players. I think most fans here, while perhaps individually critical of certain game performances of our starting five, think they’re all quite good. Players certainly don’t own the moniker but their coach put them in the awkward position among this crowd of having to meet that lofty statement. I hope they’re wise enough to separate those things and also to disregard the snark in here. I only speak for myself but I’m disappointed that I think we aren’t meeting our potential this season.

Looking at your last sentence, are you talking about potential on the court? I just think we need to keep things in perspective here. We are 10 and 4 with some nice wins right now. And 34-11 going back to last year.

Let's look back at history a little bit. Our sweet 16 team under Tarrant went 21-6 in the regular season with losses to 10-18 JMU, 12-16 Navy, and 14-14 American. Our 2011 sweet 16 team went 24-7 in the regular season with losses to Iona, ODU, and Bucknell. Imagine if those teams had their seasons ended before the conference tourney like last year's team, or was interrupted numerous times by covid like this year's team. How would we look back at history on those teams? I think this team is being treated very unfairly and negatively by a lot of people for reasons out of their control.

 

[MrTbone]

Looking at your last sentence, are you talking about potential on the court? I just think we need to keep things in perspective here. We are 10 and 4 with some nice wins right now. And 34-11 going back to last year.

Let's look back at history a little bit. Our sweet 16 team under Tarrant went 21-6 in the regular season with losses to 10-18 JMU, 12-16 Navy, and 14-14 American. Our 2011 sweet 16 team went 24-7 in the regular season with losses to Iona, ODU, and Bucknell. Imagine if those teams had their seasons ended before the conference tourney like last year's team, or was interrupted numerous times by covid like this year's team. How would we look back at history on those teams? I think this team is being treated very unfairly and negatively by a lot of people for reasons out of their control.

Yes, talking potential on the court, specifically as it relates to this season. I fully recognize that what's happening right now is at least partially out of their control. That said, I had higher hopes for their record given the games they've played. Perhaps my expectations are too high, although I would think that most of this board expected to be an NCAA team this year and right now, we are on the outside looking in for the most part. Hence why I think they're not at their potential.

 

[GKiller]

Looking at your last sentence, are you talking about potential on the court? I just think we need to keep things in perspective here. We are 10 and 4 with some nice wins right now. And 34-11 going back to last year.

Let's look back at history a little bit. Our sweet 16 team under Tarrant went 21-6 in the regular season with losses to 10-18 JMU, 12-16 Navy, and 14-14 American. Our 2011 sweet 16 team went 24-7 in the regular season with losses to Iona, ODU, and Bucknell. Imagine if those teams had their seasons ended before the conference tourney like last year's team, or was interrupted numerous times by covid like this year's team. How would we look back at history on those teams? I think this team is being treated very unfairly and negatively by a lot of people for reasons out of their control.

"We are 10 and 4 with some nice wins right now." Sounds like some lack of urgency I've heard out of Richmond before. We are underachieving. I don't think anyone disputes that not even the players.

Also those teams were not coming off 9 year NCAA droughts. Fact of the matter is the team has to bear the burden of Mooney's past failures. is that fair? No but that's team sports. See it all the time. The Washington Capitals sure did for long time. Tons of examples.

We like the players. we root for the players. This board is tame. Even player parents agree on that. It would be a 5 alarm fire anywhere else that is staring at 10 years without NCAA, with never once winning the league in a 16 year coach tenure.

When I hear "bestclassever" it goes back to Mooney. When u throw out bestclassever yes there is a expectation that comes with team accomplishments. Covid sucks, but we are handling that now as probably the worst in the A10. Hold my beer St. Louis. And we are underachieving on the court to date.

I have lot of empathy for the players. It's much harder to have empathy for a 16 year coach that hasn't made the NCAA since 2011, is 7-19 vs VCU, has been treated exceedingly well here overall, & been given ton of resources after we made the institutional decision to go get more NCAA bids.

More of the same from Moon and his big bossman Hardt. More big hat no cattle.

 

[plydogg]

The Real Housewives of Richmond are back at it again

 

[VT4700]

Yes, talking potential on the court, specifically as it relates to this season. I fully recognize that what's happening right now is at least partially out of their control. That said, I had higher hopes for their record given the games they've played. Perhaps my expectations are too high, although I would think that most of this board expected to be an NCAA team this year and right now, we are on the outside looking in for the most part. Hence why I think they're not at their potential.

I hear you, T, but we certainly are not an exception when it comes to teams maybe being a little off and not quite playing as well as we think they should at times this year. I think I counted only 12 teams above us in the NET who have played at least 14 games and have less than 4 losses. And there are 14 teams above us who have MORE than 4 losses. It's just that kind of year where losses are going to pile up for teams if they get a lot of games in. So, add it all up, and I actually think we are in a pretty decent spot right now, but, we need to start playing and winning games come mid February.

 

[97spiderfan]

I hear you, T, but we certainly are not an exception when it comes to teams maybe being a little off and not quite playing as well as we think they should at times this year. I think I counted only 12 teams above us in the NET who have played at least 14 games and have less than 4 losses. I think just about every team out there has a head scratching loss or two this year. It's just that kind of year. So, add it all up, and I actually think we are in a pretty decent spot right now, but, we need to start playing games come mid February.

I'm sure if you asked most spider fans after our win over Kentucky and Top 20 rankings and then told them by mid February, this team will have 10 wins, losses to Hofstra and LaSalle, and 3 Covid pauses, that absolutely ZERO of them including your Mooney a** kissing self, would have said "Hmm, yeah, I actually think we are in a pretty decent spot right now".

Dude, we can't even step on the damn court to practice, we have no idea when we will play again, the last time we went through this, we came out and got our asses waxed by frickin LaSalle.

We are in a terrible spot and that is not including the PR nightmare that our AD has us is by haranguing another league member for skipping out on a game, only to find out less than 48 hours later, that our protocol was indeed that bad, that another team took one look at and hopped back on a plane to get the hell out of here.

Our Men's Basketball program has seen many some dark days over the past decade, this past week is the cake topper though.

 

[GKiller]

not to mention 97 that r AD & coach have basically gone into hiding.

 

[GKiller]

How is that a Kevin bacon?

I’ve said this before but the Kevin Bacon is genius. But 1 unsolicited piece of advice for Kneepad. You don’t want it to become ubiquitous. Got to pick & choose the Kevin Bacons.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I’ve said this before but the Kevin Bacon is genius. But 1 unsolicited piece of advice for Kneepad. You don’t want it to become ubiquitous. Got to pick & choose the Kevin Bacons.

I appreciate that, and the feedback. My retort would be that the very point of it is to identify how ubiquitous certain themes become on this board. The first was the "Mooney sucks" theme that populated every thread 2 years ago. I started it back up for "best class ever" because it was being weaponized in a large number of threads this year. I'm keeping it going on this theme, but will keep your advice in mind for future themes.

 

[SpiderAlways]

Kneepad, your love of Mooney is astounding!. Elaborate please for those of us on the fence.

 

[8legs1dream]

the pom-pom squad is growing!