GONE GUY
- Thread starter WebSpinner
- Start date
Imagine that, a coach who failed to get his team to the NCAA tournament for four straight years getting fired. Amazing.
Or take the path of Mike Davis - the guy who once coached Indiana to the National Championship game, then fell down to UAB, and now coaches at Texas Southern, who guess what - just made the NCAA tourney by winning their conference (SWAC).
Hewitt and Anthony Grant can sit around and count their money together.
I have always thought that one of the best deals going is to be hired a coach at a major college or pro program, do whatever you want, and when you get fired, you take your guaranteed money and ride off into the sunset. Corporate leaders usually get the same deal when they have served out a couple years of their contract and the BoD decides to can them and the "golden parachute" deploys.
At least Hewitt will no longer be the highest paid state employee in VA...
I have always thought that one of the best deals going is to be hired a coach at a major college or pro program, do whatever you want, and when you get fired, you take your guaranteed money and ride off into the sunset. Corporate leaders usually get the same deal when they have served out a couple years of their contract and the BoD decides to can them and the "golden parachute" deploys.
At least Hewitt will no longer be the highest paid state employee in VA...
As for Grant's firing, he was earning $1.9M a year through 2019, so he had four years and $7.6M left. The buyout was apparently $3.5M, but if/when he gets another job, some or all of his new salary counts toward the buyout amount.
I would imagine that is fairly standard contract language, for those of us who were wondering similar things earlier in the year about our coach.
Mooney has six years left at approximately $7.2M.
I would imagine that is fairly standard contract language, for those of us who were wondering similar things earlier in the year about our coach.
Mooney has six years left at approximately $7.2M.
did not look this up so if i have it wrong, just getting old and forgetful, did he not take some northeastern school, iona-type, to several dances and did he not take ga tech to a final four? if so, then he can coach or recruit or something. the guy who replaced him at tech has not really done well either, bring back cremins! maybe larranaga is tiring of south beach and heads back north for the pats.
I don't believe Hewitt was fired because GMU missed the NCAA tourney, 4 straight years. He was fired because, GMU is not a competitive team in the A-10, and apparently the administration lost faith in his ability to improve the situation.
I see a lot of programs, that fire coaches, because the team is not doing well, and the next coach does no better. The ideal is to find a quality coach, and keep them for years. Really helps recruiting.
I see a lot of programs, that fire coaches, because the team is not doing well, and the next coach does no better. The ideal is to find a quality coach, and keep them for years. Really helps recruiting.
I guess that depends how you define a "quality" coach. Can someone be a quality coach if he only makes the NCAA once every 5 or 6 years? In a league like ours, I would say no.
Anthony Grant made the NIT twice and NCAA once in 6 years and was fired because he was not "successful."
Anthony Grant made the NIT twice and NCAA once in 6 years and was fired because he was not "successful."
Grant was fired by Alabama, a P5 program. Given their large budgets, and major recruiting advantages, the kinds of expectations that many here have, may be more realistic. Although, a lot of P5 programs still can't meet them. Look at the numbers.
Given where we are, I think it's nuts to suggest that you would fire a coach for no other reason, than he failed to take the team to an NCAA tourney for four straight years. That's a great way to wind up with a Fordham type program.
What about Ole Jer. He was here 3 years, went to the NCAA, and the NIT. That's a better record, than CM. Should we call him? I think he might be available.
Given where we are, I think it's nuts to suggest that you would fire a coach for no other reason, than he failed to take the team to an NCAA tourney for four straight years. That's a great way to wind up with a Fordham type program.
What about Ole Jer. He was here 3 years, went to the NCAA, and the NIT. That's a better record, than CM. Should we call him? I think he might be available.
If a college basketball program's athletic department is unable to make a quality hire, then 97, your theory would be absolutely correct. Is there inside information that would cause us to believe that UR would make a bad hiring decision?
If an athletic department can improve their program significantly by hiring a terrific coach who is a great fit, then they would be foolish to hold on to an incumbent. An it might be extra foolish to hold on to an incumbent who is only winning slightly more than half his games and can't get his program to the big dance.
If an athletic department can improve their program significantly by hiring a terrific coach who is a great fit, then they would be foolish to hold on to an incumbent. An it might be extra foolish to hold on to an incumbent who is only winning slightly more than half his games and can't get his program to the big dance.
Homer, i think you're a proponent of firing mooney, ostensibly because he isn't getting the job done. Is he therefore a bad hire? If so, then yes, we have evidence that the university would not only, but has already made, a bad biring decision. What's to say they won't do it again and return us to where we were in 2005...
btw, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't carefully consider if our programs are stalled or worse, failing. But I do think we could end up with another Jer Bear. Yikes.
Hewitt was fired because he of his 8-26 in the A10, not because he missed the NCAAs.
Over the same period Mooney was 20-14. Comparing the two is lunacy. Over the past 8 seasons Mooney has had ZERO losing seasons, and has had 1 losing conference record in the A10. There is no other team in the A10 who has done that.
This post was edited on 3/16 7:46 PM by fan2011
Ok, compare Mooney to Anthony Grant then. Grant made two NITs (three if you count this one, which he will not be around to coach) and one NCAA in 6 years. He went 117-85, won 20+ games three times and only had one losing record. He did better the past four years than Mooney did (got his team to two NITs and the NCAA in that stretch) and still was canned because it wasn't good enough.
Meanwhile, we are celebrating an NIT berth.
Meanwhile, we are celebrating an NIT berth.
Dino was fired from Wake after making 2 consecutive NCAA appearances (4 and 9 seed). Wake then falls into obscurity, going from an NCAA powerhouse to a bottom feeder, a much worse program than us over the past 4 years.
Mooney has shown he can get us to the NCAAs, he has shown he can get us to the sweet 16. The administration is more comfortable with Mooney than they are rolling the dice with our program, which is what firing your current coach is. Has our institution shown we can attract a higher quality coach than Mooney? What are the chances we improve with a new hire? What are the chances we get a Paul Hewitt who runs our program into the ground?
We will be in the NCAAs next year, we should have been in AT LEAST the NIT the past two years, but injuries to key players have hampered us. That is bad luck, not bad coaching. Mooney is our guy until rolling the dice is the better option.
This post was edited on 3/16 7:57 PM by fan2011
Mooney has shown he can get us to the NCAAs, he has shown he can get us to the sweet 16. The administration is more comfortable with Mooney than they are rolling the dice with our program, which is what firing your current coach is. Has our institution shown we can attract a higher quality coach than Mooney? What are the chances we improve with a new hire? What are the chances we get a Paul Hewitt who runs our program into the ground?
We will be in the NCAAs next year, we should have been in AT LEAST the NIT the past two years, but injuries to key players have hampered us. That is bad luck, not bad coaching. Mooney is our guy until rolling the dice is the better option.
This post was edited on 3/16 7:57 PM by fan2011
he went 6-11 to finish this year. obviously they don't think he's got them heading in the right direction. and just because they're firing him, doesn't mean that's the right decision either. good coach. not sure they'll get a better replacement. and not sure how much is left on his contract to buy out.
The Gaudio example is a terrible one. They should never have fired a coach who was taking them to the NCAAs. We would not even be having a discussion about this had Mooney taken us to the NCAAs the past two years. But the point is that he has not. And most top-7 programs that do not make the tournament 4 straight years either fire or seriously consider firing their coaches.
I like Chris. I want him to prove it next year. Prove it that our last run wasn't just because of Kevin Anderson.
Looking at the way our roster lines up, I'm concerned that our NCAA draught will be more like 8 or 9 years if it doesn't happen next year.
I'm all in for next season. If the NCAA bid doesn't happen next year, I may need to diversify my hobbies In future winters.
Looking at the way our roster lines up, I'm concerned that our NCAA draught will be more like 8 or 9 years if it doesn't happen next year.
I'm all in for next season. If the NCAA bid doesn't happen next year, I may need to diversify my hobbies In future winters.
thought the gmu hire of hewitt a few years ago was a good match and thought he would be great, did not work. am sure ga tech when they fired him thought they were going to solve their probs but have not. getting fresh blood, does not always work, in fact, may set your program back a number of years, ole jer comes to mind. understand some of the frustration but also know that just flicking the coaching switch is not always the answer. we are not exactly a "10" job, do not always get the guy you want which is what happened in our last search. one can make a list of great young, or old, coaches but does not mean any of them will be interested.
I believe our NCAA run was because of Anderson, Harper, Brothers, Smith and others. We just don't have that kind of talent or energy right now. I hope Mooney can cobble something together for next year that will get us to the NCAA.
I will be there every home and as many away games as possible with friends & family. All in as MO has stated.
I will be there every home and as many away games as possible with friends & family. All in as MO has stated.
As others have said, CM should have until at least next year with a lineup of seniors & juniors to make the NCAA. I really believe we will make the tournament next year, but if we don't, when is enough enough?
CM has shown he can get us to the NCAA's as you have said, but it's been 4 years since. Question - How long does one live off of past achievements before the present kicks in? How many years of not dancing are you comfortable with? Do you not feel confident in our new AD to perform the job he was hired to do - administer our athletic programs at a high level & make good hires when necessary. You don't stay the present because of fear of failure in the future. That's management by avoidance.
Re: your last paragraph - It is great we are in the NIT, and I will be at all the games cheering the team on. But it's a fact that it's not the NCAA tournament. You reference that players get hurt. Hey, it's just part of the the game. When NO went down, it seems we went on a winning run, so your statement seems out of context. Maybe you're referring to last year with Ced, but again...it's the name of the game. Other teams have had injuries & still dance.
Re: your final line about rolling dice. I'd like to think bigger picture and believe that Gill would make calculated, logical & professional moves when / if necessary. Let's give him the credit to make the decisions and run an athletic department as he was hired to do.
ANO gets hurt and we lose close games to GMU and URI that we should have, and most likely would have won. Not to mention he would have been in game shape on Friday and we have a better chance of beating VCU. Then we are in the NCAAs and aren't having this discussion.
Ced gets hurt last year. He was most likely the best player in the A10, and we go from on the bubble to out of the NIT.
DWill gets hurt 2 years ago after averaging 15 points and 8 rebounds and never fully recovers. Even so we are probably in the NIT if not for one of the worst reffing sequences in the history of college athletics. If he and Ced were full strength senior year we would have made the NCAAs.
Yes team lose players to injury sometimes, but we have have lost KEY players (All A10 quality players) to injury each of the past 3 years. That is bad luck, that is not something most programs ever have to deal with.
This post was edited on 3/16 9:03 PM by fan2011
Why do you think we would have beaten Mason with Zo in the lineup? We lost at JMU and at home to Wake and Northeastern with him.
I read a list of excuse above, sorry. Most teams could spout off something similar. Bottom line is, you either make the tournament or you don't. VCU lost its best player and still won the A-10 tournament.
I read a list of excuse above, sorry. Most teams could spout off something similar. Bottom line is, you either make the tournament or you don't. VCU lost its best player and still won the A-10 tournament.
I am a dreamer.
VCU lost a key player then went 5-5 in their next ten games before they finally seem to have adjusted to playing without him. It had a huge impact on their team, they were seriously weaker without a key component until they had time to adjust. That happened to us every year for 3 years, we were weaker every year than we would have been without the injuries, sometimes drastically so. I don't think there is any other team in the country who has had to deal with that for three consecutive years.
With ANO - Shevon Thompson FG%: 50%, Richmond 10 pt win
Without ANO - Shevon Thompson FG%: 75%, GMU OT win
This post was edited on 3/16 9:33 PM by fan2011
Remember when a coach that wins was kept, and a coach that loses gets fired. Now it's if he only did...blah blah blah we keep him.
I suppose things have changed, but not for the better.
I suppose things have changed, but not for the better.
Too many of you are totally unrealistic. I look forward to CM going to greener pastures, and he certainly can. I predict you will learn the meaning of the word, 'mediocre' then. I can only hope the administration is wiser.
You keep a coach that wins, and fires those who lose. We're in the first four out, a 1 seed in NIT, and we're 'losers'? Get real.
You keep a coach that wins, and fires those who lose. We're in the first four out, a 1 seed in NIT, and we're 'losers'? Get real.
ga tech fired hewitt, still paying him, for this? sometimes you don't get what you wished for no matter how great a decision you think you made. same with mason, they are now searching again, trying to find the magic.
COACHING CHANGES
COACHING CHANGES
I'm going to come back to the concept that there are obviously those willing to avoid a change because of the potential that a change will bring less than satsifactory results. So it's better to stick with a known quantity even if the results don't meet a standard or criteria (example - making NCAA tournament every other year or maybe once in a three year timeframe?) I'm not sure that is a criteria for everyone. That runs counterintuitive to sound mangement decision making concepts. Several others have referred to a basketball program being a business, and I agree. In the business world, if you fear the future and are afraid to make change, you get left behind.
We hired a supposed top notch AD. Do you doubt the ability of our new AD to make the decisions that he was hired to do?
I'll repeat. We seem to be in a decent place right now. If we don't dance next year with a probable lineup of 3 seniors & 2 juniors, will that be a reasonable time for serious discusion? Otherwise, I'm afraid that there are those that will always be afraid to confront facts & fear change. That would lead to conclude that there are those that would just let the contract run through duration regardless of us making the tournnament. How many of you who are in management positions manage by complacency or avoidance? I hope none.
This post was edited on 3/17 8:35 AM by SpiderGuy
you use the word fear, i use the word common sense. there come times when a change must happen and times when you feel it should happen. as the AD at ga tech points out, it was not easy for him to come to his conclusion on gregory and sometimes decisions are very difficult. my only point is, just making the change, bringing in someone else does not mean you made the right decision and you may have just set your program back years. certainly, you may have hit a home run and the guy sets your program on fire. at our level, if you did hit that home run, guess what, yep, that guy will be gone very quickly to a power 5 conf or you pay him big bucks to keep him and......yep, you may still be unhappy. luckily, none of us will be making that decision, a professional paid to do this, will have to come to conclusions and whereas we don't include the other thngs, graduation rates, citizenship, how the coach represents the university, he will have to do so. it is not easy, not just hitting a switch and all will be great, just is not.
I HATE perpetuating some of these ridiculous ideas that we get a new coach with another post, but I want to share something. I had a conversation with a BOT member recently during which he described Coach Mooney as "a wonderful ambassador" of our school. I think that is a very important statement and it let me know that it is about more than wins and losses. I, for one, am 100% in agreement with this. We can have both a successful, competitive team and a team made up of true student athletes that represent the school well long after they've stopped playing. Mooney is all about that. I would love to have made the tournament this year and hope and expect to next year. But, we are trying to be more than that and I applaud the school and the athletic department for it. Some of you can whine about the mind numbing list of things you come up with but at the end of the day we are doing pretty damn well.
