George Mason has a Richmond problem

[97spiderfan]

Apparently our neighbors up north have similar issues to us. Unsurprisingly, George Mason is just about as mediocre as we are. Bottom line, if University leadership is not constantly pushing athletics to be better and the best, you are going to fall behind your peers, who leadership is pushing that.

 

[VT4700]

Whatever. Recruit kids and go play. Mason could have won a weak A-10 this year, just like anyone else could, yes Richmond included. Calm down, English. You were there only 2 years. Stop acting like you are leaving because of any frustration. You knew who Mason was when you took the job. You are leaving for more money. I don't blame you one bit for that. But, chill with the higher ups nonsense. What did you expect in your 2 years there?

As for comparing us to Mason, well, our "higher ups" are probably more satisfied than theirs because we just won a conference tourney and a dance game last season. So, if that is "status quo" sign me up.

 

[8legs1dream]

Whatever. Recruit kids and go play. Mason could have won a weak A-10 this year, just like anyone else could, yes Richmond included. Calm down, English. You were there only 2 years. Stop acting like you are leaving because of any frustration. You knew who Mason was when you took the job. You are leaving for more money. I don't blame you one bit for that. But, chill with the higher ups nonsense. What did you expect in your 2 years there?

As for comparing us to Mason, well, our "higher ups" are probably more satisfied than theirs because we just won a conference tourney and a dance game last season. So, if that is "status quo" sign me up.

well those things you mentioned have happened once in the past decade. Is that how you define "status quo" 😂

 

[97spiderfan]

Interestingly, Mason also currently has an "interim AD" since last Fall while they conduct their search for an AD. Remind you of anyone?

 

[VT4700]

Interestingly, Mason also currently has an "interim AD" since last Fall while they conduct their search for an AD. Remind you of anyone?

I don't know, but 24-7, NIT, A-10 tourney title, and a dance win 3 of the last 4 seasons seems a little different than Mason's status quo. Just funny to me that u see this tweet and a comment from English, and your 1st thought is u need to make a thread and get on our program again.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Status quo can’t be hoping for lightning in a bottle bc Tournament Gilly isn’t coming back.

What we get left with is Hardt eating mounds of wings at 9:30 am on a Tuesday in Brooklyn.

5 years of greatest class ever (coach’s words, not mine) produced average A10 finish of 6.2 place and an overall winning % of .557

Include this year and last 6 years are an average A10 finish of 7th place and an overall winning % of .539.

I’m not distracted by the 9:30 am wings, this is mediocrity and I think UR can and should be better. I’m unwilling to sign up for this status quo.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Also if we are now using the GooMoos as a comp, standards have been lowered much too far already.

 

[plydogg]

I don't know, but 24-7, NIT, A-10 tourney title, and a dance win 3 of the last 4 seasons seems a little different than Mason's status quo.

You’re right. Mason’s status quo is 27-8 and a Final Four appearance.

Also, our status quo is a losing record 3 of the last 6 years. For every stat you cherry-pick I can do the same.

 

[bullfrog91]

I don't know, but 24-7, NIT, A-10 tourney title, and a dance win 3 of the last 4 seasons seems a little different than Mason's status quo. Just funny to me that u see this tweet and a comment from English, and your 1st thought is u need to make a thread and get on our program again.

2 of last 4? Forgive me but I'm missing the 3rd....are u counting the missing COVID yr? If so, I would discount that since 2022 likely only happens with the 2020 do over yr.....

 

[VT4700]

You’re right. Mason’s status quo is 27-8 and a Final Four appearance.

Also, our status quo is a losing record 3 of the last 6 years. For every stat you cherry-pick I can do the same.

Absolutely Ply. It's how one wants to look at it, positively or negatively. All good.

 

[VT4700]

2 of last 4? Forgive me but I'm missing the 3rd....are u counting the missing COVID yr? If so, I would discount that since 2022 likely only happens with the 2020 do over yr.....

And, I'm sure everyone would forget that year happened if we went .500 or worse right?

 

[VT4700]

Also if we are now using the GooMoos as a comp, standards have been lowered much too far already.

Tell that to 97. He started the thread, not me.

 

[plydogg]

Here’s the difference between John Beilein and Chris Mooney.

Beilein inherited a 13-15 team and went 23-8 including a tournament win over 3 seed South Carolina.

Mooney inherited a 14-15 team and went 13-17 and then 8-22.

Beilein won with less. Mooney loses with more.

 

[VT4700]

Status quo can’t be hoping for lightning in a bottle bc Tournament Gilly isn’t coming back.

What we get left with is Hardt eating mounds of wings at 9:30 am on a Tuesday in Brooklyn.

5 years of greatest class ever (coach’s words, not mine) produced average A10 finish of 6.2 place and an overall winning % of .557

Include this year and last 6 years are an average A10 finish of 7th place and an overall winning % of .539.

I’m not distracted by the 9:30 am wings, this is mediocrity and I think UR can and should be better. I’m unwilling to sign up for this status quo.

All fair brooklyn. Just how one chooses to look at it. I would take 24-7, NIT, a tourney title and a dance win every 4 years, most everyone on here would probably not. No worries. Just our opinions and we can disagree.

 

[Gospiders06]

It’s just the A-10 is getting weaker by the day. Coaches going for more money is going to happen.

 

[DTSpider]

I feel like I’m missing something - we’ve won an NCAA game every 4 years? I know we won a game last year but it felt like it may have been more than 4 years before that.

 

[plydogg]

97 I think you’re spot on with this post. Kim English has played basketball at elite levels and know what it takes to be a winner.

At Mizzou he went 31-7, 23-11, 23-11, 30-5 for a record of 107-34 as a player. His freshman year they were a 3 seed and lost in the Elite Eight to Uconn (fun fact, I was at that game!). His sophomore year they were a 10 seed and won a game. Junior year they lost in the first round as a 11 seed. Senior year they won the Big 12 Tourney and he was the tournament MVP. They did lose as a 2 seed to 15 seed Norfolk State that year, and Mizzou basketball has never recovered. This is a guy who knows what it is like to not only win but exceed expectations at a school that does not prioritize basketball.

In the 11 seasons since he graduated Mizzou has 5 winning seasons. In the 11 seasons before he got there they had 6 winning seasons. 11/22 without him and 4/4 with him.

Now I’m not saying all that winning is because of him. I’m saying that he was a part of creating a winning culture at a school that before him and after him has not had that culture. If he says the Mason athletic department was satisfied and not looking to improve, it seems like we should listen to him. It doesn’t matter if he has been there 2 years, 2 decades, or 2 days.

Mason has been in the A10 for a decade. They’ve had a winning conference record twice. One was this year under English, in only his second year. The only other time was under Dave Paulsen, and it took him 4 years to do it.

English was doing something at Mason that hadn’t been done since Larranaga was there and the AD is interested in the status quo, Aka not winning.

I don’t know how he’ll do at Providence but I’m rooting for him, I think we lost a pretty good coach and worried that Mason will drop down to the bottom of the conference.

 

[GKiller]

1 ncaa appearance in 11 years is a depressing status quo. And yes our status quo should be higher than the Goo Moos. They had a 2 year coach. We have a coach going into his 19th season. When u have a coach in 1 place that long the expectations should be higher. But we have "transitional" years which for us = losing record. And now we go into a 2nd "transitional" year or some other description that could be worse. It shouldn't take a 4-5 year cycle to ramp up with a 19th year coach. Avoiding transitions or flat out rebuilds is one of the reasons you have a 19 year coach but we are not reaping those benefits which is frustrating.

 

[bullfrog91]

And, I'm sure everyone would forget that year happened if we went .500 or worse right?

Pt is, u don't get credit for 2020 and 2022....without COVID, we have no super srs and likely no NCAA..happy to give one or the other...regardless of record...u only get one of those seasons to brag about

 

[plydogg]

Pt is, u don't get credit for 2020 and 2022....without COVID, we have no super srs and likely no NCAA..happy to give one or the other...regardless of record...u only get one of those seasons to brag about

I do partly agree with this. I think as far as a tourney appearance goes we can only count one, but I count both seasons as counting towards Mooney’s record. Sure, if Covid hadn’t happened then 2022 we don’t have those players. But, if Covid didn’t happen and we make the tourney in 2020 who’s to say we don’t make it again in 2021? Obviously it’s all hypotheticals and we’ll never know, but it isn’t outrageous to think we could have had two appearances.

 

[bullfrog91]

I do partly agree with this. I think as far as a tourney appearance goes we can only count one, but I count both seasons as counting towards Mooney’s record. Sure, if Covid hadn’t happened then 2022 we don’t have those players. But, if Covid didn’t happen and we make the tourney in 2020 who’s to say we don’t make it again in 2021? Obviously it’s all hypotheticals and we’ll never know, but it isn’t outrageous to think we could have had two appearances.

But we didn't make in '21...I don't follow your logic...can you expand further.

 

[gcarter52]

1 ncaa appearance in 11 years is a depressing status quo. And yes our status quo should be higher than the Goo Moos. They had a 2 year coach. We have a coach going into his 19th season. When u have a coach in 1 place that long the expectations should be higher. But we have "transitional" years which for us = losing record. And now we go into a 2nd "transitional" year or some other description that could be worse. It shouldn't take a 4-5 year cycle to ramp up with a 19th year coach. Avoiding transitions or flat out rebuilds is one of the reasons you have a 19 year coach but we are not reaping those benefits which is frustrating.

This is the most sound argument for change. I will admit that I tried finding ways to justify giving one more year. No More!!! 🕷🕷🏀🏀

 

[plydogg]

But we didn't make in '21...I don't follow your logic...can you expand further.

What I’m saying is I believe it’s plausible to say that Covid affected the 2021 season in a huge way and that without Covid the 2021 season may have been entirely different. I think perhaps had we played in and potentially made a run in the 2020 tourney then it could have entirely changed outlook & morale the next season. Going 24-7 and having no payoff was probably a huge disappointment and from a psychological perspective may have changed things.

Like I said though it’s all hypothetical anyways, so there isn’t really any logic I’m using, just imagining and dreaming of what could have been.

 

[bullfrog91]

What I’m saying is I believe it’s plausible to say that Covid affected the 2021 season in a huge way and that without Covid the 2021 season may have been entirely different. I think perhaps had we played in and potentially made a run in the 2020 tourney then it could have entirely changed outlook & morale the next season. Going 24-7 and having no payoff was probably a huge disappointment and from a psychological perspective may have changed things.

Like I said though it’s all hypothetical anyways, so there isn’t really any logic I’m using, just imagining and dreaming of what could have been.

10 4

 

[97spiderfan]

A-10 Records over the past 5 years:

Richmond: 43-40
Mason: 42-42

Are we not them and they not us?

 

[bullfrog91]

A-10 Records over the past 5 years:

Richmond: 43-40
Mason: 42-42

Are we not them and they not us?

We r 1.5 games ahead of them in the standings...we r so much better....lol

 

[spiderman]

Pt is, u don't get credit for 2020 and 2022....without COVID, we have no super srs and likely no NCAA..happy to give one or the other...regardless of record...u only get one of those seasons to brag about

this is where the anti-Mooney crowd goes too far. there's plenty of ammunition if you feel Mooney has failed. you don't need to create more.

we had a great year in 2020. in my opinion we would have danced. Covid happened. the super seniors returning definitely lead to the success of 2022 success like you said, but every player was granted that same option. we didn't have some unfair advantage. our players stayed. not every school can say that. and they succeeded.

2020 and 2022 were both great seasons.

 

[MrTbone]

All fair brooklyn. Just how one chooses to look at it. I would take 24-7, NIT, a tourney title and a dance win every 4 years, most everyone on here would probably not. No worries. Just our opinions and we can disagree.

Actually, I don’t think that’s true, folks probably would be ok with that. Maybe not love it, but be ok.

The problem is that this is not representative of CMs tenure. So recency bias weighs heavy. If it continues, then great. History says it won’t, and this season makes it feel like we’re back to MOTS.

We’ll see I guess.

 

[Wood Hall]

Well whether or not he's right about GMU we will see if English can coach. No lack of resources or will to win at Providence.

 

[bullfrog91]

this is where the anti-Mooney crowd goes too far. there's plenty of ammunition if you feel Mooney has failed. you don't need to create more.

we had a great year in 2020. in my opinion we would have danced. Covid happened. the super seniors returning definitely lead to the success of 2022 success like you said, but every player was granted that same option. we didn't have some unfair advantage. our players stayed. not every school can say that. and they succeeded.

2020 and 2022 were both great seasons.

Not saying they weren't both good seasons...that's indisputable...my pt is 2022 likely doesn't happen if COVID doesn't impact 2020since our roster would've been significantly different.

 

[Spider B]

We know UR doesn't value winning. They have told us to lower expectations and use excuses like transition years to allow underperformance to continue. Sounds like Mason may be in the same boat. If so, both are problems for the A10. Neither school is serious about winning. Both schools may find lightning in a bottle every 11 years or so, but both are really not schools you want in a league serious about winning and finding ways to be successful as a non P5.

 

[Eight Legger]

Amazing that Mason would think that way after making the Final Four! They really botched what should have been an institution-altering accomplishment.

 

[RichmondNative]

A-10 Records over the past 5 years:

Richmond: 43-40
Mason: 42-42

Are we not them and they not us?

Neither school is serious about winning. Both schools may find lightning in a bottle every 11 years or so, but both are really not schools you want in a league serious about winning and finding ways to be successful as a non P5.

I don’t see how others can disagree. Seems like a very valid comparison. Of course, there are differences like the fact that GMU is now caught in the coaching turnover whirlwind, which could suggest that they are one step ahead of UR. They obviously picked a quality coach in English and now have lost him to the P5. It will be interesting to see who they bring in next. It seemed that they did have a list of targets and moved fairly quickly last time. Of course, they don’t have a permanent AD, which is another difference and not a good sign for another solid hire.

I totally agree that this is bad news for the A10. The conference is in need of more winning culture programs. How can it be considered a mid-major with so little recent success? UR joined the A10 to elevate its basketball profile and the conference now resembles the CAA that it left. I really expect VCU, Dayton, or STL to leave in the next round of conference realignment, which will just make the argument stronger.

 

[bullfrog91]

Amazing that Mason would think that way after making the Final Four! They really botched what should have been an institution-altering accomplishment.

Kind of like us after 2010 and 2011......

 

[SFspidur]

Oduro has a COVID year left but has announced he's done at Mason. Word is he's following English.

Polite and Fernandez are also in the portal. Jones too.

 

[97spiderfan]

The A-10 has a bunch of schools who have massive structural issues that prevent them from being serious players in D-1 basketball. I would include Fordham, LaSalle, St. Joes, and Duquesne on that list and while St. Bonnie's has certainly far exceeded expectations under Schmidt, if Schmidt wasn't there, they are probably on that list as well, with their location, revenue, facilities. So, you have 4-5 schools that have a multitude of factors that prevent them from being anything more than a flash in the pan mid major.

Now, of the remainder of the programs, you really need them all to be all in on MBB to make the conference competitive. And so it must be really disheartening to the league to have at least 2 of those members, us and Mason, have a bunch of factors that could make them better players, but their leadership lacks the vision to make it better.

This is why the A-10 is in such a downward spiral. At least half of the schools in the league aren't all in for one reason or another.

 

[Eight Legger]

The league needs UMass and GW to step it up again. A strong GW and a stronger UMass really help stabilize things geographically and just in general.

GW being down for so long has been a head-scratcher to me, given that they were a top-10 team within the not-too-distant past. I think you could throw them into the same pot of not caring as much as they should. There's no reason in Washington, D.C. that you shouldn't be able to sell out a 5,000-seat arena every night and attract some high-level players. They used to do a great job playing to the international pool of talent, given their location, but they haven't done that in awhile.

 

[SpiderK]

View embedded media

Apparently our neighbors up north have similar issues to us. Unsurprisingly, George Mason is just about as mediocre as we are. Bottom line, if University leadership is not constantly pushing athletics to be better and the best, you are going to fall behind your peers, who leadership is pushing that.

University "leadership" will never care about pushing athletics. It will have to be the donating alumni that pushes athletics to be better. The only thing University "leadership" cares about is money and being more woke than the competition.

 

[SFspidur]

Paulsen is getting back to the head coaching business, heading to Holy Cross.

 

[Ferrum Spider]

I'm afraid with the transfer portal our days as a strong conference are over. Typically, the A10 was composed of so many teams that were 3-4 year starters and would have more experience than the p5 teams with the one and dones and could beat them with experience. Since every year there's going to be major roster shakeups now, its nearly impossible to be as crisp and sound on the court season after season. Id argue 2011 CAA was far stronger than the A10 this past year. The only evening out factor is that this isn't exclusive to the A10. Otherwise schools like FAU wouldn't be in the F4. Just look at the teams they beat to make the F4 vs VCU/GMU.