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Fore Injury Status

spider23

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May 31, 2002
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Going on four months since the foot injury. Anyone have the latest. Is he still in a boot? Is he working out, practicing, or is he still quite restricted. When I heard he was in a boot a few weeks back I was very concerned, but I have no idea what or the extent of his injury.
 
Speaking of Fore - anyone want to take a way too early guess on which frosh, none of which played a whole lot this year either because of injury or redshirt - will have the biggest impact next year.

Fore, Smithen, Diekvoss or no one ever mentions Friendshuh
 
someone will have to backup at point. if healthy, I expect Fore. if Wood is what I hope, he picks up a lot of minutes. other than that, unless the freshmen can beat someone out they'll wait a year to replace the seniors.
 
Originally posted by spider23:
Going on four months since the foot injury. Anyone have the latest. Is he still in a boot? Is he working out, practicing, or is he still quite restricted. When I heard he was in a boot a few weeks back I was very concerned, but I have no idea what or the extent of his injury.
He is not longer in a boot and hasn't been for a couple weeks. I haven't been to a practice lately but my informants tell me that he wasn't participating in Scout team. I would think he'll go into the offseason program with the rest of the guys but will have some catching up to do.
 
Beating out our 2 and 3 position should be very easy. Any production there would be a huge bonus.
 
So who would you guys want to play more Fore or Smitten ? Most posters was crying for someone to play and some wishes was granted. Did it satisfy judgements? With a loaded young crop coming in would it be expected for them to take major minutes from a elite 8 postseason NIT squad? IMO only player that will see major minutes will be Wood it Chandler will be used sparingly if foul trouble arise not strong enough or in tune with off/ def as of right now...KF had chance to get six min this year maybe but he's not a shooter that's his liability..he's a good solid of and driver but playing in A10 he has to be more than one dimensional.. Smitten had his chance solid reliever this year but was not aggressive or a offensive contributed..potential unknown but had chances to buzz..has the upper hand on KF as far as experience.. KS was safe player not bad for his role this year..Julius is unknown looks good in HS but we play in A10 we don't know his heart his work ethic his ability to run in MoonDog system . His system can break players.. But at his size and ability I see him challenging JJ for the 2 reserve spot..But no matter what the spot is TD from start..can anyone take it? Not after Nov IMO. Next year starting five sdj td ta mw tj and dt and ano will round out most minutes..jj next ks/kw next for t/o sub x
CD for foul trouble Julius unknown
 
Even if we play all our current players the same amount of time, there are 35 minutes up for grabs in K0s absence. That is a lot of time for the new guys to show us how good they are. If any of them are really good then they may take some minutes from players currently on the roster, but the 35 minute hole will give the new players some time to show off their talents.
 
I just hope there is enough competition in practice to make players better and force CM
to play more players and keep people fresh.
 
Looking at Mooney's track record of playing frosh and what we have returning, I just don't see any incoming FROSH getting a lot of playing time.

35 minutes up for grabs with Anthony graduated can easily be replaced by ShawnDre - played 28 minutes a game coming off the bench, I would expect him to mirror Anthony's minutes next season and play around 35 a night. Josh Jones - only 10 minutes a game this year and really only saw time once ANO went down. I thought he played well at times and I could see him getting up to 15, even 20 minutes if he plays well. Then you got Smithen and Fore, and even throw in Diekvoss coming back off redshirt. Fore got minutes early in the season before injury, then Smithen got time. So I would expect one them gets minutes and who knows about Diekvoss.

Mooney's history is to really only play frosh when we are short on players. Anderson and Gonzo and them played early because of the "bare cupboard". Lindsay played 16 minutes a night and that was an NCAA team, which I think we would expect for next season. Anthony played as a frosh, but again - we were in rebuild mode so he got 25 minutes. Only other one that comes to mind is Brothers, who played as a frosh on NCAA team - and he only got 5 minutes.

Not that I don't think our recruits coming in are any good, but if history is any indicator and with what we have returning - they would really have to beat out a lot of guys to get minutes. In my mind - you have to beat out Smithen, Fore, Diekvoss, and Josh Jones and compete with Trey Davis a little bit. Otherwise - I only see maybe one frosh getting time and it would be limited - maybe 5 minutes a game.
 
NewURfan, have you heard anything about or seen Wood practice? I'm expecting big things based on what we thought of him out of HS. 3 years later he should be ready to roll. great fit here, as a 3/4 with range.
 
I don't consider Fore or Wood freshman and think both will play significant roles in next year's team. Fore was our first freshman off the bench before his injury and clearly will be our back-up PG, if only because he is the only PG on the roster besides SDJ. Besides that Fore is a player and will bring a different element with his speed, ball handling ability when he is in the game.

Marshall Wood is my wild card. I don't see him starting right now, mainly because that is not how CM runs things. I think the starting line up will be SDJ, TD, TA, TJ, and ANO. If Marshall does start well and puts ANO back as the first guy off the bench, than he is a special player for us. I also think if Marshall is able to start that is a bonus from a strict position starter basis as he is more of a traditional 3 player than is Terry.

I do think Marshall Wood will take supplant Deion in the rotational pecking order.
 
Originally posted by fan2011:
Even if we play all our current players the same amount of time, there are 35 minutes up for grabs in K0s absence. That is a lot of time for the new guys to show us how good they are. If any of them are really good then they may take some minutes from players currently on the roster, but the 35 minute hole will give the new players some time to show off their talents.
I think you have to assume that a few guys from this year's lineup will play more minutes (namely SDJ and TJ). Those two alone should play at least another 10 minutes combined a game next year. Now maybe the Deion/Zo/Trey trifecta sees its minutes dip some, but I am not counting on that. We actually need Zo in there more too. So I'd say at best there will be about 25 minutes up for grabs most nights.
 
From what I've seen in practice MW is a player ..now this us only practice and he has been on the scout squad mimicking the best opponents players but MW was killing in practice. He can post he can shoot. IMO he gonna be starting or I'll go out on a limb and say he should start. Wood is gonna be what we want TA to be a dominant scorer who wants the ball.Thinking Wood will be one of our best players next season. Maybe the practice when the scout team just has free play to just attack he looked good nobody on first team could guard him...so that's what I saw..
 
thanks, New. exactly what I wanted to hear. kind of what I expected too.
so back to our ideal lineup:
1 - SDJ
2 - Trey
3 - Wood
4 - Terry
5 - TJ
with a heck of a 6th man in ANO. very good and balanced offensive line-up. strong defensively. pretty big team at 6'8" across the front court and a 6'5" two guard. looks good.
 
Originally posted by NewURfan:
From what I've seen in practice MW is a player ..now this us only practice and he has been on the scout squad mimicking the best opponents players but MW was killing in practice. He can post he can shoot. IMO he gonna be starting or I'll go out on a limb and say he should start. Wood is gonna be what we want TA to be a dominant scorer who wants the ball.Thinking Wood will be one of our best players next season. Maybe the practice when the scout team just has free play to just attack he looked good nobody on first team could guard him...so that's what I saw..
Thanks. I love hearing this. Only quibble is Terry Allen already is a dominant score who wants the ball.

If we can add another guy like that on our roster next year, I am already kind of salivating about the possibility. If we can throw out a line up with SDJ, TA, TJ, and MW and all our legit double digit scoring options, our offense is going to be fantastic. Our offense generated the shots we wanted all year long, it's just we had guys who couldn't execute when given the open look.

NewURfan, any insights on MW's defense, because we all know CM rewards guys who can play defense over offense?
 
Wood defense is questionable again this was practice and Wood was playing against the starting team. The scout team has more freedom than team A. It's stop and go especially when team A missed assignment.. So we won't know his help side recover and straight guarding defense yet until he is mixed in with team A. But offense seems there and we all know we have so call defenders so MW will be shuffling in and out if can not defend. We will see...

On another note.
Walk on Joe was very good also IMO was the best frosh guard bigger stronger and better than KS and KF in practice. When starters wasn't in team B had problems against the scout team. Missing defensive assignments not running the offense correctly.

Third Chandler will be a player junior year. He small frame for his position now and has too much infront off him now to take minutes. If he works hard on off season he make get minutes like JJ fresh and soph years. But again on scout team he was being aggressive look very comfortable against team B.
 
Have you seen a rebounder in any of the newer guys?? They would really stand out if there is one.
 
Originally posted by Eight Legger:
Originally posted by fan2011:
Even if we play all our current players the same amount of time, there are 35 minutes up for grabs in K0s absence. That is a lot of time for the new guys to show us how good they are. If any of them are really good then they may take some minutes from players currently on the roster, but the 35 minute hole will give the new players some time to show off their talents.
I think you have to assume that a few guys from this year's lineup will play more minutes (namely SDJ and TJ). Those two alone should play at least another 10 minutes combined a game next year. Now maybe the Deion/Zo/Trey trifecta sees its minutes dip some, but I am not counting on that. We actually need Zo in there more too. So I'd say at best there will be about 25 minutes up for grabs most nights.
TJ has been averaging over 27 minutes per game for the last 10 games, I don't think he gets much more time than that. SDJ has been averaging over 30 minutes, and may get ~5 more.
 
Originally posted by spiderman:
thanks, New. exactly what I wanted to hear. kind of what I expected too.
so back to our ideal lineup:
1 - SDJ
2 - Trey
3 - Wood
4 - Terry
5 - TJ
with a heck of a 6th man in ANO. very good and balanced offensive line-up. strong defensively. pretty big team at 6'8" across the front court and a 6'5" two guard. looks good.
The buildup seems really good for MW, but I just see CM going with his known quantities & his loyalties. I don't buy that strategy, but I don't see CM starting him over NO or DT. If he's as good as everyone says and projects then 1) he should start or 2) if not then get a fair amount of minutes.
 
Originally posted by NewURfan:
From what I've seen in practice MW is a player ..now this us only practice and he has been on the scout squad mimicking the best opponents players but MW was killing in practice. He can post he can shoot. IMO he gonna be starting or I'll go out on a limb and say he should start. Wood is gonna be what we want TA to be a dominant scorer who wants the ball.Thinking Wood will be one of our best players next season. Maybe the practice when the scout team just has free play to just attack he looked good nobody on first team could guard him...so that's what I saw..
I hope Wood is a player, I really do, but I just don't have the confidence that he will be. When he was at Virginia Tech he was the 8th man on a really bad team. For his career he shot 28.8% from 3 and 38.7% from 2. Wayne Sparrow has better career numbers.

Compare that to our other players career percentages:
TA: 29.4% and 56.9%
TJ: 36.3% and 62.5%
SDJ: 37.8% and 46.2%
ANO: 27.4% and 50.3%
TD: 22.4% and 48.1%
DT: 28.0% and 51.4%
JJ: 32.3% and 56.5%

In the games he has played so far Wood has been a SUBSTANTIALLY WORSE 2 point shooter than EVERYONE currently on our team. He has not been a good 3 point shooter either, shooting under 30% for his career. The only people who have shot worse than him on our team are DT, TD and ANO. If Wood's defense is questionable, as NewURFan has stated, then I really don't see any reason to believe he can step in and improve our team.

Again, I hope I am wrong, I hope Wood can come in and be an upgrade and steal a spot in the starting lineup, I just don't see any reason to believe it will actually happen based on Wood's performance in college.


This post was edited on 3/27 12:21 PM by fan2011
 
Wood stats

As a sophomore Marshall Wood was:

.347% from three
.792% FT
8.9 reb per 40 minutes


This post was edited on 3/27 12:21 PM by CatfishKhan

stats
 
Re: Wood stats


Originally posted by CatfishKhan:
As a sophomore Marshall Wood was:

.347% from three
.792% FT
8.9 reb per 40 minutes


This post was edited on 3/27 12:21 PM by CatfishKhan
Again, I hope Wood is a great player. Unfortunately for Wood career statistics are better at predicting future years performance than previous year's statistics in college basketball.

For example, TA shot 38% from 3 his sophomore year, his career percentage is 29%, and this year he shot 24% which is much closer to 29% than 38%. And next year I expect TA will shoot closer to 30% than 24%. His career statistics are better at predicting future performance, as they are for everyone. This is a phenomenon called regression to the mean.
This post was edited on 3/27 2:35 PM by fan2011
 
I have no idea what kind of player Wood will be for us, but I hope he will be a solid component for the next two years. Otherwise, we shouldn't have spent a scholarship on him.

He pretty much played 15 minutes a game each of his first two years at Tech and averaged nearly 4 points and 4 rebounds each year. Does that mean he would average 8 points and 8 rebounds if he played 30 minutes a game for us? Or more, because he is playing in an easier league, or because he has grown and developed as a player? I have no idea.
Maybe, maybe not.

I will say that the three-point shooting % numbers are not really worth getting worked up over. He was 13-55 his freshman year and 17-49 his sophomore year. He made 4 more and shot 6 fewer his sophomore year, which resulted in the 12% difference. It's not really a huge sample size to deduce much from. Maybe he heaved a couple half-court shots at the buzzer his freshman year that skewed those numbers. Who knows. I would expect him to hit about 30% of his threes for us.
 
Either way, those numbers look like manna from heaven in comparison to our current 3 point shooting percentages we are getting from our small forward position.

I get what Fan is saying but also remember, he was playing out a string on a terrible Tech team with a bad coach, which culminated him saying he was giving up his scholarship at the end of the season.
 
+1, i would be curious to know if he was playing 3 or 4 for them. that's a fair number of 3 pt attempts, so guessing 3...
 
Re: Wood stats

players often progress.
TA made 58% of his FTs as a freshman and 67% as a soph. This year he hit 73%. He continued to improve. He didn't regress to the mean.
similarly, ANO's free throws went from 47% to 55% to 81%.

we can find stats that show whatever we want. Wood was a 3 star guy on rivals (I only say that because I know some here love to see stars). he had some big offers, too.

from 2011 ------------------------
"Virginia, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech, Richmond and VCU are the ones really on the list. He's had others who really like him, like Marquette, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt and Clemson, but he told them right away he wasn't interested.

"Michigan, though, with its history and tradition, intrigues him."

Which is why the Wolverines are still in the running for an official visit.

Though only a three-star prospect, Wood's profile has risen exponentially after a summer in which he emerged as more than just a lanky, catch and shoot forward. He's added 15 pounds of muscle by working out twice daily and he's an inch taller than he was a year ago, Shields reported. He's able to get to the rim with ease, can shoot from long range and has proven versatile on defense.

"It was sort of toward the end of last summer that he started to really come alive offensively," Shields said. "I actually took this job last year in August, and at that point he didn't defend real well, was mainly just a catch and shoot guy who didn't handle it great. He worked really hard this year to develop those things.

"He could shoot the ball well, but he couldn't play with his back to the basket at all, and he couldn't get to the rim at all. He had a nice midrange jumper, but on defense, he had never played man to man, and he didn't do well. He's improved all those things. He can get to the rim any time he wants to now. He's learned how to move offensively, and defensively he's gotten a lot better. This summer he was able to guard guys 6-9, 245 and then keep up with quicker guards. I was very impressed."

Wood will excel at the next level in the right system, and Shields has no doubt U-M's would fit his standout. He's got the frame to add healthy weight, the work ethic and the athleticism to continue to improve. He has so much potential, in fact, that some see him as a future pro.

"He knows where he wants to get, and he's working to get there," Shields said.

Despite the distance, U-M should be a player and could well get an official visit.

"Coach [John] Beilein has been talking to him on the phone, and out of all the guys I've talked to in the past year, he's one of the most considerate, outstanding guys I've spoken with," Shields said.
 
Re: Wood stats

from 9/2011

A strong 3.5 GPA student, Dalton broke down Wood's game in-depth.

"Colleges are recruiting him as a forward, he's a three or a four, he's a hybrid," he said. "He's a four that can play the three.

"He's a very skilled player, very, very long and athletic, he covers a lot of ground whether it be around the goal as he can block a lot of shots and get boards or whether you stretch it to 25 feet, he can really shoot the ball. He has a very good mid-range game. That's probably the best thing about him. His 15 to 18 footer is almost automatic and he's got about a 35 inch vertical, that's going to grow with time."

That is particularly notable since Wood has only been on the AAU circuit for two years and is young for his age just recently turning 17.

"A lot of colleges though he was in the 2013 class," he said. "He's playing against guys that are a year or two older than him in his class. I think he's still growing. Last year at this time he was 6-foot-5 and he's grown two to three inches here in a year."
 
Re: Wood stats

looking at his sophomore season, he got consistant playing time in the OOC but not in conference. maybe they were winning OOC. but in the fall while he was getting regular playing time, he shot 15-37 from 3 (40.5%). that's what I'm looking for here. 2-5 from 3 on a regular basis.
 
I believe he signed with Greenberg and one of the reasons they hired James Johnson is to keep hold of that recruiting class because JJ was on Greenberg's staff at the time of recruitment. That didn't exactly goes as planned on any front.
 
Spiderman. 2 for 5 beats the heck out of the current 1 for 9. How do his free throws look? Better than 45%?
 
Originally posted by SpiderK:
Spiderman. 2 for 5 beats the heck out of the current 1 for 9. How do his free throws look? Better than 45%?
If Wood shoots 40% from 3 and plays starter minutes next year I will be just as happy as everyone else on this board. I just think it is much more likely based on the data we have available that he shoots 30% from 3, which isn't much of an upgrade over TA or ANO. What concerns me the most are Wood's 2pt shooting percentages, which are unbelievably bad. I can't recall ever seeing someone play for more than a couple minutes a game who has 2pt numbers as bad as Wood.

Spiderman, yes players can improve aspects of their game, and we expect them to season to season (ANO and TA certainly have improved in free throw shooting). However, it doesn't change the fact that career statistics are much better indicators of future performance than previous season's statistics. I hope that Wood has improved in which case the 'mean' to regress to is higher than his career numbers indicate, but unfortunately that is not as likely as him putting up numbers closer to his career averages.

We all hope Wood will be very good, I know I do. I just don't think it is reasonable for everyone on this board to assume he will be in the starting lineup. I hope he is good enough, I just don't expect it to actually happen.




This post was edited on 3/27 5:18 PM by fan2011
 
2011, that's twice you've called it a fact that career statistics are much better indicators of future performance than previous season's statistics. you sited one example. I know you can site more just as I can site plenty that show players who's freshman year isn't a good indicator of who they are 3 years later.

when you say fact, is that stated somewhere? maybe it's some commonly known fact that I'm not aware of.

Wood was considered a good shooter in HS. he wasn't bad at all as a soph. he has a weak freshman year. we'll see who he is now, but the guy who actually watched him in practice was impressed. so that's all we have to work with right now.
 
I can tell you sight unseen, that Wood is a better shooter than #11.
 
Career stats probably are a better indicator of future stats than one season's worth of stats are, but the problem here is that Wood is only halfway into his "career." And most players do improve throughout college, as opposed to getting worse.
 
Originally posted by spiderman:
2011, that's twice you've called it a fact that career statistics are much better indicators of future performance than previous season's statistics. you sited one example. I know you can site more just as I can site plenty that show players who's freshman year isn't a good indicator of who they are 3 years later.

when you say fact, is that stated somewhere? maybe it's some commonly known fact that I'm not aware of.

Wood was considered a good shooter in HS. he wasn't bad at all as a soph. he has a weak freshman year. we'll see who he is now, but the guy who actually watched him in practice was impressed. so that's all we have to work with right now.
All I have is my intuition an independent research. I looked at the current crop of A10 juniors and seniors and compared their 2FG% and 3FG% this season with their previous season and career numbers (not including the current season of course.)

The percent difference between the current season's numbers and the previous season are...
2FG%: 0 ± 14
 
Show me DT's progression in scoring from freshman thru Junior years. Just curious as to how much he has improved.

This post was edited on 3/28 12:13 PM by SpiderK
 
I think if Wood can be a strong to the hoop with the dribble this is what is a good thing for our offense because now for some players defense makes a lot of room and this is more difficult for other players. If the defense must guard him then it is good and he can make the free throw . I think that low post game was best strategy that Coach made better this year. This is a big change from other years. And now we see how good it can be. It was a beautiful thing to watch as a fan of basketball. All eyes are now wide open.
 
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