I was thinking we want Bama because St is closer to dance and a bama win helps their net and could help ours. But im not an expert in all of the numbers.
First NET Rankings-#22
- Thread starter LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster
- Start date
While we fell one spot to #50, our team sheet looks improved for a fleeting moment.
https://bracketologists.com/teamsheet/richmond-spiders
https://bracketologists.com/teamsheet/richmond-spiders
Doesn't look bad - but I think we got a lot riding right now on Davidson and VCU.
Davidson has been playing well lately and as a result - has now moved into Quad 1/2 territory. We should be rooting for them to continue to do well as I think a few losses for them might bring them down to a Quad 2 and Quad 3 game.
Also a concern - but not sure if its possible. VCU - is there any chance if their free fall continues they drop out of Quad 1 and 2 Territory and become a Quad 2 and 3 games? Right now they sit at 58 - but with games vs. UMASS and GW and Davidson and Duquesne - if they lose some of these, could they drop below 75 - which is the magic cutoff for Quad 1 and 2 based on home away. GW and UMASS are the biggest concerns - if they lose one of them or both, I can see a major drop for them and this could change our picture in the eyes of the committee.
Davidson has been playing well lately and as a result - has now moved into Quad 1/2 territory. We should be rooting for them to continue to do well as I think a few losses for them might bring them down to a Quad 2 and Quad 3 game.
Also a concern - but not sure if its possible. VCU - is there any chance if their free fall continues they drop out of Quad 1 and 2 Territory and become a Quad 2 and 3 games? Right now they sit at 58 - but with games vs. UMASS and GW and Davidson and Duquesne - if they lose some of these, could they drop below 75 - which is the magic cutoff for Quad 1 and 2 based on home away. GW and UMASS are the biggest concerns - if they lose one of them or both, I can see a major drop for them and this could change our picture in the eyes of the committee.
Davidson clawing their way into the Top 75 is helpful. Though I'd like to see an Atlantic 10 team get a 1 seed, we should probably root for the 'Cats to pull off the upset this weekend.
Oklahoma (soundly) beating Texas Tech was not helpful.
I am torn with Davidson this weekend. They are playing well and Grady is back to his old self putting up big numbers for them. And don't forget about McKillop - if there is anyone in the A10 who can come up with a plan to try and stop or slow down Dayton - I would put my faith in him first. The issue is - Dayton has so many weapons. While I think Davidson can put up a good fight, with this game now being on ESPN with Dickie V in attendance - I just see Dayton playing like a #1 seed this weekend and winning this game. I think they have been cruising a little lately and as a result, some games closer than they should be. But I think this weekend they turn it up again.
Aside from a 30 point effort by Grady - I see Dayton winning this one.
Aside from a 30 point effort by Grady - I see Dayton winning this one.
The question is, if Davidson wins their home game (VCU) and loses the two away (Dayton, UR), do they stay where they are?Then there is Brooklyn...
I think going 3-0 vs Davidson and having them 74 afterwards would be nice.
In other A-10 play tonight
Would wins by
UR
Duquesne
SLU
URI
VCU
be the most beneficial? Even if I have a difficult time cheering for many of those teams...
That seems to keep us Top 3 A-10 while keeping as many teams as possible Top 75 NET.
I think going 3-0 vs Davidson and having them 74 afterwards would be nice.
In other A-10 play tonight
Would wins by
UR
Duquesne
SLU
URI
VCU
be the most beneficial? Even if I have a difficult time cheering for many of those teams...
That seems to keep us Top 3 A-10 while keeping as many teams as possible Top 75 NET.
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Don't overthink it. Richmond @ GW is more important than all five of those games, combined.
As for Davidson, I think you still want them to move solidly higher. While their current position "pads" the Quad records nicely, the committee isn't going to give anyone that much extra credit if they finish #75 vs. #76.
I think Davidson has a chance to stay top 75 if they lose to Dayton and us, and beat VCU. A 3rd quad 1 win would be great for us, and get us a little closer to all these bubble teams who have 5 or more. Looking at your teams above, seems pretty accurate to want them to win. The higher the NETs for these teams, the better our conference looks, and the better our conference looks, the better we look.
Duquesne is at SBU. An SBU loss makes it more difficult for us to be a 4 seed instead of 2/3, but hopefully doesn't push our SBU loss into Quad 3.
Agree. We definitely want Duquesne tonight. I don't think we need to worry about SBU being 136 or lower. They are 113 now, and might not even drop if they lose to Duquesne.
Margin of victory and loss sure does seem like it is more important than what we might think. Davidson beat LaSalle by 25 and moved up 4, and LaSalle dropped 12! Is it really capped at 10 for the winning margin? I have my doubts.
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Yes, it's capped at 10, and it's the least important component. Efficiency metrics are going to love a 25 point win.
Also, 3 of the 4 teams Davidson passed lost last night. The other was idle.
I'd be more dubious if they didn't move ahead of those teams.
Also, 3 of the 4 teams Davidson passed lost last night. The other was idle.
I'd be more dubious if they didn't move ahead of those teams.
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Win or lose, so many teams stay about the same in NET this late in the year. Yet, Syracuse beats Pitt by 24 and moves up 8 while Pitt drops 9. Ark. beats Tenn by 17 and moves up 5, while Tenn drops 5. The rules say there is a cap at 10, but I can't but wonder if there is a glitch. I have seen it too many times already.
If not, they sure do put a lot of weight on margin of victory. Look at PSU beating Rutgers by 1 and Fla beating LSU by 15. Both winners played at home and all these teams were right near each other in NET going into the game. PSU drops 1 and Rutgers stays the same, while Fla gains 2 and LSU drops 4 after their games last night.
If not, they sure do put a lot of weight on margin of victory. Look at PSU beating Rutgers by 1 and Fla beating LSU by 15. Both winners played at home and all these teams were right near each other in NET going into the game. PSU drops 1 and Rutgers stays the same, while Fla gains 2 and LSU drops 4 after their games last night.
VCU down to 61 - hate to say it but we need them to win a game or two before season ends. If they lose last 3 games - and that is possible, they could drop below net 75, which is the key for UR resume in terms of Quad 1 and 2 status. We need them to stay in Quad 1.
The thing is we don't want Davidson to drop 3, SLU to drop 6, or VCU to drop 15...
I like having the possibility of Quad 1 (3-4) Quad 2 (3-2) heading into Brooklyn...
So I guess margin of victory counts toward NET because there is no other way to explain that.
Remember how some people on here that Vandy was a good get for us and would be better this year. Yeah, they've won 1 SEC game (which I suppose is 100% better than 0 they won last year, but still). Pro-tip, the Vandy game is gonna suck next year too.
I did say "nearly" lol. Shows how terrible those two teams are.
we're 21-7, and we'll dance if we take care of the final regular season games and one A10 tournament game.
why are we complaining about our schedule?
why are we complaining about our schedule?
Just don't schedule Longwood, Hampton, Radford, Liberty, Christopher Newport. Sweetbriar and we're good.
Who's complaining about our schedule? I thought they were complaining about NET.
Well, UVA was one of the teams that passed us, and they beat a better team by the same margin.
It's one of the factors, of course.
Its obviously a bigger factor than once thought. And silly imo because of late fouling in most close games. A team can be up two with a minute left and get 8 free throws and win by 10. I dont think other ranking systems used mov in the past. Committee’s of the past never did. A win was a win.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...s-wish-the-selection-committee-still-used-rpi
Good read and big focus on A10. Not good news though. Again shows how different the NET is and discusses margin of victory.
This article really shows how much the NET is favoring the P6, not deserving either. Minnesota for instance at .500 is 44 NET but is 99 RPI.
This is a quote from the article...
"Remember that note about the A-10's top six teams having a combined NET rank 121 spots lower than their RPI? For the 14-team Big Ten, its combined NET rank is 323 spots higher."
That is just crazy. NET is a joke. Really has to be disheartening to mid-majors. The P6 teams just play each other and their rankings hardly change and who knows how good they really are.
Because even the mediocre teams in the leagues have high NET rankings, no loss is a bad loss and all wins are good wins.
Damn AZ just lost to USC and scored only 48 points. USC now will jump way up in NET. I think we would have killed AZ tonight.
Seems like the system is rigged at this point and hopeless for a team like ours. I was almost sure that if we won out and won a game in A10 we would get a bid but after realizing how rigged the NET is now to p6 teams, I dont think that will be good enough.
Good read and big focus on A10. Not good news though. Again shows how different the NET is and discusses margin of victory.
This article really shows how much the NET is favoring the P6, not deserving either. Minnesota for instance at .500 is 44 NET but is 99 RPI.
This is a quote from the article...
"Remember that note about the A-10's top six teams having a combined NET rank 121 spots lower than their RPI? For the 14-team Big Ten, its combined NET rank is 323 spots higher."
That is just crazy. NET is a joke. Really has to be disheartening to mid-majors. The P6 teams just play each other and their rankings hardly change and who knows how good they really are.
Because even the mediocre teams in the leagues have high NET rankings, no loss is a bad loss and all wins are good wins.
Damn AZ just lost to USC and scored only 48 points. USC now will jump way up in NET. I think we would have killed AZ tonight.
Seems like the system is rigged at this point and hopeless for a team like ours. I was almost sure that if we won out and won a game in A10 we would get a bid but after realizing how rigged the NET is now to p6 teams, I dont think that will be good enough.
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Sorry for another "THE NET SUCKS" post but I had to.
The more you look into the NET the more complete garbage it is. For example AZ is 7 at 19-8 and if you look at their OOC it was total cupcake city except for Baylor and Gonzaga, both losses, plus a loss to bad St. John's. Only good win is Illinois at home. And then they are 9-6 in a mediocre PAC12, yet they are ranked 7 in NET??? WTF???
If someone can look at their record and justify that ranking please explain.
So now because AZ is illegitimately ranked 7 without merit (and its obvious) they completely bolster the rest of the league because the six teams that beat them all get a HUGE win and if you lose to them it probably still helps your ranking.
Even one illegitimate ranking skews the whole rankings but there are examples of this crap everywhere in this system. Its total garbage. You can't make heads or tails of how the system works and what rewards teams. I mean Auburn is 24-4 and 27th and AZ is 19-8 and 7th and if you compare resumes there is no way you can say that is justified.
The more you look into the NET the more complete garbage it is. For example AZ is 7 at 19-8 and if you look at their OOC it was total cupcake city except for Baylor and Gonzaga, both losses, plus a loss to bad St. John's. Only good win is Illinois at home. And then they are 9-6 in a mediocre PAC12, yet they are ranked 7 in NET??? WTF???
If someone can look at their record and justify that ranking please explain.
So now because AZ is illegitimately ranked 7 without merit (and its obvious) they completely bolster the rest of the league because the six teams that beat them all get a HUGE win and if you lose to them it probably still helps your ranking.
Even one illegitimate ranking skews the whole rankings but there are examples of this crap everywhere in this system. Its total garbage. You can't make heads or tails of how the system works and what rewards teams. I mean Auburn is 24-4 and 27th and AZ is 19-8 and 7th and if you compare resumes there is no way you can say that is justified.
Up 1 spot this morning to #52 with Indiana loss dropping them past us.
It's an interesting read; Kerry kind of buried the lede, though. His conclusion:
He does the same thing within each of his examples, for instance:
Oh really? Four Quad 3 losses are not good? No wonder Cincy wants to go back to RPI.
Look, I get why some of you think the NET "sucks," but it seems like you're incorrectly assuming the NCAA/Committee is using the NET to select teams for the tournament. That is not the purpose of the NET - they use it to sort the teams into the quadrants on each team sheet. They are not just going down the NET list and plugging teams into the tournament.
I highly recommend you listen to the Ken Pomeroy segment on the March Madness podcast where he explains this. He's surprisingly not nerdy and it's a reasonably short segment.
Again, while the NET may seem "punitive" to mid-majors in their rankings, it is not "rigged" to keep them out of the tournament.
We only have one year of "history" to go on, but this is what happened last year, which bears this out:
- 7 Mid-Majors got at-large bids under the first year of NET. 5 Mid-Majors got at-large bids under the last year of RPI.
- #33 NC State, #34 VCU, #35 Clemson. VCU was a lock to get in the tournament, NC State and Clemson went to the NIT.
- #47 Belmont and #56 Temple got at-large bids over better-ranked P6 teams, including the 2 ACC teams listed above.
- Houston would have been a 1 seed if they just selected by NET; they were given a more appropriate 3.
Our resume is the same, regardless of the ranking system you look at: a 21-7 team with a mildly soft schedule that's a little too skewed to the right side of the team sheet for comfort. Only one bad loss. Those of you agitating for them to scrap or "fix" the NET so that the Big 10 isn't ranked so well, are basically asking them to take the very best thing on our resume (our win over Wisconsin) and make it less impressive!
Oral Roberts beat 5-20, #334 NET West. Illinois 113-70 last night. They improved 15 spots in the NET, and passed four of our opponents. They can say there is a cap at 10 for margin of victory, but I'm not buying it. No way. Too much evidence every night to dispute that.
Not going to try to justify it - AZ was too high. Again, it's not that big of a deal. I highly doubt they were in line for a 2 seed. Most brackets have them as a 6. Saying their OOC was "total cupcake city except [oh, 2 #1 seeds]" might be a bit much.
Auburn's ranking is suffering because of two things:
Five overtime wins (mentioned in the article). They flipped a coin five times and came up heads every time.
Talk about OOC cupcake city. They played nobody. ZERO Quad 1 games. We're their best win.
Despite the wide disparity in their NET rankings, Auburn has a better seed than Arizona in almost every bracket projection.
Wow. Look hard enough for UFOs and black helicopters, you'll eventually see them.
How did the teams surrounding those two do in their last games? That has more to do with their NET....never mind, why would anyone give a **** about the NET of two crappy Summit League teams anyway. You should probably lodge a complaint at 1-800-NET-NCAA.
One thing to remember too is that efficiency is one of the factors of NET ranking. So if a team wins by 25 their margin of victory impact is capped at 10, but their offensive and defensive efficiency numbers might improve by enough to be an even bigger factor in their overall ranking.
Then, that is a problem too if they give you that much efficiency credit for beating a 5-20 team by 43 points. That is likely the glitch I have been talking about because when you rout a team like that, of course your efficiency numbers will be good. So, it really does pay off to run up the score. It just doesn't add up when NET 157 Radford wins by 3 and drops 5 to 162, while a NET 161 Oral Roberts beats a 5-20 team by 43 and moves up to 146, making them quad 3 game for Wichita instead of a quad 4. Teams that win or don't even play should not get passed by a team that beat a 5-20 team.
There probably is some tweaking that needs to be done to NET. That does seem to be an extraordinarily odd jump with VT4700's example. However this is one of the reasons some were concerned about letting off the gas earlier in year at Davidson for example. We could have beat them by 15+ but won by 6. But the game was definitely closer to the former than the latter. Others said what's the big deal we won stop complaining. Well it kinda is a big deal when you're dealing in slim margins.
I realize this a NET discussion first but it certainly correlates to scheduling. Sman you are talking about winning 25 games. In that scenario above highly likely we finish 2nd in A10. And we're still not a lock! If you win 25 games and finish 2nd A10 you should really always be in. And I think we should and better be. But I'd wouldn't feel completely comfortable. Why because our OOC. Win the last 4 and 1 in tourney, 25 wins and still don't make - with the A10 commissioner on the committee? Quite easy to figure out the problem. So yeah it's a complaint, we f'd up there but I've said it since schedule was being developed so I'm sure you're quite shocked by my take.
Well, if we miss the tourney this year, we know which rating to put on the banner.
