Expectations

[spider23]

Good morning ! Celtics play great team basketball yes? something nice to watch . I am enjoying your posts.

Yes, agree Celtics are fun to watch. Have to say, despite Oldies affection for the Rockets offense, I find it ugly to watch. Too much dribble in one place. Now your turn dribble in one place.
Broc, I find your expectations very reasonable. If we are not shooting for something close then why charter, pay coach 1.2 mil, renovate RC, and build 15 mil practice facility. And move to A10. We are not expecting to dominate every year, but now whenever it is time for a good two year run we don't have enough players.

 

[Spider B]

The reason many can’t find much positive to say about UR basketball is that the program is a total disaster right now. CM has not won enough games, pure and simple. People are sick and tired of the mediocrity, not to mention last years dreadful record. The roster is a mess with the lack of upperclassmen becoming a trend. I’m not sure how anyone can argue this program has met expectations since the back to back NCAA years that are now a distant memory. Sorry, but the fact is many of us are out of patience.

 

[spider23]

Wow, I was just thinking how hard it has been for us to have two + type interior players lately. Now we basically have Golden and a cast of unknowns.
2010-2011 Roster had Geriot, Harper, Dwill, Darius Garrett, and Fezz favorite Duinker. Mooney could recruit when so motivated. I mean two all time greats in Geriot and Harp, our most athletic big ever in Garrett. Dwill was a good get at that time. And Duinker, who you probably remember (I do) Mooney was publicly touting as a potential ROY when he first came over.

 

[I-M-UR]

stop with the name calling

Huh? who did he call what name?

 

[urmite]

Wow, I was just thinking how hard it has been for us to have two + type interior players lately. Now we basically have Golden and a cast of unknowns.
2010-2011 Roster had Geriot, Harper, Dwill, Darius Garrett, and Fezz favorite Duinker. Mooney could recruit when so motivated. I mean two all time greats in Geriot and Harp, our most athletic big ever in Garrett. Dwill was a good get at that time. And Duinker, who you probably remember (I do) Mooney was publicly touting as a potential ROY when he first came over.

For some reason reading the above made me think of this...

23: "If you're the Coach, where are your Bigs?"

Mooney: "Bigs? We ain't got no Bigs. We don't need no Bigs. I don't have to show you any stinkin' Bigs!

{just a parody in case anyone doesn't get it}

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

"Naming names" would get him banned. But, you knew that.

I'd love to see more civility on here.
Eight Legger has vanished. (Banned? Vacation? IDK)
Mo is gone again.
The two most-liked members in all of SpiderNation - fans that bleed red and blue and care deeply about the success of our programs - and they've been run off. Congrats, or something.

 

[ur2K]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

 

[spider23]

"Naming names" would get him banned. But, you knew that.

I'd love to see more civility on here.
Eight Legger has vanished. (Banned? Vacation? IDK)
Mo is gone again.
The two most-liked members in all of SpiderNation - fans that bleed red and blue and care deeply about the success of our programs - and they've been run off. Congrats, or something.

i HaVE inTeL oN ThEir whEReAbOUts. I aM sTilL LoOkINg foR DtSspider, HaVE Not sEen iN YEarS.

Keep the faith Broc, its all cyclical I told my friend during the Dooley years. This is just a long cycle unfortunately.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

The reason many can’t find much positive to say about UR basketball is that the program is a total disaster right now. CM has not won enough games, pure and simple. People are sick and tired of the mediocrity, not to mention last years dreadful record. The roster is a mess with the lack of upperclassmen becoming a trend. I’m not sure how anyone can argue this program has met expectations since the back to back NCAA years that are now a distant memory. Sorry, but the fact is many of us are out of patience.

Succinct and best paragraph written by anyone in a while. Thank you for expressing the true feelings
of many of us diehards that bleed blue and red.

 

[MrTbone]

Maybe. One might counter with what value is there in keeping three good or even great players if their best efforts still result in repeated losing seasons?

There’s no simple answer when it comes to a coaching change.

 

[Captain Anderson]

I would suggest keeping Mooney.. think we lose our big 3 if he leaves

We would never be able to attract a coach as good as Mooney. We better ride out this momentum he has us on. I'd hate to become irrelevant nationally.

 

[spiderman]

Maybe. One might counter with what value is there in keeping three good or even great players if their best efforts still result in repeated losing seasons?

There’s no simple answer when it comes to a coaching change.

when has their best effort resulted in repeated losing seasons?

 

[97spiderfan]

when has their best effort resulted in repeated losing seasons?

Last year and this year. This thing is in Mooney's hands, if we have a second straight losing season, I think the decision even for a risk averse place like UR is pretty darn easy.

Likewise, Mooney can save his job by putting together a good season that delivers postseason play (CBI does not count).

 

[keefusb]

I am going into Dooley-era mode. When CM is gone, I will purchase season tickets again, and start going to games. Until then, I wish the players the best of luck, but not buying tickets and staying away from the RC is the only way I can think of that expresses my dissatisfaction in a way that the AD will understand.

Our team will be hard pressed to even replicate last year's dismal showing, about the only redeeming factor in all of this is that VCU is down too, and odds are decent for sweeping them again.

 

[spiderman]

Last year and this year. This thing is in Mooney's hands, if we have a second straight losing season, I think the decision even for a risk averse place like UR is pretty darn easy.

Likewise, Mooney can save his job by putting together a good season that delivers postseason play (CBI does not count).

if we have a 2nd straight losing season, sure. I get that the bar is set low but I don't see a losing season. there are question marks for sure, but I think a few will come through. and I think we have 3 of our all-time most talented players at the 1, 3 and 5. we'll win more than we lose.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Ok we have talent back, but there is some ball handling and defense from Buck and Kwan that will
be hard to replace. We are an injury away from a total disaster with the returning 3 starters. Due to fact
CM redshirted and did not play so many freshmen and with little working knowledge of the newbies, there
is unbelievable amount of uncertainty that permeates around next season.

When Summer pickup games begin, I hope we can get some feel from local Spiders as to a REALISTIC
view of things vs a "Ulla" view. No offense Ulla but you are just too darn optimistic at times. The fact is
to a large degree, we are starting over with a vast majority of our team and there are just too many unknowns
to get overly pumped up that this will be a breakthrough year with post season success.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Ok we have talent back, but there is some ball handling and defense from Buck and Kwan that will
be hard to replace. We are an injury away from a total disaster with the returning 3 starters. Due to fact
CM redshirted and did not play so many freshmen and with little working knowledge of the newbies, there
is unbelievable amount of uncertainty that permeates around next season.

When Summer pickup games begin, I hope we can get some feel from local Spiders as to a REALISTIC
view of things vs a "Ulla" view. No offense Ulla but you are just too darn optimistic at times. The fact is
to a large degree, we are starting over with a vast majority of our team and there are just too many unknowns
to get overly pumped up that this will be a breakthrough year with post season success.

Agree. An injury would be disastrous, even serious foul trouble for one of the Big 3 will put this bunch in a situation where they are unlikely to win.

 

[97spiderfan]

Agree. An injury would be disastrous, even serious foul trouble for one of the Big 3 will put this bunch in a situation where they are unlikely to win.

And I would argue that while our Big 3 are all pretty dynamic offensive players, but all are average to below average defenders.

 

[gcarter52]

Ok we have talent back, but there is some ball handling and defense from Buck and Kwan that will
be hard to replace. We are an injury away from a total disaster with the returning 3 starters. Due to fact
CM redshirted and did not play so many freshmen and with little working knowledge of the newbies, there
is unbelievable amount of uncertainty that permeates around next season.

When Summer pickup games begin, I hope we can get some feel from local Spiders as to a REALISTIC
view of things vs a "Ulla" view. No offense Ulla but you are just too darn optimistic at times. The fact is
to a large degree, we are starting over with a vast majority of our team and there are just too many unknowns
to get overly pumped up that this will be a breakthrough year with post season success.

I am right there with Ulla. We need people who are optimistic and believe in our better angels that we will be much better than many here thinks!!!

 

[gcarter52]

Oh, we are going to have a renaissance in our defensive play this season.

 

[I-M-UR]

We would never be able to attract a coach as good as Mooney. We better ride out this momentum he has us on. I'd hate to become irrelevant nationally.

Momentum?????
I hope that was dripping with sarcasm

 

[Captain Anderson]

Momentum?????
I hope that was dripping with sarcasm

More sarcasm than we had rain the last few days.

 

[whampas]

And I would argue that while our Big 3 are all pretty dynamic offensive players, but all are average to below average defenders.

And become worse defenders when they're playing to not foul.

 

[VT4700]

Ok we have talent back, but there is some ball handling and defense from Buck and Kwan that will
be hard to replace. We are an injury away from a total disaster with the returning 3 starters. Due to fact
CM redshirted and did not play so many freshmen and with little working knowledge of the newbies, there
is unbelievable amount of uncertainty that permeates around next season.

When Summer pickup games begin, I hope we can get some feel from local Spiders as to a REALISTIC
view of things vs a "Ulla" view. No offense Ulla but you are just too darn optimistic at times. The fact is
to a large degree, we are starting over with a vast majority of our team and there are just too many unknowns
to get overly pumped up that this will be a breakthrough year with post season success.

I don't think our defense was very good with Buck and Khwan last year, so I do not think it is a stretch to say we could end up playing better defense this year with a different lineup.

A lot of teams would be in big trouble if one of their top 3 got injured, so every team needs to worry about that.

I do not think Ulla is being "too darn optimistic at times". We are definitely not starting over. If you compare our returning 5 guys who played last year with most other teams, you will see that plenty of teams play 8 guys, and lose 3 in the off season, and only return 5 who played. Some teams teturn even less than that. The difference for us is we have our best 3 players from last year returning, they each play different positions, they each played a lot last year and gained valuable experience, and they are arguably as good as anyone at their position in the A-10. Things are looking real good.

 

[Gospiders06]

The challenge is we basically saw no production from the bench last year. Besides JJ and Cayo I have no idea what the true talent is from the bench. Losing athletic players like Buckingham and Khwan are going to show. Being realistic at this point is to expect 14 wins next year. If we somehow win 20 games next year. Mooney is the greatest coach ever. Because, we have struggled with our non-conference schedule the past few years. Even with SDJ and TJ Cline we lost to teams like Oral Roberts.

 

[keefusb]

JG to me is a mixed bag for us defensively. He had a great season from a steals perspective, but like many other small PGs we have had he was a liability on switches.

Plus, I was never one to correlate steals to being a great defender. Briante Weber was touted as a great defender (Defensive POY in the A10) mostly based on steals. The Lambs' system really set him up for that. But in my opinion he wasn't a true "lock-down" defender. To me a lock-down defender is someone like Tony Dobbins or Kevin Smith. I don't see JG fitting that category.

 

[Dre4three]

I like GG, JG and NS a ton and hope they are poised for great seasons. I have no idea what to expect from the new guys arriving, but let's make the (unrealistic) assumption GG/JG/NS have crazy good scoring averages that total 60 ppg (this has never happened in Mooney's tenure at UR - never had a 20 ppg scorer or 3 players total 60 ppg). Where are the points going to come from? I know if I'm an opposing coach developing a game plan against UR, I'm going to effectively eliminate one of those 3 scoring options and see if JJ or Cayo can beat me.

Don't think it is necessarily fair to develop expectations for next season's team just yet. I'm very curious to see how the guys play because I know chemistry matters (perhaps this team will have it), but objectively looking at what we currently know doesn't indicate significant improvement.

 

[VT4700]

JG to me is a mixed bag for us defensively. He had a great season from a steals perspective, but like many other small PGs we have had he was a liability on switches.

Plus, I was never one to correlate steals to being a great defender. Briante Weber was touted as a great defender (Defensive POY in the A10) mostly based on steals. The Lambs' system really set him up for that. But in my opinion he wasn't a true "lock-down" defender. To me a lock-down defender is someone like Tony Dobbins or Kevin Smith. I don't see JG fitting that category.

I disagree. Steals do indicate great defense, are very important, and a lot of them lead to lay ups. Anytime you can cause a team to give up a possession without even getting a shot off, that is huge.

 

[spiderman]

Where are the points going to come from? I know if I'm an opposing coach developing a game plan against UR, I'm going to effectively eliminate one of those 3 scoring options and see if JJ or Cayo can beat me.

I think that's a lot easier said than done. our big three can all really score. if you look at our 2010-11 team, we had 2 offensive stars in Harper and Anderson. why didn't teams just eliminate one of them? they couldn't. it wasn't because they were worried about Kevin Smith. our 5th starter that year averaged 4 ppg.

I seriously don't think offense will be a problem at all. if we can just get back to capably defending, we'll be a winning team.

 

[Gospiders06]

The difference is 2010-2011 we had five seniors on the team. And Justin Harper was an NBA prospect. That is the best team we have had in a while.
To think next year its going to be a smooth ride is being too positive. Look at the past history you basically can figure about 14 wins. Usually an 18 win season goes to a 20 win season.

 

[spiderman]

The difference is 2010-2011 we had five seniors on the team. And Justin Harper was an NBA prospect. That is the best team we have had in a while.
To think next year its going to be a smooth ride is being too positive. Look at the past history you basically can figure about 14 wins. Usually an 18 win season goes to a 20 win season.

agreed, having seniors was a key back then and we don't have that now. but I think that's a bigger factor defensively than offensively. we'll score plenty.

I keep reading about how much we can or can't improve from a 12 win season. I don't think last year was a 12 win team talent-wise. things went poorly for sure. it's accurate to say we were what we were and we only won 12. but I don't think it's accurate to say that if we're equally talented next year we'll win 12 games.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I don't think our defense was very good with Buck and Khwan last year, so I do not think it is a stretch to say we could end up playing better defense this year with a different lineup.

A lot of teams would be in big trouble if one of their top 3 got injured, so every team needs to worry about that.

I do not think Ulla is being "too darn optimistic at times". We are definitely not starting over. If you compare our returning 5 guys who played last year with most other teams, you will see that plenty of teams play 8 guys, and lose 3 in the off season, and only return 5 who played. Some teams teturn even less than that. The difference for us is we have our best 3 players from last year returning, they each play different positions, they each played a lot last year and gained valuable experience, and they are arguably as good as anyone at their position in the A-10. Things are looking real good.

VT I would not want you placing a bet for me at a horse track. I am using reason and a realistic look at how unproven we are. Taking HS or AAU film and comparing it to a live college game is like night and day. I hope Bryce and Tomas are ready to prove themselves to Spidernation, but then if I look at Mooney's history of playing redshirts, then I have very guarded optimism. Show me, prove to me we have the right extra weapons outside of Golden, Gilyard and Sherrod, and I will gladly promote you as the greatest sports guru.

My optimism is very guarded at this point until Spider recruits are more than glorified bench splinters.

 

[nathanw19]

I disagree. Steals do indicate great defense, are very important, and a lot of them lead to lay ups. Anytime you can cause a team to give up a possession without even getting a shot off, that is huge.

Steals are a tricky stat. Yes, they’re certainly beneficial, and having a high steal total certainly doesn’t mean you’re a bad defender. But at the same time, they’re not exactly an indicator of good defense.

My best example of this was Rondo with the Celtics. He had great steal numbers, and people started calling him a great defender. Except he was doing what I call “hero defense,” in that he was going for the steal or nothing, and many times that led to lay ups for the other team. Good defense, in my opinion, is making your opponent work for everything they get, which leads to poor shooting percentages and ultimately opponents fatigue (which leads to turnovers).

Now I’m not saying gilyard plays hero defense (I think his steals are mostly due to his quickness and sneakiness, not selling out for a steal). However, his height will never allow him to be an elite defender (in my opinion), because teams will look to isolate and take advantage of that mismatch. Ultimately, limiting those mismatch situations will be on Mooney and the defensive scheme.

 

[gcarter52]

Steals are a tricky stat. Yes, they’re certainly beneficial, and having a high steal total certainly doesn’t mean you’re a bad defender. But at the same time, they’re not exactly an indicator of good defense.

My best example of this was Rondo with the Celtics. He had great steal numbers, and people started calling him a great defender. Except he was doing what I call “hero defense,” in that he was going for the steal or nothing, and many times that led to lay ups for the other team. Good defense, in my opinion, is making your opponent work for everything they get, which leads to poor shooting percentages and ultimately opponents fatigue (which leads to turnovers).

Now I’m not saying gilyard plays hero defense (I think his steals are mostly due to his quickness and sneakiness, not selling out for a steal). However, his height will never allow him to be an elite defender (in my opinion), because teams will look to isolate and take advantage of that mismatch. Ultimately, limiting those mismatch situations will be on Mooney and the defensive scheme.

I don't see it that way Nat, I can only look back to Mugsy Bogues of Wake Forest...he was an elite defender and Jacob is taller than him....I believe you are selling him short....His steals has not lead to easy baskets for opposing teams...

 

[Ulla1]

I don't see it that way Nat, I can only look back to Mugsy Bogues of Wake Forest...he was an elite defender and Jacob is taller than him....I believe you are selling him short....His steals has not lead to easy baskets for opposing teams...

I'm with ya, gcarter.

 

[SpiderDaMan]

JG to me is a mixed bag for us defensively. He had a great season from a steals perspective, but like many other small PGs we have had he was a liability on switches.

Plus, I was never one to correlate steals to being a great defender. Briante Weber was touted as a great defender (Defensive POY in the A10) mostly based on steals. The Lambs' system really set him up for that. But in my opinion he wasn't a true "lock-down" defender. To me a lock-down defender is someone like Tony Dobbins or Kevin Smith. I don't see JG fitting that category.

Huh? Ask the guys in the NBA he glues up. I don't get this post. Not being a homer, but really?

 

[Ulla1]

Huh? Ask the guys in the NBA he glues up. I don't get this post. Not being a homer, but really?

Foremost, Weber was a criminal thief.

 

[Spider B]

Oh, we are going to have a renaissance in our defensive play this season.

How so? Based on what?

 

[keefusb]

Huh? Ask the guys in the NBA he glues up. I don't get this post. Not being a homer, but really?

He has spent most of his time in the G-League..."G" for "Glues up"?

 

[Dre4three]

I think that's a lot easier said than done. our big three can all really score. if you look at our 2010-11 team, we had 2 offensive stars in Harper and Anderson. why didn't teams just eliminate one of them? they couldn't. it wasn't because they were worried about Kevin Smith. our 5th starter that year averaged 4 ppg.

I seriously don't think offense will be a problem at all. if we can just get back to capably defending, we'll be a winning team.

Yea 2018-2019 team to 2010-2011 team is not even close to being comparable (yet), individually or as a team. As Go said, we had a ton of experience and proven role players that could spare points and minutes to help KA and Harper. Not to mention 2010-2011 was an elite defensive team to go along with best player at UR this century. JG had a tremendously successful freshman season but he’s not even close to what KA meant to the program as a senior.

I’m not a chicken little and hopeful for a better season, but the starting points on both sides of the court and the off-season prior for 10-11 team and 18-19 team are very different.