Dayton 87 Richmond 79 - We Couldn't Stop the Flyer Runs

[mojo-spider]

we needed an almost perfect game to beat Dayton, but it just wasn't to be...Coach Mooney warned during the week that the Flyers made scoring blitzes commonplace and avoided scoring droughts...we saw it first hand tonight...

after Obi Toppin woke up with the Spiders leading 28-24 in the first half the Flyers offense was almost unstoppable until they had built the 18 point lead...I can't imagine any team coming from that far back to beat Dayton...they just never stop scoring...

Richmond cannot beat Dayton when the Flyers shoot 53% from the field and their defense holds us to 39%, despite our shooting over 50% from three point range...

this loss to the #7 team in the country was a missed opportunity to bolster our at-large chances, but it shouldn't punish us too much...I hope we don't see them again until the Championship Game at Barclay's in Brooklyn...they're pretty damn good!

I liked our fight to come back in the first half from the opening Dayton run and again toward the game's end...particularly Gilyard, Sherod and Cayo...and how about Burton?...he can tell his kids and grand kids that he wasn't afraid to take it straight at Toppin...impressive!

I hope our confidence and poise weren't rattled by this one...we should be able to go into Broad Street Tuesday and stir things up...

Go Spiders!

 

[VT4700]

They had one more run than we did, and that was the difference.

They jumped out with an 11-2 run. We then went on a 26-13 run. They answered with a 16-4 run to end the half.

In the 2nd half, we each had a run. They went 24-12 to go up 20, and we went 19-7 to get it to 8 with just under 4 minutes left.

Dayton beat Georgia by 19 and VT by 27, and lost to Kansas in OT. They are a legit top 5 or top ten team.

 

[nathanw19]

We just missed too many open looks and bunnies tonight. I thought the fight was there, but really could’ve used Blake to help break up the end of the first half 16-2 run. That was an absolute killer.

 

[Spider Bob79]

I agree Nathan. We missed a ton of shots at point blank range-right there! Some rolled out, some were just hurried. On the other side, Dayton not only made their bunnies, some were emphatically slam dunked. That said, Dayton is a fantastic team. Crutcher was great from long distance, and Obi was Obi inside. But their whole starting 5 is very good. That run after we were up 28-26 was a killer.

 

[I-M-UR]

I agree Nathan. We missed a ton of shots at point blank range-right there! Some rolled out, some were just hurried. On the other side, Dayton not only made their bunnies, some were emphatically slam dunked. That said, Dayton is a fantastic team. Crutcher was great from long distance, and Obi was Obi inside. But their whole starting 5 is very good. That run after we were up 28-26 was a killer.

I was watching on tv and couldn't determine why we missed so many bunnies, were they blocked, were we fouled, were we just to fired up?

 

[bullfrog91]

I was watching on tv and couldn't determine why we missed so many bunnies, were they blocked, were we fouled, were we just to fired up?

Probably a number of factors...rushed, pressured, lack of concentration/aim. Dayton is a helluva team but certainly not unbeatable.

 

[Hanca]

Missed in paint because Dayton so big had to alter shots. Not used to playing against this type of size inside.

 

[ur2K]

And SLU was too big/ athletic and we play another athletic team on Tuesday. These are teams in our league, got to be able to play with them if we ever want to sniff an NCAA bid.

 

[Eight Legger]

We just missed too many open looks and bunnies tonight. I thought the fight was there, but really could’ve used Blake to help break up the end of the first half 16-2 run. That was an absolute killer.

It's maybe weird to say this, but I can't really get a sense for whether we would have done better or worse with Blake in there. Sometimes we have enough possessions because he just comes up and fires away, misses and that's that. Other times obviously he sticks a three. I guess I feel like the game probably would have ended around the same way whether he played last night or not. Gilyard and Sherod probably score less than 50 combined in that case and maybe we scored last night on some of the would-have-been empty possessions , which probably counterbalances the points Francis would have scored. Who knows.

I will say that having a third three-point shooter is probably a requirement to beat Dayton, provided of course that all three are on.

 

[spider23]

And SLU was too big/ athletic and we play another athletic team on Tuesday. These are teams in our league, got to be able to play with them if we ever want to sniff an NCAA bid.

Yes, agree, I have been banging this drum for years now. We moved to the league, let's recruit like the top of the league. Good start with Burton, and Crabtree transfer. I think he is a legit sized athlete for his position. Not saying I wouldn't take Gilly and Francis every day of the week and twice on Sunday, but we need some bigger athletes inside to really take the next steps. That said, I think we can take second place in the A10. Would love to see us come out and control the game at VCU Tuesday. If we do that we are in great shape. Only other really scary game to me is at SBU. Duquesne is awful as usual, and we have the tie breaker vs URI, and I think they are more susceptible to losing games that they shouldnt.

 

[RichmondNative]

It's maybe weird to say this, but I can't really get a sense for whether we would have done better or worse with Blake in there.

I agree. The team is different with Blake, but I don't think that difference would have changed the outcome of this particular game.

 

[Gallipoli]

IMHO, Golden, Cayo and Burton missed shots that they would ordinarily make. It appeared that they were mentally affected by the inside presence of Dayton.

 

[SpiderK]

I agree. The team is different with Blake, but I don't think that difference would have changed the outcome of this particular game.

Dayton had no fear of our outside shooting other than Gilyard and Sherod. They slufffed off of Cayo, Burton, Goose and packed in on Grant. I do think Blake’s presence would have opened that up more for us.

 

[8legs]

It's maybe weird to say this, but I can't really get a sense for whether we would have done better or worse with Blake in there. Sometimes we have enough possessions because he just comes up and fires away, misses and that's that. Other times obviously he sticks a three. I guess I feel like the game probably would have ended around the same way whether he played last night or not. Gilyard and Sherod probably score less than 50 combined in that case and maybe we scored last night on some of the would-have-been empty possessions , which probably counterbalances the points Francis would have scored. Who knows.

I will say that having a third three-point shooter is probably a requirement to beat Dayton, provided of course that all three are on.

Eight,
Team is playing hard and getting more from our bench, but taking 18 points out of the starting lineup and replacing it with someone who barely scores (AG 0 points last night) will disrupt rhythm and cause droughts. Andre is a very good defender and very athletic but not a reliable 3 point shooter and although he can get close to the rim he sometimes has trouble finishing. He needs the pull up 2 point shot than Jake W seems to have found. Blake can create a shot when we need one and although occasionally out of control we will have difficulty beating a physical team without him. Proud of our effort last night!

 

[MrTbone]

They had one more run than we did, and that was the difference.

They jumped out with an 11-2 run. We then went on a 26-13 run. They answered with a 16-4 run to end the half.

In the 2nd half, we each had a run. They went 24-12 to go up 20, and we went 29-17 to get it to 8 with just under 4 minutes left.

Dayton beat Georgia by 19 and VT by 27, and lost to Kansas in OT. They are a legit top 5 or top ten team.

Is 29-17 really a run? That’s closer to a half than a run I think.

 

[VT4700]

Is 29-17 really a run? That’s closer to a half than a run I think.

Good catch, and it was actually a 19-7 run for us that ended with just inside of 4 minutes left, and not 29-17. I have corrected it. Thanks.

 

[Eight Legger]

Eight,
Team is playing hard and getting more from our bench, but taking 18 points out of the starting lineup and replacing it with someone who barely scores (AG 0 points last night) will disrupt rhythm and cause droughts. Andre is a very good defender and very athletic but not a reliable 3 point shooter and although he can get close to the rim he sometimes has trouble finishing. He needs the pull up 2 point shot than Jake W seems to have found. Blake can create a shot when we need one and although occasionally out of control we will have difficulty beating a physical team without him. Proud of our effort last night!

I don't think we are subtracting Blake's points and adding in Goose's. More like subtracting Blake's and adding back more for Gilyard and Sherod.

 

[Eight Legger]

What really did us in was that 87-79 run Dayton went on. I kept waiting for us to go on a similar one, but it just never happened.

 

[urmite]

I don't think we are subtracting Blake's points and adding in Goose's. More like subtracting Blake's and adding back more for Gilyard and Sherod.

I would say a bigger combination more Goose minutes so less opponent points, more Woj minutes so his added points, then adding greater points from Gilyard & Sherod...

 

[CarolinaSpider]

It's maybe weird to say this, but I can't really get a sense for whether we would have done better or worse with Blake in there. Sometimes we have enough possessions because he just comes up and fires away, misses and that's that. Other times obviously he sticks a three. I guess I feel like the game probably would have ended around the same way whether he played last night or not. Gilyard and Sherod probably score less than 50 combined in that case and maybe we scored last night on some of the would-have-been empty possessions , which probably counterbalances the points Francis would have scored. Who knows.

I will say that having a third three-point shooter is probably a requirement to beat Dayton, provided of course that all three are on.

We had 15 more shots than UD so the opportunities were there, we just had opportunities at key times to change or continue momentum, that we shot a blank. Blake would have scored and been help on defense, but other guys did well. I think the one person that did not have the offensive game we needed, was Grant.

 

[SpiderK]

I was glad to see Tyler Burton go to the basket strong a couple of times. He missed once and was blocked the other, but he wasn’t afraid.

 

[urmite]

We had 15 more shots than UD so the opportunities were there, we just had opportunities at key times to change or continue momentum, that we shot a blank. Blake would have scored and been help on defense, but other guys did well. I think the one person that did not have the offensive game we needed, was Grant.

We shot 34% from 2. Under 50% against Alabama and Radford(?!?), are there any others?

 

[SpiderTrap]

We play Dayton 10 times and probably beat them twice. They are very good and have good balance. Obi is their best player but they don’t force it to him. But he also knows exactly when go on his own t get a bucket.
To me it seemed like Dayton just had another gear we couldn’t match. It was like UR was playing full speed the entire game and they were cruising and were go to that next gear if we got close.
I am not sure of Francis makes much of a difference because he is not a great defender and he might make a few more shots but I think Dayton can easily counter.
Dayton is not unbeatable. But I think it will take an off night by them to lose in the A10.

 

[GKiller]

Dayton will take a couple losses in A10 play. We had our opportunity & didn’t get it done.

 

[PhillySpider]

Dayton will take a couple losses in A10 play. We had our opportunity & didn’t get it done.

Hard to see where those Dayton losses are coming from at this point. Really only two possibilities and that's @VCU and @ URI. But they are vastly better than either of these teams. Sure they will have an off night somewhere along the way, but they'd have to be terrible to lose any other game on their schedule and I figure they win at least one of the 2 tough road games (and win both if they play anything close to the level they have been playing at). Especially if they lose @VCU, I think they have something to prove @RI after that and would pummel URI. I'll go for one loss, but its 50/50 to me they run the table. They have to feel like they are playing for a one seed as well if they can run the table.

 

[97spiderfan]

Hard to see where those Dayton losses are coming from at this point. Really only two possibilities and that's @VCU and @ URI. But they are vastly better than either of these teams. Sure they will have an off night somewhere along the way, but they'd have to be terrible to lose any other game on their schedule and I figure they win at least one of the 2 tough road games (and win both if they play anything close to the level they have been playing at). Especially if they lose @VCU, I think they have something to prove @RI after that and would pummel URI. I'll go for one loss, but its 50/50 to me they run the table. They have to feel like they are playing for a one seed as well if they can run the table.

Any losses by Dayton will require them to an off night and also combine that with another teams best night. .

I thought Grant had a very poor game. Going against Toppin will do that to you, but he had at least two opportunities to hammer home some emphatic dunks that would have gotten the crowd really going and he chose soft lay-ups instead, at least two of which didn't go in. This is why he gets labeled soft because he is 6'10 260 guy and he is trying to finesse stuff around the hoop all of the time. If your that big, tall, and strong, gotta drop the hammer some times. Maybe he also draws some fouls on Obi if he goes hard at them but never gonna get a foul fading away from 4 feet.

 

[spiderman]

it's not about being soft or strong. if Grant was the kind of physically freakish athlete Toppin is he'd dunk 150 times a year too. he's not. but he's a really good basketball player and he plays really hard. we're still very lucky to have him.

 

[97spiderfan]

it's not about being soft or strong. if Grant was the kind of physically freakish athlete Toppin is he'd dunk 150 times a year too. he's not. but he's a really good basketball player and he plays really hard. we're still very lucky to have him.

So, are you saying he can't dunk? Cause I'm pretty sure he can, but he would rather finesse the ball into the hoop rather than hammer it home. And when your the biggest guy on the court every night, that is not using your physical attributes to their maximum potential.

 

[gospidersgo]

we're still very lucky to have him

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. But we can be happy we have him and appreciate his talent, while at the same time discussing his deficiencies and wishing he would improve.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Really only two possibilities and that's @VCU and @ URI.

Looks like the only chances for sure.
That would put a damper on UR's chances of being the 2nd A10 team to get a bid. That's why Sat's game was so important. I would assume a 17-1 Dayton would stay top 5 NET? Rooting real hard for Flyers those 2(3) games.

 

[spiderman]

So, are you saying he can't dunk? Cause I'm pretty sure he can, but he would rather finesse the ball into the hoop rather than hammer it home. And when your the biggest guy on the court every night, that is not using your physical attributes to their maximum potential.

yes, he can dunk. when in the clear. not over guys. not around guys. he's not a "pop" kind of leaper.
you seriously think anyone "would rather" finesse than dunk? that's not even a question. everyone would rather dunk.

 

[spider23]

I'm not on Grant is soft bus. But to answer sman's question, Jordan used to get pi$$ed at Stacy King for not dunking. And he could but would rather save himself.
Hopefully Mooney's load management has Grant primed for a big game tomorrow.

 

[97spiderfan]

yes, he can dunk. when in the clear. not over guys. not around guys. he's not a "pop" kind of leaper.
you seriously think anyone "would rather" finesse than dunk? that's not even a question. everyone would rather dunk.

Yes, when I see him pass up dunk opportunity after dunk opportunity for a lay-up, I would say that is his M.O. He had at least 2 dunk opportunities in the Dayton game where he didn't have anyone in his way and he didn't. There were several in the St. Louis game as well.

Has Grant dunked this year? I'm sure he has but I can't recall one off the top of my head.

 

[spiderman]

yes, he has. clear on a breakaway with two hands.
he's worked hard to be the best athlete he can be. he's just not the kind of athlete you want him to be. he takes the quick layup to avoid being blocked. if he could pop up and dunk over guys he would.

 

[VT4700]

yes, he has. clear on a breakaway with two hands.
he's worked hard to be the best athlete he can be. he's just not the kind of athlete you want him to be. he takes the quick layup to avoid being blocked. if he could pop up and dunk over guys he would.

If Grant were the athlete some on here wanted him to be, he would be at a power school or getting ready for the NBA. And, if Grant were not so skilled and did not do some many things well, he would be just another college big who could not get any playing time. I appreciate everything Grant does, and we are very lucky to have him.

 

[KE Spider]

If Grant were the athlete some on here wanted him to be, he would be at a power school or getting ready for the NBA. And, if Grant were not so skilled and did not do some many things well, he would be just another college big who could not get any playing time. I appreciate everything Grant does, and we are very lucky to have him.

4700, agree with everything you say in this post and most particularly the last sentence... but Come On - at 6 10 he is capable of dunking against most opponents and should rather than taking contorted english, reverse lay ups that often lip out.

Appreciate you Grant! Love you Grant! But dunk the ball every chance you get! Make a statement for yourself! Make a statement for the team!

Give em the Golden flush!

 

[whampas]

4700, agree with everything you say in this post and most particularly the last sentence... but Come On - at 6 10 he is capable of dunking against most opponents and should rather than taking contorted english, reverse lay ups that often lip out.

Appreciate you Grant! Love you Grant! But dunk the ball every chance you get! Make a statement for yourself! Make a statement for the team!

Given the Golden flush!

According to Spiderman, Grant is the only 6'10" guy in the country that can't dunk. We need to bring in Mugsy to give him some lessons.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Now if he only gets a haircut like his brother and loses the girl's headband along with the Amish beard, he might gain a couple inches vertical.

I mean if you're going to go head covering, try to look like one tough SOB who ain't backing down from anyone.

 

[spiderman]

According to Spiderman, Grant is the only 6'10" guy in the country that can't dunk. We need to bring in Mugsy to give him some lessons.

no no, you guys are right. he doesn't dunk often because it's too showboaty. he doesn't want to offend the defender.
and I assume you meant Spud.

 

[whampas]

no no, you guys are right. he doesn't dunk often because it's too showboaty. he doesn't want to offend the defender.
and I assume you meant Spud.

No, I meant Mugsy, who had a 40+ vertical but couldn't dunk because he couldn't hold on to the ball. Everybody has an excuse. Spud won an NBA dunk contest if memory serves.