Burton

[spider23]

Kid has had a great freshman year. Every game does some things that make you say "WOW" and get off the couch. Super job. I would say he is about 93.5 % the athlete and player K Smitty was as a freshman. Really thought Kevin could be an NBA player if he could take the next step. Never quite got there, but remained one of my favorite Spider players to watch for all 4 years and had a HUGE impact on winning each and every game he played.

Now, my question for Burton is: Will you get in the gym every spare minute and be the next Newman? Is this your passion.

I think Burton has the inherit skill level (not sure K Smith had that god given ability) AND has the that top 5% athletic ability to be an NBA level player. Will be interesting to see the next 3 years. I am certainly pulling from him and this will have a direct impact on our program next three years.

Listened to an interview today with Brian Dutcher - coach of no.4 nationally ranked SDSU (which for the record has the exact same number of top 100 ranked HS players as the Richmond Spiders). One of the biggest things he mentioned to their success is that a large percentage of the players are gym rats, living at the gym outside of practice hours, and willingness of team members to give up numbers for success of the team. I do think we have a few gym rats on this team, if Burton is one, the sky is the limit for him.

 

[spiderjpo]

Agree on all statements about Burton. The difference between Smith and him is Burton is two inches taller with same elite athleticism but better overall basketball skills regarding shooting form and use off off hand. Sky is the limit for him. He is also pushing Sherod and Cayo for minutes which helps all parties compete for playing time as well as keeping them fresh.

 

[GKiller]

Stud. Now please find him more minutes. I don’t think that’s been said by anyone.

 

[SpiderK]

Stud. Now please find him more minutes. I don’t think that’s been said by anyone.

He should get all Grace’s minutes.

 

[whampas]

Agree on all statements about Burton. The difference between Smith and him is Burton is two inches taller with same elite athleticism but better overall basketball skills regarding shooting form and use off off hand. Sky is the limit for him. He is also pushing Sherod and Cayo for minutes which helps all parties compete for playing time as well as keeping them fresh.

Loved his volleyball offensive rebound and putback. That's when I knew VCU was doomed.

 

[spiderman]

He should get all Grace’s minutes.

?
no, he shouldn't back up the 5.

 

[PhillySpider]

?
no, he shouldn't back up the 5.

I think there are times when playing him and Nathan together when Grant sits and leaving Grace and Sal on the bench might make sense. A group of JG, BF, AG, TB, NC can do some things defensively and in transition that would be a very different look for us. Its always good to have this as a possibility. Remember the GS Warriors "death" lineup had zero bigs and the Rockets recently played an entire NBA game without a single minute going to anyone over 6' 6". At the NBA level they did this. I wouldn't advise it for us as more than a change up if for no other reason than GG is clearly one of our top 5 and needs to get minutes accordingly. But I think its a good option. What is does is get more minutes to our best players. Right now, we are giving minutes to Grace and Sal over people who are clearly better players. Most teams we see (excluding say Dayton) I'd dare them to show me they can exploit that lineup before I'd let them dictate to me not playing my best guys! To be clear on one other thing too - - - he's already a vastly superior rebounder to either Grace or Sal so not so sure we are even all that "exploitable"! I do get we don't need him getting beaten to a pulp by a guy like Obi, but we don't really see that too much!!

 

[VT4700]

No one should take Grace or Sal's minutes unless it is one of them passing the other. Grant is asked to do a lot both offensively and defensively, and they are asked to do what Grant does minus the scoring when they come in. Burton would have to learn all of these things if we wanted him to back up Grant. I would rather Burton continue to be Burton, and not worry about learning new stuff.

 

[spiderman]

Remember the GS Warriors "death" lineup had zero bigs ...

my only argument here would be that the GS lineup still had a very good defensive 7 footer that likes to call himself shorter for some reason.

I don't know what Houston's thinking but I guess if you can put up 130+ it doesn't matter if you defend the post.

I prefer Tyler coming in for Nathan or Nick. it's not always about putting your best 5 on the floor. we did that a couple years ago. 5 good players but a poorly constructed lineup. it didn't work.

I'm a huge Burton fan. I agree he's a better all around player than Matt or Sal. but he's not a 5 and either is Nathan. Matt does some good things that don't get appreciated here. and it's only a few minutes while Grant gets a blow. he's not killing us out there like some say. he's getting better.

 

[GKiller]

so every single lineup has to have either Grant, Sal, or Grace? No I don't buy that. That's coaching. A small lineup defensively with Burton, Goose, Cayo, Francis and Gilyard I'd love to see once in a while. Cayo could play the high post if needed.

 

[nathanw19]

so every single lineup has to have either Grant, Sal, or Grace? No I don't buy that. That's coaching. A small lineup defensively with Burton, Goose, Cayo, Francis and Gilyard I'd love to see once in a while. Cayo could play the high post if needed.

This has been done already, though it’s mostly late game situation while pressing.

 

[GKiller]

This has been done already, though it’s mostly late game situation while pressing.

Thought I had seen it...but not close to enough. Just means u can run it before it gets to that point too. It's a better option than an automatic Grace/Sal subbing imo.

 

[spiderman]

I saw enough of the small lineups with Gilyard, Fore, Buck and Nick playing together. that "should" have worked too but it didn't. I prefer being 19-6.

 

[VT4700]

so every single lineup has to have either Grant, Sal, or Grace? No I don't buy that. That's coaching. A small lineup defensively with Burton, Goose, Cayo, Francis and Gilyard I'd love to see once in a while. Cayo could play the high post if needed.

Then, you are asking Nate to learn all of the stuff Grant does. I really don't think we want Nate or Burton worrying about learning and practicing all the stuff Grant does. They just need to keep doing what they do.

 

[VT4700]

I saw enough of the small lineups with Gilyard, Fore, Buck and Nick playing together. that "should" have worked too but it didn't. I prefer being 19-6.

Speaking of Buck, he is averaging five points a game his last eight games, with games of 0, 0, 2, and 2. He is shooting . 287 from 3, and CSB is 11-15.

 

[spider23]

#FreeBuck

 

[97spiderfan]

Then, you are asking Nate to learn all of the stuff Grant does. I really don't think we want Nate or Burton worrying about learning and practicing all the stuff Grant does. They just need to keep doing what they do.

It's basketball. Were not launching a guy to a moon and suddenly telling the launch control guys to fly the space shuttle.

 

[KWeaver]

I think there are times when playing him and Nathan together when Grant sits and leaving Grace and Sal on the bench might make sense. A group of JG, BF, AG, TB, NC can do some things defensively and in transition that would be a very different look for us. Its always good to have this as a possibility. Remember the GS Warriors "death" lineup had zero bigs and the Rockets recently played an entire NBA game without a single minute going to anyone over 6' 6". At the NBA level they did this. I wouldn't advise it for us as more than a change up if for no other reason than GG is clearly one of our top 5 and needs to get minutes accordingly. But I think its a good option. What is does is get more minutes to our best players. Right now, we are giving minutes to Grace and Sal over people who are clearly better players. Most teams we see (excluding say Dayton) I'd dare them to show me they can exploit that lineup before I'd let them dictate to me not playing my best guys! To be clear on one other thing too - - - he's already a vastly superior rebounder to either Grace or Sal so not so sure we are even all that "exploitable"! I do get we don't need him getting beaten to a pulp by a guy like Obi, but we don't really see that too much!!

I, for one, really like this idea very much. Speed kills!

 

[GKiller]

I saw enough of the small lineups with Gilyard, Fore, Buck and Nick playing together. that "should" have worked too but it didn't. I prefer being 19-6.

well only of 1 of those guys is the same and he was a freshman in yours. I can assure u I'm not proposing it as an option to make our record worse if that makes u feel better.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Oh, good. We're back to taking shots at our former players.

 

[URWilk110]

Then, you are asking Nate to learn all of the stuff Grant does. I really don't think we want Nate or Burton worrying about learning and practicing all the stuff Grant does. They just need to keep doing what they do.

You're right we should make our players as one dimensional as possible so we don't have any options in case of foul trouble, injury, poor play, etc. If Grant had to miss time for any reason you would really rather Grace and Sal pick up all those minutes and not give a large portion to Burton?

 

[GKiller]

It's basketball. Were not launching a guy to a moon and suddenly telling the launch control guys to fly the space shuttle.

Exactly, and as Philly mentioned it's not our base lineup but more of a change of pace. we've used successfully for pressing b4. These guys are around the coaches and court for countless hours. And ok play Cayo inside as part of a four out 1 in offense. Go post up Nathan, that's not hard at all. 4 out 1 in everyone knows these days, we have lot of elements to our sets of that anyway. It's more of defensive get out in transition lineup anyway. I just agree a Sal/Grace sub for Golden does not have to be automatic.

 

[spider23]

Well, back to my original thought - at some point Burton's best position is the wing for us. I get it, now - and even next year - its hard to take Nick out. I agree, he has had some great games at big times. But looking down the road, if we have two legitimate big athletes inside - AND Burton on the wing - that is a team more built like a p6 than an A10. That's my dream roster and you compensate for smaller guards, not that Gilly or Francis have needed much help handling their business this year. Also think for Burton's long term potential needs to be a wing player. He is showing he has the innate skills to be able to develop into a 50/40/80 type of shooter if he keeps working.

 

[GKiller]

#FreeBuck

Still say pretty good chance he's at VCU next year

 

[VT4700]

Exactly, and as Philly mentioned it's not our base lineup but more of a change of pace. we've used successfully for pressing b4. These guys are around the coaches and court for countless hours. And ok play Cayo inside as part of a four out 1 in offense. Go post up Nathan, that's not hard at all. 4 out 1 in everyone knows these days, we have lot of elements to our sets of that anyway. It's more of defensive get out in transition lineup anyway. I just agree a Sal/Grace sub for Golden does not have to be automatic.

This would be fine for most teams, but we use our big differently than most teams. You are not giving Grant nearly enough credit for what he has to do every game, both offensively and defensively, and I think Grace is doing a very good job backing up Grant. He seems to be separating himself from Sal a little bit, possibly because he has a better grasp of the offense and defense. But, I think both can still help us. It is not as simple as just showing Burton and Nate a few things and saying go back up Grant. It's just not. Basketball is such a team sport. When one of the five messes up, it affects everything. Now is not the time to start playing around with lineups, and asking guys to try to do something they might not be that comfortable with. Nate and Burton are fine where they are.

 

[GKiller]

This would be fine for most teams, but we use our big differently than most teams. You are not giving Grant nearly enough credit for what he has to do every game, both offensively and defensively, and I think Grace is doing a very good job backing up Grant. He seems to be separating himself from Sal a little bit, possibly because he has a better grasp of the offense and defense. But, I think both can still help us. It is not as simple as just showing Burton and Nate a few things and saying go back up Grant. It's just not. Basketball is such a team sport. When one of the five messes up, it affects everything. Now is not the time to start playing around with lineups, and asking guys to try to do something they might not be that comfortable with. Nate and Burton are fine where they are.

Where did I not give Grant credit? Again this would be a few minutes of a different look with different set. The whole change is too hard thing got us into trouble in the first place. Part of the reason we're 0 for the last 8 NCAAs. You can't be a one trick pony. Most all of us want to see Burton get more minutes and maybe this a way. There is something to getting your best players on court the most. I think Grace is doing a nice enough job too but obviously I'm not out on a limb here with these thoughts. Gotta be adaptable. Most importantly, gotta make the NCAA. I think it could help but certainly Mooney's call.

 

[VT4700]

I hear you, but maybe try this in the off-season. Definitely not now. Burton is just a freshman and probably still learning some of his other roles on offense and defense. We don't need to throw more at him now. Nate keeps getting better and better and developing his game more and more. Now is not the time to add something else to his plate.

What I mean by not giving Grant enough credit is thinking it would be easy to put a guy who has never done what he has done in his spot. Grace has done this for 2 years, and he's getting much better, but is still learning. Sal is just learning this year, and still has a ways to go. 19 - 6 is pretty dang good. We just need to keep doing what we're doing.

 

[spiderman]

Also think for Burton's long term potential needs to be a wing player. He is showing he has the innate skills to be able to develop into a 50/40/80 type of shooter if he keeps working.

that 40 is aggressive. form looks good. not sure where the ball is going sometimes though. we'll see if he finds outside consistency.

I want to get Burton more time too but Sherod is just too good a perimeter shooter to take off the floor. gets even tougher next year with Crabtree available. I just don't agree with putting your best 5 on the floor regardless of position. that was my point about the lineup with 4 guards 2 years ago. we would have been better off playing Cayo at the 4 with Fore coming off the bench, even though Fore was the better player. most talented 5 does not mean best team.

 

[urmite]

that 40 is aggressive. form looks good. not sure where the ball is going sometimes though. we'll see if he finds outside consistency.

I want to get Burton more time too but Sherod is just too good a perimeter shooter to take off the floor. gets even tougher next year with Crabtree available. I just don't agree with putting your best 5 on the floor regardless of position. that was my point about the lineup with 4 guards 2 years ago. we would have been better off playing Cayo at the 4 with Fore coming off the bench, even though Fore was the better player. most talented 5 does not mean best team.

Both Goose and Burton look good on their threes but neither is dropping consistently yet.

Crabtree did hit 18-47 in AAC games as freshman...

 

[GKiller]

I want to get Burton more time too but Sherod is just too good a perimeter shooter to take off the floor. gets even tougher next year with Crabtree available. I just don't agree with putting your best 5 on the floor regardless of position. that was my point about the lineup with 4 guards 2 years ago. we would have been better off playing Cayo at the 4 with Fore coming off the bench, even though Fore was the better player. most talented 5 does not mean best team.

The JG BF AG TB and NC lineup doesn't have 4 guards tho. It has two forwards. I don't think apples to apples to your 4 guard one which is why seems quick to say it wouldn't work as a change of pace. Grant is only playing 25 mins a game we could maybe find 4-5 mins. But if it would totally make our guys heads explode then I guess not. That seems far fetched to me. I don't think anyone is claiming it is our best 5 either, but it would be our best defensive and transition team while still having some O.

 

[97spiderfan]

I know playing our center position requires an advanced degree in sports science and at least 3 years of apprenticeship and is best left in the hands of guys averaging .7 and 1.6 points per game respectively. Because clearly, they have this whole center position figured it. Burton needs to learn how to get better get pushed around the basket and hand the ball off to one of our guards on offense off the high post before we even consider him getting minutes for Grant.

 

[spiderman]

Burton's 195. he's not a 5 defensively.

 

[nathanw19]

You’re right that Cayo isn’t a 5 and neither is Burton. But you can use a small lineup as a change of pace. The offense and defensive schemes are probably different than the regular sets, but that’s kind of the point in it being a change of pace.

As for the best 5 players not necessarily being the best 5 on the floor, sure that can be true. But what I think Mooney fails to do at times is change his scheme for his best 5 if necessary. If you look at teams like Duke and Kentucky, they certainly have general themes from year to year, but Cal and coach K recognize their teams strength and adjust accordingly. Mooney has certainly been better this year (see the defense), but it feels more forced because of the past 2 years rather than an assessment of this year’s team and its strengths.

 

[SpiderK]

?
no, he shouldn't back up the 5

Grace gave up 8-10 points on defense.

 

[spider23]

that 40 is aggressive.

Bro, you need to get OUT OF the MOONEY Mentality, and get in the MAMBA MENTALITY. Just ask Brian Dutcher and Matt Mitchell. I hope Burton does not let Mooney rub off on him, or transfers.

 

[spider23]

When we got our arse kicked by lil ol St Mary's in the NCAA, they surrounded Sam man with four 40percent shooters. Let's not settle. Burton has a nice looking stroke. Get in the gym like Atkinson and Newman, and he can be a generational type player and easily shoot 40. If you think it is "AGGRESSIVE" to be a freaking 40 percent shooter, you are toast.

 

[gcarter52]

Bro, you need to get OUT OF the MOONEY Mentality, and get in the MAMBA MENTALITY. Just ask Brian Dutcher and Matt Mitchell. I hope Burton does not let Mooney rub off on him, or transfers.

I hope you don't transfer or let Mooney rub off on you!!

 

[spider23]

I hope you don't transfer or let Mooney rub off on you!!

Haha, good laugh gcarter, I won't. I don't think Burton will either. Just hoping he is a gym rat, b/c I see a more skilled Matisse Thybulle as his potential. But maybe I should think like Mooney guys instead.

 

[gcarter52]

Haha, good laugh gcarter, I won't. I don't think Burton will either. Just hoping he is a gym rat, b/c I see a more skilled Matisse Thybulle as his potential. But maybe I should think like Mooney guys instead.

That's a good thing...I count on you to hold things down!! I am hoping too....He needs to develop the Mamba Mentality, as a matter of fact the entire team!!

 

[spiderman]

again, huge Burton fan. heck, I hope he becomes a 60% shooter from 3. just saying based on the inconsistency of where the ball goes on his 3 pointers so far, I don't see it. not everyone will be a pure shooter no matter how much work they put in. but he'll still be very effective.