Bench

[UR80sfan]

We all knew our starters were great, but some questioned the quality of the bench. Our bench is very strong and deep. Starting with the NIT through the first 3 game of this year Matt Grace has been playing very well. Crabtree is very solid, Wilson (assuming Sherod starts in future games) played his best game as a spider on both ends of the court, Dji has also played well going back to the NIT tournament and in a few weeks we will have Gustavson back. All of these guys are good enough to start for other teams in the A10. I am also hopeful that Sal at some point will be a major contributor. These guys are going to increase our intensity of play and help us will a lot of games. It is going to be fun to watch. BTW, I wonder when the last time our bench had 45 points in a game?

 

[SpiderK]

When was the last time we got 45 points off the bench? Like never!

 

[bullfrog91]

Love Nick coming off the bench!

 

[Eight Legger]

Grace may actually, legitimately, be our second or third-best three-point shorter.

 

[KE Spider]

Remember a poster saying couple of years ago, " I hide behind the couch when Grace subs in". Thought it funny at the time, but Grace has developed tremendously since then on both offense and defense. Great game for him tonight. We need him to come back next season.

 

[SpiderDogg]

Don’t think Sherod starts in future games unless it’s at the 3 (also unlikely). As everyone has mentioned he was awesome off the bench tonight and we have so much depth at the 2. Wilson definitely deserves to start for now and there are still plenty of minutes for Nick.

 

[SFspidur]

Mooney said that this game was circled early on as one where they’d have to do something different lineup-wise due to Georgia State’s prolific guards. That may be a cover-up to explain away the lineup change, but if it’s true, Sherod may be heading right back into a starter spot. I want to see more data on tonight’s strategy though.

 

[Marley13]

I think it’s more of a way to keep Sherod happy while not starting him.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I still don't believe Sherod will spend the season coming off the bench. I think this is best for him and the team, but I think there will be times when he plays well, and then they move him back to the starting lineup. Or he comes off the bench and plays starter minutes, so at that point - doesn't really matter.

 

[UR80sfan]

I still don't believe Sherod will spend the season coming off the bench. I think this is best for him and the team, but I think there will be times when he plays well, and then they move him back to the starting lineup. Or he comes off the bench and plays starter minutes, so at that point - doesn't really matter.

I hope last night is the Sherod we will see the rest of the reason. He was a completely different player than the 1st 2 games and played at a level close to his peak as a Spider. Very happy for him and the team.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Grace may actually, legitimately, be our second or third-best three-point shorter.

Eight look how far he has come from hesitant to take a shot to looking for his shot.

 

[spiderman]

I don't think Nick starting or coming off the bench mattered. it wasn't his defense that hurt us last game. it was his missing shots. when he shoots like he did tonight, he's a great player and a difference maker. that said ... Zay was terrific on both ends. if it ain't broke, I'm fine with not fixing it.

Grace deserves all the praise he's getting today, as does Dji. Crabtree too. all of them are showing more and more what they can be. but I won't take Tyler for granted either. he was absolutely the man. and Grant had another great game too.

who'd have thought we'd be this happy after a game where Cayo and Gilyard combined for 4 points? normally that's not a good recipe.

one thing that made our defense look better was how well we shot. teams can't get anything in transition when they're taking the ball out. 17-25 from 2 is a nice change from last game. and 16-29 from 3 is filthy.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Exactly Spiderman - when we shoot well, our defense can setup and we don't get stuck searching for our man and spots. Don't expect us to shoot like that going forward.

Drake will be a better test. Preseason favorite in MVC. And playing on their home court. Only advantage we have is that they have not really played anyone yet - and we have loss to Utah State. Will be interesting to see how we handle this first true road game of the season.

 

[spiderman]

as someone mentioned before, great defensive teams are always tough. defense plays every game.
great offensive teams will look awesome some games ... maybe even most games. but will sometimes struggle.
we're a great offensive team.
when we shoot like last night, we can beat anybody.

 

[VT4700]

Exactly Spiderman - when we shoot well, our defense can setup and we don't get stuck searching for our man and spots. Don't expect us to shoot like that going forward.

Drake will be a better test. Preseason favorite in MVC. And playing on their home court. Only advantage we have is that they have not really played anyone yet - and we have loss to Utah State. Will be interesting to see how we handle this first true road game of the season.

Drake, like us, averages 12 made 3s a game, tied for 16th in the country. In 2 games, they are 24-47, while we are 36-88 in 3 games. Should be a good one.

 

[VT4700]

I hope last night is the Sherod we will see the rest of the reason. He was a completely different player than the 1st 2 games and played at a level close to his peak as a Spider. Very happy for him and the team.

Nick was outstanding, and only needed 16 minutes to get his 16 points. Coming off the bench is perfect for him.
Wilson set the tone with his defense from the opening tip, and can score as well. He needs to stay right there in the starting lineup.
How about Grant and Grace? A combined 12-19 from 3 so far! We can't expect that high percentage to continue, but what a weapon to have them out there knocking those down. And, both are playing great all around.
Tyler continues to impress, and his 3 pointer being such a factor now will open up the rest of his game. I'm sure we will see a few drive the lane monster dunks from him this year.
We will need Jacob's scoring plenty this year, but good for him to realize early he didn't need to force anything last night. He has 18 assists and only 3 turnovers this year. With all his steals and everything else he does, we can't overlook how huge it is to have a PG who doesn't turn the ball over. Like someone else said, we scored a ton with very few points from Nate and Jacob. That is impressive, and Nate will come around. There will be games when we need him to dominate his guy down low, and he will do just that.
Crabtree looks great off the bench. He is versatile and can sub for anyone, guard anyone, handle the ball some, shoot the 3, and pretty much do whatever is needed out there.
Dji looked great while he was in there. We should feel real good about his future, and the future could be this year because there might be some games where we need him this year. if so, he looks more than capable.
Sal showed a few things also. The And 1 was impressive. This was one of those games where everyone played well, the team had fun, and it was fun as a fan to watch.

 

[MrTbone]

The team was great. Sman, I think you’re undersellijg the nick/Isaiah trade off. At one point, there were three, maybe four straight possessions where nicks man scored. He is consistently getting beat, I don’t know what you’re seeing to suggest otherwise.

I do think some of that is a scheme problem. Nick is often playing the lane in a quasi zone I think to hide his mobility problems outside. But then he’s being asked to close out on open shooters when no one else is available. It’s a conundrum, but one I suspect driven by an inability to guard the 2/3 faced up.

If he shoots like he did it won’t matter much. But I’ll still take Isaiah’s game right now because someone needs to set the tone on defense and he’s the guy.

Very pleased with all the contributions.

 

[KE Spider]

Crabtree looks great off the bench. He is versatile and can sub for anyone, guard anyone, handle the ball some, shoot the 3, and pretty much do whatever is needed out there.

Love Crabtree's game in his injury driven limited career appearances. He is a Swiss Army Knife. Can do a lot of things and contribute in multiple ways. Heads up player. Give the man minutes.

 

[SpiderRick]

Crabtree needs to be getting some of Cayo's minutes, maybe even start. This is make or break year for Mooney, he needs to be playing his best players regardless of loyalties.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

at one point we had Crabtree, Dji, Burton, Golden and Wilson in. Good ball handling
and good defenders. We attacked lane and rebounded well.

 

[spiderman]

Sman, I think you’re undersellijg the nick/Isaiah trade off. At one point, there were three, maybe four straight possessions where nicks man scored. He is consistently getting beat, I don’t know what you’re seeing to suggest otherwise.

I took notes on possessions in the Utah State game where I thought poor defense lead to buckets and who to pin it on. it wasn't Nick. I have no skin in this. just trying to be objective.

I didn't closely review the Ga State game since we played so well. obviously not every bucket is due to poor defense. and not every miss is due to good defense. but I didn't see Nick as a defensive problem in the Utah State game.

 

[Gallipoli]

I took notes on possessions in the Utah State game where I thought poor defense lead to buckets and who to pin it on. it wasn't Nick. I have no skin in this. just trying to be objective.

There were several instances. There was one in particular, when the USU player had the ball in the corner and Nick was covering. The USU guy maneuvered (pushed) Nick aside and Nick could not regain his position. The replay showed it and the game announcers pointed it out. Also, I listened to Greg and Bob on the radio in the USU game. Nick wasn't getting his feet under him, when he was shooting 3's. Greg noted that his shot was on target, but he wasn't getting into position and pushing through with his legs. It looked like Nick corrected both of these in the GA State game. Several times Nick ran down guards running for open shots. He was also set-up for open shots, when he had his feet in position. He was not as tired in the GA State game and he provided a spark off the bench.

 

[spiderman]

There were several instances. There was one in particular, when the USU player had the ball in the corner and Nick was covering. The USU guy maneuvered (pushed) Nick aside and Nick could not regain his position. The replay showed it and the game announcers pointed it out.

yes, there was a screen set to the top of him that Nick was worried about and he got beat. wasn't dramatically bad defense, but yes he got beat baseline. there was also a time where he over helped when it wasn't needed. that led to someone rotating to help and someone else being open. both not great, but not the "Nick is killing us" narrative that I've been reading here. there were more instances of others getting beat than Nick.

 

[97spiderfan]

yes, there was a screen set to the top of him that Nick was worried about and he got beat. wasn't dramatically bad defense, but yes he got beat baseline. there was also a time where he over helped when it wasn't needed. that led to someone rotating to help and someone else being open. both not great, but not the "Nick is killing us" narrative that I've been reading here. there were more instances of others getting beat than Nick.

You have to look at it holistically on defense, not just is Nick getting beat himself on defense. I think we all saw the difference that putting a tenacious defender like Wilson into the starting line-up, corresponded to a quick start for us against Georgia State. Our back line defenders (Grant, Cayo, and Burton) are all individually not great defenders, but if our guards can put more intensive pressures on their guards, that gives them a little cushion. The players that Grant, Cayo, and Burton are guarding might not be getting the ball to them in the best position to take advantage as often because of the pressure our guards are putting on their guards.

That pressure just can not happen with Sherod. He was never that type of defender and certainly is not now coming off of 2 ACL injuries. Sherod is perfectly suited to come off the bench for an immediate shooting presence. He is the perfect 6th man on this team. We saw the results on Tuesday both for Sherod and for our team defensively. This should be a permanent change in our line-up-player personnel.

 

[MrTbone]

I took notes on possessions in the Utah State game where I thought poor defense lead to buckets and who to pin it on. it wasn't Nick. I have no skin in this. just trying to be objective.

I didn't closely review the Ga State game since we played so well. obviously not every bucket is due to poor defense. and not every miss is due to good defense. but I didn't see Nick as a defensive problem in the Utah State game.

My goal is not to bash Nick, just noting that I think he’s a substantial defensive liability, particularly when he’s being asked to defend the perimeter.

Someone else suggested this but he may be a better substitution for Nate than Isaiah or Dji. He stands a greater chance to be defending in the paint where strength may matter more than quickness.

 

[SpiderDad75]

My goal is not to bash Nick, just noting that I think he’s a substantial defensive liability, particularly when he’s being asked to defend the perimeter.

Someone else suggested this but he may be a better substitution for Nate than Isaiah or Dji. He stands a greater chance to be defending in the paint where strength may matter more than quickness.

I think this too. Because of the lack of quickness I think he's better suited defending inside. Or at the very least if Nick is guarding the perimeter, he shouldn't be caught so deep as its a struggle for him to get back to close out. If I remember correctly there were a couple of times this happened. Its not that he was necessarily deeper than most but bc he has some limits now maybe play a little closer to his man and to me its certainly not from a lack of his hustle bc he is def busting his tail.

 

[97spiderfan]

My goal is not to bash Nick, just noting that I think he’s a substantial defensive liability, particularly when he’s being asked to defend the perimeter.

Someone else suggested this but he may be a better substitution for Nate than Isaiah or Dji. He stands a greater chance to be defending in the paint where strength may matter more than quickness.

Yep, Nick is not a 2 guard. He can't guard the 2 guard. He is better suited to defend a 3. Problem is we made him out starting 2 guard, so that is where is he gonna start the game. Rolling out a starting line up with 4 of our 5 players being below average defenders is not a great way to start the game in my opinion. Mooney's personnel management needs to adjust and he made that adjustment in the Georgia State game and we saw the impact.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Yep, Nick is not a 2 guard. He can't guard the 2 guard. He is better suited to defend a 3. Problem is we made him out starting 2 guard, so that is where is he gonna start the game. Rolling out a starting line up with 4 of our 5 players being below average defenders is not a great way to start the game in my opinion. Mooney's personnel management needs to adjust and he made that adjustment in the Georgia State game and we saw the impact.

From all indications Zay may be starter from here on out. Which set the tone Tues night and allowed Nick to do Nick things. I think several of us have talked and agreed about this since the summer. I don't think its bashing and we were always taught you are what you can guard, period. I like Nick coming off the bench as I think we are a better team. I loved Zay's energy and eagerness to be in the opposing guards face. I thought bringing Gilly out for a few minutes opens up some mins for Crab and Dji. Even if Gilly comes out 2 min before a tv timeout he getting some much needed rest. That to me was also a solid adjustment. I think we have to slowly build trust in the young guys esp if they are producing. Now, if they are messing up then they come out. Will that continue, I think the jury is still out but I hope so. Not only bc hey I want to see more Dji 😄but for the health of Gilly. We will need him full strength if we are to make that run to the tourney. Gilly is needed on floor as much as possible.

 

[wr70beh]

Just remember, Mooney never uses his bench the same way each game. Sometimes that's due to matchups, but other times that's due to his nature to play old guys more. Next game we'll probably be complaining how he never subs in players at the right times.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Any that have watched Mooney for any period of time know that he tightens up (becomes ultra conservative) when he is behind, or when the score is close down the stretch. He is typically not as effective under pressure.

When Mooney has everything rolling with a big lead like he did against Georgia State, it seems easier for the relaxed Mooney to make better decisions. This has been a common thread throughout his years at UR.

 

[SFspidur]

Just remember, Mooney never uses his bench the same way each game. Sometimes that's due to matchups, but other times that's due to his nature to play old guys more. Next game we'll probably be complaining how he never subs in players at the right times.

And sometimes he just forgets about guys...

 

[spiderman]

You have to look at it holistically on defense, not just is Nick getting beat himself on defense.

I understand that line of thought. there's no question Zay is a superior defender and I agree that helps the entire defense. Zay played a nice offensive game Tuesday too. same with Dji.

and I said somewhere up above that while I don't think it matters who starts, starting Zay worked and if it ain't broke ...

I'm fine either way. if we're going to play Nick on average 20 mpg which I think is reasonable, I don't think it matters if he starts or not. you want to set the tone on defense and that's fine. Zay's the guy for that.

 

[VT4700]

It is all about setting the tone defensively, so it does matter who starts. Wilson is an outstanding on the ball defender. By starting, he sets the tone defensively from the opening tip. This prevents the opponent's PG from getting too comfortable, which prevents their whole team from getting comfortable. Also, defensive intensity is contagious. It has to be very motivating for our guys to see Wilson's on the ball defense.

 

[97spiderfan]

I think several of us have talked and agreed about this since the summer.

So, true. And the Mooney supporters constantly said how we shouldn't worry because Nick was gonna deliver so much offense it would offset. I don't think anyone ever questioned Nick's offense, I know what he brings on that end. I also know what he means to this team with his leadership. But there are two sides to the ball and it was pretty clear to some this summer that our defense would struggle with a line up of Nick, Burton, Cayo, and Grant. That beared out in the first two games.

No, Nick wasn't getting possibly exposed in those games, but the defense as a whole was substandard and that cost us the Utah St. game. Now, more people see that light and how we can just can't throw our 5 best offensive players out on the court at once and win games. We need to have balance.

Zay and Dji have much larger roles in this year's team than many thought they would. They are in my opinion our two most important reserves (well Zay hopefully is a starter now) because of what they bring to this team on defense.

Go back to our 2011 teams. Who was our 2 guard. Kevin Smith. No one is gonna mistake Kevin Smith as offensive juggernaught, but man he played some defense, brought energy, and at 6'5 made for a really gave us a different look defensively. He was the critical to our success with a team that included one of our all time greats, in Kevin Anderson, an NBA draft pick in Justin Harper, and a slow but offensively gifted center Dan Geriot.

Dad, if you don't know about Kevin Smith, look-up some of his highlights. One of my all time favorite Spiders.

 

[97spiderfan]

It is all about setting the tone defensively, so it does matter who starts. Wilson is an outstanding on the ball defender. By starting, he sets the tone defensively from the opening tip. This prevents the opponent's PG from getting too comfortable, which prevents their whole team from getting comfortable. Also, defensive intensity is contagious. It has to be very motivating for our guys to see Wilson's on the ball defense.

Rarely agree with 4700 but this is spot on. We have way too much talent to play like we did in the first two games, but we allowed the other team to get comfortable offensively and then it didn't matter how great we were on offense, the other team (and probably us as well) knew they could keep pace with us.

If we frustrate them on defense, our offense is still going to hum quite well on most nights anyway, so if this team can find a defensive presence like they had on Tuesday, they will be scary good. If we don't, we have a repeat of last year. Losing to some teams we have no business losing to because our defense is easy to score on.

I also go back to the NIT and how different that team looked than the won that lost to St. Joes and Duqesne in the A-10 tourney. They looked different because guys like Zay and Dji brought us a defense presence. Gilly also looked like a different players, probably because he didn't have the weight of the world on his shoulders on defense.

 

[urmite]

So, true. And the Mooney supporters constantly said how we shouldn't worry because Nick was gonna deliver so much offense it would offset. I don't think anyone ever questioned Nick's offense, I know what he brings on that end. I also know what he means to this team with his leadership. But there are two sides to the ball and it was pretty clear to some this summer that our defense would struggle with a line up of Nick, Burton, Cayo, and Grant. That beared out in the first two games.

No, Nick wasn't getting possibly exposed in those games, but the defense as a whole was substandard and that cost us the Utah St. game. Now, more people see that light and how we can just can't throw our 5 best offensive players out on the court at once and win games. We need to have balance.

Zay and Dji have much larger roles in this year's team than many thought they would. They are in my opinion our two most important reserves (well Zay hopefully is a starter now) because of what they bring to this team on defense.

Go back to our 2011 teams. Who was our 2 guard. Kevin Smith. No one is gonna mistake Kevin Smith as offensive juggernaught, but man he played some defense, brought energy, and at 6'5 made for a really gave us a different look defensively. He was the critical to our success with a team that included one of our all time greats, in Kevin Anderson, an NBA draft pick in Justin Harper, and a slow but offensively gifted center Dan Geriot.

Dad, if you don't know about Kevin Smith, look-up some of his highlights. One of my all time favorite Spiders.

So you like cookies?...

 

[spider23]

Any that have watched Mooney for any period of time know that he tightens up (becomes ultra conservative) when he is behind, or when the score is close down the stretch. He is typically not as effective under pressure.

When Mooney has everything rolling with a big lead like he did against Georgia State, it seems easier for the relaxed Mooney to make better decisions. This has been a common thread throughout his years at UR.

Great observations NAH. This is where the Dick Tarrant, John Beilein types separate themselves. OK, I thinking I am firing Kneepad and hiring you as my counselor. Nice job, congrats!!

 

[spiderman]

Zay played great in his start. I'm fine starting him. but I think a big part of our defense looking better in game 3 was due to our much improved offense. fewer defensive rebounds for the other team leads to fewer transition baskets. and fewer live ball turnovers has the same effect.

 

[RichmondNative]

I really hope Zay starts because I do think he sets a needed tone. However, based on CM’s answers to questions during the postgame makes me think he is looking at who to start at the 2 a game by game decision.

I think it was really easy for the defense to look better after the Utah St game because the defense in the USU game was horrendous, so add that to the list.

 

[MrTbone]

Zay played great in his start. I'm fine starting him. but I think a big part of our defense looking better in game 3 was due to our much improved offense. fewer defensive rebounds for the other team leads to fewer transition baskets. and fewer live ball turnovers has the same effect.

Lotta truth to this. Good defense often turns to good offense, and certainly good offense enables better defense.

We are in a rare position where we actually have some notable depth to try to find someone who can bring both on any given night.