Much has been said on the forums about our not using the bench, but not sure we can say enough. We are currently DEAD LAST in the country in bench minutes played. I hear you on injuries, but you have to develop some people. We will wear out the starters, not be able to handle foul trouble or minor injuries. In addition, we will have very experience moving forward and will see a repeat of the post- sweet 16 years. Mooney is still coaching not to lose all the time. The subs need to be coached up to,play and then trusted to do so. Grant was much better last year than prior because we managed his minutes. The same is true to some extent for the rest.
Bench
- Thread starter PhillySpider
- Start date
Goos(assumed back), Wilson, Grace and Sal give us rotation of 9. That is not bad and who is at practice to see Diji and others to make judgments on when to play certain subs and what situation. I have been on Mooneys case for not playing bench but also consider Sal this year with minutes compared to last year. What’s difference.... no foul trouble, not scared to shoot, good defender, low TOS.... i think word is strength and confidence. He may be gradually building Wilsons minutes as he gets more confident.
I am glad to see sal getting some time. He does look a ton more confident.
Would like to add one more thing on subs and minutes at Mason. They had 3 guys on court: Hartwell, Green and Korvak
who are good three point shooters. With 4 minutes left a 12-14 point lead can change in heart beat with us having 3 misses and they hit three 3s. Three point shooting change momentum in a heart beat.
who are good three point shooters. With 4 minutes left a 12-14 point lead can change in heart beat with us having 3 misses and they hit three 3s. Three point shooting change momentum in a heart beat.
With a full week until our next game, I'm really looking forward to hearing all week what a $h!t job Mooney is doing with this 9-3 team and everything all of our players do wrong! I think I might need to resurrect the Kevin Bacon game.
We're last in bench minutes because we're one of the oldest and most experienced teams in the country. The two are not unrelated.
If you need to go searching to find stats to jump the coach about you just have too much time on your hands. When Goose comes back he will give some valuable time. Managing a team through the Nick, Crabtree, and Goose injuries must just be plain dumb luck.
I don’t understand how there is a crowd here that thinks we cannot have any criticism after a win. Sitting back and not trying to get better is called complacency. If we aren’t looking to get better then what’s the point of even playing?
What management are you talking about? I think the complaint is that is there no management. Strategy: Play the starters the whole game.
Obviously, the team will get more minutes from the bench when Goose is back, which is definitely needed. That isn’t a reason that scholarship players couldn’t get in a game where the opponent was overmatched. Just like Philly said, Mooney coaching not to lose even against inferior teams.
I suspect when Goos comes back bench minutes won't go up, they will just be redistributed. Mooney is playing to get in the tournament. I just hope we don't run out of gas and next years team is of no concern at this point.
I thought you were wrong. We are 345th of 357...
Then I saw the 12 teams below us haven’t played yet...
I think the point is that there is ONLY criticism, at all times, pretty much in every thread. It was tiresome when we were a bad team, but at least then there was a lot to complain about. Now it is just kind of bizarro world.
There's a lot of positivity in the George Mason thread, among others. Some people just look for reasons to be offended.
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Whew, no one would paint as a Mooney defender. But seriously what is he supposed to do. We have three of our Top 8 hurt right now, so he is giving minutes to 9-11 (Sal, Grace, Wilson) players on the roster. Could the 11th guy Wilson get a few more minutes, sure, I think he has been gradually seeing more meaningful time. So, that leaves our 12th man, Dji, as maybe getting 3 minutes instead of 1 in a blowout win.
Is that what we are complaining about here? Come on, now.
But as for Goo Moos, we waxed them. I have zero complaints with ANYTHING Mooney did in that game. We completely dominated that game, our defense was locked in, it was the first 40 minute complete game we played all year. If being on the court most of the game helps our key guys learn how to play and finish a full game, sign me up, because this team should be sh*tcanning teams like Mason.
Now, y'all made me come on here and defend Mooney, I'll need to go bathe myself in bleach after this, so thanks.
Is that what we are complaining about here? Come on, now.
But as for Goo Moos, we waxed them. I have zero complaints with ANYTHING Mooney did in that game. We completely dominated that game, our defense was locked in, it was the first 40 minute complete game we played all year. If being on the court most of the game helps our key guys learn how to play and finish a full game, sign me up, because this team should be sh*tcanning teams like Mason.
Now, y'all made me come on here and defend Mooney, I'll need to go bathe myself in bleach after this, so thanks.
Amen brother, the last 10 minutes of second half was best defensive effort I have seen this year from everyone who played.
Exactly, some people just ignore the positive. In general, if you look at my history of Mooney posting, I probably have 17 billion more positive posts about Mooney than the now positive posters. But I am not counting
Tend to agree with this, bench has gotten wiped out by attrition due to mostly injuries and transfer.
Couple of things possibly????
1. Groin injury defense - two different players lost time due to groin
2. Better buddy system and open door communication with Weir.
But yes, it stinks we don't have Nick and Crabtree available. If Nick never went down, I think Crabtree likely never saw the light of day this year - but who knows.
Basketball board used to be so negative, I viewed it sparingly. Don't see that today. Winning doesn't absolve any player and/or coach from what some perceive as negative comments.
Mooney has his detractors here, but doesn't virtually every college coach? This is a pretty tame board compared to many I visit, mostly comprised of gentlemen and scholars (uh hem, perhaps a little of a stretch)
All I know is our Spiders are 9-3 and relevant to A10 championship and Dance discussions. Much for all to be thankful about. Hoping the team...and the board keep doing what they are doing.
Mooney has his detractors here, but doesn't virtually every college coach? This is a pretty tame board compared to many I visit, mostly comprised of gentlemen and scholars (uh hem, perhaps a little of a stretch
)All I know is our Spiders are 9-3 and relevant to A10 championship and Dance discussions. Much for all to be thankful about. Hoping the team...and the board keep doing what they are doing.
You may or may not be off by 17 billion or so. But know you give Mooney credit where credit is due.Exactly, some people just ignore the positive. In general, if you look at my history of Mooney posting, I probably have 17 billion more positive posts about Mooney than the now positive posters. But I am not counting
I re-read my posts and did not intend for them to come off as criticism in the way that they did. I never gave him credit for the win, but that’s kind of because I expect to wipe the floor with Mason so we did the expected. He coached well and had the team ready and for that I give him credit.
I’m just always thinking about the next game and what we can do now to improve for that. I was never the most technical player in any sport I played, but I was always the most prepared and the most “studied up” guy on whatever field we were on. So as soon as the final buzzer sounds I’m already looking forward to the next game and reflecting back what could have been improved. Maybe sometimes need to stop and smell the roses a bit more often like I did after Kentucky
I’m just always thinking about the next game and what we can do now to improve for that. I was never the most technical player in any sport I played, but I was always the most prepared and the most “studied up” guy on whatever field we were on. So as soon as the final buzzer sounds I’m already looking forward to the next game and reflecting back what could have been improved. Maybe sometimes need to stop and smell the roses a bit more often like I did after Kentucky
No worries, my friend. I think my whole "crusade" lately is to remind folks that this is definitely a "smelling roses" phase. I don't disagree with the sentiment that we'd all love to have this phase last indefinitely.
They are really good this year, Giannis is a beast. They do still have to prove it in the post season, and Giannis does need to develop an outside shot and hit FT's or they may fall short again.
My smelling the roses phase was last season. Unfortunately, the season ended prematurely and so the ultimate goals of an A10 championship and a NCAA birth could not be reached. Some give the program credit for making the tournament anyway, but as I remember it, the team was solidly on the bubble. Anything could have happened.
So my expectation was similar to the preseason expectations from nearly everyone, the preseason favorite to win the A10. Many on the Forum were saying that the team had a good shot at an at-large bid. Based on the Spider performance to date, as well as the conference‘s, the at-large ship is close to leaving the dock. In my opinion, the A10 is looking like a 2 bid league. So the margin for error is rather small. The next 2 games are close to critical. The Bonnies already won once and the Broad St boys are ahead in the Net regardless of the opinion here. Am I going to get amped up about a 20 point win versus an inferior opponent, no. Will I be amped if the Spiders win the next 2 games, yes. Looking forward to the battles. Go Spiders!
After winning the last game we played last season, I expect to do the same thing this season and next season. Is that so much to ask?
I think lack of depth will hurt our chances of winning the A10 tournament, but fortunately that will be the only time we’d have to play 3 games in 3 days. Makes winning the A10 regular season all the more important. Also shouldn’t affect our run to the final 4.
I agree with your post, but can we please stop referring to Wilson as "#11" and Nick as one of our starting 5?
I love Nick, he's incredibly important to the team and we obviously miss him. Our team looks very different than it would have with him active.
But his season/career-ending injury happened 43 days before our first game.
Any coach worth his salt would have adjusted their season plans for minutes accordingly. I mean, it's not like he's a late scratch. He's irrelevant to the discussion of the rotation and bench usage as it pertains to games this season.
As I see it, everyone except the top 4 immediately moved up a rung back in October.
It's bad enough the paid apologists feel the need to throw a "without Nick" into every other thread, as a qualifier for wins and an excuse for losses.
No, you didn't understand my point.
People are referring to Wilson as our "11th man" in their debate about the bench and minutes, and that's just not right. Nick is not part of the "rotation" for this season. He's not even in the team photo. It would have been the same had he transferred, opted out, or declared for the draft. We've only gone 11 deep and Wilson is ahead of Dji.
While I'm not a huge fan of the numbering of the bench players - different subs by position and need - I do understand its utility. By any metric, Wilson is 10th. But the fact is right now our #6 and #7 are both injured and both guards. We currently have 4 healthy guards, and Wilson is the #1 guard off the bench until Andre is healthy.
I'm not sure if your last sentence was directed at me, but I'm ok with the minutes, personally. We have to win this year. Best guys play. When Goose comes back, Blake and Jacob can catch a few more breathers. But I can also understand the argument that if you can't even play your (current) #3 guard in a rout, it's a missed opportunity.
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The lack of bench minutes has nothing to do with this year. We can survive this year assuming everyone stays healthy and be very good. But it does little to develop players for next year when likely everyone leaves. Unfortunately for us and Mooney - there really is no time to think about next year because of the lack of NCAA appearances the last several years. The pressure is on. But in Mooney's tenure, no one has really developed into a leading player on the team unless they got to learn on the job and got good minutes early in their career. Harper might have been the only one and even he got 8 minutes a night his frosh year.
But, what about the numerous freshman who played a lot of minutes right away, played well right away, and had great careers? They did not need a warm up freshman season. But, because they played too much their freshman season, I guess they don't count? It seems like you are looking for someone who didn't play much at all his freshman year, and then became a leading player to counter your argument? Am I missing something? Is that really popular at other programs? What does that really prove and why is that any better than someone playing a lot right away and becoming a leading player?
But, that being said, we still had some freshman play less minutes than Harper did his freshman season, and still go on to good careers.
Robbins played 6 minutes a game, Brothers 4, and Williams 4, but I still don't know what this really proves. They were good players, but had players in front of them, just like Wilson and Bailey this year. There is nothing unique about Mooney and our program when it comes to freshman. Like all programs, some freshman don't play much, some play a little, and some play a lot. Playing time depends on not only how good you are, but who is in front of you. Our freshman who played a lot of minutes their freshman year were good, and didn't have as many people in front of them.
There seem to be 2 complaints about minutes, player fatigue by A10 tournament time, and player development for next year. Both are valid concerns, but the fatigue factor worries me the most. We've seen this year after year with Mooney teams, the guys are worn out when the tournament rolls around and they are required to win 4 games in 4 days. And let's be honest, we have had almost no opportunity for at-large bids during the Mooney years; it almost always comes down to having to win the tournament.
The whole "let's move to the A10 because we have opportunities for at-large bids" has up to this point in time been nothing but a pipe dream. We had just as many at-large bids in the CAA. And you can't win the tournament on tired legs.
We had a lot of bench minutes last year. Jacob, Blake, Nick, Nate, and Grant averaged about 150 minutes combined, leaving 50 for everyone else.
we only have two players that anyone should be concerned about with mpg in Gilyard and Francis. Burton, Cayo and Golden play very reasonable minutes.
I personally don't worry at all about Gilyard's or Francis' conditioning. if you want to get them a little extra rest when Goose is back, I won't complain. though I can't understand the argument that a couple minutes per game less makes a difference. after every game you're tired. then you recover.
the A10 tournament is a different animal. that's a grind. I'd love to win comfortably in the early rounds and get everyone more rest. but you've got to win to move on so it's tough.
I personally don't worry at all about Gilyard's or Francis' conditioning. if you want to get them a little extra rest when Goose is back, I won't complain. though I can't understand the argument that a couple minutes per game less makes a difference. after every game you're tired. then you recover.
the A10 tournament is a different animal. that's a grind. I'd love to win comfortably in the early rounds and get everyone more rest. but you've got to win to move on so it's tough.
For Seasons ending in/Non-Starter Spider minutes per game (per Kenpom)
2010/48.6
2011/54.4
2012/60.2
2013/74.2
2014/66.6
2015/52.4
2016/52.4
2017/45.8
2018/44.4
2019/50.2
2020/58.8
2021/30.6
I believe 60 minutes is about average.
+1 to this, really like what Sal is showing on defense and isn't as timid on O. I think if he can refine some of his inside the paint moves, he can be a decent contributor next year and arguably a year thereafter if he so chooses.
Agree on Sal, he has made steady improvement and confidence level with him has grown. I do think this is a guy that will continue to play better and could be much better in one or two years than he is now.
