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Why coaches leave

UR Fan 2

UR Fan 2

Team Manager
May 5, 2005
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Lets face it, we as fans can be pretty bi-polar. We love winning, but more importantly we crave progress and advancement.

6 weeks ago, Shaka Smart was taking a beating on VCU message boards about
coaching decisions he was making that theoretically cost his team
games. Never mind that he had taken VCU to 5 straight NCAA tournaments,
had taken them to a Final 4, and would soon be taking them to another
NCAA tournament. You heard about decisions that resembled the same bad
decisions he had made during the SFA tourney game the prior year. For
goodness sake they were paying him so much money they should be at least
Elite 8 every year. Never mind, Shaka had taken a mid-tier bball
program and firmly established it on the National BBall map. Finally
Shaka took more money at a bigger program. VCU fans are bordering
between angry and despondent.

I can not predict whether or not he will win in TX. One thing I will predict is Fans there will also be
unhappy the first year he does not advance as far as the prior year.

It is not just a VCU issue. We are no different. Mooney takes us to 2
tournaments and our First Sweet 16 since the late 1980s. We pay more to
keep him and he rewards us with loyalty. 4 years have gone by. Each
year he has run a clean program, been in the mix for post season play
and had me sitting on the edge of my seat come Feb and March as every
game mattered. This year in particular he has taken a beating on the
message board for not doing enough to earn the money one alumnus seems
to be paying him(interesting that we are all experts in other people's
money) Next year, our "fans" have put him on notice that it is "dance"
or else. I have no doubt that we will be a talented team next year. I
hope we will be dancing come March. Maybe we will get back to the Sweet
16. Come April I wonder if these same fans will be angry if/when
Mooney decides to leave for a bigger job? Quite frankly I would not
blame him. Our loyalty comes at a cost. Keep winning and progressing
or else...

This post was edited on 4/10 10:54 AM by UR Fan 2
 
I am a senior executive and not a day goes by when one of my people does not make a mistake. I do not insist on firing them for making minor mistakes. The standard should be the same of Coach Mooney.
 
He is a basketball coach making millions of dollars. Criticism from fans is part of the job. If he didn't want public criticism, I would suggest going into accounting or many other lines of work where fans don't criticize your job.

If he leaves because he does not feel appreciated here or felt unfairly stung by some message board criticism, well then I would say he is not cut out to be a high level D-1 coach. The criticism on here is mild compared to most high level D-1 jobs.

And for the record, I believe CM to be a big boy, who can deal with and probably just ignores the armchair criticism that he gets from our fan base quite well. He is probably more upset than any of us at the fact that we haven't been to the NCAA the past 4 years. His level of self-critique is probably much higher than any external heat he feels from fans.
 
How many coaches leave, that's how many reasons there are for leaving.
 
some see the big picture and know CM is a very good and highly respected coach. some armchair coaches want to nitpick every decision as if they could push all the right buttons. they'll do that no matter who is here. to each his own.

the "win next year or else" mantra is such BS though. he's put together a team that can win. his strategy puts them in position to win. he can't make the shots for them and injuries are out of his hands.

if Coach does things someday that show he should be removed, I'll get behind that. but I don't see that happening. he'll leave us before we have cause to leave him. he's our guy, to me. I'm very happy to have him here.
 
seriously doubt that CM reads posts here, know i would not if in his position or any of our other team coaches, for that matter. it does bother me though, just think the nitpicking, micro-managing by people who actually know very little is hilarious, obnoxious and way off base, although i certainly feel any of you have the right to do it. mostly just don't like airing dirty family laundry in public, bottom line. don't think many coaches leave one program for another because of message board posts, that would be silly. what they do leave for is to further their career, compete at a higher level and to help their financial well being long term. most coaches i have met and spent any time with are extremely competitive, they want to challenge themselves to see if they are good enough at the highest level.

listened to greg marshall after he decided to sign a new deal at wichita state and he indicated that the big reason he remained was that his wife and his daughter dug their heels in and said they loved where they were and did not want to move. one's family is a big part of this. recall i went out to visit a firm that had offered me a spectacular financial package and spent three or four days with them, both of us doing our due diligence. in the end did not take the offer but my daughter, who was 14 then, told me that she already had a place to live in richmond and was not going with us if we moved. HA, she most certainly have gone if we had gone but that struck home with me, there are other considerations when a potential career move comes up.

also, if you don't grasp that it kills these coaches when they leave their teams, their players, their family, you just don't get it. thought it is a great career move and promotion for them, it has to hurt big time to tell you team you are leaving.
 
Comparing the criticisms leveled at Smart and Mooney this year is an apples/oranges comparison. Shaka had disappointed the fans for a few weeks. Mooney had disappointed fans for a few years. Mooney is getting his criticism more fairly. Smart was unfairly criticized IMHO. That situation spoke more to an irrational and panicking fan base.

I would not think that Mooney checks this board out, but undoubtedly word of some of the things said here gets to him. Also the disgruntlement towards him is not contained in a bubble here. It exists out in the real world too, thus we saw Mooney being a little less comfortable publicly this season.
 
Shaka talked to his team 15 minutes, took their Havoc identity, the last can of Who Hash and left. Didn't look to hard for him.

This post was edited on 4/10 1:14 PM by SpiderK
 
mcspider - I disagree. I think criticism of Mooney absolutely only exists in this bubble. I don't think people outside of this board discuss it much and I don't think he was publicly different at all this year. In fact, I feel like he has gotten more comfortable publicly every year. I think he is very comfortable with himself, the program, and where he stands with his bosses. I'm sure he is frustrated that we haven't won more games but the idea that he can't figure it out or doesn't know why is silly. He just has to take the steps to do something about it.
 
Eh, the old Catholic Guilt routine never worked for me. Not my generation.

It's natural for fans (short for "fanatics") to get upset and critical when things aren't going well. I'm sure Mooney's a big boy and doesn't let it bother him. He gets paid the big bucks to take the heat when things aren't going well.

In addition, you can still be critical at times and supportive of CM and the program. This isn't a black and white thing, IMO, but for some reason folks want to make it that way. Perhaps NEVER being critical makes them feel superior in their fandom?

Trying to alter human nature will leave you frustrated and bitter, especially on a sports message board.
 
Originally posted by URPike:
I think criticism of Mooney absolutely only exists in this bubble.


I think this is way off base. I don't want this to devolve into the CM is right, CM is wrong argument that we have beaten like a dead horse a thousand times on here. But to think the only criticism that CM receives is from a few isolated posters on here is pretty myopic.

Fans generally talk one of two ways when things are not going well. They either complain or they simply reduce or stop active support of the program. When we were a .500 team mid year and playing like a listless ship, where was the average UR fan. They basically went away. And then second half of the year hits, we beat VCU a couple times, make a run at the end of the year and then a run in the NIT and boom those average fans are back.

The Robins Center is alive, message board is more active, interest in the program goes way up. If CM leads us to the NCAA next year and we have a really good year, interest in the program will skyrocket, that is fans talking as well.
Click to expand...
 
Coaches leave for MONEY. It is the main reason all the time. If money was not the issue, why wouldn't the bigger schools just pay the same as the smaller schools and tell the coaches "Come coach here - we have the best facilities, best players, best fans, etc. etc. etc. - you don't need the extra money - we got the best of everything else".

I am not a huge Colin Cowherd fan but he made a statment about Shaka leaving and I tend to believe its true. He said at the final four he spoke to one of his friends who is an agent for many of the big name college coaches. He said that of the big time college coaches - they are all represented by about 3-4 main sports agents. And one of these agents - Cowherd's friend said - these guys are all about the money behind the scenes. Most have a list of schools and a number in mind and tell the agent - if these schools call, here is my number for salary - I am interested if they can do it. And said some of the names would outright shock people.

And I don't doubt it. Look - this is a business at the end of the day and these guys are not only taking care of their family, but their kids families and possibly even great grandkids. They have the ability - to provide for multiple generations. So yeah - Shaka goes to Texas - makes 18 million in 6 years, on top of all the money he has already made in his career. You think 50 years from now - when he is retired in Florida and all of his kids and grandkids get to go to the best schools, and have everything they need for life - he is really going to care that he maybe he couldn't win at Texas? I don't think so.
 
Generally agree. There are a small contingent who are not interested in leaving due to pressure/comfort/loyalty. Those who do leave are leaving first and foremost for money, secondarily because it might be a stepping stone (big school to NBA or small school to bigger school, etc.) but even that is mostly financially motivated.

Some portion of it is related to the collateral elements that go with it, but most of those are fiscally related as well.

The one thing that isn't is the opportunity to win a championship, which is certainly higher at a place where high end recruits want to play. Legacy is about the only non-monetary reason guys move.
 
"But you don't understand, Shaka is different"; "he and Maya love it here"; "he is committed to vcu"; "he is not motivated by money"; "he will only leave for THE right situation"; "he's getting a great practice facility"; how'm I doin? Did I list them all?
 
All previous VCU coaches left for the money, no different than all previous UR coaches as well.

Belein took the money from WVU - they doubled his salary from UR.
Same with JW - Depaul almost doubled his salary and I believe he was from Chicago.
And some day, assuming we have continued success - Mooney will leave for the money as well.
 
No doubt money is a huge factor. But to me the reason Shaka left is less about money and more about the chance to win big and coach the best players. Shaka realized that he had maximized, perhaps overmaximized, what he could do at VCU and if he wanted to truly play for National Championships, that was not going to happen at VCU.
 
Originally posted by 72Spider:
"But you don't understand, Shaka is different"; "he and Maya love it here"; "he is committed to vcu"; "he is not motivated by money"; "he will only leave for THE right situation"; "he's getting a great practice facility"; how'm I doin? Did I list them all?
Click to expand...
The hilarious thing is that he left for TEXAS and most of the VDU bumbletons didn't think that could possibly be the "right" situation. Clueless. IT'S TEXAS. I mean get over yourselves, Lambs. Unreal.

I remember wondering why Beilein would leave us for WVU when we had just destroyed them the year before, but beyond the money he got, that was just a bigger school with more resources playing in a better league where it would be easier to build a sustainable high-level winner. That's exactly what he did, and that's the same reason Shaka went to Texas.
 
they leave for the money, but not necessarily just any job that will give them the money. can the new situation which pays more, help me to another situation which will pay me even more.

I'd leave my company for the same reason.
 
they leave for the challenge, they leave to go to a school with enormous resources, they leave to go to a school in a power 5 conf which gives them the opportunity to play for a title, they leave for the money that all that brings with it. spiderman nailed it, we all would leave our current job for one which gives us all of that, if they cannot, we stay put.
 
Billy Donavon assistant McCall goes to UT Chattanooga as its Head Coach.

In turn,Billy D hires back Anthony Grant as an assistant at UF.Under terms of Grant's buyout from Alabama, he will make $1 million per year through 2019. But Alabama will get some relief from the buyout as it will be on the hook for only the difference from the million from Grant's assistant coaching salary at UF. Terms of Grant's salary at UF were not immediately announced, though Florida typically pays its assistants in the range of $100,000-300,000. McCall made $190,000 last season.













This post was edited on 4/14 12:07 AM by 32counter

McCall goes to UTC
 
Webspinner - your exactly right - they do leave for all of that, but money comes first in my opinion. If Texas were to offer Shaka the same salary he was getting at VCU, but give everything you mentioned - do you think he would have still left? No way. And if you offer enough money to someone - it can make up for the lack of other things.

A bad school with a lot of money can get a good coach, even if the coach knows its not the greatest situation because the money makes up for it. But you never see a school go cheap on the salary because they can offer everything else you mentioned - reason being - money comes first.

And I don't blame the coaches for going for the money. The life span of a coach can very short. So if your hot right now, coming off an NCAA run at a small school and can cash in - by all means. do it. Make your money, set you and your family up for life. I have no issue with that. Like you said - we would all do the same.
 
VCU went all the way up to $2.5MM to keep Shaka. That's pretty close to what he's getting at UT. I think money plays a huge part up to a point, and then the ability to win big takes over. This decision was about more than just $$ in my opinion.
 
when a coach leaves to go up from whatever level to the next level, an increase in remuneration is expected, will always be the case. there are many, many times where a coach is extended a huge raise to move and they do not because there are all those other factors involved. am sure many of us on here have said no to move and make more money and mainly because of the other factors. actually took a cut in my financial package to make a move geographically and knowing i could make it up in other ways. money is important, extremely important but without all the other factors being the right ones as well, money is not the bottom line.
 
Originally posted by URPike:
VCU went all the way up to $2.5MM to keep Shaka. That's pretty close to what he's getting at UT. I think money plays a huge part up to a point, and then the ability to win big takes over. This decision was about more than just $$ in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I may be wrong, but isn't UT paying him $3.5MM? That is 40% more than VCU was willing to go, which is huge.
 
what are the best college coaching jobs out there? Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc.
all of those jobs offer all the best in terms of the "other factors", and all are also among the highest paying jobs in total compensation.
if it was mostly about the other factors, you really shouldn't have to pay those coaches the most. guys would be lining up for the opportunity to coach. but they do get paid the most. because it IS about the money, and I don't say that in a condescending way. we all work for the money.
 
And no state income tax in Texas either - so that 3.5 million is just a little big bigger in Texas.

And I hate the argument some people make when they say - "How much money do you need?". So VCU offered him 2.5 million to stay. Even if Texas came along at just 3 million. That is 500K more per year - lets say after taxes - its just $250K per year more. Who are we to say that is not a significant amount of money to him or his family. He could use that to pay for college for child. He could also use it to pay for his children's houses, trust funds, private school, etc so they literally have no money worries in life. Could you do that with 2.5 million - I am sure you could. But if someone offers you more - why not take it. The more money you have - the longer down the line you can pass it along.

And yes - the other things come into play, I don't disagree. I just think first and foremost - the money is ALWAYS #1.

Like I said before - do you think Shaka leaves VCU if Texas offers him the same exact financial package as VCU? If so - then its not about money. But there is a reason no school ever does that. Cause they know - its about the money. Its a business.
 
again, most coaches, when they leave, are moving up to a better conference and team and thus he will be extended a contract for more money, that is a given and a guarantee. so why do coaches turn down offers with more money and we see them do it every year? because of the other factors, which are huge, your fam, the geographical location, the conf, the school, the new boss, etc., etc. if it was only the money, all coaches would take that new job, they do not. for smart, got a very nice raise, another nice city in which to live, raise his kids, one of the richest schools in the country, one of the top basketball conferences, enormous resources, jets, women, OK, just kidding. if this had been another school offering the money but none of the other things, he would not have gone, for example, clemson, kansas state, ucla. with the new tax structure in place in ca, he would probably have ended up making less money.
 
Or you stay at your current school because you think you got another good year that can raise your pay even more for suitors the following year. Its a gamble - and maybe Shaka knows a thing or two about his team or his sytem and maybe he knew - its time to move on.
 
Probably was the best time for Smart to leave with the talent he had left and also coming in. What would his value be say if he lost again in the 1st round of the tourny in 2016? Not as many schools wanting him and feeling more pressure from RPI nation.

Texas might not have the b-ball resume history, but more than enough resources to get there down the road. Smart seems to love the camera so should be a good fit for the UT TV network. LOL!
 
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