Sometimes a walk is difficult to see and often disputed... cant always tell when a players takes an extra half step. But when a player stops his dribble, holds the ball with both hands, then dribbles again... come on.
Kyle Guy
- Thread starter SpiderK
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If they'd called the DD, we'd all be arguing why they didn't call the foul when the Auburn player grabbed his jersey.
Except Jim Nance, Grant Hill, Bill Raftery, Charles Barkley, Bruce Pearl......
I understand that I am speaking to a biased group and I had no stake in the gaje one way or the other but I dont see the two as being related. The no foul call is judgement, the dd is not. Refs can and do decide not to call a foul... the judgement option is not available on a blatant double dribble.
I disagree. I surely hope refs don’t see and choose not to call a foul. That’s clearly not doing their job.
If they see it and think it’s a foul, and then don’t call it, that’s the same in my book as seeing a double dribble and not calling it. Both are violations, and it’s the refs’ job to call those violations.
Well, I will say this, I have watched a lot of h.s. basketball games the last 6 years, and I can unequivocally say that the great majority of refs at the h.s. level flat out suck, and miss obvious calls like this all of the time. I would say there are about 10-15 % refs that are good. You actually may see them discussing rules, and positioning, etc before the game and even if you don't like the calls, they are consistent. It is a small amount that are actually concerned with their call, not just out to pick up their 90 bucks and get out of dodge.
You would think that in an NCAA game that refs would be top line and be able to make obvious calls. In this case, does anyone actually have a reference to the correct call? Is this similar to the case in which a player catches a pass knocking it down to the ground with a hand (looks like a "dribble") but is allowed to pick it up and dribble again? How is dribbling off a foot interpreted (loose ball) and then can pick up and dribble - because both player had equal opportunity to get the loose ball. What if he dribbled off the other players foot? That is the part that I wonder if the ref did not see. I think only one ref would be watching the ball, as the other refs would be watching their quadrants or sections right?
I would assume that if he dribbled off the other players foot, he could pick it up and dribble again. I will say about 75 percent of the time when a player jumps from out of bounds to save a ball, the ref does not call it out. A pet peeve of mine. They must be looking at the ball in the air and already missed the jump. Wondering if that is the case here? Ball was loose, and ref was looking at the hand/grab of the defender, instead of seeing the ball. In fact we saw in another game where the player jumped from way out of bounds and saved it (my son and I saw immediately, the refs and announcers never mentioned until they saw the replay).
So you see, not so cut and dry.
You would think that in an NCAA game that refs would be top line and be able to make obvious calls. In this case, does anyone actually have a reference to the correct call? Is this similar to the case in which a player catches a pass knocking it down to the ground with a hand (looks like a "dribble") but is allowed to pick it up and dribble again? How is dribbling off a foot interpreted (loose ball) and then can pick up and dribble - because both player had equal opportunity to get the loose ball. What if he dribbled off the other players foot? That is the part that I wonder if the ref did not see. I think only one ref would be watching the ball, as the other refs would be watching their quadrants or sections right?
I would assume that if he dribbled off the other players foot, he could pick it up and dribble again. I will say about 75 percent of the time when a player jumps from out of bounds to save a ball, the ref does not call it out. A pet peeve of mine. They must be looking at the ball in the air and already missed the jump. Wondering if that is the case here? Ball was loose, and ref was looking at the hand/grab of the defender, instead of seeing the ball. In fact we saw in another game where the player jumped from way out of bounds and saved it (my son and I saw immediately, the refs and announcers never mentioned until they saw the replay).
So you see, not so cut and dry.
That is pretty inexplicable. But regardless they arent professional referees and cbs tries to protect the refs and the ncaa during the coverage. It was a horribly terrible non call by a group of refs that are suppose to be the cream of the crop. Can you at least admit it should have been called and a guy standing three feet from the play making a career from reffing basketball should have easily picked it up?
During a fumble the player is not in control of the ball, and therefore, cannot be called for a traveling violation. A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball is unintentionally dropped or slips from a player’s grasp. After a player has ended a dribble and fumbled the ball, that player may recover the ball without violating. Any steps taken during the recovery of a fumble are not traveling, regardless of how far the ball goes and the amount of advantage that is gained. It is always legal to recover a fumble, even at the end of a dribble, however that player cannot begin a new dribble, which would be a double dribble violation. A player who fumbles the ball when receiving a pass may legally start a dribble.
Ok, so all in agreement that this should have been a double dribble ( a fumble per se at the end of the original dribble) HOWEVER, again - just like the 75 % incorrect calls on the jump with foot out of bounds to save - I think the ref was watching the hand check/grab and therefore did not see whose foot the ball hit off. If he did not see it, then he cannot responsibly make the double dribble call.
Just my theory based on refs only being able to look at one thing at a time. Same with post travels. Ref is locked in on whether defense is committing a foul or not up top, offensive player can switch pivot feet 2-3 times without notice sometimes.
Ok, so all in agreement that this should have been a double dribble ( a fumble per se at the end of the original dribble) HOWEVER, again - just like the 75 % incorrect calls on the jump with foot out of bounds to save - I think the ref was watching the hand check/grab and therefore did not see whose foot the ball hit off. If he did not see it, then he cannot responsibly make the double dribble call.
Just my theory based on refs only being able to look at one thing at a time. Same with post travels. Ref is locked in on whether defense is committing a foul or not up top, offensive player can switch pivot feet 2-3 times without notice sometimes.
Meh. I'm not biased, either - I also had no stake in that game. I didn't see anyone from Auburn clamoring for that call when it happened.
Contrast that to a game at the Robins Center, where our crowd is convinced our opponent travels every single trip down the court. If the refs called every walk, games would last 3 hours and the score would be in the 20s.
I was in a massive knockout pool where top prize was over $30K. One guy would have won that if Auburn had won the game. Instead, he gets nothing.
Missed calls happen. Some less egregious than this one, some more.
Contrast that to a game at the Robins Center, where our crowd is convinced our opponent travels every single trip down the court. If the refs called every walk, games would last 3 hours and the score would be in the 20s.
I was in a massive knockout pool where top prize was over $30K. One guy would have won that if Auburn had won the game. Instead, he gets nothing.
Missed calls happen. Some less egregious than this one, some more.
I agree that any ref thinking a foul is committed but not calling it is wrong but my point is that deciding what is a foul is very subjective when a double dribble is not. That is the only point I am making and why I feel the no dd call is one of the most obviously erroneous that I have ever witnessed in a big moment. But just my opinion.
He obviously missed it for a reason... cant imagine he didnt know the rule but the defenders legs/hands were no where near the ball when it hit the dribblers leg.
It's just a missed call, one of dozens every game that go both ways. Nothing more, nothing less. Refs are human.
Congratulations to The University of Virginia and their fans.
I used to be a huge UVA fan growing up. One of my most exciting moments as a sports fan was when they went to the final four after Ralph graduated. I was bummed I had to miss watching the game because I had to work (I was 16 at the time).
Now? Barely got a rise out of me. I guess getting a degree somewhere else and rooting for that team was more personal. It's not much fun now with the current regime, but I hope they can wake up and figure it out so I can have more good memories watching college hoops.
Congrats to Virginia and their fans.
Now? Barely got a rise out of me. I guess getting a degree somewhere else and rooting for that team was more personal. It's not much fun now with the current regime, but I hope they can wake up and figure it out so I can have more good memories watching college hoops.
Congrats to Virginia and their fans.
Congrats to UVA and their fans. It's been said countless times but Bennett is a great coach and class guy. I hate to say it but our (UR) slumber over the last 8 years has kind of taken some of the joy out of watching college basketball for me. The first weekend of the tournament is still great and there were some very fun games down the stretch of March Madness this year but I find myself being more jealous of the coaching and athleticism on display in the tournament than enjoying it. I'm probably just getting old, lol.
Captain, I have had the same feeling for several years now, the March Madness excitement has been dulled by our lack of participation. I did enjoy the heck out of this year. I have been following Texas Tech all year and love the way both them and the Hoos compete on the defensive end - a thing of beauty. Great great championship game. Up until last night's game I was having a lot of trouble seeing how Hunter could be a number 6/7 overall pick in the draft, but he came through yesterday with some huge shots.
Hunter had a great game last night but he has come up small in a lot of big moments before it. I don't see anything he does that would translate to a Top 7 NBA draft pick though. Seems like someone the Sacramento Kings would take.
it's a 3 superstar player draft. couple guys I like after that but no sure things. you're drafting on potential beyond those 3.
Is Hunter definitely declaring?
My kid asked me last night how many 'Hoos were seniors. I had to look it up. Only Salt!
My kid asked me last night how many 'Hoos were seniors. I had to look it up. Only Salt!
So wait, you're saying they were able to become the #1 overall seed LAST YEAR with Guy (sophomore), Jerome (sophomore) and Hunter (sophomore) leading the way? I was told we shouldn't expect to win anything until all our players were juniors and seniors.
Where some make an excuse, others see a challenge to overcome.
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last year's UVA team had two strong seniors (Hall and Wilkins) starting every game for them.
and for the younger guys ... Guy & Jerome were both top 50 players, Hunter and Diakite both top 100. UVA's fishing in a different pond.
and I never said "all" our players had to be upper class.
But ulla told us that all of Texas Tech's players were mediocre recruits, none really highly ranked....
And in part, we are fishing in a different lake because our coach doesn't use the right bait or rod.
And in part, we are fishing in a different lake because our coach doesn't use the right bait or rod.
Right now, I don't think we even have our lines in the water.
Recall what a steaming pile of crap UVA's basketball program was during the Gillen and Leitao era(s), and how boring and insipid it was under Jeff Jones.
The Cavs prove that a great coach makes all the difference in the success and excitement of a program. Shows there is hope for us once our AD grows a set and sends CM packing.
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
the tweet showed stars, but not who else offered.
Tariq Owens - 3 stars (grad transfer from St Johns, tons of offers including Florida St, Miami, Georgetown ...)
Jarrett Culver - 2 stars (Texas, Illinois, OK State, Baylor ...)
Davide Moretti - 3 stars (UConn, Indiana, Utah)
Norense Odiase - 2 stars (Georgia, TCU)
Matt Mooney - 0 stars (grad transfer from S. Dakota, offered by Oregon, TCU)
the stars suggest mediocre recruits. the offers don't. so which do you believe?
I would much rather sign players who other similar or better programs want. Our coach is mostly incapable of doing that, which is a big reason I want him gone. At the same time, if you are going to sign guys few other teams want, you better develop them. Something we also struggle with for the most part.
I don't expect us to land the same kids UVA and TT do, but here's what I do expect:
* Beat lower-caliber programs for recruits almost always
* Beat our level programs for our top recruits as often as they beat us
* Win with younger players in the lineup and don't expect to wait until we have bunch of seniors
* See noticeable improvement in our players from over year to the next.
Virtually none of this has happened the past eight years except the last one, to some extent.
I don't expect us to land the same kids UVA and TT do, but here's what I do expect:
* Beat lower-caliber programs for recruits almost always
* Beat our level programs for our top recruits as often as they beat us
* Win with younger players in the lineup and don't expect to wait until we have bunch of seniors
* See noticeable improvement in our players from over year to the next.
Virtually none of this has happened the past eight years except the last one, to some extent.
Burton fits the criteria, offered by URI, SBU, UMASS, and others ...
Koureissi had a ton of offers including UMASS, Duquesne, GW, Seton Hall, St Louis, URI, Minnesota, USF, and others ...
verbal commits shows Buck and Sherod with huge offers. almost too big. shakes my confidence in verbal commits a bit. impressive if real.
Koureissi had a ton of offers including UMASS, Duquesne, GW, Seton Hall, St Louis, URI, Minnesota, USF, and others ...
verbal commits shows Buck and Sherod with huge offers. almost too big. shakes my confidence in verbal commits a bit. impressive if real.
We could really use a Tariq Owens-type player, someone who can be a legit rim protector with some offensive chops.
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
I thought this was an interesting comparison. what's the constant? the help shot blocker.
Yes, all those guys meet that criteria. Unfortunately those 4 players are the only ones who meet that criteria. We probably have had another 15 recruits over the past 4 years who didn't have any comparable offers to ours.
I personally like UVA's version of the pack line defense, it puts less emphasis on raw athleticism, the hard hedge/quick double team on the perimeter screen really seems to kill the screen and roll and limits 3 point shooting and penetration.
Most of the really successful D1 hoops program have at least one guy who can block shots.
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
Most of the really successful D1 hoops program have at least one guy who can block shots.
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
LOL! The range of what decent can mean. Maybe you can list all their offers and we can give on a scale of 1-10 what decent means. Or maybe easier to say not as good of offers as the 4 players 97 mentioned.
I think that ship has sailed as far as our program is concerned. If we could have sacked CM earlier in the season, and lined JW up, we would probably be making an announcement by the end of this week. After winning the championship, Bennett will likely be at UVA for life, and Williford's price tag will go way up.
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
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