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First NET Rankings-#22

ChoppinBroccoli said:
Well, except that year they were an at-large from the CAA...... :cool:
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An at large bid from the CAA made me wonder a hypothetical. What do you guys think Liberty's record would have had to be this year to get an at large bid? Right now they’re 28-4 and seemingly only in if they win the auto bid. What if they were 30-2? Or 31-1? Would that be enough to get them an at large? Or what if they went undefeated but lost in the conference finals and were 34-1? Trying to just lay out scenarios but what do you guys think? Would an undefeated season even have them “safely” in or only on the bubble? Right now they’re always projected in because of being #1 in the conference but if not would they be considered on the bubble?
 
urmite said:
Yes, but if you go 36-(-2) against Quad 4 for you should be in...
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It is worth noting that before Liberty’s loss in the regular season finale their net rating was in the 40s (believe it was 47)
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
Well, except that year they were an at-large from the CAA...... :cool:
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Yea crazy!! That year they had 9 regular season losses. If I remember the CAA got 3 teams in that year. VCU was 4th in the league that year. Hofstra was above them in conference and beat them 3 times, including in the tournament, and VCU was somehow given the bid over them.
I dont think the CAA has gotten an at large since.
 
fatherspider said:
Yea crazy!! That year they had 9 regular season losses. If I remember the CAA got 3 teams in that year. VCU was 4th in the league that year. Hofstra was above them in conference and beat them 3 times, including in the tournament, and VCU was somehow given the bid over them.
I dont think the CAA has gotten an at large since.
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I'm pretty sure that they had double digit losses. I'll look it up later.
 
fatherspider said:
Yea crazy!! That year they had 9 regular season losses. If I remember the CAA got 3 teams in that year. VCU was 4th in the league that year. Hofstra was above them in conference and beat them 3 times, including in the tournament, and VCU was somehow given the bid over them.
I dont think the CAA has gotten an at large since.
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I remember Palm had them in, and I thought he was crazy. Then, it turned out he was right. Maybe he knows something about teams from Richmond? Because, he has had us in his bracket a lot this year. ;)
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
Right....because that would be crazy granting an at-large bid to a low-major conference that sent 2 teams to the Final Four in 6 years!
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Since 2009 (coincidentally the first final four I attended) Here are how many times each of these conferences have made the Final Four:
Horizon - 2
Missouri Valley - 2
Colonial - 1
West Coast - 1
American - 1
Pac12 - 1

They’re seemingly getting treated like an elite conference this team with 7-8 teams “in” or close to it even though a decade of history shows them having little success.

Since 2009 (the past 11 tournaments) the Pac12’s overall record in the tournament is 54-46 and here are the total appearances in each round:

Sweet 16: 16
Elite Eight: 5
Final Four: 1
 
Also for reference over that same span (since 2009) the Atlantic 10 is 29-38 with 3 sweet 16 appearances and one Elite 8.

So those numbers are indeed worse than the Pac12 but it would be interesting to see how many “one and done” teams there were from the Pac12 that lost in the first round.
 
fatherspider said:
We will be off the bubble if we lose at Dukes IMO. After that we would gave to win it all.
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Exactly. The committee starts deliberating on Tuesday. That's three whole days of discussing bubble teams and seeding before we even tip off our first game.
Do we want them discussing a 23-8 Spider team that's lost it's last two true road tests, or a 24-7 team that's won 4 straight? The idea that we'd rather lose tomorrow in favor of a win next Saturday is absurd.
 
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ChoppinBroccoli said:
Exactly. The committee starts deliberating on Tuesday. That's three whole days of discussing bubble teams and seeding before we even tip off our first game.
Do we want them discussing a 23-8 Spider team that's lost it's last two true road tests, or a 24-7 team that's won 4 straight? The idea that we'd rather lose tomorrow in favor of a win next Saturday is absurd.
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Now, a loss tomorrow for a win next Sunday is a trade I would make. :)
 
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fatherspider said:
I hope the team is looking at it my way nd not yours. Just saying. They need to think this is a due or die game. Get hot right away and never let up. Playing catchup, like at Bonnies, likely wont work out well.
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If my way is losing tomorrow, and still getting to the finals, and your way is winning tomorrow and losing in the semis, I hope they're looking at neither way. I don't think either one of us is trying to say the players might be thinking about which game they might lose. And, I know we both think tomorrow's game is huge, just like we both think the quarter-final and semi-final games in the tourney will be huge. The only thing we disagree on is if we lose one of the next three, which one puts us in better shape. As I said earlier, it's all opinion, and we have no way of knowing right now. Hopefully, we will win at least three in a row and won't have to worry about it.
 
plydogg said:
Also for reference over that same span (since 2009) the Atlantic 10 is 29-38 with 3 sweet 16 appearances and one Elite 8.

So those numbers are indeed worse than the Pac12 but it would be interesting to see how many “one and done” teams there were from the Pac12 that lost in the first round.
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Keep in mind we wouldn't have that record if we had the seeding the Pac 12 does. That makes a big difference in winning % as expected because you have tougher matchups. Part of the whole self fulfilling prophecy these P6 conferences got going on.

There's really no way we could be better than Pac12 considering the seeding. If we reversed seeds with Pac 12 I bet we'd outperform what they did. Likewise if they had our seeds they'd be much worse.

Not an apples to apples comparison, comparing two p6's would be fairer. But life as a mid major, you get underseeded. And then they can say...see these smaller conferences don't perform so great. Well shit we don't get really high seeds, certainly not 1s or 2s, except maybe every 10 years and that inflates winning % of Pac12 or similar.
 
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UR80sfan said:
We had a nice bump in our RPI ranking up to 28th. I understand this ranking has been de-emphasized, but it is still something a lot of people monitor. I like checking out this site, because they seem to update RPI regularly in addition to updating other important info daily. http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2020/schedule/Richmond
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The RPI is more than deemphasized, it has absolutely 0 impact now and isn't considered at all.
 
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fan2011 said:
The RPI is more than deemphasized, it has absolutely 0 impact now and isn't considered at all.
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Actually Jerry Palm was asked if the NCAA uses the RPI in any facet and he said strength of schedule. That the NET does not produce one. Of course they do list SOS on the NCAA's own nitty gritty reports. But it doesn't match RPI exactly. You'd think Palm would know but I was a little surprised/confused by that response. Not sure how NCAA is calculating SOS. That has always varied by source, another thing Palm talked about.
 
I think the committee uses SOS however they want. If they need it to help a team, I think they will probably use whichever one they want that helps that team. If they want to keep a team out, they can find a shaky SOS and keep a team out. Really frustrating when we have no idea which one or ones they use.
 
RPI went from 28 to 25 with the win.

Duquense's dipped from 56 to 57, so hopefully their NET doesn't drop much from 86.
 
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UR80sfan said:
We had a nice bump in our RPI ranking up to 28th. I understand this ranking has been de-emphasized, but it is still something a lot of people monitor. I like checking out this site, because they seem to update RPI regularly in addition to updating other important info daily. http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2020/schedule/Richmond
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That is a really big jump on a night when we were idle. Our opponents (Radford and Hampton) went 2-0, but that shouldn't provide that much of a bump.
There must be some kind of "glitch." Perhaps our DOBO should investigate.
 
97 nailed it, it is human factor with all the numbers, indices, utilized to support any case they wish. it is razor thin and a case can be made for each and every team so just have to abide by their take no matter how it comes down.
 
WebSpinner said:
97 nailed it, it is human factor with all the numbers, indices, utilized to support any case they wish. it is razor thin and a case can be made for each and every team so just have to abide by their take no matter how it comes down.
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I have to think that 24/25 wins will look damn good. That is one major thing we have going for us. It will be hard for them to assume we wouldnt have won a bunch of games in a P6 conference especially since we beat the Big10’s second best team.
 
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Davidson's RPI jumped from 120 to 110 with the win.

NET was 79 coming into the game, so I don't expect quite that big of a jump for them there, but hopefully still enough to get them into top 75.

The problem is that I don't know that a win over GW/La Salle would help their NET very much, and then a loss to us would push them down a few spots. Going to be very close whether they can hang in the top 75 if things play out the way we'd like them to.
 
SFspidur said:
Davidson's RPI jumped from 120 to 110 with the win.

NET was 79 coming into the game, so I don't expect quite that big of a jump for them there, but hopefully still enough to get them into top 75.

The problem is that I don't know that a win over GW/La Salle would help their NET very much, and then a loss to us would push them down a few spots. Going to be very close whether they can hang in the top 75 if things play out the way we'd like them to.
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Does a potential loss to us on neutral court actually push them down? Feels like it may leave them around the same spot.
 
I would think it pushes them down a little, but not much. They just may not have much room to spare.
 
SFspidur said:
Davidson's RPI jumped from 120 to 110 with the win.

NET was 79 coming into the game, so I don't expect quite that big of a jump for them there, but hopefully still enough to get them into top 75.

The problem is that I don't know that a win over GW/La Salle would help their NET very much, and then a loss to us would push them down a few spots. Going to be very close whether they can hang in the top 75 if things play out the way we'd like them to.
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Is Duquesne down 3 and Davidson up 6 in Kenpom?
Maybe NET will mirror that?
 
urmite said:
Is Duquesne down 3 and Davidson up 6 in Kenpom?
Maybe NET will mirror that?
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Davidson moved up 5 in kenpom...74 to 69. Not sure on Duquesne. We moved up only 1 in kenpom right above UNI.
 
Up 7 spots to 37.
Teams passed: Providence, ETSU, Xavier, Arkansas, USC, Utah St., and UNI.

Davidson up to 74. Good.
Radford only down 9 to 185. Not the nuclear disaster it could've been.
We would like for BC to stay above 160, and it would be nice if GM and/or La Salle could climb back over that mark. It's not "huge" but we have a lot more Quad 4 games than other bubble teams.
 
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