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What I think the problem is and why we need a change

PhillySpider

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May 14, 2003
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Sherod is important on offense, BUT, he gets abused defensively. Over and over again a man with the ball is blowing right by him, putting the defense at a disadvantage. He is not the only one getting beat, but it sure seems that he is the most frequent victim. Creates a coaching dilemma because he can be so good on one end of the floor yet such a liability on the other.

This quote from another thread is an example of the problem for much of the Mooney era and sparked me to really try and lay out my case for why I think the time has come for a change. It will be long, but the case for a change isn't as simple as our record sucks, case closed.

As the quote above indicates, we recruit (or at least we get) players who are good on one side of the ball or the other, but rarely both. Even an all-timer like TJ was great on one side and pretty lackluster on the other. But that's not as big a problem as what we do (or don't do) with them over time. Guys who are great on both sides are going to be higher level recruits and always tough for us to get with any sort of consistency. A few more here and there would be nice, but our longer-term success will be built on what we do with the guys we can get. So, what we do with these "limited" recruits is the key and where we have really failed (with a few exceptions) IMHO.

Coaches at programs that can't recruit studs have to do a combination of things to be really consistently successful (i.e. regularly compete for and occasionally win conference titles and regularly compete for and get NCAA bids). (1) They have to identify (correctly) players who can excel in the systems that the coach plays such that they can be a better player in the system than a player who might be a better overall athlete etc. and sign these players in some numbers (to account for misses, injuries etc. - - one a year will not get it done); (2) they have to be able to teach those systems such that the players can excel at (and believe fiercely in) the systems (think about Pete Carrill and the original Princeton offense); (3) they have to be able to improve their individual players skills and abilities in both their areas of strength (to make the systems work) and areas of weakness (i.e. coach them up) ; (4) they have to recognize what their players can and can't do and CONSISTENTLY put them in positions to do what they can do well and avoid situations that call on them to do what they can't do very well.

To me, some combo of all this is what non-traditional powers have to do to be successful. Then they can parlay the success (both as a team and the individual successes of players) into getting players that are even better fits or have fewer weaknesses etc.

Looking at UR in the Mooney era and asking what of this do we do well? Starting with one area where I think it has worked and continues to work is with "really little guys."
We have an offensive system that enables smallish PGs (who as a result of size are NOT as heavily recruited) to be very successful and that has been the case for most of the past ten plus years (KA, KO, SDJ, JG). I think we now are able to use that when it comes to recruiting smallish guys - - So I think it no doubt helped get JG to say look at what Kevin and Kendall and Shawndre did here and the success they had here. Success breeds more success.

(continued in next post)
 
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That's exactly what has to happen for a team like UR to be successful. Seems that with the smallish PG, we hit on all four of the above points. But beyond that success with the smallish PG, I struggle to see much more positive track record. One good (even great) smallish PG (with defensive liabilities that you eventually learn how to cover up) can't be all you have. We (1) continue to recruit guys who are NOT great system fits on either side of the ball, (2) force that square peg into the round hole that is Mooney's systems, with the kids frequently looking uncomfortable while they play (3) fail to see much of any development of players (the biggest problem to me) and (4) continue to run them out there playing the same systems even once they have demonstrated they can't play well in those systems.

What players did we recruit who were really great players for the systems (aside from smallish PG) - - - guys who are A-10 level talent or close but perfect (or closer at least) for what we want to do and as result greater for us than they might have been somewhere else? TJ is one and he was a transfer. Beyond that I don't know. Probably a few, but certainly not a lot. Look at a guy like Khwan. Super athletic etc. and has some real strengths, but not a great system fit (especially offensively) at all. But we play our systems. Period. Never mind that we might have 4 out of 5 guys who aren't optimized for the systems we play.

What players have we seen really develop (again, leaving out the once every 4 years smallish PG). So many of our guys are the same guy in year 4 as they were in year 1 its positively frightening to me. I think this is one reason the hopes on the boards consistently outpace the results on the court. We see guys as freshman, assume a certain amount of development and get excited. But the development rarely (not never, but rarely) meets the expected level. The Terry Allen, DT, Trey Davis class is the epitome of this. Same guys as Seniors as they were as freshman. Seeing a lot of positive development out of Buck or Nick this year? You supposedly see the most improvement in guys from freshman to sophomore year. If anything, I think we end up seeing guys beat down more than built up over their 4 years here (again, the PGs seem to be the consistent exception).

When it comes to teaching our systems and teaching them well enough so our players can excel at them - - - i think this year (on defense especially) is a prime (but not only) example of that not working out. With the exception of JG, all the guys in this years rotation have been in the system for over a year and able to play and/or practice (noting Grant's limits last year meant he was around and involved all year but only physically a participant up until Xmas). Yet virtually all look lost. Not only is the system not helping us, I am convinced we'd be better defensively if we just went out there and told everyone to man up and play with no system at all because our hesitation and lack of confidence is creating all sorts of easy buckets for others.

Most alarming is that CM didn't seem to see this coming at all. In no way was he tamping down expectations pre-season etc. like he is now. The pre-season mantra was "we are young, but we are not inexperienced". He seemingly had no idea we were in such trouble. That to me is that he really doesn't grasp how important his TEACHING the system is. Rather he thinks the system is great so it will work great! And his handling of players over the years shows more of that. Take Solly this year. He isn't playing cause he doesn't know what he is doing on either offense or defense. So he gets run out there, asked to do things its clear he doesn't understand and then gets benched 30 seconds later when he makes the mistake that was all but inevitable. That's just awful coaching to me. You bench guys for lack of effort or when they lose focus and fail to do something they are fully capable and accomplished at doing etc.. You don't do it because you are mad (although you might be), you do it to help them learn the importance of keeping focus or giving effort at all times. When you bench a Solly for a mistake of not understanding what he is supposed to do (not a loss of focus), what is your point? What are you trying to teach him? To do the right thing? Its obvious that the reason he didn't was because he didn't understand what the right thing was, not because he lost focus or effort and benching on your first mistake is no way to develop! Its your job to have taught him what to do and send him out there to do things he is capable of doing. A year and a half in and he doesn't know what to do? Whose fault is that? If its one guy, one time, that cant seem to learn it, maybe that's a player problem. But this same thing has been happening for some players consistently for 10 years - - - That's a coaching problem! And then there is the opposite effect, the "DT effect". The guy knows where to go in every circumstance, where to be, how to get there, where to go next etc. all of it. Understands the systems perfectly. Just never makes any plays while he is perfectly following the system. Also a product of thinking too much - - - just more perfected. Great thinking and no loss of focus means he makes no mental errors. And no plays because the goal isn't to make plays, its not to make errors. And he gets rewarded with lots of praise and playing time while he does little if anything on the court. We need to encourage players to make plays and mistakes and, as they progress, move from making more mistakes than plays to making more plays than mistakes. Some players at times get this luxury but its only because like Buck last year, we have no other option really. A guy like Solly will make more plays than JJ for example, but JJ will make fewer mistakes. We take the fewer mistakes guy whenever its a close call and the more plays guy never develops. But to win more, we need to develop the more plays guy to keep making the plays and over time make fewer mistakes, not to forgo making plays to focus solely on no errors.

And I wont even get into the 4th point from my list above because its been beaten to death here over the years. We simply don't ever change what we do to accomodate what our players maybe can and can't do well. We do what we have always done regardless of players in place or how well that goes etc.

And none of this really changes. I feel like I could have written this post years ago. But the beat goes on. CM's view almost seems to be that we are some sort of really high quality program that should relish all we have accomplished and work hard to repeat it over and over again. Like we are Duke. He doesn't seem to want to change any of this because he thinks were we are is good. Not necessarily this years record, but overall. Some folks think he has sorta checked out - - - I think its more like he's in a way delusional. Listen to him. He's confident that since we are young, we'll work through this and get better etc. etc. etc. Better than where we are now? Back to our "normal" level? I keep expecting him to say, we'll be back to to being a regular in the CBIT very soon now! He has no real aspirations to be any more than what we have been so what we have done and continue to do works great as far he is concerned.

And so, he needs to go in my mind. We have every right to expect better and he doesn't even really aspire to better, much less deliver on it. Consistently OK (until this year) is what we are and I just don't see it getting any better than that with CM. He's a really good person, great representative of the University and he is not incompetent as a coach. In some ways, as some have said on this board, it would be better if we would go 6-24 this year and again next year so firing him would be an easy decision. HIs positives off the court and OK results on it make the decision so much harder. But two things push me clearly over the edge now. One is the results this year are going to be far from OK and the second is an overall sense of how "stale" it all is with Chris and absolutely no reason to think he's going to reinvent himself or UR basketball etc. to overcome this. So to me, its a genuine and highly appreciative thanks for all his effort and all he has done for UR, but time to try something and someone different!
 
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Hard to argue with almost everything you wrote there. The most frustrating thing is the recruiting of players who don't fit the system, coupled with lack of player development. When is the last time we had more than 1 really good shooter in the starting 5?
 
I think what happens is Jaba the Hardt comes in with his all knowing Good Ole Boy network. Evaluates where he is coming from - very mediocre Bucknell team (save for one NBA player, losing record and just lost to BU at home). Speaks with Queally. Decide we are on the upward trajectory at Tick land. Does nothing. Buck transfers. Do nothing. Contract for Mooney expires. Then what? Hire Gill back. Life goes on. K by this time has already checked out and is a personal assistant to Bennett at UVA, Moliva is coaching youth basketball and teaching the half court weave offense, and Ulla is the new SID.
 
I would add one thing to Philly's post. Some of it is on the player or on recruiting players who are self driven to become better. TJ was the exception he did what it took to get better. On the other end I recall asking a player's Dad 'did your son work on his shooting and foul shots during the off season' and got back a sheepish shrug and a mumbled 'not really'.

I'm purposely leaving the names out.
 
Philly, please print off your entire post and send it to John Hardt. Or bring it to the next home game so a bunch of us can add our names to it first. You said everything that needs to be said. Thank you.
 
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Good post. I generally agree with the notable exception that I think our guys develop at an average rate. That is to say, I think they get better, but it's likely not where it could be with better coaching and recognition of what guys do well. Terry Allen was a far better player as a senior than as a freshman, so it's not exclusively about developing small guys.

The overarching sentiment is on track though, which is that we've been mired in a "just good enough" state that kept the moderate to optimistic fan hoping for a better result next year. I still don't know that a single bad year is enough for the AD to pull the trigger on letting Chris go. Two years in a row is a no brainer to me, I think Hardt will maybe decide he only needs to see this current year as he doesn't own CM or his contract.
 
The problem is that Mooney's system is too complicated and new kids coming in take 2 years to learn it and get comfortable; while our A10 opponents and coaches have played against the Mooney system for 13 years and know it inside and out. So the opposition knows the system better than our own players.

In a nutshell....
 
+1. Am hoping that our new AD cuts and pastes the above into a document that he can study and evaluate and do something about. Change is needed.
 
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The problem is that Mooney's system is too complicated and new kids coming in take 2 years to learn it and get comfortable; while our A10 opponents and coaches have played against the Mooney system for 13 years and know it inside and out. So the opposition knows the system better than our own players.

In a nutshell....

The really sad thing is that I honestly don't think the system is that complicated. I see lots of stuff coaching my AAU groups and its not like what we do is somehow so much more difficult etc. I am at a loss to explain why it seems so consistently hard for our kids to learn. I have actually cut and broken down film on us to try and understand what we are doing that makes it so hard.

I will say this - - - on offense, we don't do anything especially novel or complex. Defensively, about 90% of what we do is standard stuff. The last 10% is very subtle and "advanced".

On offense, our system is a more complex system than say the dribble drive offense that a lot of teams run or any of the pick and roll heavy offenses that are in vogue today, but as a general matter simpler offenses work best in the hands of players who go out and make plays on their own. The pick and roll for example works great if both the ball handler and the screener can shoot the three and finish at the rim AND you can surround them with guys who can knock down shots to stymie help defense. Its super simple stuff because its theory is just to get an advantage and go one on one. But you need good/great one on one guys. For most of the NCAA teams, they need a system that's more complex than that to help create good scoring opportunities collaboratively rather than one on one. Our system has no more reads or complexities or rules than many others. Virtually all offensive systems have really two ways to score built in - - "advantage situations" and "system shots". Advantage situations are what they sound like, the offensive players and the ball move until as a result there is some sort of advantage created (e.g. your 7 footer is on the block covered by their PG or your slasher is on the wing with no help defense in position etc. or your defender is overplaying a passing lane) and you attack the advantage. How you attack etc. is less scripted and more about the guy with the one on one advantage using it however it can best be used (e.g. you cut backdoor when your guy overplays the passing lane). Create an advantage and attack. System shots are more specific. So, you are running your system to include a screen for your best shooter coming off of it to a spot where he really likes to shoot. You are looking specifically at that point in the offense for that shot. But they are not mutually exclusive. Any system has both types of opportunities built in. So, in shutting down that system shot off the screen, the other team ends up with their PG on your PF in the paint. You have created an advantage and you attack with that. The threat of the system shot created the advantage in that case. What I see in our system is that like all systems, it has lots of spots where the right play is probably to just try take an advantage and attack etc. but we seem to be very passive in looking for these opportunities or attacking them - - - settling instead to look only for the "system shot" almost all the time (except when the shot clock is down to the end). This is a very tough way to be successful because system shots can be taken away in a lot of different ways especially if you don't fear the advantage you may give up while taking away the system shot. Its this passiveness that in my mind causes our struggles on offense. It also makes the offense look more complicated because after we don't get a system shot, we keep running the offense looking for the next system shot which may take several actions to develop. It is isn't any more complicated, we just stay with it longer.

On defense, as I said, the core of what we do is the same as lots of folks (or at least looks the same). We switch a lot both on and off the ball and those switches are the core of our defensive philosophy. That's a theory that your defense is premised on. Many coaches adopt a "no switches" premise to their defensive philosophy. And then spend all their time teaching kids to fight through, over and under screens and how the screener's defender has to hedge or trap (or whatever) the screen and then recover but never switch etc. Where you should be positionally in respect to the ball, your man, your help responsibility etc before, during and after switches (and when to switch obviously) are what our defense is all about. Most of what we do is standard stuff for switching type defenses. We do have a little bit more complexity in some of what we do to "hand people off" as we play through a possession. The idea here being that while there wasn't a screen or similar action to trigger a switch, a player will still "hand off" (or switch) his man to another player. We hand off more than many teams. Communication is a huge part of this. What I can't tell is how complex our reads are for doing "the right thing" within the defense. What we end up doing doesn't seem all that tough, but we consistently see a lot of hesitation and a lot of one guy doing one thing and another guy seemingly expecting something else. That implies to me that the "reads" that tell the kids what to do and when to do it are too many or too complex. For example, a super simple read may be, if the ball is below the FT line do X but if the ball is above the FT line do Y. But they can also get very complex, requiring players to assess multiple factors to know what to do - - If the ball is below the FT line and your man is in the outer one-third of the court, do X, but if the ball is below the FT line and your man is in the center of 1/3 of the court do Y and if the ball is above the FT line do Z. This can mushroom very quickly as you add in another factor (following on the example above - - adding in some different approaches now based on whether the defenders man is ball side or weak side). I suspect our reads are complex given what we see etc.

This is a sign of a coach who is usually really good at x's and O's and theory. He/she knows what needs to happen for it to all be perfect. Great coaches make this work because they are also great teachers and can somehow teach all that to their kids, giving them just what they can handle, keeping them all at the same level, expanding it slowly but surely but always allowing the kids to have a system in hand they play with confidence and understanding etc. But not all great x's and o's guys are great teachers. And that can be difficult or even disastrous. If as a coach, I only know 60 % of what you know as a coach, but mi kids can execute 100% of what I know cause I can teach 'em great, but your kids can only execute 50 % of what you know, who is better off?

This is CM to me. He is a very good basketball guy and I think he is a real thinker so he knows what needs to happen theory wise for everything to work etc. But I am not sure he is a great teacher at all. And I am not sure he has the ability to recognize guys who he can teach the stuff to from guys maybe he can't. The reason I think he won't change the systems is because he is totally convinced they are the "best" systems and all he needs if for guys to do what he tells them to do; failing to recognize that the best system will always be one your guys can play the best not the one that's best in a theoretical discussion.
 
In short, coaching, like most things, is all about communication. If you can't communicate, you can't get people to do what you want them to do.
 
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Reading Philly's post, in very simple terms I agree that we seem to run offense to run offense (system), instead of looking to take advantage of what is presented. I coach summer summer and fall ball some, and I am not much of an X and O's coach, but one thing I try to stress to players is that every time you catch the ball you need to be looking to score or create a scoring opportunity of the bounce, pass or drive. I hate when players are just looking for the next pass, and that is what it seems we are perpetually in search of until 5 seconds left on the clock. I just saw in a h.s. game the other team was in man, and a guy subbed in and no one was guarding our ball handler. He proceeded to dribble in place above the key looking to start the play. Shouldn't happen in h.s, and feel the same thing happens with our offense.
 
Philly - like your passion and time commitment to analyzing our program. If you do not presently work as a sports analyst/ reporter you might consider doing that as an adjunct profession to what you are doing now.
 
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Really well said again, Philly. You have explained in true basketball terms what I think many of us have witnessed for years and felt frustrated and confused about, but maybe unable to articulate in a basketball sense.
 
Philly, well said. I am not nearly an X's and O's guy as you. I like our offense a lot. I think it works and allows us to get good shots on most occassions (with the exception being when they other team goes into a zone defense, which has proven to be a kryptonite to our ball movement philosophy that just bogs down our offense). However, while our offense allows us to get good shots, we seem to lack the type of players who can hit those shots with the consistency we need to. I think Mooney has been misrecruiting for his system for years. I watch who Davidson recruits and think those guys would excel in a Mooney based offense. Coincidentally, we have recruited many of those guys and lost a lot of those guys to Davidson.

Our defense on the other hand, I am not a fan of. It is far too confusing and takes too long for our players to learn. It also in my opinion bleeds passivity into our players. Players are thinking way too hard about where they need to be, do they need to make the switch or not. Instead of just playing good hard nosed defense and likewise keeping the guards on the other teams guards and big vs bigs. This is a big reason we are a bad rebounding team, Too much thinking and the wrong guys in the wrong spots when a shot goes up.
 
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To me, in more simple terms, it comes down to FLEXIBILITY. Is the coach so convinced that there is only one correct answer, that he is unwilling to try out new approaches when his answer is not working. We clearly are not seeing a high level of flexibility, and this is one of the key attributes of an outstanding coach.

Great coaches adjust their systems based on the individual skills of their players. Our player skills have changed radically in the past 3 seasons, from when we had TD and DT, and TA, guys who were less than stellar shooters, to a team now that shoots respectably well. Yet, I have seen little if any change in the approach. I see flexibility as the trait that is sinking this ship, and we are now seeing the water coming in at a much faster rate....
 
To me, in more simple terms, it comes down to FLEXIBILITY. Is the coach so convinced that there is only one correct answer, that he is unwilling to try out new approaches when his answer is not working. We clearly are not seeing a high level of flexibility, and this is one of the key attributes of an outstanding coach.

Great coaches adjust their systems based on the individual skills of their players. Our player skills have changed radically in the past 3 seasons, from when we had TD and DT, and TA, guys who were less than stellar shooters, to a team now that shoots respectably well. Yet, I have seen little if any change in the approach. I see flexibility as the trait that is sinking this ship, and we are now seeing the water coming in at a much faster rate....

While being flexible and adjusting the system to the players sounds like it would be a great attribute for a coach, can someone point me to an article or something about a great coach who does this? When I think of great/successful coaches I think of coach K, Roy Williams, Jim Boeheim, Bill Self, John Calipari, etc. Do these guys change their system to fit their players more than Mooney? If they do it doesn't seem to show up in the stats, their teams tend to have consistent and distinctive statistical profiles year after year. I haven't heard of many coaches praised for their flexibility.
 
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