What happens if Mooney stays or goes?

[UR80sfan]

This is a hypothetical question because there is an extremely low probability he is going anywhere over the next couple years, however there are people on this forum who are constantly posting they want him gone.

If Mooney stays I think we will win 20 games next year and make the NIT. The following year we make the NCAA. If we get Bryce, we win 25 games next year and NCAA 3 years in a row. We will also sell out a majority of home games.

If Mooney goes we are going to be looking like the University of Pittsburgh. Many players will ask to be released and we will finish in the bottom 3 of the A10 each of the next 3 years. Attendance will drop off significantly. The Mooney haters will continue to complain.

 

[MolivaManiac]

See Dooley >> Beilein.

 

[Octapod]

Lot of big "ifs" there either way.

This is a hypothetical question because there is an extremely low probability he is going anywhere over the next couple years, however there are people on this forum who are constantly posting they want him gone.

If Mooney stays I think we will win 20 games next year and make the NIT. The following year we make the NCAA. If we get Bryce, we win 25 games next year and NCAA 3 years in a row. We will also sell out a majority of home games.

If Mooney goes we are going to be looking like the University of Pittsburgh. Many players will ask to be released and we will finish in the bottom 3 of the A10 each of the next 3 years. Attendance will drop off significantly. The Mooney haters will continue to complain.

 

[plydogg]

See Dooley >> Beilein.

On the contrary. See Jamie Dixon >> Kevin Stallings.

Sometimes you Don't know what you've got til its gone.

For every success story of firing a coach and bringing a new one in there are probably 5 stories of it not working out

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

On the contrary. See Jamie Dixon >> Kevin Stallings.

Sometimes you Don't know what you've got til its gone.

For every success story of firing a coach and bringing a new one in there are probably 5 stories of it not working out

Jamie Dixon wasn't fired, he went to his alma mater and is already back in the tournament.

Dooley went to D3 Delaware Valley.

 

[whampas]

On the contrary. See Jamie Dixon >> Kevin Stallings.

Sometimes you Don't know what you've got til its gone.

For every success story of firing a coach and bringing a new one in there are probably 5 stories of it not working out

Name 5 off the top of your head going back 3 years.

 

[fan2011]

See Dooley >> Beilein.

Dooley to Beilein type improvement is likely if we retain our players next year no matter who the coach is. That tends to happen when you return a ton of minutes and have lots of upperclassmen. The 3 A10 teams to receive bids this year returned the most minutes in from last year, and all were top 55 in returning minutes in D1. The year before, the top 2 minutes continuity teams made the NCAAs. Going further back the trend continues, returning a ton of minutes is a good indicator of improved performance, often times drastically improved performance.

 

[fan2011]

Jamie Dixon wasn't fired, he went to his alma mater and is already back in the tournament.

Dooley went to D3 Delaware Valley.

Dixon wasn't fired just like Gill wasn't fired.

 

[nathanw19]

Mooney isn’t as bad as Dooley was. I’m no Mooney for life guy, but that comparison isn’t fair.

If Mooney stays, probably 20 wins. If he goes and no players leave, probably 20 wins.

 

[Spiders10]

If Mooney stays, probably 20 wins.

So looking like Mooney Passes Tarrant Night is going to be in late Dec or early Jan?

 

[Eight Legger]

Plydogg doesnt know anything about Dooley or Beilein during their time here, so it's unfair to expect him to understand, in all candor. But the comparison is closer than not close.

 

[keefusb]

If we make the right hire to replace CM, we may not lose anyone, and our recruiting profile will likely improve significantly.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Jamie Dixon wasn't fired, he went to his alma mater and is already back in the tournament.

Dooley went to D3 Delaware Valley.

Also, Jamie Dixon regularly took his teams to the NCAA tourney and everyone except Pitt already knew Kevin Stallings sucked.

Assuming John Hardt and Paul Queally don't hire someone that everyone else knows sucks, we should be good.

 

[spider fan]

Mark that moment when Mooney passes Tarrant in number of wins with an asterisk as more games per season now then when Tarrant was coaching. Also Mooney would be in season 14 while Tarrant coached for 12 seasons. Winning percentage Tarrant leads .655 over Beilein .654 and Mooney is at .552.

 

[plydogg]

Also, Jamie Dixon regularly took his teams to the NCAA tourney and everyone except Pitt already knew Kevin Stallings sucked.

Assuming John Hardt and Paul Queally don't hire someone that everyone else knows sucks, we should be good.

All I meant to give was a scenario with a recent coaching change after fans being disappointed with their coach. Pitt making the NCAA regularly is what they got but they wanted more despite it not being realistic. That same scenario can be applied to Richmond with thinking we deserve better than what we've had. 7 years without a tourney appearance is a downer. But 2 over a 9 year span isn't. The biggest mistake Mooney made was making the tournament back to back years instead of spreading them out.

 

[MolivaManiac]

To the rest of your post, I offered my opinion. A Mooney truther started this thread, by the way.
So who is it that can't get away from this topic, anyway?

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

You're completely right plydogg. We all have opinions and no reason to get personal when disagreeing with another's opinon.

 

[UR80sfan]

Also, Jamie Dixon regularly took his teams to the NCAA tourney and everyone except Pitt already knew Kevin Stallings sucked.

Assuming John Hardt and Paul Queally don't hire someone that everyone else knows sucks, we should be good.

I would not include Paul Queally in your posts. He has a very different opinion than you do on how thing are going with the program.

 

[MolivaManiac]

I would not include Paul Queally in your posts. He has a very different opinion than you do on how thing are going with the program.

Tell us more.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Mooney isn’t as bad as Dooley was. I’m no Mooney for life guy, but that comparison isn’t fair.

It's more fair than comparing Mooney to Jamie Dixon.

Now, if we
1) Reduce Mooney's buyout allowing him to go to Princeton
2) He takes Princeton to the NCAA in 2020
3) We hire a terrible coach to replace him

it becomes a little more apt.

 

[plydogg]

Plydogg, you sound alot like my wife when she is being passive aggressive here. Impressive.

To the rest of your post, I offered my opinion. A Mooney truther started this thread, by the way.
So who is it that can't get away from this topic, anyway?

That's an accomplishment! I bet she (like my girlfriend) is VERY good at being passive aggressive.

My biggest problem is always wanting to give my opinion on things and am bull headed. Which normally is a pretty bad fit. I think the point you made is very valid. I didn't want to reply to that guys post about me because I figured he was seeking attention. You were the one originally discussing with me so figured it would be the best post to respond to. I won't pretend I know what fans were feeling in the late 90s and early 2000's when Beilein was here and the coach before him. Hell I was still walking around in Huggies when Dooley was there and probably still wetting the bed during Beilein's tenure.

The reason I brought up the Pitt comparison is that two of my best friends (and the 2 people I went to the A10 tournament with) are from Pittsburgh (they went to the games there this weekend) and are bigger Pitt fans than Richmond fans. The way they felt about Dixon and wanting a change and now have done a complete 180 on that thinking. If/when a change gets made we'll see how it would change things but at the end of the day if Mooney is fired and we start the year 3-0 there will be parties being thrown about Mooney being gone. But if we start 0-3 the "I told you so" crowd comes out. Just like after the Patriots opening day loss when every sports outlet in America was writing about Brady being done and too old. Sorry this post kind of spiraled from one point to another, just wanted to get my though process out there. I fear for a couple of people viewing our discussions my disagreement is seen as dissent when it is not.

 

[ur2K]

Mooney isn’t as bad as Dooley was. I’m no Mooney for life guy, but that comparison isn’t fair.

If Mooney stays, probably 20 wins. If he goes and no players leave, probably 20 wins.

Sort of agree but Mooney just lost 20 games this year, Dooley did that too

 

[UR80sfan]

Tell us more.

I had a conversation with Paul a little over a week ago. I am not going to quote Paul without his permission, but he is much more positive than most people on this forum.

 

[MolivaManiac]

I had a conversation with Paul a little over a week ago. I am not going to quote Paul without his permission, but he is much more positive than most people on this forum.

Look, I think we've all pretty well come to grips with the fact there will be no change for another 12 months, at least. But what did you expect him to tell you, that he was about to stroke Mooney a 5 million dollar check to go away?

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

The reason I brought up the Pitt comparison is that two of my best friends (and the 2 people I went to the A10 tournament with) are from Pittsburgh (they went to the games there this weekend) and are bigger Pitt fans than Richmond fans. The way they felt about Dixon and wanting a change and now have done a complete 180 on that thinking.

Jamie Dixon was at Pitt.........13 years! So I guess there is that similarity.
In those 13 years, he made the NCAA 11 times, NIT once and CBI once (champion).

So I can see why their frustrations are so comparable.

 

[urfan1]

Reminder to ALL posters, no personal attacks on one another, feel free to disagree, feel free to joke and jest

 

[Ulla1]

Just saying, stuff happens.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Hmm. Can't spell Queally without U,L,L,A.

Just saying.

 

[Captain Anderson]

Just saying, stuff happens.

View embedded media

Clemson has 3 starters that were transfers along with two rotation players. Their administration is totally behind athletics in terms of helping the coaches get transfers in, etc. Their President personally helps with football and basketball recruiting, meets with recruits and parents, etc. They also just built a Taj Mahal football complex and renovated all their basketball facilities. I'm not a huge fan of keeping the status quo and just "hoping" guys will improve as they get older. Personally I feel that we need to revamp our entire program from the coach to how our administration supports the program. Make the basketball program the flagship athletic program for the University and support it as such or stop trying to fool everyone into thinking we want to be the best.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

So looking like Mooney Passes Tarrant Night is going to be in late Dec or early Jan?

Mooney Passes Mills Night was February 1, 2017 at VCU.

 

[spider23]

I had a conversation with Paul a little over a week ago. I am not going to quote Paul without his permission, but he is much more positive than most people on this forum.

We are screwed

 

[CarolinaSpider]

If Clemson had season like ours, BB would have been gone. Also their booster
support at Clemson is amazing and has UR in the minor leagues. What if we
have a turn around season like Clemson next year? Is the foundation in place and
do we have the extra pieces in place to make this happen? I do believe the player
foundation is in place but the extra needed pieces is the mystery.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Question that started this thread was "What happens if Mooney stays or goes." The answer is DEPENDS upon who is the coach next year. If Mooney stays as expected, we rightfully should only expect moderately better team performance. Players who are a year older, a year more experienced, a year more mature should produce a few more wins.

The only thing that will move the needle significantly are "major" impact changes. A grad transfer who is REALLY good (and big & strong) could make a major impact, or a well above average recruit (like Golden) could make a major impact. Anything less, history tells us will not be earth shaking.

IF a new coach was brought in, then the answer is as simple as "DEPENDS" upon who the new coach is. If you bring in a low skilled nobody then your program is going to be screwed for years. If you get a star performer coach (like Beilein when he came here, or Buzz Williams to Tech) then your program turns around immediately.

 

[spider23]

Question that started this thread was "What happens if Mooney stays or goes." The answer is DEPENDS upon who is the coach next year. If Mooney stays as expected, we rightfully should only expect moderately better team performance. Players who are a year older, a year more experienced, a year more mature should produce a few more wins.

The only thing that will move the needle significantly are "major" impact changes. A grad transfer who is REALLY good (and big & strong) could make a major impact, or a well above average recruit (like Golden) could make a major impact. Anything less, history tells us will not be earth shaking.

IF a new coach was brought in, then the answer is as simple as "DEPENDS" upon who the new coach is. If you bring in a low skilled nobody then your program is going to be screwed for years. If you get a star performer coach (like Beilein when he came here, or Buzz Williams to Tech) then your program turns around immediately.

I am in agreement here. I don't think Mooney is terrible, but he does not recruit enough to overcome his coaching deficiencies. If we can upgrade the pieces significantly around our nice core, we could be in decent shape next year. If we lose any key guys to transfer we could be in for another similar W-L season. If we ever do get a new coach, the hire will be critical. We need a home run, or could be looking at an unbelievable period of stagnation, especially considering the resources that have been put into the program the last few years.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Question that started this thread was "What happens if Mooney stays or goes." The answer is DEPENDS upon who is the coach next year. If Mooney stays as expected, we rightfully should only expect moderately better team performance. Players who are a year older, a year more experienced, a year more mature should produce a few more wins.

The only thing that will move the needle significantly are "major" impact changes. A grad transfer who is REALLY good (and big & strong) could make a major impact, or a well above average recruit (like Golden) could make a major impact. Anything less, history tells us will not be earth shaking.

IF a new coach was brought in, then the answer is as simple as "DEPENDS" upon who the new coach is. If you bring in a low skilled nobody then your program is going to be screwed for years. If you get a star performer coach (like Beilein when he came here, or Buzz Williams to Tech) then your program turns around immediately.

Exactly. The assumption that there will be a mass exodus if we bring in a dynamic young coach (for example, one who took his young men to the tournament - the same young men who were in last place their freshman year) is ludicrous.

 

[Captain Anderson]

On the contrary. See Jamie Dixon >> Kevin Stallings.

Sometimes you Don't know what you've got til its gone.

For every success story of firing a coach and bringing a new one in there are probably 5 stories of it not working out

Plydogg, the problem is we do know what we have. A really nice guy who usually averages around 18-20 wins a season and has gone to the NCAA tournament 2 times in 13 years. Im not trying to pick on you personally but I'm baffled by the fear some of our fans have of making a move. It's the same fear that caused us to sign Mooney to the ridiculous 10 year contract. There are lots of great coaches out there who could get us to the NCAA's consistently. We need to be proactive and stop thinking of ourselves as this little school that gets in the Dance once in a decade.

 

[97spiderfan]

I don't get this whole how much of a "nice guy" image with Mooney. Watching the NCAA tourney and seeing countless interviews of coaches, most of them seem like pretty nice guys. Yeah, sure you have your Boeheim's, Cal, Huggy type coaches who are d*cks but win big, so they keep there job.

I don't see Mooney as being "nicer" than most the average basketball coach. In fact, when I see how some of the other coaches engage their fan bases, to me, Mooney comes off a bit aloof.

 

[spider23]

Agree, other coaches mention the fans and appear on the surface "nicer" than Mooney. Mooney comes off as too good for the fans or supporters. I could understand if he was winning big, but he's not.

 

[spiderman]

I don't see this at all. but whatever.

 

[plydogg]

Plydogg, the problem is we do know what we have. A really nice guy who usually averages around 18-20 wins a season and has gone to the NCAA tournament 2 times in 13 years. Im not trying to pick on you personally but I'm baffled by the fear some of our fans have of making a move. It's the same fear that caused us to sign Mooney to the ridiculous 10 year contract. There are lots of great coaches out there who could get us to the NCAA's consistently. We need to be proactive and stop thinking of ourselves as this little school that gets in the Dance once in a decade.

You're right, I guess I just am very pessimistic when it comes to the program. I have lower expectations than a lot of people on this board. And usually when I say that I get met with people calling me out or laughing at me or calling it pathetic that my expectations are low. But it is like being a Browns fan the past decade. Your expectations are low because it is realistic. I like to always keep my expectations realistic and in my opinion I think we're a program that makes an NCAA tournament 1-2 times a decade. Maybe some of that comes from not making since the time I started college at Richmond, hell probably a lot of it is. I guess maybe what I'm trying to say and maybe all of my way of thinking is simply that the way I think is based on what I've seen. And I've never seen that success so I can't expect it.

One question I had though that I brought up and just thought was interesting.

Mooney made the NCAA's in back to back years. What if he had made them in 2009-2010. What if instead of making it the next year he made it in 2013-2014 instead? The biggest knock on him is that he hasn't made it in so many years but what if he had made the same amount but they were simply spread out more?