We lost a road conference game

[spiderman]

I know it's a season of frustration talking, but the predictable jumping off a ledge after losing a road conference game borders on irrational.

If you taped the game (and didn't delete it instantly like I did), watch it again. we played well. obviously better on offense than defense, but we played well. you'll find a play here or there that we didn't, but overall we were good. we shot well (but missed too many foul shots again). we passed well. we only had 4 turnovers. and despite what I've read here all morning we defended and rebounded pretty well. not amazing, but decent. it was a really good basketball game.

I know people will lose their minds reading that. watch it again. yeah, Ekwu banged and got some offensive boards. we only gave up 9. that's one more than we had, yet people complain we never hit the offensive glass. they had a few more defensive boards than us because we missed a few more shots and foul shots.

the switching on defense didn't kill us. yeah, Sullivan hit a couple shots over TJ. you think SDJ is shutting him down? Reigel played out of his mind but shots were contested. there were few uncontested shots. heck, we had more open looks than they did. but they hit shots. and they hit shots when pressured very late in the shot clock. Aldridge hit TOUGH shots. he's a pretty good player. and they hit all their foul shots. we did everything right down the stretch, but they didn't miss.

while I'm at it, for pete's sake enough about the 3-2 defense! lol. I know you all just want something different, but the 3-2 is nothing magical. I read 175 posts calling for it each week. I know you think that mixing it up will change things, or if one thing isn't working you try something else. I'm just saying the 3-2 won't solve anything. feel free to disagree as I know you will.

I know I'll get killed for this. Pollyanna, rose colored glasses, etc. we lost a road game. crap happens, yet the board acts like someone peed in their cornflakes. we needed to take care of our home court. last night wasn't the problem. we played pretty well.

 

[MolivaManiac]

I appreciate your perspective but Gibbs didn't play and they weren't very good with Gibbs.

We are 6-7 with a veteran team. It's just not good.

 

[SpiderHoops32]

I kinda get what you're saying, but at some point you actually have to WIN games to get in the NCAA tournament. We can make all the excuses we want for why we lose, but that won't ever help our NCAA chances.

 

[KWeaver]

I know it's a season of frustration talking, but the predictable jumping off a ledge after losing a road conference game borders on irrational.

If you taped the game (and didn't delete it instantly like I did), watch it again. we played well. obviously better on offense than defense, but we played well. you'll find a play here or there that we didn't, but overall we were good. we shot well (but missed too many foul shots again). we passed well. we only had 4 turnovers. and despite what I've read here all morning we defended and rebounded pretty well. not amazing, but decent. it was a really good basketball game.

I know people will lose their minds reading that. watch it again. yeah, Ekwu banged and got some offensive boards. we only gave up 9. that's one more than we had, yet people complain we never hit the offensive glass. they had a few more defensive boards than us because we missed a few more shots and foul shots.

the switching on defense didn't kill us. yeah, Sullivan hit a couple shots over TJ. you think SDJ is shutting him down? Reigel played out of his mind but shots were contested. there were few uncontested shots. heck, we had more open looks than they did. but they hit shots. and they hit shots when pressured very late in the shot clock. Aldridge hit TOUGH shots. he's a pretty good player. and they hit all their foul shots. we did everything right down the stretch, but they didn't miss.

while I'm at it, for pete's sake enough about the 3-2 defense! lol. I know you all just want something different, but the 3-2 is nothing magical. I read 175 posts calling for it each week. I know you think that mixing it up will change things, or if one thing isn't working you try something else. I'm just saying the 3-2 won't solve anything. feel free to disagree as I know you will.

I know I'll get killed for this. Pollyanna, rose colored glasses, etc. we lost a road game. crap happens, yet the board acts like someone peed in their cornflakes. we needed to take care of our home court. last night wasn't the problem. we played pretty well.

When it's the exception, I would say we can handle it. Sadly, it's the rule.

 

[Eight Legger]

We also lost FOUR conference home games. I wouldn't be as upset about losing a road game if we had taken care of business at home, but we have failed miserably there.

 

[72Spider]

Spiderman I appreciate your optimistic view but unfortunately it doesnt square with reality.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I kinda get what you're saying, but at some point you actually have to WIN games to get in the NCAA tournament. We can make all the excuses we want for why we lose, but that won't ever help our NCAA chances.

X2

Correct - There are no excuses. It is who we are. We have the ability to play really well for periods of a game, but unfortunately then go dry. There have been games this year where we have had "complete" games, but not enough to be classified a top of the conference team and an NCAA team. I'm still baffled, as I would have probably laid down money before the start of the season to think we would be a lock for NCAA Tournament.

 

[MrTbone]

I like the optimism spiderman, and I'm usually against the "sky is falling" reaction, but I do think there's validity to board sentiment. There seems to be a lack of adjustment somewhere that suggests we aren't taking steps to improve. I know that's my frustration, and I gather that many of the non-fringe posters would agree.

I think the guys played a pretty good game. As I posted elsewhere, 52% from 2, 41% from 3, 9 steals, only 4 turnovers. That's a winning formula most nights. But we have shown an inability to stop opponents when on D.

I think it's a lost season, so blow it up a bit and try something new. I don't think there's too much downside to that.

 

[bongturk]

I know it's a season of frustration talking, but the predictable jumping off a ledge after losing a road conference game borders on irrational.

If you taped the game (and didn't delete it instantly like I did), watch it again. we played well. obviously better on offense than defense, but we played well. you'll find a play here or there that we didn't, but overall we were good. we shot well (but missed too many foul shots again). we passed well. we only had 4 turnovers. and despite what I've read here all morning we defended and rebounded pretty well. not amazing, but decent. it was a really good basketball game.

I know people will lose their minds reading that. watch it again. yeah, Ekwu banged and got some offensive boards. we only gave up 9. that's one more than we had, yet people complain we never hit the offensive glass. they had a few more defensive boards than us because we missed a few more shots and foul shots.

the switching on defense didn't kill us. yeah, Sullivan hit a couple shots over TJ. you think SDJ is shutting him down? Reigel played out of his mind but shots were contested. there were few uncontested shots. heck, we had more open looks than they did. but they hit shots. and they hit shots when pressured very late in the shot clock. Aldridge hit TOUGH shots. he's a pretty good player. and they hit all their foul shots. we did everything right down the stretch, but they didn't miss.

while I'm at it, for pete's sake enough about the 3-2 defense! lol. I know you all just want something different, but the 3-2 is nothing magical. I read 175 posts calling for it each week. I know you think that mixing it up will change things, or if one thing isn't working you try something else. I'm just saying the 3-2 won't solve anything. feel free to disagree as I know you will.

I know I'll get killed for this. Pollyanna, rose colored glasses, etc. we lost a road game. crap happens, yet the board acts like someone peed in their cornflakes. we needed to take care of our home court. last night wasn't the problem. we played pretty well.

Giving up 82 points to a team without Gibbs and one other guy IS something to be bothered by. Their team doesn't even average 80 points and Gibbs is averaging 25. I didn't see the game and listening on the internet doesn't tell who got beat on defense so I will have to wait until i get home Sunday night to watch the tape.
Fair or not, if a guy scores 25 and gives up 20, he is not hurting the team. If you score 2 and give up 10( unless you have a ton of assists and/or rebounds, you are hurting the team.
In this game we scored enough to win. We just played very poor defense, I don't care how many contested shots they made.
I don't think a 3-2 defense is the total solution but throughout the season Mooney's defense has resulted in way too many big man/small man mismatches. Mooney should have realized long before this that this group of players needs a defense which is easier to play.
Wade took over a new team and installed multiple defenses. Are their players that much smarter than ours????

 

[64Spider]

On the surface only 4 turnovers sounds great but when you mostly pass the ball around near mid court until under 10 seconds there are far less chances for turnovers. And Daidson isn't exactly a pressing high energy defensive team.

 

[ur2K]

#moralvictoryalert

Yay Spiders!!! We played well, yippy! Rusty is great!

 

[64Spider]

^^^^ I think somebody sprayed Rusty with WD40 last night.

 

[fatherspider]

I know it's a season of frustration talking, but the predictable jumping off a ledge after losing a road conference game borders on irrational.

If you taped the game (and didn't delete it instantly like I did), watch it again. we played well. obviously better on offense than defense, but we played well. you'll find a play here or there that we didn't, but overall we were good. we shot well (but missed too many foul shots again). we passed well. we only had 4 turnovers. and despite what I've read here all morning we defended and rebounded pretty well. not amazing, but decent. it was a really good basketball game.

I know people will lose their minds reading that. watch it again. yeah, Ekwu banged and got some offensive boards. we only gave up 9. that's one more than we had, yet people complain we never hit the offensive glass. they had a few more defensive boards than us because we missed a few more shots and foul shots.

the switching on defense didn't kill us. yeah, Sullivan hit a couple shots over TJ. you think SDJ is shutting him down? Reigel played out of his mind but shots were contested. there were few uncontested shots. heck, we had more open looks than they did. but they hit shots. and they hit shots when pressured very late in the shot clock. Aldridge hit TOUGH shots. he's a pretty good player. and they hit all their foul shots. we did everything right down the stretch, but they didn't miss.

while I'm at it, for pete's sake enough about the 3-2 defense! lol. I know you all just want something different, but the 3-2 is nothing magical. I read 175 posts calling for it each week. I know you think that mixing it up will change things, or if one thing isn't working you try something else. I'm just saying the 3-2 won't solve anything. feel free to disagree as I know you will.

I know I'll get killed for this. Pollyanna, rose colored glasses, etc. we lost a road game. crap happens, yet the board acts like someone peed in their cornflakes. we needed to take care of our home court. last night wasn't the problem. we played pretty well.

You must be one of the suits at the end of our bench. Zone is the only D these guys can play because most are slow and keep getting mismatched and its an automatic basket.

 

[spiderman]

On the surface only 4 turnovers sounds great but when you mostly pass the ball around near mid court until under 10 seconds there are far less chances for turnovers. And Daidson isn't exactly a pressing high energy defensive team.

but we didn't do that! we moved the ball very well and went inside with it a ton. we scored before the double got there or we passed out great to really good looks after a TA/TJ double team. and we made shots. shooting was fine. offense was fine. if I was a fan of the other team, I'd have been frustrated that we couldn't stop UR other than us missing some pretty open shots.

I can't explain the problems on defense and I'm frustrated as well. but it wasn't like we were giving up easy shots. yeah some are open. everyone gives up some open looks. but a ton of times last night I felt the defense was sound but they made a play or a shot. I know it's not ideal to have TJ sometimes out on a guard, but he's still contesting a 21' shot and he's 6'9".

I agree something isn't right. I disagree with most here that think the defensive scheme is the problem, though I agree that if the players can't execute it then that's a problem. but if they can't execute it, maybe it's just that they can't execute any defense well. if you're a half step late in this defense, then you'll be a half step late in another defense. either way, you're giving up a shot. and everyone seems to make them against us.

player by player, we try but aren't great defenders. Khwan is. I thought Trey played extremely well on both ends. TJ does everything he possibly can and is underrated as a defender. love his effort. the others are just ok. and our starting line-up next year starts with TJ, SDJ and Wood, so defense isn't going to suddenly improve.

by the way ... Gibbs scores a ton because he shoot a ton. that whole team can shoot. they're not bad, and they were home. tough to win on the road, and really tough there for whatever reason.

 

[Eight Legger]

If you want to blame something other than the defense, blame FT shooting, which as usual, was bad – 63%. Davidson went 16-19, we went 14-22. Had we made a couple more, they are the ones fouling us at the end, not vice versa.

 

[32counter]

Padre-

Word of advice.Stay away from caffeinated coffee,caffeinated soft drinks,chocolate too.Stay away from sugar.An occasional Jack Daniel's on the rocks is OK though.
Measure your BP every hour and make sure it's under 140/90.Sometimes it helps to breath into a paper bag.Listen to Classical music or the sound of waves.
It's a game played by 18-22 year old kids and our coach is a thick head who should have changed up defenses way before this year. We get it.

 

[3genspider]

I know it's a season of frustration talking, but the predictable jumping off a ledge after losing a road conference game borders on irrational.

If you taped the game (and didn't delete it instantly like I did), watch it again. we played well. obviously better on offense than defense, but we played well. you'll find a play here or there that we didn't, but overall we were good. we shot well (but missed too many foul shots again). we passed well. we only had 4 turnovers. and despite what I've read here all morning we defended and rebounded pretty well. not amazing, but decent. it was a really good basketball game.

I know people will lose their minds reading that. watch it again. yeah, Ekwu banged and got some offensive boards. we only gave up 9. that's one more than we had, yet people complain we never hit the offensive glass. they had a few more defensive boards than us because we missed a few more shots and foul shots.

the switching on defense didn't kill us. yeah, Sullivan hit a couple shots over TJ. you think SDJ is shutting him down? Reigel played out of his mind but shots were contested. there were few uncontested shots. heck, we had more open looks than they did. but they hit shots. and they hit shots when pressured very late in the shot clock. Aldridge hit TOUGH shots. he's a pretty good player. and they hit all their foul shots. we did everything right down the stretch, but they didn't miss.

while I'm at it, for pete's sake enough about the 3-2 defense! lol. I know you all just want something different, but the 3-2 is nothing magical. I read 175 posts calling for it each week. I know you think that mixing it up will change things, or if one thing isn't working you try something else. I'm just saying the 3-2 won't solve anything. feel free to disagree as I know you will.

I know I'll get killed for this. Pollyanna, rose colored glasses, etc. we lost a road game. crap happens, yet the board acts like someone peed in their cornflakes. we needed to take care of our home court. last night wasn't the problem. we played pretty well.

Am I reading CM's notes for the next coach's show?

 

[mcspider]

I actually thought we played good defense in the first half. If you look at the shots Davidson was making, it was a lot of shots that were met with good D but they were just hitting. Aldridge wasn't getting away with waltzing through lane undefended like the game at the Robins Center. He was earning his points. We mixed the defenses between the regular matchup and the 3-2 zone on and off. I found myself tipping my cap to good play-making by the Davidson offense quite a bit.

The second half was a different story. We left guys wide open for 3 way too much, we made some stupid fouls that got Davidson into the bonus early, and when we did start focusing on defending the 3 it opened up the lane. All of that second half D was with our base matchup defense. I think there may have been one or two possessions when it was used in the 2nd, but I could easily be wrong there.

I don't have the answers for how to fix it. My uneducated basketball opinion would be to have several defenses to throw at an opposing team. I wouldn't have one that was so complicated that it takes forever for players to learn it. I would have a basic man to man, a few zones (3-2, 2-3, 1-3-1), a nice trapping press defense, etc. And among those defenses I would try to find the one that works best against my opponent on that night. I would still have one defense that would be the base defense to start the game. But if it is not working I would want something things to fall back on against a team that matches up well against the base D.

 

[SpiderK]

I know it's a season of frustration talking, but the predictable jumping off a ledge after losing a road conference game borders on irrational.

If you taped the game (and didn't delete it instantly like I did), watch it again. we played well. obviously better on offense than defense, but we played well. you'll find a play here or there that we didn't, but overall we were good. we shot well (but missed too many foul shots again). we passed well. we only had 4 turnovers. and despite what I've read here all morning we defended and rebounded pretty well. not amazing, but decent. it was a really good basketball game.

I know people will lose their minds reading that. watch it again. yeah, Ekwu banged and got some offensive boards. we only gave up 9. that's one more than we had, yet people complain we never hit the offensive glass. they had a few more defensive boards than us because we missed a few more shots and foul shots.

the switching on defense didn't kill us. yeah, Sullivan hit a couple shots over TJ. you think SDJ is shutting him down? Reigel played out of his mind but shots were contested. there were few uncontested shots. heck, we had more open looks than they did. but they hit shots. and they hit shots when pressured very late in the shot clock. Aldridge hit TOUGH shots. he's a pretty good player. and they hit all their foul shots. we did everything right down the stretch, but they didn't miss.

while I'm at it, for pete's sake enough about the 3-2 defense! lol. I know you all just want something different, but the 3-2 is nothing magical. I read 175 posts calling for it each week. I know you think that mixing it up will change things, or if one thing isn't working you try something else. I'm just saying the 3-2 won't solve anything. feel free to disagree as I know you will.

I know I'll get killed for this. Pollyanna, rose colored glasses, etc. we lost a road game. crap happens, yet the board acts like someone peed in their cornflakes. we needed to take care of our home court. last night wasn't the problem. we played pretty well.

This game just verified that we will lose 5 or 6 more games this year. Everyone is coming to grips with it and asking for and expecting better in the very near future.

 

[fatherspider]

but we didn't do that! we moved the ball very well and went inside with it a ton. we scored before the double got there or we passed out great to really good looks after a TA/TJ double team. and we made shots. shooting was fine. offense was fine. if I was a fan of the other team, I'd have been frustrated that we couldn't stop UR other than us missing some pretty open shots.

I can't explain the problems on defense and I'm frustrated as well. but it wasn't like we were giving up easy shots. yeah some are open. everyone gives up some open looks. but a ton of times last night I felt the defense was sound but they made a play or a shot. I know it's not ideal to have TJ sometimes out on a guard, but he's still contesting a 21' shot and he's 6'9".

I agree something isn't right. I disagree with most here that think the defensive scheme is the problem, though I agree that if the players can't execute it then that's a problem. but if they can't execute it, maybe it's just that they can't execute any defense well. if you're a half step late in this defense, then you'll be a half step late in another defense. either way, you're giving up a shot. and everyone seems to make them against us.

player by player, we try but aren't great defenders. Khwan is. I thought Trey played extremely well on both ends. TJ does everything he possibly can and is underrated as a defender. love his effort. the others are just ok. and our starting line-up next year starts with TJ, SDJ and Wood, so defense isn't going to suddenly improve.

by the way ... Gibbs scores a ton because he shoot a ton. that whole team can shoot. they're not bad, and they were home. tough to win on the road, and really tough there for whatever reason.

Tj isnt contesting a long range shot in the mismatch with a quick guard. He is getting cook 1 on 1 with a drive to the hoop and either a foul or a layup. Evidence by Rusty blowing right by him for a crucial And1 near the end. Tj didnt have a chance andthe second Rusty saw who was guarding him, he took off to the goal. And then there is the kwan and sdj guarding their bigs which would be comical if not so idiotic.

 

[fatherspider]

Padre-

Word of advice.Stay away from caffeinated coffee,caffeinated soft drinks,chocolate too.Stay away from sugar.An occasional Jack Daniel's on the rocks is OK though.
Measure your BP every hour and make sure it's under 140/90.Sometimes it helps to breath into a paper bag.Listen to Classical music or the sound of waves.
It's a game played by 18-22 year old kids and our coach is a thick head who should have changed up defenses way before this year. We get it.

Ok i will try that. Watching this game after game sucks. And you are right, its not worth whining over, the program isnt worth it. It has no aspirations to be anything other than mediocre. Time to root for Dayton or xavier, teams that strive for excellence.

 

[97spiderfan]

but it wasn't like we were giving up easy shots. yeah some are open. everyone gives up some open looks. but a ton of times last night I felt the defense was sound but they made a play or a shot. I know it's not ideal to have TJ sometimes out on a guard, but he's still contesting a 21' shot and he's 6'9".
I thought Trey played extremely well on both ends.

Really. What game were you watching? Seriously. When Davidson wasn't getting wide open looks from 3, they were taking one of our big men off the dribble and getting easy drives to the hoop. Yeah, they also made some contested shots, but when your in a rhythm from hitting wide open jumpers, other shots which are contested also fall a lot easier.

As for Trey, playing well, that is because you are grading him on a curve. Trey was 4-9 from the field, 0-2 from 3, 1-4 from the FT and grabbed 3 rebounds in 28 minutes. For Trey, that is indeed playing well.

However, if this weren't Trey Davis and this was some other 5th year senior starting 2 guard (who has been starting for 3 years), you would look at that stat line and overall effort last night, and say well they had an off night in a big game and you need more from a senior in a big game. If Darien Brothers or Gonzo played a game like that as senior, they would be getting roasted on here for having a lackluster game. Unfortunately, this is Trey, so for him this is playing "extremely well". And there in lies the problem.

But yes, Trey Davis played well, for Trey Davis.

 

[spiderman]

Tj isnt contesting a long range shot in the mismatch with a quick guard. He is getting cook 1 on 1 with a drive to the hoop and either a foul or a layup. Evidence by Rusty blowing right by him for a crucial And1 near the end. Tj didnt have a chance andthe second Rusty saw who was guarding him, he took off to the goal. And then there is the kwan and sdj guarding their bigs which would be comical if not so idiotic.

guess I should have kept the DVR but while I know we switch and sometimes it burns us, I don't remember Ekwu or Aldridge scoring on our guards last night. I'm sure they must have a little, but the bulk was against our bigs. Sullivan or Reigel definitely shot over TJ's outstretched arms at least once. yes, I remember Rusty getting by TJ on a drive. crap foul call there. didn't touch him. but we didn't help well and he did hit the shot and maybe the foul.

baskets are going to happen. you can point to a few instances like those, but even in man to man or the magical 3-2, we're going to give up baskets.

 

[spiderman]

Really. What game were you watching? Seriously. When Davidson wasn't getting wide open looks from 3, they were taking one of our big men off the dribble and getting easy drives to the hoop. Yeah, they also made some contested shots, but when your in a rhythm from hitting wide open jumpers, other shots which are contested also fall a lot easier.

As for Trey, playing well, that is because you are grading him on a curve. Trey was 4-9 from the field, 0-2 from 3, 1-4 from the FT and grabbed 3 rebounds in 28 minutes. For Trey, that is indeed playing well.

However, if this weren't Trey Davis and this was some other 5th year senior starting 2 guard (who has been starting for 3 years), you would look at that stat line and overall effort last night, and say well they had an off night in a big game and you need more from a senior in a big game. If Darien Brothers or Gonzo played a game like that as senior, they would be getting roasted on here for having a lackluster game. Unfortunately, this is Trey, so for him this is playing "extremely well". And there in lies the problem.

But yes, Trey Davis played well, for Trey Davis.

no, I don't just look at a stat line to determine if a guy played well. stats only tell part of the story. he played well.

 

[spiderman]

Really. What game were you watching? Seriously. When Davidson wasn't getting wide open looks from 3, they were taking one of our big men off the dribble and getting easy drives to the hoop. Yeah, they also made some contested shots, but when your in a rhythm from hitting wide open jumpers, other shots which are contested also fall a lot easier.

As for Trey, playing well, that is because you are grading him on a curve. Trey was 4-9 from the field, 0-2 from 3, 1-4 from the FT and grabbed 3 rebounds in 28 minutes. For Trey, that is indeed playing well.

However, if this weren't Trey Davis and this was some other 5th year senior starting 2 guard (who has been starting for 3 years), you would look at that stat line and overall effort last night, and say well they had an off night in a big game and you need more from a senior in a big game. If Darien Brothers or Gonzo played a game like that as senior, they would be getting roasted on here for having a lackluster game. Unfortunately, this is Trey, so for him this is playing "extremely well". And there in lies the problem.

But yes, Trey Davis played well, for Trey Davis.

and wide open looks from 3 and easy drives to the hoop? you're right. we were watching different games.

 

[spider fan]

fwiw - there was no jumping off the ledge after this game. I landed at the bottom after once again the Goo Moos knocked us off at home - credit to them. However I have been trying to not go totally into the mode of what it was like when I was a student - no expectations to ever win and go to the games to support the team and the social aspect. I plan to attend the final two home games however watching the Broad Street game on ESPN2 may be out of the question. My absence from in front of the TV screen will not affect the team one way or another. I hope I am totally wrong about that game but ...................................

 

[97spiderfan]

no, I don't just look at a stat line to determine if a guy played well. stats only tell part of the story. he played well.

What did he do so well then? You claim he is great on defense but does he force turnovers, lock down his man, box out and rebound well. I rarely ever see him to do that.

Trey plays off, doesn't get burnt a lot, but isn't some defensive specialist out there. He is an average defender, who might look above average out there only because most of our other players are below average defenders and because you assume he plays good defense because his offense is so spectularly poor that a 9 point night from him where he bricks a couple wide open 3's and misses 75% of his FT's is considered " a great offensive night" for him.

And as others have said, there guards took our bigs off the dribble for easy lay-ups and their two little white guards had some pretty uncontested looks from 3. We left Aldridge open for 3 several times from the corner as well. They had a couple offensive rebounds when they had to fight over the ball themselves because they had multiple players wide open rebounding the ball at the same time.

 

[PhillySpider]

Spiderman - - I have a ton of respect, but you're view and CM's are similar and when he has it, it part of the problem. There will always be good things in a game, just as there will always be bad things. Looking at the good things and dismissing the bad things lowers your standard awfully far. For us last night, the bad significantly outweighed the good. If you look at basketball as having three major components - offense, defense and rebounding, we were awful at 2 out of three. And we were our most awful at the more crucial times! 46 points in a half to anyone, anytime just shouldn't happen in college basketball no matter what, much less to a team without its 25 PPG top scorer. And it was not luck; we earned giving up 46 - - bad on ball defense, bad help, bad closeouts, bad system - - it was bad period on defense. And what happened last night is TOTALLY in line with everything we have seen all year. No new issues surfaced last night. Its the same stuff folks on here are complaining about all season using the eye test and are backed up by the stats. Yet CM (and less harmfully you) somehow think we played well or are close etc. so we should just keep chugging along and work a little harder, concentrate a little more etc. NOPE. Its broken so we better go fix it!

 

[64Spider]

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, just a little more.......awww s@@@, seasons over.

 

[spiderman]

everyone gets clean looks from 3, 97. even us, plenty of times. we hit 7 open ones, and the 10 we missed were open too. no defense shuts down everything. not our matchup zone, and certainly not a 3-2. and even "little white guards" make plays sometimes, shockingly.

the box score says we played horrible defense. I just didn't think it was bad when watching. I keep reading the same things that don't match what I watched. which guards were taking our big men off the dribble for easy layups? Reigel got by TJ that one time. stuff happens. Sullivan did get to the hole as the shot clock expired once late in the game. I was more concerned with the 3 pointer or the pull up there just like our defense was that late in the clock. but overall, their guards only had a few 2 point baskets the whole game. there wasn't some mismatch epidemic going on.

and Philly, our rebounding wasn't awful. they got a few more than us. most of that was due to our missing 8 FTs including the front end of 1 and 1's twice. and we missed more shots than them. they had 8 offensive rebounds. that wasn't a big problem this game.

I know it's frustrating, but there are two teams out there every night and one goes home a loser. I do expect our program to do better than we have been lately. but some of you act appalled to lose a conference road game. it happens. they're a decent team and they played really well. they hit tough shots. and they hit nearly every FT. we didn't. but we didn't play nearly as bad as I keep reading here.

 

[MrTbone]

Good post s-man, I hadn't considered the rebounding imbalance that occurred due to our poor FT shooting.

I think the one undeniable frustration amongst all posters is that we can't seem to play the kind of defense we've become accustomed to over the last several years. We all see it, and yes sometimes we get beat by a little bad luck when opponents hit a lot of ridiculous shots, but there is definitely a problem on D and it hasn't been adjusted for yet.

 

[Eight Legger]

Again, there is nothing wrong with losing some tough road games. But when you lose 4 conference games at home, you can't afford to lose any more road games to anyone. We're 6-7 with a 7-man rotation that includes 6 juniors and seniors. Make all the excuses you want – that's not even close to good enough, period.

 

[MrTbone]

We can individually look at certain games and rationalize that it was an ok performance, but I would agree with Eight on this one that the total body of work has been at the very least, disappointing. I think the malaise would not be so severe if we win just a few of the home games. A win over JMU, GMU, and VCU, and we're 17-8 and we would probably be relatively pleased with where we are.

 

[spiderman]

I hear you, Eight. the accumulation of losses is wearing me down too. I'm just trying to look at each game individually. in this case, I thought we played well. but we got beat.
the total number of losses shows we're not very good. the shooting percentages against us show we don't play very good defense. I do think we're playing better. I think we played better in this loss than we did in some of our wins. but we've done too much damage already with losses this season to make up for. I just hate seeing the fans here give up. But I get it.

 

[urmite]

Good post s-man, I hadn't considered the rebounding imbalance that occurred due to our poor FT shooting.

I think the one undeniable frustration amongst all posters is that we can't seem to play the kind of defense we've become accustomed to over the last several years. We all see it, and yes sometimes we get beat by a little bad luck when opponents hit a lot of ridiculous shots, but there is definitely a problem on D and it hasn't been adjusted for yet.

Slightly off topic but do all FT rebounds count in the rebounding totals shown?

 

[MrTbone]

Slightly off topic but do all FT rebounds count in the rebounding totals shown?

Yes, as long as it's a live ball shot (either of a 1 and 1, or second of a double bonus).

 

[spider fan]

What has frustrated me quite a bit is that we end up with a short rotation each year - 7 or 8 at the max. Then our opponents wear us down by running more people in and out of the game due to a deeper rotation. Rotation spells loud and clear that out of the 13 full scholarship we offer slightly more than half see much playing time. We have seen transfers after a year becoming a pattern. It is logical that we should be able to have at least a 10 man rotation. Is this more a recruiting problem or a developmental problem?

 

[MrTbone]

What has frustrated me quite a bit is that we end up with a short rotation each year - 7 or 8 at the max. Then our opponents wear us down by running more people in and out of the game due to a deeper rotation. Rotation spells loud and clear that out of the 13 full scholarship we offer slightly more than half see much playing time. We have seen transfers after a year becoming a pattern. It is logical that we should be able to have at least a 10 man rotation. Is this more a recruiting problem or a developmental problem?

I did a quick perusal of the box scores for the last 10 games we played. We only played 7 in one game (VCU), all others were 8 or 9 players. This has no adjustment for minutes played, just if someone got in.

Also of note, almost all of our opponents played 8-9 players themselves, the notable outliers were I saw 10 twice. Again, I didn't check for any adjustment on minutes played.

I do think we have a shorter bench than most but it doesn't look to be vastly different than our opponents, at least recently.

I do think what's missing might be "quality" minutes. I suspect we get fewer quality minutes out of our 8th or 9th guy, either in terms of absolute minutes played, or efficient minutes, to borrow (probably incorrectly) a fan2011 type metric.

 

[spiderman]

this has been discussed a ton, but it actually looks like a myth. most other teams don't run deeper rotations. looking at our last 8 games, we've had 7 guys get 10+ minutes in 7 of them and 8 in the UMASs game. only SLU had more than us in any of those 8 games (they had 10). Davidson, Fordham and SBU only had 6 guys get 10+ minutes.
we did only get 10+ minutes to 6 guys for a few games earlier including VCU. Deion was out.

 

[Eight Legger]

One of those 8 or 9 is a walk-on, so there's that. I agree in general that we probably don't need 12 regular contributors. That is too many. But we do need to have 8 solid players who can all contribute something positive in as many as 20 minutes a game or more. I don't think we have had that for some time now.