This Basketball Season, So Far

[SpiderK]

Respectfully disagree. I'm less interested in how each option makes me "feel" and more interested in how it advances the program.

And again, I'm still having a lot of fun with the NIT.

NCAA is where the "street cred" is for young basketball recruits. The exposure is a huge deal for recruiting. Most of the kids that are really good don't give a rat's a$$ about the academics. They all think they are future NBA players. Obviously if you don't make the NCAA the NIT is a nice consolation prize and comes with some exposure. All agree it's not the ultimate goal.

 

[wr70beh]

Put it this way, if we win the NIT (knock on wood), Mooney will probably get no offers for him to come coach another program. If Mooney made it to the NCAA a couple of times in a row and no wins, he'd get some offers. That's exposure.

 

[LKNSPIDER]

Respectfully disagree. I'm less interested in how each option makes me "feel" and more interested in how it advances the program.

Mo, I didn't ask how you would feel......I asked how the teams would feel. Spiders vs the "one and done" teams.

 

[97spiderfan]

I can not believe we are having an argument on the merits of going to the NIT vs the NCAA. Some of you have been hanging out with Kelly Conway a bit too much. #alternativefacts

Now let me go see what place I am in my NIT bracket challenge.

 

[tjtwo84]

Bob & Beck are enthusiastic supporters - love 'em. But to say that this is "one of the best seasons in Spider history" does a tremendous disservice, I think, to those who've gone before. Even in the current climate, facts are stubborn things - for the 15 years from 1984 to 1998 we played in 12 NCAA tournament games, winning 6 and making some serious history. During the 15 years since 2003, we've played in 5 NCAA games and won 2 (props to the 2011 squad). A while back someone posted that we're in danger of becoming "settlers" like in those old commercials - I hope not...

 

[I-M-UR]

Respectfully disagree. I'm less interested in how each option makes me "feel" and more interested in how it advances the program.

And again, I'm still having a lot of fun with the NIT.

I agree, NCAA exposure is more important for advancing the program. The NIT is a good back up option but that is all it is.
Frankly all but two teams (for the most part) lose their last game.

 

[I-M-UR]

I can not believe we are having an argument on the merits of going to the NIT vs the NCAA. Some of you have been hanging out with Kelly Conway a bit too much. #alternativefacts

Now let me go see what place I am in my NIT bracket challenge.

alternative facts???? really on a hypothetical question? NO BODY on this board or any other would turn down an NCAA bid to go to the NIT because we may win more games.

 

[VT_Spider]

Bob & Beck are enthusiastic supporters - love 'em. But to say that this is "one of the best seasons in Spider history" does a tremendous disservice, I think, to those who've gone before. Even in the current climate, facts are stubborn things - for the 15 years from 1984 to 1998 we played in 12 NCAA tournament games, winning 6 and making some serious history. During the 15 years since 2003, we've played in 5 NCAA games and won 2 (props to the 2011 squad). A while back someone posted that we're in danger of becoming "settlers" like in those old commercials - I hope not...

We have been settlers for a while. keith gill is a huge reason why. Perfectly okay with losing one of our best football coaches ever, perfectly fine with going not going to the NCAA tournament but having a solid season in the middle of the a10 with maybe an nit appearance. I have ZERO respect for him and whoever else is okay with these things. Get a really leader with some balls who wants to accomplish big things NOW! With will wade leaving and vcu hopefully going through an adjustment period, now is the time to rise to the top of the A10.

 

[fan2011]

Bob & Beck are enthusiastic supporters - love 'em. But to say that this is "one of the best seasons in Spider history" does a tremendous disservice, I think, to those who've gone before. Even in the current climate, facts are stubborn things - for the 15 years from 1984 to 1998 we played in 12 NCAA tournament games, winning 6 and making some serious history. During the 15 years since 2003, we've played in 5 NCAA games and won 2 (props to the 2011 squad). A while back someone posted that we're in danger of becoming "settlers" like in those old commercials - I hope not...

I think Bob and Beck were talking about TJ having one of the best individual seasons for a Spider, not the team as a whole, but for argument's sake....

We have made the NCAA tournament 9 times, so if we end up winning the NIT, or even just getting to MSG, this might be the 10th best season in Richmond basketball history. If it does end up being a top 10 season, does that qualify as one of the best?

 

[MrTbone]

I think Bob and Beck were talking about TJ having one of the best individual seasons for a Spider, not the team as a whole, but for argument's sake....

We have made the NCAA tournament 9 times, so if we end up winning the NIT, or even just getting to MSG, this might be the 10th best season in Richmond basketball history. If it does end up being a top 10 season, does that qualify as one of the best?

You could make a (debatable) argument that winning the NIT would rate above several unimpressive first round performances in the NCAA as well.

 

[fan2011]

You could make a (debatable) argument that winning the NIT would rate above several unimpressive first round performances in the NCAA as well.

Possibly, it would be interesting to see what the people on this board would rank as the top 5, and top 10 seasons of Richmond basketball.

 

[tjtwo84]

I think Bob and Beck were talking about TJ having one of the best individual seasons for a Spider, not the team as a whole, but for argument's sake....

We have made the NCAA tournament 9 times, so if we end up winning the NIT, or even just getting to MSG, this might be the 10th best season in Richmond basketball history. If it does end up being a top 10 season, does that qualify as one of the best?

I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. Or maybe an expectations difference between a 1984 and a 2011. I leave room for the possibility that these expectations may no longer be realistic, but fan is short for fanatic, so...

 

[97spiderfan]

Bob and Beck said TJ was having one of the best seasons ever by a Spider. Not that this was one of the best seasons ever for Spider basketball. That would be an embarrassing statement to make and clearly we have had many much better years, notably any NCAA year.

We have had one Top 50 win all year (Rhody).

 

[Stonewall D]

We have had one Top 50 win all year (Rhody).

So what. We have had a great conference season. The mark of good teams is to peak at the right time. We were a very young, but talented team early in the year IMHO, this is Coach Mooney's best coaching job to date.

 

[tjtwo84]

Bob and Beck said TJ was having one of the best seasons ever by a Spider. Not that this was one of the best seasons ever for Spider basketball. That would be an embarrassing statement to make and clearly we have had many much better years, notably any NCAA year.

We have had one Top 50 win all year (Rhody).

If they were just talking about TJ, then I'm wrong and they're right. And it's not what we think (or don't) about NIT vs NCAA that concerns me. From what I'm told, consistently being in the Tournament is a huge issue for potential recruits. Being up on that board on Selection Sunday pays all kinds of dividends for the future. And for overall UR applications too, btw

 

[MrTbone]

And for overall UR applications too, btw

This last part is tough to quantify. Certainly applications go up, there's data to support that, but it doesn't mean that they are better applicants (in fact, I suspect the additional applicants are at best the same). So we might appear more selective, but I don't know that it raises the academic profile meaningfully.

I do think that regular/continued NCAA success does modify the UR brand positively though. I think Admin understands this but probably doesn't strategically plan around it.

 

[spider3309]

Bob & Beck are enthusiastic supporters - love 'em. But to say that this is "one of the best seasons in Spider history" does a tremendous disservice, I think, to those who've gone before. Even in the current climate, facts are stubborn things - for the 15 years from 1984 to 1998 we played in 12 NCAA tournament games, winning 6 and making some serious history. During the 15 years since 2003, we've played in 5 NCAA games and won 2 (props to the 2011 squad). A while back someone posted that we're in danger of becoming "settlers" like in those old commercials - I hope not...

Good lord...Beck didn't say that, he clearly said TJ was having one of the best seasons in Spider history. And stats obviously back that up. He's the only player in school history to finish top finish top 10 all time in points, rebounds, and assists in a single season.

 

[tjtwo84]

This last part is tough to quantify. Certainly applications go up, there's data to support that, but it doesn't mean that they are better applicants (in fact, I suspect the additional applicants are at best the same). So we might appear more selective, but I don't know that it raises the academic profile meaningfully.

I do think that regular/continued NCAA success does modify the UR brand positively though. I think Admin understands this but probably doesn't strategically plan around it.

The central point is the importance to potential key recruits, which is indisputable. But some interesting work has been done on this sort of "Flutie Effect" in terms of overall admissions. http://www.educationdive.com/news/h...boosted-admissions-for-5-universities/234331/
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/p/po...e-of-college.pdf?c=jsas;idno=6776111.0002.108
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...students-apply-to-schools-that-break-brackets

 

[Eight Legger]

Back to the topic of this thread, so far this season we are off to a promising 22-12 start. I look forward to seeing what the rest of this season brings, as we adjust to the ebbs and and flows that it surely will bring. We can rehash this thread way down the road when the season is over.

 

[spider fan]

Back to the topic of this thread, so far this season we are off to a promising 22-12 start. I look forward to seeing what the rest of this season brings, as we adjust to the ebbs and and flows that it surely will bring. We can rehash this thread way down the road when the season is over.

Have we ever previously rehashed a subject over and over - what some call "beating a dead horse?" I think we can achieve an A+ in rehashing!

 

[3genspider]

Good lord...Beck didn't say that, he clearly said TJ was having one of the best seasons in Spider history. And stats obviously back that up. He's the only player in school history to finish top finish top 10 all time in points, rebounds, and assists in a single season.

Agree, it was clear they were speaking directly about TJ....Lets not forget, he does have the 1st, 2nd and only triple doubles ever by a spider

 

[spiderman]

in almost every one of our "great seasons", we only got to the dance because we won the conference tournament. that's not a great season. that's a great weekend.
how many at-large bids do we have in our history? 3?
almost all of our signature wins came thanks to playing in the weaker CAA and winning that tournament. we moved up to the A10 to increase our chances for at-large bids ... and we've had 2 in like 16 years. I still love the move. I like playing better games all year. but we made it A LOT harder to win an automatic bid.

 

[urmite]

in almost every one of our "great seasons", we only got to the dance because we won the conference tournament. that's not a great season. that's a great weekend.
how many at-large bids do we have in our history? 3?
almost all of our signature wins came thanks to playing in the weaker CAA and winning that tournament. we moved up to the A10 to increase our chances for at-large bids ... and we've had 2 in like 16 years. I still love the move. I like playing better games all year. but we made it A LOT harder to win an automatic bid.

True but we weren't like 1993 ECU who won the CAA tournament and finished 14-16. That is the one time I might debate NIT vs NCAA. Would you rather have a team that is expected to win games in the NIT or a team that wasn't expected to be close to any postseason but won there conference Tourney?
Seems like the former would be more indicative of a program headed in the right direction.

 

[97spiderfan]

in almost every one of our "great seasons", we only got to the dance because we won the conference tournament. that's not a great season. that's a great weekend.
how many at-large bids do we have in our history? 3?
almost all of our signature wins came thanks to playing in the weaker CAA and winning that tournament. we moved up to the A10 to increase our chances for at-large bids ... and we've had 2 in like 16 years. I still love the move. I like playing better games all year. but we made it A LOT harder to win an automatic bid.

We need to stop comparing what we did in the CAA in the 80's with what we are doing now in the A-10. It is an apples to oranges comparison. The move to the A-10 was done so we could play in a higher profile league to go to more NCAA tournaments because we don't have to depend on getting hot one weekend a year. The fact that we are not in position to be regularly contending for at large bids is a function of us not meeting that goal.

 

[spiderman]

We need to stop comparing what we did in the CAA in the 80's with what we are doing now in the A-10. It is an apples to oranges comparison. The move to the A-10 was done so we could play in a higher profile league to go to more NCAA tournaments because we don't have to depend on getting hot one weekend a year. The fact that we are not in position to be regularly contending for at large bids is a function of us not meeting that goal.

clearly the move to the higher level league didn't lead to a dramatic change in the program. just 2 at-large bids.
point is, I believe people put too much faith in what a league change would accomplish. we didn't end up in the ACC or the old Big East. that kind of move would have had a bigger impact, but it isn't happening to a school our size.

 

[Spideroldie]

Hopefully it is too early to be doing any "post-mortem" (end-of season) evaluations of how this TEAM compares to past ones. Hopefully, we win one or two more games this season, and then we can talk about this being a "top-ten" season for the team.

The part that I do not believe is debatable is that TJ is one of the all-time best players in UR history. That might be a more interesting post-season debate, if we were to recall which players would rate at the top and compare TJ to that group. A good case can probably be made for TJ being on the "best team" (as the best center) in UR history, especially given that most of our all-time greats have been guards or forwards. The bottom line is that we have a great one playing for us right now, and we need to savor every moment of TJ's continuing to play for UR.

 

[ur2K]

clearly the move to the higher level league didn't lead to a dramatic change in the program. just 2 at-large bids.
point is, I believe people put too much faith in what a league change would accomplish. we didn't end up in the ACC or the old Big East. that kind of move would have had a bigger impact, but it isn't happening to a school our size.

Our league gets at large bids, we just aren't one of the schools that get them often.

 

[SpiderK]

Hopefully it is too early to be doing any "post-mortem" (end-of season) evaluations of how this TEAM compares to past ones. Hopefully, we win one or two more games this season, and then we can talk about this being a "top-ten" season for the team.

The part that I do not believe is debatable is that TJ is one of the all-time best players in UR history. That might be a more interesting post-season debate, if we were to recall which players would rate at the top and compare TJ to that group. A good case can probably be made for TJ being on the "best team" (as the best center) in UR history, especially given that most of our all-time greats have been guards or forwards. The bottom line is that we have a great one playing for us right now, and we need to savor every moment of TJ's continuing to play for UR.

TJ is certainly one of five best UR has ever had. They should retire #10. The starting 5 for this team will prove to be one of the most talented teams we have ever had also. Hard to win any big games playing 5 vs 9 year after year.