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The timing and content of JOC article on Gill is strange

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32counter

Spider's Club
Apr 8, 2008
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Sounds like it was dictated by Gill to JOC.
5 year contract is coming up for renewal/non renewal it is presumed.

Could Gill be up against the ropes in the 15th round and behind on all judges cards?

Gill is feeling good about being a Spider-not sure the feeling is mutual.

In fifth year as UR athletic director, Keith Gill feels 'good about being a Spider'

http://www.richmond.com/sports/coll...cle_50674ff0-8471-5c75-9fa3-21976bed1668.html
 
32counter said:
Sounds like it was dictated by Gill to JOC.
5 year contract is coming up for renewal/non renewal it is presumed.

Could Gill be up against the ropes in the 15th round and behind on all judges cards?

Gill is feeling good about being a Spider-not sure the feeling is mutual.

In fifth year as UR athletic director, Keith Gill feels 'good about being a Spider'

http://www.richmond.com/sports/coll...cle_50674ff0-8471-5c75-9fa3-21976bed1668.html
Click to expand...

Yes - I'm thinking he's up against the ropes. In a big way.
 
"Hey John, got some time later this week if you want to come by and meet me in my office. Yeah, I just redecorated it and everything. You know, something that people who like where they are typically do. You should come take a look. I'll show you the pen I got for my 5 years of service while you're here!"
 
based on the people i know, don't feel he is on the ropes at all. of course, we have a new prez and he might want his own person in that position but otherwise, he is on solid ground.
 
WebSpinner said:
based on the people i know, don't feel he is on the ropes at all. of course, we have a new prez and he might want his own person in that position but otherwise, he is on solid ground.
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I guess we're talking to different people!
 
could be Pike but the only people who count are the prez and the board. if some big money guy wants him out, tell he or she it will cost them big on facilities or something. a number of people on here are upset because they don't think he is visible enough but don't feel that way at all. want the coaches out front and the ad behind the scenes. most of us had the football thing all wrong from the beginning and really not his fault, rocco was gone no matter what he did or did not do and he has no power over admissions whatsoever, can work with them, establish relationships but cannot make admission decisions.
 
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I think at a school like Richmond, the AD needs to be a real contributor to fundraising. All fundraising, but athletic fundraising especially. At bigger schools with bigger development groups, the AD can just do his job, do it well (i.e. win) and show up and shake hands when the development people need him. That is, he can be somewhat behind the scenes etc. At UR, he's got to be a real contributor and leader on fundraising. IF (and I have no information on how hot his seat might be) there is a problem for him, I would think this would be it.
 
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The timing and nature of this article definitely is odd and it almost feels like Gill asked JOC to come over to write an article for the purposes of other colleges and universities knowing about him.
 
Speaking of admissions and our "haughty totty" attitude for athletes, the question for Gill is " Are UR's standards for football players higher than Duke's???
 
WebSpinner said:
if some big money guy wants him out, tell he or she it will cost them big on facilities or something.
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tumblr_mmv3jopZmw1r2lonmo1_500.gif
 
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All of you that seem to want Gill gone, what could he have done "right" to make you satisfied
with him.
I just don't see what he's done wrong. Obviously, the NCAA doesn't think so either.
 
I think he has done terribly. The guy needs to sack up big time and show some real leadership. Grow some balls and do something about the basketball situation. Don't let alone of the best football coaches we've ever had leave for an in conference opponent. Those are just a few things he hasn't done right.
 
AnnapSpider said:
All of you that seem to want Gill gone, what could he have done "right" to make you satisfied
with him.
I just don't see what he's done wrong. Obviously, the NCAA doesn't think so either.
Click to expand...
I think that it's the appearance of doing nothing that bothers most.
 
AnnapSpider said:
All of you that seem to want Gill gone, what could he have done "right" to make you satisfied
with him.
I just don't see what he's done wrong. Obviously, the NCAA doesn't think so either.
Click to expand...
Be a loud mouth asshole and trash Rocco on the way out? Not firing a coach who has several million dollars left on his contract?

Absolutely nothing wrong. Rather then act like a petulant child like Rocco, he approached the situation professionally and made a great hire in under 24 hours behind the scenes rather then make it a public courtship. As a thankyou most this board skewered him during that timeframe calling him incompetent etc all the while he was doing his job. Ironically most people on this board skewering him at the time with posts were likely doing it from their job. LOL

I don't see why everyone thinks Jim Miller was so much better. He was a good AD that made mistakes too but didn't nearly get the level of scrutiny KG does. KG doesn't walk on water, but he's much more competent then the people give him credit for on this board.
 
After reading the posts here, it seemed obvious to me who lives in metro Richmond and who doesn't. If you live in the metro area you will know that we have a problem.
 
I seem to recall a few months ago it was pointed out Keith Gill goes to DC over the weekend, while UR is competing in athletic contests. Being AD. I think he should be present at UR athletic contests instead of drawing a UR paycheck while spending his weekends in DC.
 
FrontRoyalSpider said:
I seem to recall a few months ago it was pointed out Keith Gill goes to DC over the weekend, while UR is competing in athletic contests. Being AD. I think he should be present at UR athletic contests instead of drawing a UR paycheck while spending his weekends in DC.
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The way I wrote the last sentence it sounds like I'm the AD. That is a job I would not be qualified for nor would I want.
 
FrontRoyalSpider said:
I seem to recall a few months ago it was pointed out Keith Gill goes to DC over the weekend, while UR is competing in athletic contests. Being AD. I think he should be present at UR athletic contests instead of drawing a UR paycheck while spending his weekends in DC.
Click to expand...

as usual your recollection is wrong. He does not go to DC over the weekends. That was rumor was proven incorrect.
 
Ferrum Spider said:
Be a loud mouth asshole and trash Rocco on the way out? Not firing a coach who has several million dollars left on his contract?

Absolutely nothing wrong. Rather then act like a petulant child like Rocco, he approached the situation professionally and made a great hire in under 24 hours behind the scenes rather then make it a public courtship. As a thankyou most this board skewered him during that timeframe calling him incompetent etc all the while he was doing his job. Ironically most people on this board skewering him at the time with posts were likely doing it from their job. LOL

I don't see why everyone thinks Jim Miller was so much better. He was a good AD that made mistakes too but didn't nearly get the level of scrutiny KG does. KG doesn't walk on water, but he's much more competent then the people give him credit for on this board.
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"Made a great hire in under 24 hours." That hire was locked up by people who pay the bills well before Gill even knew what was happening. He simply signed off.

I think the biggest issue is with admissions. The AD should be the "voice" for the athletic programs. He has the ability to put his fist down and say "this kid needs to get in" and far too often Gill just defers to admissions. That is my main complaint. Overall, really nice guy, just wish he would stick his neck out for the athletes when needed.
 
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The article references losing a couple of battles to the admissions process. This is the first time it has ever been verified publicly and by the AD no less.
 
maybe none of us know how many admission battles he won because we certainly did not know the ones he lost. will say again, we have had coaches who did not complain about our admissions and a couple, ole jer and rocco, who did, even though they knew what our policies were. if we were turning away student/athlete after student/athlete, would say we have a prob. if we have lost a few, then say, probably not that big of a deal unless your coach wants everyone to get in. if so, the coach needs to move to umwcah or delaware. it is like some of you don't understand that we do make exceptions, we do, however, we don't let everyone in and we should not.
 
United_In_Red said:
"Made a great hire in under 24 hours." That hire was locked up by people who pay the bills well before Gill even knew what was happening. He simply signed off.

I think the biggest issue is with admissions. The AD should be the "voice" for the athletic programs. He has the ability to put his fist down and say "this kid needs to get in" and far too often Gill just defers to admissions. That is my main complaint. Overall, really nice guy, just wish he would stick his neck out for the athletes when needed.
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Aside from what has already been said on this board, he was nowhere to be seen or heard from during the baseball suspensions. He didn't stand up for the players affected by the NCAA's ruling.

As for the hire of Huesman, it has been reported that Walsh (a guy who was here when Gill moved in) was the man behind that hire. What exactly does Gill do if this is true? He doesn't seem like a good schmoozer, either.
 
Hard to stand up for the baseball players if what the NCAA says is true.
 
It's possible that Gill was hired with the understanding that Admissions would have the final say on things and there would be no reconsideration. If that was the case, he's in a tricky position. He can't complain about it publicly because he took the job knowing that would be the case. He can't go to them and complain privately about it for the same reason – and theoretically, he may be risking his job if he turns into a thorn in their side.

I have no idea if any of this is the case, just thinking aloud. Had he built a long, impressive list of accomplishments by now, maybe he'd have more cache with things, even if my above theory were in place from the beginning. Whether the administration wanted to hire a yes-man and Gill was that guy, or whether he simply has been trying to be the loyal solider and not rock the boat, who knows. But one of the two seems likely.
 
No school playing Div 1 sports has a policy like that described eight. Every school playing Div. 1 sports gives at least some of their coaches "special admits" (this includes Ivy's, as well as Dukes, Standfords etc.) Coaches will know the number they get and the parameters (i.e. Coach X, you get 3 people a year as long as they have at least a 2.4 gpa and a 1000 SAT). Sometimes this is "scaled" or "tiered." That is, for example, the coach can get 2 people in with 2.3 and 900 and 3 more people in with 2.6 and 1050 etc. Many schools also have coaches with "pull" with admissions that allows them to get kids in who are below the standards. Some coaches have both - - that is, they have a set number of spots they can use at their total discretion (as long as the meet the prescribed minimum) and they have "pull" that gets more kids in that are also below the normal admission standard but ultimately the decision lies with admissions.

I believe CM has both as does football at UR. The coaches know what they have. When we lose recruits to admissions - - it can be one of two things happened - - a player who the Coach intended to use one of his absolute spots on didn't make the minimum. If this happens, the recruit is DOA as far as getting in. He/she has zero chance without using one of the coaches spots. Coaches will almost always tell the recruit what the minimums he/she needs to get and do so VERY explicitly. Thus, when this happens, the kid usually doesn't feel shafted and its little harm to future recruiting etc. The second is when the coach is using pull. This tends to be much more amorphous all the way around. The coach may not know exactly what he might be able to do (how much pull does he have) and it may actually move around year to year. He either doesn't communicate with the kid what needs to be achieved or even communicates that he can/will get the kid in and then admissions denies. This is a bad situation that no one wants.

I think the issue at UR right now is Coaches are feeling they have less and less "pull" and not only is that an absolute problem but it also leaves them unable to counsel recruits without encouraging the recruit to go somewhere else. Coaches need good relationships with admissions and need to know what they can and can't get done to be effective in recruiting. Some coaches at UR are struggling with this right now.
 
good job Philly, think you are pretty spot on with your thoughts. would suggest that we are talking about a very small number of guys each year and we would probably not even know about them without social media and recruiting services. as stated earlier, the majority of our coaches have worked within the framework nicely and did not push the envelope and we have had a couple who did the opposite. don't mind the coaches going after marginal guys, guys they know might not make it but don't like it when they complain afterwards, if not successful, they knew they were playing in the danger zone. at our school, probably do not want our athletic director having final say on admissions, power 5, sure they can do that but UR, not really.
 
Philly, I don't think your comments and mine are mutually exclusive. I was just suggesting that people who are super-critical of Gill "not going to bat" for recruits with Admissions perhaps should consider that he may not really have the type of leeway to do that as they would like and that perhaps he has navigated the system that was laid out to him when hired – nothing more or less.

I've heard some complaints from people much closer to things than I am, so I get the frustration. And I'm not trying to defend or criticize Gill, because I don't know enough to do either. I'm just not sure what, exactly, Gill could be doing as athletic director when it comes to the admissions process. As you point out, it's probably more on the individual coaches to make things work.
 
Ferrum Spider said:
Be a loud mouth asshole and trash Rocco on the way out? Not firing a coach who has several million dollars left on his contract?

Absolutely nothing wrong. Rather then act like a petulant child like Rocco, he approached the situation professionally and made a great hire in under 24 hours behind the scenes rather then make it a public courtship. As a thankyou most this board skewered him during that timeframe calling him incompetent etc all the while he was doing his job. Ironically most people on this board skewering him at the time with posts were likely doing it from their job. LOL

I don't see why everyone thinks Jim Miller was so much better. He was a good AD that made mistakes too but didn't nearly get the level of scrutiny KG does. KG doesn't walk on water, but he's much more competent then the people give him credit for on this board.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Rocco's beef that the school wasn't living up to it's commitments, if so that does fall on the AD. Losing a winning head coach to a conference rival is horrible. Weren't there post about inadequate equipment, facility problems etc. CM was Miller's mistake, I don't think Gill is going to fix it. Compared to Miller or Boone I don't see or hear much about Gill's participation in the community. I guess the bigger question is how is he doing at fund raising?
 
basically it was about not getting all his academic stretches into the foal, kind of like ole jer. yes, other items but to me it was about getting guys into school that umwcah and delaware could. KG is an athletic director not a dean of admissions.
 
I have no beef with Gill. If you consider Rocco as your measuring stick, you might ask yourself how we got him from Liberty in the first place. I think Rocco is frustrated not being an FBS coach and he considers that Delaware gives him a better shot.
Regarding admissions- no one knows for sure who is accepted or refused. Sure, we can speculate, but can anyone tell us who did get accepted below standards and yet still graduated? Or vice versa? Was accepted and couldn't cut it.
 
there are a number of guys who umwcah and delaware recruit that we can not go after at all. then there are guys who don't meet our standards which the coach might go after even though he knows the odds are long. either way rocco wanted to have a level playing field with the pukes and now he does. think he will do very well up there.
 
WebSpinner said:
there are a number of guys who umwcah and delaware recruit that we can not go after at all. then there are guys who don't meet our standards which the coach might go after even though he knows the odds are long. either way rocco wanted to have a level playing field with the pukes and now he does. think he will do very well up there.
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I just like the idea they might beat each other up
 
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