The Official "We have great kids" Thread
- Thread starter MolivaManiac
- Start date
Yes. Every coach staff has one coach who is the great motivator. Which coach on the staff is the good motivator to keep players thinking strong ? I think maybe we should wake him up because he is taking a nap. It is not fair for him because he has to motivate the players and also look at the stopwatch. everyone keep smiling and the players keep smiling because this is a long season and we want to win the last game of the year at the tournament.
I think the point of the thread - at least to me - is what most UR fans turn to when our season begins to do down the tubes. And yes - only 5 games into the season, we have missed our only OOC opportunities for some "good" wins, so its not looking great for the rest of the season. Not saying our NCAA hopes are over, but we are behind the 8 ball for sure.
But - I read the title of this thread and to me it meant, well - we can't win on the court, so lets point out all the other good things about our program. Like - we have great kids. Or - we have a coach who has stayed with us for 10 years. Or - how can we expect to compete with bigger schools with lower admission requirements? We are usually an RPI top 100 team - meaning - we are in the top 1/3 of all programs in the country - not bad for such a small school with high standards. Blah blah blah.
Yes - we do have great kids. But if that is all we are going to hold our program and coach too - then his job is pretty easy. But this is college basketball and we play on the cusp of big time programs in the A10. So - winning not only goes a long way for the basketball program and the players - it also can help out the school in a multitude of ways. And frankly speaking - we are not winning. Right now - we are a good team, a respectable team - who will most likely miss out on the NCAA again this year, maybe make the NIT - and can always play in the CBI when we want. We will 18-22 games most years. But - given our soft OOC schedule this year - that just is not good enough.
But - hey - at least we have great kids. Give Mooney and staff a raise and extension because our kids graduate and none of them get arrested.
But - I read the title of this thread and to me it meant, well - we can't win on the court, so lets point out all the other good things about our program. Like - we have great kids. Or - we have a coach who has stayed with us for 10 years. Or - how can we expect to compete with bigger schools with lower admission requirements? We are usually an RPI top 100 team - meaning - we are in the top 1/3 of all programs in the country - not bad for such a small school with high standards. Blah blah blah.
Yes - we do have great kids. But if that is all we are going to hold our program and coach too - then his job is pretty easy. But this is college basketball and we play on the cusp of big time programs in the A10. So - winning not only goes a long way for the basketball program and the players - it also can help out the school in a multitude of ways. And frankly speaking - we are not winning. Right now - we are a good team, a respectable team - who will most likely miss out on the NCAA again this year, maybe make the NIT - and can always play in the CBI when we want. We will 18-22 games most years. But - given our soft OOC schedule this year - that just is not good enough.
But - hey - at least we have great kids. Give Mooney and staff a raise and extension because our kids graduate and none of them get arrested.
Most UR fans fall back on the "but we have great kids"? I think that is a complete misrepresentation. This message board is small subset of the fanbase anyway but even exclusive to this board it's not a commonly held position. Unfortunately some have a habit of applying the opinions of a few to all. btw we can have great kids & a great program.
Look I'm discouraged we came up short in these 3 OOC games too. I expect the team will try to grind it out & improve, there is still a long way to go. Talk Spider basketball, good and bad, but do it without resorting to this kind of garbage. The board imo has become more about drawing attention to oneself than it's real purpose.
Look I'm discouraged we came up short in these 3 OOC games too. I expect the team will try to grind it out & improve, there is still a long way to go. Talk Spider basketball, good and bad, but do it without resorting to this kind of garbage. The board imo has become more about drawing attention to oneself than it's real purpose.
To me, this is nothing more than a "frustration" thread. But I can see how it could be interpreted otherwise.
I liked the quotes from Davis and Coach after the game basically stating it is unacceptable to come out and play the way they did in the first half. Mooney and players both took the blame so hopefully a good learning experience. Lots of hoops left this season, just wished we saved our best OOC games till December, instead of in the beginning when things haven't jelled yet.
I liked the quotes from Davis and Coach after the game basically stating it is unacceptable to come out and play the way they did in the first half. Mooney and players both took the blame so hopefully a good learning experience. Lots of hoops left this season, just wished we saved our best OOC games till December, instead of in the beginning when things haven't jelled yet.
I personally think we can have a great season. Of course, Coach Mooney will have to look at my last post on the TJ Cline thread and do the things I suggested.
We can win basketball games - and we can be proud of our kids for being great young people, great students, and fine representatives of our University. They are fine role models, too.
We waited a long time for this season to come - so let's get behind the players and coaches as well as we can so that this will finish up as a season we are all proud of.
That having been said, please feel free to post anything that is on your mind regarding UR basketball. This is where it is appropriate to do that sort of thing. Go Spiders.
We can win basketball games - and we can be proud of our kids for being great young people, great students, and fine representatives of our University. They are fine role models, too.
We waited a long time for this season to come - so let's get behind the players and coaches as well as we can so that this will finish up as a season we are all proud of.
That having been said, please feel free to post anything that is on your mind regarding UR basketball. This is where it is appropriate to do that sort of thing. Go Spiders.
Moliva is always attempting to draw attention to himself, there are reports that he even wears a speedo to the neighborhood pool and to the beach. he is sooooo vain, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Other point of the thread - our opportunity for any sort of GOOD win for our NCAA resume has most likely passed.
We could win out the rest of our OOC games and there might not be a top 100 RPI team on there. And if there is - its just barely. Result - 10-3 record with no good wins. That does not scream NCAA at large to me.
At that rate - we probably need a top 2 finish in the A10, maybe top 3 to be a consideration for NCAA bid. Otherwise - it looks like NIT or CBI for the Spiders.
We could win out the rest of our OOC games and there might not be a top 100 RPI team on there. And if there is - its just barely. Result - 10-3 record with no good wins. That does not scream NCAA at large to me.
At that rate - we probably need a top 2 finish in the A10, maybe top 3 to be a consideration for NCAA bid. Otherwise - it looks like NIT or CBI for the Spiders.
I'm not really sure why i'm responding but you seem to be lobbing rotten tomatoes at me and i do find your posts to be insightful and respectable.
Frankly, i'm tired of the "X's and O's talk" and the "Rotations talk" and the "bench usage talk" and the "We need to rebound better talk" because we have beat them all to death and nothing ever changes. I guess i tried to find a little humor in the prevailing sentiment of a number of board posters and i guess i struck the wrong chord with you.
I realize there are a number of fans who think Mooney walks on water and has no fault and in a lot of ways. You might be one of them. I really like and respect the guy but the results just aren't showing up. Another year or two of no road wins and NCAA trips and the 'newness' of the Robins Center wearing off and i fear the season ticket holder base will start to shrink. How many years before the NCAA Unit share from the Sweet 16 trip runs out? We may have a real issue if some meaningful results don't show up by then.
But we do have great kids. I mean it.
It was only a matter of time.
And on that Mooney rant you went on - I agree. I think the seat should officially be getting warm at this point. Originally - I thought it didn't really matter because of the amount of years (think about 7-8) on his contract and amount per year (around 900K) that we would owe him if we let him go in the next year or two. That just seems like a lot of money to pay to get rid of someone. BUT - if it comes to that point, then it must be done. If we as a University and Athletic Department are willing to make those kind of deals, then we must be willing to pay to get out of them.
No NCAA this year, then next year becomes the make or break year for me. No NCAA this year and next year - time to move on.
And on that Mooney rant you went on - I agree. I think the seat should officially be getting warm at this point. Originally - I thought it didn't really matter because of the amount of years (think about 7-8) on his contract and amount per year (around 900K) that we would owe him if we let him go in the next year or two. That just seems like a lot of money to pay to get rid of someone. BUT - if it comes to that point, then it must be done. If we as a University and Athletic Department are willing to make those kind of deals, then we must be willing to pay to get out of them.
No NCAA this year, then next year becomes the make or break year for me. No NCAA this year and next year - time to move on.
Going farther off topic here, but Jim Miller probably would be taking some heat for that deal, too, were he still in the AD's chair. I suspect many on here would be ripping Gill if he had given out a similar contract.
I supported the contract for the most part at the time, but in retrospect it seems like we were reaching for stability more than for tournament berths.
I supported the contract for the most part at the time, but in retrospect it seems like we were reaching for stability more than for tournament berths.
Surprisingly we rank #56 at kenpom and that's the highest of any team with a losing record.
"We need to rebound better talk" "because we have beat them all to death and nothing ever changes"
Statistically the above is still fact MM. Currently rank #343 with regards to Offensive rebounding and #264 for Defensive rebounding.
This one deficiency I mention only cause IMO no matter how good of a team (present one or future ones) they become, this issue will hold them back from beating the better teams consistently. Just look at the 55 teams above them and their O & D bounding stats. The O number doesn't bother me nearly as much as the D one does.
Check out Princeton's rebounding numbers for say the last 10 years. Maybe coach needs to incorporate their D bounding philosophy at least? LOL!
"We need to rebound better talk" "because we have beat them all to death and nothing ever changes"
Statistically the above is still fact MM. Currently rank #343 with regards to Offensive rebounding and #264 for Defensive rebounding.
This one deficiency I mention only cause IMO no matter how good of a team (present one or future ones) they become, this issue will hold them back from beating the better teams consistently. Just look at the 55 teams above them and their O & D bounding stats. The O number doesn't bother me nearly as much as the D one does.
Check out Princeton's rebounding numbers for say the last 10 years. Maybe coach needs to incorporate their D bounding philosophy at least? LOL!
Since KA and Harp graduated, our record in true road games in the regular season is 12-31.
Four of those wins were at Fordham (2, including an OT win) and at W&M (2). The other eight were Wake, Rhody and St. Joe's when they were bad in 2011-12, ODU and JMU in 2012-13 (JMU by one point), Air Force, Northeastern and Duquesne last year.
The conclusion is obvious: Unless we are playing a BAD team on the road, we lose.
Four of those wins were at Fordham (2, including an OT win) and at W&M (2). The other eight were Wake, Rhody and St. Joe's when they were bad in 2011-12, ODU and JMU in 2012-13 (JMU by one point), Air Force, Northeastern and Duquesne last year.
The conclusion is obvious: Unless we are playing a BAD team on the road, we lose.
I agree eight legger.
I think we as a program were starving for a coach to stay with us and not leave us for the big time, that we were willing to pay up and give a long term deal. I don't like these long term deals at all and would rather us pay him 900K or any successful coach 900K a year with a rolling 5 year deal. Meaning - the deal will always be 5 years as long you keep winning. Start losing, the years begin to go down.
And I think we might have jumped the gun a little on Mooney. Remember - he only was a head coach for 1 year at Air Force and that team went 18-12 with no post-season. And his two successful UR teams - was full of players who played all 4 years or 3 years while at UR. And we had two of the best players in the A10 in Anderson and Harper. We have been unable to replicate that, or at least get guys to step and carry the load when its their turn. Maybe next year is the year, who knows - but how many times can you sat that before you start looking within for some changes?
I think we as a program were starving for a coach to stay with us and not leave us for the big time, that we were willing to pay up and give a long term deal. I don't like these long term deals at all and would rather us pay him 900K or any successful coach 900K a year with a rolling 5 year deal. Meaning - the deal will always be 5 years as long you keep winning. Start losing, the years begin to go down.
And I think we might have jumped the gun a little on Mooney. Remember - he only was a head coach for 1 year at Air Force and that team went 18-12 with no post-season. And his two successful UR teams - was full of players who played all 4 years or 3 years while at UR. And we had two of the best players in the A10 in Anderson and Harper. We have been unable to replicate that, or at least get guys to step and carry the load when its their turn. Maybe next year is the year, who knows - but how many times can you sat that before you start looking within for some changes?
Belmont last year probably the most recent win that wasn't supposed to be a win. We also beat UMass last year when they were ranked #12 or so.
Before that the VCU win at the RC, perhaps Vandy, or maybe Rutgers in 2011. Not many recent wins against teams we should have lost to.
Before that the VCU win at the RC, perhaps Vandy, or maybe Rutgers in 2011. Not many recent wins against teams we should have lost to.
I thought about Umass too but we were actually favored (Vegas) in that game. i think we were about a 5 or 6 point favorite against Belmont too.
If we are clinging onto home wins vs. a conference opponent and a mid-major program - Belmont - then that should sum it up right there.
It really depends on whether you consider Vegas, KenPom, RPI, or USAToday/AP rankings. Certainly, when we beat #12 UMass, that was a game we were not supposed to win even if Vegas says we were. I agree with Trap that it's a big reach to hang our hat on that being a "Big Win" for the program.
Same with Belmont, if I recall correctly, they had a better RPI than we did when we played them, and I think they had either beaten VCU before we played or shortly thereafter, I think we can characterize that as a win we were not likely to get at that time. But again, agree with Trap that isn't saying much if we call that a "Big Win".
Really, to me that last "Big Win" we had outside of the A10 or the NCAA wins was beating Purdue in 2010 when they were #8. That was just over 4 years ago...
Same with Belmont, if I recall correctly, they had a better RPI than we did when we played them, and I think they had either beaten VCU before we played or shortly thereafter, I think we can characterize that as a win we were not likely to get at that time. But again, agree with Trap that isn't saying much if we call that a "Big Win".
Really, to me that last "Big Win" we had outside of the A10 or the NCAA wins was beating Purdue in 2010 when they were #8. That was just over 4 years ago...
Agree Keef - I would probably go with the Purdue game as well.
If we are trying to throw home games on there - then I might have thrown the Minnesota game on there if we won. They were a good team, from the Big Ten, and a team we usually don't get at the Robins Center. Those are BIG wins in my mind on your home court. But we lost that game - so it doesn't matter.
Big home wins vs. conference opponents will happen ever year. We beat UMASS one year, VCU another, etc. Conference games are so tough, that your bound to win some games at home - but you really make the difference on the road.
If we are trying to throw home games on there - then I might have thrown the Minnesota game on there if we won. They were a good team, from the Big Ten, and a team we usually don't get at the Robins Center. Those are BIG wins in my mind on your home court. But we lost that game - so it doesn't matter.
Big home wins vs. conference opponents will happen ever year. We beat UMASS one year, VCU another, etc. Conference games are so tough, that your bound to win some games at home - but you really make the difference on the road.
"Other point of the thread" - how obtuse can you get Trap. I wish that were humor but I know it's not. Why don't you CTRL V in the recent Free Throws thread or Trey Davis thread. CTRL V rinse repeat. I swear Trap thinks he has a completely new audience on here every day or else he's developed some hot key macro program.
Anyway I'm not disputing basketball, or OOC schedule, or expectations or any of that. Honest debate is good. Call me a Mooney guy I don't care. I just don't see the point in this kind of thread title Moliva and its not the first time. In a purposeful negative and provocative way. whatever your intentions that is how it comes across and that is even with context and knowledge of some board personalities I have. imagine what a player or someone new that doesn't sees. I see a lot of rhetoric that really only serves that purpose and this was just another example. I know you're a great supporter of Richmond athletics but maybe this can be a reminder if we all just take a breath before posting. I'll break that suggestion myself but it will never be to hurt or embarrass the program publicly.
Anyway I'm not disputing basketball, or OOC schedule, or expectations or any of that. Honest debate is good. Call me a Mooney guy I don't care. I just don't see the point in this kind of thread title Moliva and its not the first time. In a purposeful negative and provocative way. whatever your intentions that is how it comes across and that is even with context and knowledge of some board personalities I have. imagine what a player or someone new that doesn't sees. I see a lot of rhetoric that really only serves that purpose and this was just another example. I know you're a great supporter of Richmond athletics but maybe this can be a reminder if we all just take a breath before posting. I'll break that suggestion myself but it will never be to hurt or embarrass the program publicly.
From everything I've seen and heard we have great 'kids' involved in Spider athletics in general and basketball specifically. I think we have one of the most athletically gifted basketball teams we have ever had. (and I go back to the Arena days) That's what so frustrating, I don't think the coaching is helping these 'kids' be all they can be and the scheme doesn't seem to be suited to helping them win games with the skills they have. And year after year nothing changes!!!???
I too am no fan of long term contracts. They seem to come back & bite you. Are we in that position now? Makes me think of the New York Yankees - Sabathia, Tex, ARod, etc. Yeah...I know they are players & not a coach, but performance matters, and the buck stops at the top. In the end, it's the coach's team.
There's a balance in retaining and rewarding versus being practical.
This post was edited on 12/1 3:25 PM by SpiderGuy
There's a balance in retaining and rewarding versus being practical.
This post was edited on 12/1 3:25 PM by SpiderGuy
The long-term contract debacle that Miller orchestrated was a huge mistake. I said it at the time, and I will say it again. We should never give that type of contract to any coach unless there is some sort of buyout clause within said contract. Since I am not privy to the contract, then perhaps there is a reasonable buyout clause available for both parties although I suspect only one of the parties would choose to exercise it if and when the situation comes up.
really like CM as our coach and as a person but if in charge would not have given such a long term deal, still remembering the 10 year deal uva gave to pete gillen. would bet that both parties have a buy out that is less than full salary times the number of years remaining but if not, both parties screwed up.
Easy GKiller - I think the point Moliva was making, and I agree with him is that on this board we tend to make excuses for our program, especially the last 3 years.
We say things like - "its been a rebuilding year", or "how can we compete with such high academic standards", or "at least we have great kids", etc. These are all points to be made and might be true, but at some point - you have to win on the court.
No one is bashing the players personally and saying - "I wish we had some bad kids". We are just making the point that we have run out of excuses.
And yes - we do have great kids. They are good students by all accounts, and seem to be good members of the community. But isn't that expected as well? I mean - that to me is like praising your co-worker for showing up to work on time every day. They are supposed to do that. And the same is true for our players and coaches.
I don't expect them to score 30 points every night or win every game. I don't expect them to all become great NBA players. Those are unrealistic expectations. I don't expect them to all be Dean's list students or do amazing or extraordinary things in the community. But expected them to be good/great kids - kids who graduate, and stay out of trouble - well, that is just expected.
We say things like - "its been a rebuilding year", or "how can we compete with such high academic standards", or "at least we have great kids", etc. These are all points to be made and might be true, but at some point - you have to win on the court.
No one is bashing the players personally and saying - "I wish we had some bad kids". We are just making the point that we have run out of excuses.
And yes - we do have great kids. They are good students by all accounts, and seem to be good members of the community. But isn't that expected as well? I mean - that to me is like praising your co-worker for showing up to work on time every day. They are supposed to do that. And the same is true for our players and coaches.
I don't expect them to score 30 points every night or win every game. I don't expect them to all become great NBA players. Those are unrealistic expectations. I don't expect them to all be Dean's list students or do amazing or extraordinary things in the community. But expected them to be good/great kids - kids who graduate, and stay out of trouble - well, that is just expected.
you think a problem of this board is that we make excuses for the program?
the mother of a player who I'm sure has read for a long time yet held her tongue until she no longer could, comes on here and voices her disappointment with how we as "fans" continously complain about every play that doesn't go right, every decision made that doesn't work, and worse about the players dedication, abilities and physical and mental toughness. and you think a problem is that we make excuses. we sit here anonymously on our asses in our leather chairs with nothing invested other than a check we write each year, and complain about what we deserve and that we've waited too long to not have glory to brag about in our offices in March. please. these coaches, kids and their families are the ones invested. I'd rather show my appreciation for their efforts, build them up a little instead of tearing them down, and enjoy the ride a bit ... even when things aren't going great. but I'm one of the pollyannas here.
I know the responses already. how we're supposedly better than most boards, which I don't think we are anymore. and I know some here think our complaining can have a positive impact on the program, because someone will read our brilliant obvservations, things they've never considered before (sarcasm), and decide to make changes that instantly turn things around. but I can't imagine how annoying this place is to a player or to the parent of a player.
this board has become such a miserable place. it's just not fun anymore. blame that on the team and coaches if you want. but we can also look at ourselves and decide if we're making things better or worse.
the mother of a player who I'm sure has read for a long time yet held her tongue until she no longer could, comes on here and voices her disappointment with how we as "fans" continously complain about every play that doesn't go right, every decision made that doesn't work, and worse about the players dedication, abilities and physical and mental toughness. and you think a problem is that we make excuses. we sit here anonymously on our asses in our leather chairs with nothing invested other than a check we write each year, and complain about what we deserve and that we've waited too long to not have glory to brag about in our offices in March. please. these coaches, kids and their families are the ones invested. I'd rather show my appreciation for their efforts, build them up a little instead of tearing them down, and enjoy the ride a bit ... even when things aren't going great. but I'm one of the pollyannas here.
I know the responses already. how we're supposedly better than most boards, which I don't think we are anymore. and I know some here think our complaining can have a positive impact on the program, because someone will read our brilliant obvservations, things they've never considered before (sarcasm), and decide to make changes that instantly turn things around. but I can't imagine how annoying this place is to a player or to the parent of a player.
this board has become such a miserable place. it's just not fun anymore. blame that on the team and coaches if you want. but we can also look at ourselves and decide if we're making things better or worse.
Spiderman - its a message board.
Your either complaining about something (when we are losing), or your praising someone or something (when we are winning) - there is no in between.
By your account - I somewhat agree, we don't deserve anything. We sit back and complain on this board from our leather chairs like you say. By that logic - we should take down the board, whats the point of it then?
For us to come on here only after wins and praise our team and coaches. Or just praise them after wins. Whats the point? We don't deserve anything like you say. But you could say that about any sports team? Listen to any sports talk radio show in Richmond. Everyone complaining about the Redskins? Why - they don't owe Redskin fans anything? No different than UR Basketball - they don't owe the fans anything.
So if everyone agrees with Spiderman - lets take down the board, stop complaining and praising and just sit in our leather chairs and get back to work.
Your either complaining about something (when we are losing), or your praising someone or something (when we are winning) - there is no in between.
By your account - I somewhat agree, we don't deserve anything. We sit back and complain on this board from our leather chairs like you say. By that logic - we should take down the board, whats the point of it then?
For us to come on here only after wins and praise our team and coaches. Or just praise them after wins. Whats the point? We don't deserve anything like you say. But you could say that about any sports team? Listen to any sports talk radio show in Richmond. Everyone complaining about the Redskins? Why - they don't owe Redskin fans anything? No different than UR Basketball - they don't owe the fans anything.
So if everyone agrees with Spiderman - lets take down the board, stop complaining and praising and just sit in our leather chairs and get back to work.
