When do the sins of the father apply? Are you from Virginina? Did your ancestors own slaves? Barack Obama's family and Joe Biden's family owned slaves. Biden continues to talk about Delaware being a slave/ border state.
T.C. Williams suit.
- Thread starter AnnapSpider
- Start date
I am from Virginia. My ancestors are from Europe. I'm simply saying not *everyone* owned slaves when it was legal. I get that it was a different time, but it's hard to just brush off owning other human beings.
If your ancestors owned slaves, should you be canceled? The answer is no, and neither should Ryland, T.C. Williams, nor Douglas Southall Freeman. Nor should Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, James Madison, or Robert E. Lee or their ancestors.
No one is "canceling" the ancestors of those people. If my ancestors owned slaves and there were buildings named for them, I honestly wouldn't care if their names were removed from those buildings. And if they want to take Jefferson and Washington's names off every building and other thing they are attached to, my life will continue along just fine and so will everyone else's. They're just names.
If a school were named for your grandfather and you found out tomorrow that he was a mass murderer, would you object to his name being taken off it, or is your position that one something is named for someone, it should never be renamed for any reason?
If a school were named for your grandfather and you found out tomorrow that he was a mass murderer, would you object to his name being taken off it, or is your position that one something is named for someone, it should never be renamed for any reason?
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Jeez, a common practice throughout the World for millennia. You would think it was invented in and confined to the Southern US. You would think slavery was strictly confined to whites owning blacks.
Far more complicated issue than commonly understood. There were many free blacks in the South. There were free blacks who owned and traded in black slaves. Native Americans were big slaveholders, even took them out West when forced to move. Robert Lumpkin, who ran the infamous Lumpkin Slave Jail in Shockoe Bottom, married a black woman and had five children. She helped run the jail and inherited the property upon his death.
Morally repugnant now. Not then. It was the way of the world. It is simplistic and arrogant to believe we are better people today for erasing the names of slaveholders as if we don't, we are condoning the practice.
I'm of the mindset that just because a lot of people were doing a certain bad thing, that doesn't mean that none of them ever stopped to consider that it was bad. I don't think we just brush it off to "Oh well, that's what everyone was doing."
Lots of people throughout history have done horrible things because they could, not because they didn't know any better.
Not that long ago, women couldn't vote. Black people couldn't use the same water fountains as white people. Gay people couldn't serve in the military. Pretty sure that plenty of people realized at the time that all of those things were wrong on multiple levels. Generations from now, no one should say, "Oh, well that was a totally different time and no one ever could have known it was wrong." No, they knew. They just decided they didn't want to change.
Lots of people throughout history have done horrible things because they could, not because they didn't know any better.
Not that long ago, women couldn't vote. Black people couldn't use the same water fountains as white people. Gay people couldn't serve in the military. Pretty sure that plenty of people realized at the time that all of those things were wrong on multiple levels. Generations from now, no one should say, "Oh, well that was a totally different time and no one ever could have known it was wrong." No, they knew. They just decided they didn't want to change.
You can't judge history through today's standards. That said, our current President is allowing slavery and human trafficking to exist today in this country by leaving the borader wide open. And George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are not just names as you suggest in an earlier post. They were great men who founded the greatest, most successful, free society man has ever known. Attitudes like yours are responsible for the social rot and overall decline this country is currently experiencing.
Point Eight is a families past is a stigma that carries on forever in today’s Woke society and wonder how much
ancestry searching is done by those screaming the loudest and pointing fingers.
Great men, yes. But not infallible. No one is. We all recognize, or should, that people are complicated. No one is entirely good or bad. Plenty of the worst people on earth also did good things. Lots of good people did bad things.
It really doesn't matter to me one way or another whether names stay attached to buildings or monuments or cities, but to some people it does. Fundamentally, enter it was called Ryland Hall or Building Q, my experience at UR would have been the same.
The anger that a lot of people have about names changing is one of comfort and familiarity. "You can't change this thing I like and am used to, because I like it and am used to it."
Of course the reality is that things are always changing. Sometimes we are in the majority and like that change, other times we're in the minority and don't like it.
As for social rot, I mean we just had a president who empowered and embraced bigotry, racism, lying and a lack of accountability for actions. He didn't create those things, but he sure helped embolden the others who subscribe to them. And yes, they're plenty of blame on the other side and in other areas too, but let's not be naive about things.
Right, and he colluded with Russia too, right EL? Not true of course, but you always do a nice job of regurgitating Democrat talking points. What is true is Biden is literally allowing human trafficking and slavery TODAY by refusing to enforce federal law at the border. It's also true that Joe Biden was great friends with Robert Byrd who was in the KKK at one point in his life. In fact, he eulogized Byrd at his funeral. Who is the person who embraces racism here?
When you start removing names and statues of historic figures, you are walking a fine line. Where does it stop? It's Confederate statues now, founding fathers later. I mean do we change the name of the city of Richmond because of Lumpkin Jail? How about Virginia or the USA because slavery was legal 170 years ago?
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Not all agree with you.
STATEMENT: U.S. Senate Report Confirms Trump Campaign Colluded With Russia, CAP’s Neera Tanden Says
www.americanprogress.org
Biden is allowing human trafficking and slavery by allowing an open border.Not all agree with you.
STATEMENT: U.S. Senate Report Confirms Trump Campaign Colluded With Russia, CAP’s Neera Tanden Says
I personally do not want to see names of buildings changed or monuments removed based solely on the person having owned slaves at a time when it was common. But I can certainly understand the argument, I never had any ancestors who were slaves and owned by another person, much like a horse or a dog, and I don't condemn anyone who feels the other way. And frankly, I think we have much more to worry about in this country than the names of buildings being changed or some monuments being removed.
Your statement "Attitudes like yours are responsible for the social rot and overall decline this country is currently experiencing" is ludicrous. Seriously? Our country is in decline because some people want some names changed? I would say our country is in decline, if indeed it is, due to the right wing extremists who believe our last presidential election was stolen. And what is the evidence? Simply the words of a pathological liar and his cult like followers. And the MAGA republicans in the house are not governing, they are more concerned with Hunter Biden and pleasing Trump than the important issues like funding Ukraine, funding our government, and passing immigration laws to help relieve the crisis on the southern border. And if you want to see the true decline of this country, vote for Trump again and see what happens if he wins.
Yea, because things are so much better under Biden. Seriously? Inflation is out of control meaning your dollar is worth less! We are no longer energy independent thanks to Biden and his environmental wakos so the price of fuel is through the roof. The world is on fire thanks to weak leadership unlike the Trump era. The border is a disaster unlike the Trump era. We have immigration laws already on the books that Biden refuses to enforce! Biden recklessly pulled out of Afghanistan causing the deaths of our service members and leaving terrorists an arsenal of military grade weapons. Putin is in Ukraine, Iran and China are embolden unlike the Trump era. I know he may send a mean tweet, but it's impossible to argue the USA and world wasn't much more profitable and peaceful with Trump in office.
No one was forced the change their name. Last I checked, TC Wiliams is still known as TC Williams, not Rufus T. Cornpone.
The names that were changed were names of buildings, not people.
Stop being ridiculous.
So nice to see Spider B supports continued military involvement in Afghanistan. Bet that's a popular view, can't believe Haley or Trump haven't brought it up.
No UR dropped the name of TC Williams School of Law, because he didn't fit the profile of a lillie white clean past.
My problem is that the sins of someone 150 years ago are imputed to people today .
Look at the John's Hopkins School of Medicine's definition of white privilege.
"males," "White people," "middle-aged people" and "able-bodied people" among other groups benefit from "privilege," which was the "Diversity Word of the Month" ...
"Privilege is an unearned benefit given to people who are in a specific social group. Privilege operates on personal, interpersonal, cultural and institutional levels, and it provides advantages and favors to members of dominant groups at the expense of members of other groups."
Who do you think was more “privileged” in this country for centuries: The white man who could own humans and land and build generational wealth, or the Black man who could be owned, couldn’t own land and couldn’t build generational wealth?
Acknowledging that reality doesn’t mean as a white man that I should feel like a bad person. I had nothing to do with it. But it’s an undeniable truth that is part of our history and needs to be taught as such.
Acknowledging that reality doesn’t mean as a white man that I should feel like a bad person. I had nothing to do with it. But it’s an undeniable truth that is part of our history and needs to be taught as such.
So, Joe Biden is one highly privilged individual. His goal is to control the institutional levers of power to create generational wealth to benefit his family and those who follow him. This began for him in the late 18th century when his family owned slaves in Maryland and Delaware. This is why he happily insists that Delaware was a border state. It continues through today, when his family and his followers continue to profit by his control over the levers of power. Every member of the Biden family feeds at the trough of government power.
looks like your premise is false, started by another Biden hater:
Fact Check: Joe Biden's great-grandfather didn't own slaves, fight for Confederacy
There is no evidence to support the claim that former VP Joe Biden's great-grandfather owned slaves or fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War.
www.usatoday.com
I'd like to know why Joe Biden didn't do more to stop the invasion of Pearl Harbor. Where was he, anyway? Probably off opening the border or selling arms to the Iranians or something. Jerk.
Gall never lets facts get in the way of his hatred for Biden. Biden must occupy 90 percent of his brain, as obsessed as he is over the man. And he'll look far and wide for any negative article about Biden.looks like your premise is false, started by another Biden hater:
Fact Check: Joe Biden's great-grandfather didn't own slaves, fight for Confederacy
There is no evidence to support the claim that former VP Joe Biden's great-grandfather owned slaves or fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War.www.usatoday.com
You never play with a full deck. People’s names were removed. Somehow that’s different?
What name would you like to remove from the Pyramids- built by slaves? Or better yet,
we should change the name of the White House; built by slaves and what a racist name ,
WHITE HOUSE.
Yes, it is different. Mr. G suggested people had been forced to change their names.
We changed the name of a building. We did not change TC Williams name.
Big difference.
Yes, let's change the name of the Pyramids to the Trapezoids.
Sorry Charlie, the sources you quote are wrong. Use an independent source and search with something besides Google. Google suppresses information it doesn't like.looks like your premise is false, started by another Biden hater:
Fact Check: Joe Biden's great-grandfather didn't own slaves, fight for Confederacy
There is no evidence to support the claim that former VP Joe Biden's great-grandfather owned slaves or fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War.www.usatoday.com
"A genealogist who has conducted a sweeping look into President Biden’s lineage says records show some of the Scranton, Pa., native’s ancestors on his father’s side owned enslaved people."
Biden ancestors owned enslaved people, genealogist says
A genealogist who has conducted a sweeping look into President Biden’s lineage says records show some of the Scranton, Pa., native’s ancestors on his father’s side owned enslaved people. Alexa…
thehill.com
And what name do you want to change to for the WHITE HOUSE? Built by slaves and with that racist name.
Maybe Hallock can help you, and convince the US and the World that White House is a racist house with a
racist name.
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I have no desire to change the name. It was named the White House because it was painted white. It wasn't named after a slaveholder with the last name of White.
I believe you missed the point. He reduced the naming issue to the absurd, yet logical, conclusion. The White House is white and has a connection to slavery. It should therefore be renamed or torn down. In the same way the reputation of Douglas Southall Freeman, a Pulizter Prize winning author and an intellectual giant, was torn down by our school.
I was talking about the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan, not supporting remaining there. You know that, but you are such a hack that you cant help yourself. Seriously, everything Biden touches goes to hell. That's just reality. If you want to leave Afghanistan, fine. But don't do it in a way that leaves terrorist an arsenal on military weapons! Make sure we get all Americans out. And don't get service members killed unnecessarily. Is that too much to ask Woody?
An impossibility. You know that. As was proven in South Vietnam, on a much, much, much larger scale.
It's not a "logical" conclusion at all.
The White House was named after a color, not a person. Colors don't own slaves. People do.
Mr. Freeman dismantled his own reputation by advocating eugenics, a racist and unscientific doctrine also adopted by the Nazis to justify their treatment of Jews, disabled people, and other minority groups.
But you already know that.
I'm starting to understand how so much of the right-wing got bamboozled by Trump and why they continue to support a guy and a party that tried to overthrow the legally elected government of the United States.
I don't see the White House analogy, I agree its not a name. Tho the connotation is there, the "White" House & being built by slaves is a fairly common joke told. Colors are more problematic than names. Black, white, brown, red, yellow, pink. Good luck. Green might be the only allowable one right now. Maybe until the aliens come for us.
My main issue remains the hypocrisy esp by the academic elite. Changing some names on a building that nobody really cares that much about anyway to make some sort of statement. yet on a macro level with the founding fathers & so much more (Yale, Penn State) the reaction is gosh we can't change those & I never really thought of that. William Penn was a Quaker. That group I thought was founded on equality for all. Still he was a well known slavetrader. Pennsylvania should be Transylvania.
My main issue remains the hypocrisy esp by the academic elite. Changing some names on a building that nobody really cares that much about anyway to make some sort of statement. yet on a macro level with the founding fathers & so much more (Yale, Penn State) the reaction is gosh we can't change those & I never really thought of that. William Penn was a Quaker. That group I thought was founded on equality for all. Still he was a well known slavetrader. Pennsylvania should be Transylvania.
Not impossible at all. Don't be such a small thinker. It just had to be managed. Clearly management is not a strength of Biden and his band of idiots.
