Why don't you tell us why all those teams should automatically be penciled in ahead of us every year?
Someone had to say it
- Thread starter whamilton19
- Start date
This has been my beef for years, we have some kind of mentality in our admin that we cannot be a basketball school and national program. Have to dream big. I guess no one told St. Mary's it can't be done. Or even Gonzaga 20 years ago.
The lambs did make the tourney 12 out of last 17 years, but they still suck. But they are a great example that it is possible to do so consistently.
No he wouldn't. You wanna play the bad losses game? We can do that with Mooney too. Here are some of the losses that came to my mind: 2017-18 season- Delaware, Jacksonville state (lost by 33 points) 2018-19: Longwood, Wyoming (only won 8 games on the year). Despite some of these terrible losses, Mooney was able to ride that tournament run in 2011. What makes you think Schmidt wouldn't cruise too. You wanna compare one bad loss year and forget about the consistency he's had with the Bonnies. He Hasn't had lower than 10 wins in conference since 2014-15 season. That's why there fans aren't mad, because he's built that program from the ground up and kept in consistent. And they are replacing their elite starting 5 lineup, people know this is a rebuilding team. This makes the argument even worse for Mooney comparing him the Schmidt. Schmidt coaches circles around Chris
forgot to mention when a Spiders team led by TJ Cline and Kendall Anthony went on the road to Oral Roberts and lost.
Yes, the Mooney above school and program guys are funny. Schmidt has his worst roster in 10 years, but will probably do OK in the A10. I don't think Mooney is terrible, I just thought we could have moved on and found someone better. The 10 year contract certainly seemed to be a demotivator for all sides.
Thats a lame excuse and self inflicted restriction the University puts on itself.
It would be like running a marathon with 1 shoe. No one made you do that, so you can't say at the end of the race - "My time was slow - BUT I only ran with 1 shoe".
We use this excuse all the time, but its the school who puts this restriction on the team and coaches and it shows (along with other decisions over the years) that athletics is not the priority at UR. They want to have a good athletic program, to show we are competitive and try to compete - but will not take extra steps to go past that.
I don't agree with either part of this argument. We have and will continue to get good players here. A few people on the message board might say we need to be realistic, and I am one of them when I hear we should be like Gonzaga talk, but I don't agree that the school doesn't want to take extra steps to win. We have great facilities, and we pay our coach well. What would you want them to do that would show they want to win more? Fire Mooney? Well, what about people like me who did not want him fired because we felt we were heading the right way with Jacob, Grant, and company? Looking at the past few years, I would say the AD was right to keep Mooney. Just my opinion, and just reading the board each day tells me the board disagrees, but it seems silly to say the school does not care about winning when we have won a lot the past 3 years.
Agree with you. Facilities are top notch and continue to believe UR has the ability to be a major net winner in the current transfer centric world of college bball.
Was overall pleased by the # of loud spiders fans especially on Monday night and hope we can continue to draw well not only at home but in events like this completed one.
The tell-tale signs will be how we respond to last year's tournament run. I hope it will remind everyone that this is the goal and something we are capable of achieving somewhat regularly, not something that we should view as a once-a-decade occurrence.
That run should raise our expectations as a program to where many of us believe they should have been all along. It should mean that we don't go into a season "expecting" to miss the NCAAs because we are young, or because we have some new players, or because of whatever other excuses we want to make. This year, we have a lot of new faces playing prominent roles, but that doesn't mean THIS team is incapable of making the tournament, or that we should just give it a pass for losing winnable games, etc.
The standards are higher now, and everyone should respond accordingly. This group of players has a chance to turn this back into a basketball program again instead of just a team.
That run should raise our expectations as a program to where many of us believe they should have been all along. It should mean that we don't go into a season "expecting" to miss the NCAAs because we are young, or because we have some new players, or because of whatever other excuses we want to make. This year, we have a lot of new faces playing prominent roles, but that doesn't mean THIS team is incapable of making the tournament, or that we should just give it a pass for losing winnable games, etc.
The standards are higher now, and everyone should respond accordingly. This group of players has a chance to turn this back into a basketball program again instead of just a team.
I think it depend on his definition of "good players".
If he means players that will succeed, then yes, we have and will have plenty.
If he means consensus Top 150 or guys who will play well with no coaching scheme, then he might be correct.
The goal of all D1 basketball teams is to make the NCAA tournament. Whether the goal is realistic is the question and thus the "expectation". As even Mooney will tell you, it is very difficult for a mid-major type school to get an "at large" bid as many things have to go the teams way in addition to winning. It depends on its OOC schedule and also depends on how all the other teams in your conference fare OOC. Sure a team has "some" control over its OOC schedule, but it is getting harder and harder to get the needed games against good P5 conference teams. It has no control on how other teams do OOC. So to me, you have to temper the "expect to get into the NCAAs" a bit in the current environment. UR is sort of in a catch-22 - the A10 is a very competitive conference, so it can't be expected to win the regular season or tournament, but the conference is not strong enough to get a bunch of quality OCC wins over the good P5 teams. Sure there are exceptions very season, but it isn't the rule.
UR's goal has to be to win the A10 regular season or tournament every year. If they win the tournament, they are obviously in the NCAAs. If they win the regular season, then they also have a good shot. Otherwise, they don't unless the perfect scenario happens (good OOC schedule AND A10 conference strength). So my position is that the talk about "at large" bids is fruitless other than a "fun" Forum chatter topic. The team needs to use the OOC to prepare itself the best it can for conference play. To me this means trying to get players as much on court time as possible and finding the best team chemistry. This can be easy to do if you have 3 and 4 year players on your team, but it much harder in today's world with the portal etc. It also means that a coach's "formula" may need to change year over year depending on the players on the team.
This year is a "development" year in that no one knew what the rotation was going to be. All the pundits were totally guessing in the preseason analysis. Of course there are some knowns and every game is one step closer to the "go to" conference lineup. The time to peak is the end of the season - every team tries to do that too.
I'll answer this. First of all as an alum, why I chose UR. Top flight academics, awesome facilities, small close knit school and student body, beautiful campus (literally it has a top 10 campus in the country), great list of major, really good faculty, low student to teacher. Also, the City of Richmond is a pretty damn cool place to go to school.
I think Richmond has a whole host of really unique attributes and advantages. Dayton is in Dayton Ohio, I'll stop there. VCU is an urban environment, large commuter school, campus is spread out, dirty in some parts, security issues with being in an urban environment. Haven't been to Davidson, but it strikes me as having inferior facilities, it is only a college, so you can't stay for grad school (big consideration for student athletes). Also haven't been to SLU, but it is a larger and not as great of academics as UR. Obviously, all of these schools have their unique attributes, but Richmond is very unique among these schools for all of the attributes that it brings to the table.
Of the 4, I think a degree from UR probably weighs the most as well. I don't know if you went to Richmond or are an alum, but you don't seem to think very highly of our school and all of its wonderful attributes, which is weird, cause you seem to be a big fan of the team or at least the coach.
Yes, we are not the beloved group. Unfortunately the Mooney above Richmond crew is a couple pegs below us and greatly outnumbered I fear. Or actually I don't fear.
Of course, no one expects us to win the regular season and/or conference tourney EVERY year, but we expect to do one of those at least more frequently than every decade (since there are 20 chances in that period of time). Our league is competitive in the way most leagues are, which is to say there are some usual suspects at the top, and then most everyone else. We pretty much know that LaSalle, Fordham, Duquesne, GW, UMass, St. Joe's, etc. are not going to challenge for either one most years (at least in the past decade or so). That leaves a handful of teams with realistic aspirations. Why not us? Especially this year, when even the favorites have come out looking suspect.
I disagree that this was a development year just because we had some new players and because the pundits said it was. What do they know? Very little. We have veteran talent here -- even our freshman guard is 20 years old! No reason the expectation shouldn't be to make the NCAAs this year. Maybe we don't get there, but that's what the team should expect. If we go into the season just trying to finish seventh or eighth, I know for sure we won't make the NCAAs.
You'd think that if there was this great majority that loves Mooney, that the message board would have a fair representation of them on here. Yet, it doesn't. Weird.
I have noticed that 97 as well. We get the Mooney era player popping in time to time and a handful of regulars, but majority not huge Mooney guys. I think Spiderman is the one pretty Mooney neutral poster on here LOL.
I do think we have a lot of long timers that went through 1,2,3 or more coaches, and have seen the success with JB and Tarrant and know it can be done at a high level. I think if Patrick matriculated to Richmond to play with dad, we may well have had an epic 4 year run and been in position to nail a big hire following his eventual departure. But if we had that big run would have elevated the program, recruiting, etc.
I do think we have a lot of long timers that went through 1,2,3 or more coaches, and have seen the success with JB and Tarrant and know it can be done at a high level. I think if Patrick matriculated to Richmond to play with dad, we may well have had an epic 4 year run and been in position to nail a big hire following his eventual departure. But if we had that big run would have elevated the program, recruiting, etc.
Message boards are always overwhelmingly negative. They just are. Also, with the way more positive people are treated on here, why would they stay around? I ask that myself a lot, but I do enjoy posting with a few guys on here.
I disagree. We can lose 31 and get in. 5-31, as long as the wins are the last 5...
Expectations are set before the season starts, so the fact that the favorites have come out looking suspect has nothing to do with it. In fact, the favorites not doing what was expected is exactly why an at-large bid was going to be a stretch IF UR managed to win all these close games.
I also did not say that a development year means trying to finish seventh or eighth. The goal doesn't change, it is to win the regular season or A10 tournament. Development simply means that the team is going to have to improve and create an identity for itself as the season progresses. There is no "expectation" pressure on the team. The guys that just finished their UR careers suffered from this outside pressure at times. This year's team has none of that. All they have is a desire to get back to the NCAAs, but not because they are "expected" to do it.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Have heard from multiple people with good connections that not all players worship at the alter of Mooney and the program as seems to be the common perception. Think there is a huge difference between our players being respectful and professional of their coach in public and truly loving his program/coaching/decision making in private.
Obviously, if players spoke out against Mooney, he wouldn't be here, but I don't think we should confuse that just because they don't rip him in public, that they don't share some of the common concerns/perspective that the fan base has noticed over the years.
Mooney is for all intents and purposes their boss. He controls their scholarships and their playing time so if you want to maintain both it is always smart politics to praise the boss.
Also fully acknowledge that some players do love Mooney and have stated publicly and unambivalently, and am not saying he is not a good man, just that he might not command the same respect from all that many think he does.
there's 13 guys on every roster. at least 8 think think the coach is wrong about something. the other 5 probably do too.
The goal of some D1 basketball teams is to play as many buy games as possible to raise money for their athletic department. Winning is not the primary concern.
Doesn't make any sense to me. A college in that situation shouldn't be in D1 at all. There are too many schools in D1 basketball today and shedding some would not hurt.
As Casey Stengel said, "The secret of successful managing is to keep five guys who hate you away from the four guys you haven't made up their minds."
Which players? I would think mostly ones that didn't play much. There will always be some players who think they deserve more playing time, and as a result, might not be ready to praise the head coach at every opportunity. Not surprising to me. It happens.
But, look at the past several years to see how much these guys love Mooney. Jacob, Nick, Nate, and Grant could have moved on, either graduated and been done, or transferred to any of numerous schools out there, including after back to back 20 loss seasons. They stayed, and stayed until they could not stay any longer. Same with Grace and Goose. So, that's 5 guys who spent 5 years with Mooney and another guy who spent 6 years here. Add Tyler from this year. He could have given the pros a shot, or transferred just about anywhere. Remember some on the board all but guaranteeing a transfer? LOL. Wrong again. Here he is back for year 4. You don't think having a tremendous amount of respect for their head coach and loving their coach and this program had anything to do with all of them staying? Sorry, but can have your connections tell you things, but I will continue to base my opinion on the many guys who stayed and what they think about their coach.
All of the players named (and others who support Mooney) are players who received much personal benefit by having Mooney as their coach. This is not to say that said players didn't earn their playing time, BUT, it shouldn't be difficult to recognize that when things are going well for an individual, they are highly likely to be happy with (and think positively about) their situation.
When the coach chooses a player and promotes said player, that personal validation sets the tone for their relationship. It is unlikely that a player who experiences massive personal gain from the coach's decision-making would think that said coach is incompetent. After all, said coach's judgement was that the chosen player was one of the best. Badmouthing the one who chose you would be badmouthing yourself. Doesn't make sense.
A coach has to really go out of their way to mess this dynamic (validation/personal gain) up. Again, I'm not saying that players who like Mooney were not good players, that is not the point. And, everyone has the right to personally like/dislike whomever they choose. I am just pointing out that multiple factors influence how an individual player perceives a coach. Cherry picking those who benefitted the most from said coach and then promoting their perspective as gospel may not be the most accurate way to assess.
Mooney is a 55/45 coach. Stats over 18 years don't lie. Not a bad coach not a great coach, a slightly better than average coach that runs a clean program to the delight of an administration looking for exactly that. I hate that I've come to accept that's who we are.
You can call it cherry picking just good players all you want, but in a time where real good players were transferring all over the place, or not using their extra covid years, we had all of these guys stay. Seems strange to say guys don't like Mooney, and then when reminded of all these unique examples of guys who obviously do, you say, well those were just the good players. What??? Also, we had 20 guys on the team last year and the chemistry was off the charts good. 20!! That chemistry, combined with the fact that all the guys came back for their extra year, was pretty remarkable and said a lot about our coach and our program.
Speaking of broken records, why do you name call? I've been on this message board for many years. I don't recall a single post where someone said that they hate Mooney. I have read countless posts saying that they like Mooney, that he is a good guy, clean, articulate, etc etc. People just don't care for his style of coaching, his in-game decisions, his continually making the same coaching mistakes over and over, and his never ending excuses after losing.
I'm tired of reading your negative posting, Ann. I'm gonna put you in time out for a while.
It's Thanksgiving, can't we all just get along?
Some former players probably hate him and some surely love him - true in sports, work, family, etc. No need to drag it out or speculate like this.
Some former players probably hate him and some surely love him - true in sports, work, family, etc. No need to drag it out or speculate like this.
The school definitely wants to be successful in athletics. Many steps have been taken as noted above. The way to get there is the issue. Mooney is clearly not the solution. The only thing be provides is player loyalty which helps us in the transfer portal era.
Those that hate him are the ones that had their lack of ability pointed out to them.
Year after year there are posters on here that sat on their h.s. basketball bench, and have only opinions, which
are negative and correspond with what I said about players that “hate” Mooney.
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