Secret Scrimmage

MrTbone

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Interesting point...I'm uncertain as how this plays out in the reg season. It would def suck for a kid to be ejected for say 2 flops. Let's hope there is some discretion with this.
My guess is if a guy flops enough to draw two technicals, he deserves the ejection. I doubt that two legit charges would result in two flop calls.
 

SpiderDad75

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My guess is if a guy flops enough to draw two technicals, he deserves the ejection. I doubt that two legit charges would result in two flop calls.
I think I read last night it would take 3 flops as techs to be ejected…I’ll see if I can find it.
 
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If Bigelow is dropping 19 a game, he probably isn't coming off the bench all season. Still think our most natural starting line up is Nelson, Goose, Tyler, Bigelow, and Quinn. Grace can get his minutes backing up both. This allows everyone to play their natural position.

Feel that Mooney might be doing one of his I'm gonna try to pound this square peg into round hole routines to start the season, aka, like starting Nick Sherod last year as our starting 2 guard on a team that was begging for a high quality defensive player in the starting line up. Starting Quinn and Grace together is beginning to have those same vibes.
"Feel that Mooney might be doing one of his I'm gonna try to pound this square peg into round hole routines to start the season, aka, like starting Nick Sherod last year as our starting 2 guard on a team that was begging for a high quality defensive player in the starting line up."

he started him for 2 games, then moved on. If you remember, Goose was hurt at the beginning of the year.... yes sadly Nick was a shell of his former self, By the way, you are 100% wrong on Grace....
 
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spider23

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It's pretty hard to tell what is going on in these scrimmages, as we see JOC is just touching on main stat lines. Would be nice to hear if Grace played well, or Noyes got some time and posterized someone, etc.

I think it is going to be a nice option with Bigelow to allow us to adapt to, or conversely make the other team adapt to our lineups. I do feel with the way the game is going, a Grace/Quinn frontcourt seems to feel a little ill suited to chase a four out line up. I do think as sman points out - Grace will likely slide right over for Quinn, and we will bring Bigs in pretty quick if he is not starting.
 

LongTimeSpiderFan

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"Feel that Mooney might be doing one of his I'm gonna try to pound this square peg into round hole routines to start the season, aka, like starting Nick Sherod last year as our starting 2 guard on a team that was begging for a high quality defensive player in the starting line up."

he started him for 2 games, then moved on. If you remember, Goose was hurt at the beginning of the year.... yes sadly Nick was a shell of his former self, By the way, you are 100% wrong on Grace....
100% wrong is quite definitive if I remember my schooling. I think Grace should continue to be the backup 5 for the majority of his minutes...a little at the four for spurts. And my hope is that Quinn has Golden-like minutes at a minimum. Additionally, I hope Grace plays about the same number minutes (or less! ) than last year as I am thinking a Top 4 team in the A10 will be nearly impossible with Grace getting starters minutes. MG should still be a reserve on a tournament quality team...he'll always have his heroic memories of last year to tell his kids.
 

SpiderTrap

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Interesting point...I'm uncertain as how this plays out in the reg season. It would def suck for a kid to be ejected for say 2 flops. Let's hope there is some discretion with this.
I doubt the refs call it. Hard enough to call block/charge let alone a true flop that warrants a technical. If there is a contact, even just the slightest, and the guy falls - is that a flop? Does the ref have to say to himself - yes, there was contact - but not enough to make the defender fall? Or is a flop simply when you fall with absolutely NO contact at all? I think that is the only way to make a clear line on this - if no contact and you fall - yes, flop.

But who is a ref to say what force makes Burton fall on a charge vs Nelson? Too difficult and if I were a ref - I would stay away from it.
 

SpiderDad75

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I doubt the refs call it. Hard enough to call block/charge let alone a true flop that warrants a technical. If there is a contact, even just the slightest, and the guy falls - is that a flop? Does the ref have to say to himself - yes, there was contact - but not enough to make the defender fall? Or is a flop simply when you fall with absolutely NO contact at all? I think that is the only way to make a clear line on this - if no contact and you fall - yes, flop.

But who is a ref to say what force makes Burton fall on a charge vs Nelson? Too difficult and if I were a ref - I would stay away from it.
This is a point of emphasis this season and will probably called tight probably through December. I've heard a ref told a player that he was "too big" to fall like that and he called it...Some mess for sure but I'm sure we see it early bc it's a POE.
 

SFspidur

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Here are the basketball rules for this season...eliminating the flopping warning is the only major change this year. Goes straight to a Class B tech. Ejection occurs after three Class B techs or a combination of one Class A and two Class B techs.

Eliminating flopping from the game (with an exclamation mark - "enforce the rules!") is one of the major concerns for this season.

"Faking being fouled (flopping) is an unsporting act which occurs when a player (offensive or defensive) attempts to influence an official's judgment by creating an opinion that a foul has been committed when there has been minimal contact. It often occurs on block/charge plays or attempted tries for goal or when using any other tactics such as a "head bob" which might lead an official to believe that a foul has been committed."

 
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spiderman

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"Faking being fouled (flopping) is an unsporting act which occurs when a player (offensive or defensive) attempts to influence an official's judgment by creating an opinion that a foul has been committed when there has been minimal contact. It often occurs on block/charge plays or attempted tries for goal or when using any other tactics such as a "head bob" which might lead an official to believe that a foul has been committed."

thanks, SF. I was just going to say if a flop is a tech, then the guards who exaggerate a foul by going into convulsions when bumped should be too.

glad they added that.
 

SpiderDad75

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It's pretty hard to tell what is going on in these scrimmages, as we see JOC is just touching on main stat lines. Would be nice to hear if Grace played well, or Noyes got some time and posterized someone, etc.

I think it is going to be a nice option with Bigelow to allow us to adapt to, or conversely make the other team adapt to our lineups. I do feel with the way the game is going, a Grace/Quinn frontcourt seems to feel a little ill suited to chase a four out line up. I do think as sman points out - Grace will likely slide right over for Quinn, and we will bring Bigs in pretty quick if he is not starting.
Grace has been solid...doing Grace things.
 
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SpiderTrap

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You will probably see an increase in coaching technicals as well as they argue and yell when one of their players receives this ridiculous flopping technical.

I am not saying flopping is not an issue, I think it is - but I didn't think it was bad enough to make it a point of emphasis. And each ref is different. Easiest way to eliminate the flop is almost like an advantage rule from soccer. If a player drives to the hoop and you flop and fall in front of them but it doesn't effect the path or route of offensive player - let them play on with a player on the ground. Offense should have advantage at that point. If the flopping players negative effects offensive player movement - then call a common foul. Sooner or later - defense will see - it doesn't pay to flop. Offense either gets an advantage or we get a foul.
 

spiderman

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players flop because they get rewarded for it with charge calls.
I know reffing isn't easy, but they should never have given offensive fouls when the affect of the contact is exaggerated.
 

spiderman

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also ... part of the problem has been that you never get the charge call unless you as a defender hit the ground. they've forced defenders to fall. fix that. any time an offensive player instigates contact and forcibly displaces a defender in good defensive position it's an offensive foul.
 

97spiderfan

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"Feel that Mooney might be doing one of his I'm gonna try to pound this square peg into round hole routines to start the season, aka, like starting Nick Sherod last year as our starting 2 guard on a team that was begging for a high quality defensive player in the starting line up."

he started him for 2 games, then moved on. If you remember, Goose was hurt at the beginning of the year.... yes sadly Nick was a shell of his former self, By the way, you are 100% wrong on Grace....
Barring injury to Quinn, Bigelow, Burton, I would place a nice wager that Grace isn't going to be our starter at the 4 all year. Why? He isn't a 4, he is a 5. This has nothing to do about Grace and what I think of his abilities, it is more of the fact that he will be playing a position that doesn't optimize his abilities.

Additionally, by starting Grace at the 4, it means he won't be backing up Quinn at the 5. Quinn is coming off an injury and we know how Mooney likes to get his big guys lots of rest, so when Quinn does get rested, who do we slide into his role. Should be Grace, but Grace will need rest to and starting them together creates this imbalance.

Mooney will see this play out early on and if Bigelow can consistently ball like he did in the JMU scrimmage, this will be a no brainer switch to make, much like Sherod not starting at the 2 was last year.
 

spiderman

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the key for Grace this season is his 3 point shooting. he needs to get off to a good start.

Grace does some good things, but like 97 I don't think he compares favorably at the 4 to what we think we have in Bigelow. Zay will likely be a better ball handler, rebounder and perimeter defender. so if Grace shoots well early then he'll get plenty of time at the 4 and 5. if not it could be a quick pull and we might not look back from Bigelow.
 

SpiderTrap

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also ... part of the problem has been that you never get the charge call unless you as a defender hit the ground. they've forced defenders to fall. fix that. any time an offensive player instigates contact and forcibly displaces a defender in good defensive position it's an offensive foul.
Agreed - if you as offensive player run into me and just knock me back a foot or two or just knock me off balance enough to gain an advantage - that is a charge, even if defender doesn't fall. But the game - especially at highest level of NBA - has become so athletic and physical, that if you don't fall - refs are basically saying play on.
 
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Barring injury to Quinn, Bigelow, Burton, I would place a nice wager that Grace isn't going to be our starter at the 4 all year. Why? He isn't a 4, he is a 5. This has nothing to do about Grace and what I think of his abilities, it is more of the fact that he will be playing a position that doesn't optimize his abilities.

Additionally, by starting Grace at the 4, it means he won't be backing up Quinn at the 5. Quinn is coming off an injury and we know how Mooney likes to get his big guys lots of rest, so when Quinn does get rested, who do we slide into his role. Should be Grace, but Grace will need rest to and starting them together creates this imbalance.

Mooney will see this play out early on and if Bigelow can consistently ball like he did in the JMU scrimmage, this will be a no brainer switch to make, much like Sherod not starting at the 2 was last year.
I think you’re wrong. Grace is well positioned as a 4. He’s got the size and the shot to make him a tough match-up. Think you guys are going to be surprised by what he brings this year.
 
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the key for Grace this season is his 3 point shooting. he needs to get off to a good start.

Grace does some good things, but like 97 I don't think he compares favorably at the 4 to what we think we have in Bigelow. Zay will likely be a better ball handler, rebounder and perimeter defender. so if Grace shoots well early then he'll get plenty of time at the 4 and 5. if not it could be a quick pull and we might not look back from Bigelow.
Hard to disagree with this. If Grace doesn’t shoot well, then his playing time will be impacted accordingly. I think he has a dangerous shot and we haven’t seen his potential yet.
It’s crazy to me that people think Grace will be in foul trouble all year based on prior seasons. He was clearly told in his few minutes not to give up easy baskets and foul the team’s worst free throw shooter.
 

gcarter52

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Hard to disagree with this. If Grace doesn’t shoot well, then his playing time will be impacted accordingly. I think he has a dangerous shot and we haven’t seen his potential yet.
It’s crazy to me that people think Grace will be in foul trouble all year based on prior seasons. He was clearly told in his few minutes not to give up easy baskets and foul the team’s worst free throw shooter.
I have not heard anything about Connor Crabtree, what’s the deal with him?
 

spider23

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also ... part of the problem has been that you never get the charge call unless you as a defender hit the ground. they've forced defenders to fall. fix that. any time an offensive player instigates contact and forcibly displaces a defender in good defensive position it's an offensive foul.
In strong agreement with this. Its kind of ref created issue. A player can lower his shoulder into the defense, and unless the defense falls it is very rarely called an offensive. Bad refs are inconsistent too. Call the game the way you are going to call it throughout, and let the players know if they are flopping.
 
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VT4700

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Barring injury to Quinn, Bigelow, Burton, I would place a nice wager that Grace isn't going to be our starter at the 4 all year. Why? He isn't a 4, he is a 5. This has nothing to do about Grace and what I think of his abilities, it is more of the fact that he will be playing a position that doesn't optimize his abilities.

Additionally, by starting Grace at the 4, it means he won't be backing up Quinn at the 5. Quinn is coming off an injury and we know how Mooney likes to get his big guys lots of rest, so when Quinn does get rested, who do we slide into his role. Should be Grace, but Grace will need rest to and starting them together creates this imbalance.

Mooney will see this play out early on and if Bigelow can consistently ball like he did in the JMU scrimmage, this will be a no brainer switch to make, much like Sherod not starting at the 2 was last year.
If Grace starts with Quinn, he can still back him up. Why can't Bigelow come in at the 16 minute mark or so for either Grace or Quinn? We could see who has it going early, and leave them in and rest the other one. Then, whoever came out can come in around the 12 minute mark for the other big who hasn't been out yet. So, at the 8 minutes mark, Grace, Quinn, and Bigelow could each have around 8 minutes with both Quinn and Grace out there together, and with only one of them out there. Then, you can ride the hot lineup most of the rest of the half. The more options the better. I don't think it makes sense to limit us to having Grace only backing up Quinn.

But, I really don't think it matters much who starts. Awhile back, I said I could see a lineup with Bigelow starting. And, I think we would be more than fine with that. But, I think these guys will get solid minutes whether they start or not, and in some games we will see reserves getting more minutes than starters.
 
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SpiderDad75

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If Grace starts with Quinn, he can still back him up. Why can't Bigelow come in at the 16 minute mark or so for either Grace or Quinn? We could see who has it going early, and leave them in and rest the other one. Then, whoever came out can come in around the 12 minute mark for the other big who hasn't been out yet. So, at the 8 minutes mark, Grace, Quinn, and Bigelow could each have around 8 minutes with both Quinn and Grace out there together, and with only one of them out there. Then, you can ride the hot lineup most of the rest of the half. The more options the better. I don't think it makes sense to limit us to having Grace only backing up Quinn.

But, I really don't think it matters much who starts. Awhile back, I said I could see a lineup with Bigelow starting. And, I think we would be more than fine with that. But, I think these guys will get solid minutes whether they start or not, and in some games we will see reserves getting more minutes than starters.
I think this is what we will see esp early. It makes sense too. We have a lot interchangeable parts, well maybe not a ton but def enough that we can utilize. I also agree that it doesn't matter who starts as we will be solid at every position and guys have really been competing and going all out when they get their chance.
 
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Barring injury to Quinn, Bigelow, Burton, I would place a nice wager that Grace isn't going to be our starter at the 4 all year. Why? He isn't a 4, he is a 5. This has nothing to do about Grace and what I think of his abilities, it is more of the fact that he will be playing a position that doesn't optimize his abilities.

Additionally, by starting Grace at the 4, it means he won't be backing up Quinn at the 5. Quinn is coming off an injury and we know how Mooney likes to get his big guys lots of rest, so when Quinn does get rested, who do we slide into his role. Should be Grace, but Grace will need rest to and starting them together creates this imbalance.

Mooney will see this play out early on and if Bigelow can consistently ball like he did in the JMU scrimmage, this will be a no brainer switch to make, much like Sherod not starting at the 2 was last year.
you are justifying the decision after watching Nick--sadly not the Nick of old--play a full season, he earned the chance to start, it was obvious After 2 games (that Nick wasn't just rusty, the injuries robbed him of more) and then hyper quick Hofstra on the schedule, he moved out, Isiah moved in. That worked until the opposition realized that isiah couldn't score and Goose got healthy.
 

SFspidur

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JMU really getting after it in their first Sun Belt season, kicking things off against D-III University of Valley Forge. Dukes up 72–11 at the half.
 
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GKiller

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JMU really getting after it in their first Sun Belt season, kicking things off against D-III University of Valley Forge. Dukes up 72–11 at the half.

They still have another 2 non D1 teams left on their ooc schedule after Valley Forge
 

spider23

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Curious where you got that he has the it factor? High school games?
Last night you could see the it factor in full effect. Can get where he needs to, makes super passes, finish in traffic, and just plays with an edge and love of the game. See that he has nice pull up jumper and has some nice finishes off the glass driving. Have not seen the tear drop floater really yet, but like Gilly has the ability to finish some tough layups with regularity.
 
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Last night you could see the it factor in full effect. Can get where he needs to, makes super passes, finish in traffic, and just plays with an edge and love of the game. See that he has nice pull up jumper and has some nice finishes off the glass driving. Have not seen the tear drop floater really yet, but like Gilly has the ability to finish some tough layups with regularity.
Agreed. Saw signs of it last night. Some guys just know how to score and finish around the rim. Reminded me a bit of KA, more than gilyard last night.
 

spider23

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Looking at our scrimmages, both JMU and Tech came out playing great in early season. VaTech with a great hire, so far he is separating himself and looks to potentially be in the very top tier of coaches. JMU averaging 95 points, albeit against some lessor competition, but just waxed a decent south Dakota state team.
 
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urmite

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Looking at our scrimmages, both JMU and Tech came out playing great in early season. VaTech with a great hire, so far he is separating himself and looks to potentially be in the very top tier of coaches. JMU averaging 95 points, albeit against some lessor competition, but just waxed a decent south Dakota state team.
Virginia Tech lost at Charleston, so how good can a team be that does that? 😉

I believe JMU is expected to win the Sun Belt, and only expected losses are to UNC & UVA…
 
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GKiller

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Virginia Tech lost at Charleston, so how good can a team be that does that? 😉

I believe JMU is expected to win the Sun Belt, and only expected losses are to UNC & UVA…

On cue jmu just lost to Valpo today. The Crusaders. Or whatever weird new name they have now.
 
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