Schneider transferring
- Thread starter spiders13
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Interesting statistic. Cite? Does that include one-and-dones? Drop-outs? Dismissals?
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/tracking-transfer-division-i-men-s-basketball
That 40% number is just how many have transferred from their initial school by the end of their sophomore year. That doesn't even count traditional junior or senior transfers, or grad transfers.
I would be curious to see the impact of winning records, contending for championships, coaching changes, and academics on these numbers. Does a school with a winning tradition, or championship contender, have more, less, or the same number of transfers? Do the transfers skyrocket with a coaching change impacting the totals? Are academics an issue with a statistically significant number of transfers?
There are basically three categories of transfers:
1) Good players stuck behind better players on winning teams who leave to play more somewhere else.
2) Good players on bad teams who leave to play on winning teams.
3) Bad players who transfer down a level to get playing time.
We mostly have #3, and that's a problem.
1) Good players stuck behind better players on winning teams who leave to play more somewhere else.
2) Good players on bad teams who leave to play on winning teams.
3) Bad players who transfer down a level to get playing time.
We mostly have #3, and that's a problem.
Well just from a basketball sense I think it pretty much does. I'm not considering guys who had academic or behavioral issues. I guess you could add good players on good lower-level teams who transfer to play on better teams, but that's sort of the same general category as #2. What else am I missing?
Good points. I don't think any of those have really been in play for the guys who have transferred out of our program in the past five years or so, unless anyone wants to believe the BS about Khwan wanting to be closer to home.
It's a problem for many programs. #3 is the main factor in over half the transfers. The other half are going to less competitive D1 programs. Similar situation throughout NCAA men's BB program, so no just a UR issue. The study - which gospidersgo supplied the link to - states:
46% of the transfers went to another Division I school (often to a less competitive program), while the others typically left for Division II, NAIA or 2-year colleges (Figure 2).
I posted earlier that I can’t think of anyone that has transferred and gone on to
bigger and better roles.
EL’s #3 is very valid.
bigger and better roles.
EL’s #3 is very valid.
Fore and Ododa went to better programs in hopes of playing bigger roles. It didn’t work out for either.
I think they were talking about transfers that are not grad transfers like ANO and Fore. We're talking about the Diekvoss, Piotrowsky, Smithen types.
I don't mind the grad transfers, as they obtained a degree from the college they committed to while playing basketball. In the purest sense, they should have an opportunity to play at a university where they can take coursework towards a Master's for one year. Of course in reality it doesn't work out that way. I'd like to see some stats that show how many of these grad transfers in all of D1 A) go on to play professional, or B) end up with a Master's orbsome graduate degree.
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http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/tracking-division-i-graduate-transfers
From 4 years ago but I'd imagine the percentages wouldn't have changed too much. Looks like for men's basketball less than 1/3 of grad transfers have a graduate degree within 2 years of enrolling.
From 4 years ago but I'd imagine the percentages wouldn't have changed too much. Looks like for men's basketball less than 1/3 of grad transfers have a graduate degree within 2 years of enrolling.
I think it is working out very well for Khwan. His role isn't bigger but it is significant at Louisville and he gets to play for a big time school and gets a legitimate shot of playing in the NCAA this year. Ododa was a complete flop at Pitt.
transferring has gotten out of control at the high school level too.
in the state I live, one of the top juniors is at his 3rd high school and 2nd AAU team. there's talk he may move to another AAU team this spring. he's 6'7" and really good, but as a college coach do you touch this kid? what are the odds he stays if you don't play him freshman year?
in the state I live, one of the top juniors is at his 3rd high school and 2nd AAU team. there's talk he may move to another AAU team this spring. he's 6'7" and really good, but as a college coach do you touch this kid? what are the odds he stays if you don't play him freshman year?
Transferring is like most things in college basketball - when your winning, its not a big deal. When your losing, its a bad sign. No one cares when a guy leaves Kentucky or Duke because they are not getting minutes. but when your team is 6-7 and staring down a second straight losing season - its not good. Not to mention, two of our better players and 2 players who would have made an impact this year (Fore and Buckingham) have already transferred.
Success after they transfer is hard to measure. Because that is different for each player. Some guys might be looking for a place that will let them play minutes. Other guys might be chasing an NCAA tourney appearance, even if they don't play as much at that next school. Others might be happy to just being closer to home. But I think it is safe to say - Fore is having success, and they are looking like an NCAA team. Buckingham we will have to see - and it will be interesting to see where Schneider ends up. I am always intrigued as to whether a guy transfers up or down or stays the same. I would say Fore transferred up. Buckingham - normally I would say he transferred down, but in our current state - he probably made a lateral transfer. In the past - I feel most of our guys have transferred down, which is troubling because that makes me wonder were they A10 talent level to begin with?
Success after they transfer is hard to measure. Because that is different for each player. Some guys might be looking for a place that will let them play minutes. Other guys might be chasing an NCAA tourney appearance, even if they don't play as much at that next school. Others might be happy to just being closer to home. But I think it is safe to say - Fore is having success, and they are looking like an NCAA team. Buckingham we will have to see - and it will be interesting to see where Schneider ends up. I am always intrigued as to whether a guy transfers up or down or stays the same. I would say Fore transferred up. Buckingham - normally I would say he transferred down, but in our current state - he probably made a lateral transfer. In the past - I feel most of our guys have transferred down, which is troubling because that makes me wonder were they A10 talent level to begin with?
If we go back to EL's big three reasons:
1.) Kyle Wiltjer is the classic example, he got some early sporadic PT at Kentucky, then went to Gonzaga to be a starter. We don't fit that category.
2.) You could argue that ANO and Kwan fit this category, with somewhat opposite results.
3.) This represents a vast majority of our transfers, and without too many exceptions, it represents a failure of our recruiting efforts. Seems like most of our transfers out end up at lesser D1 programs (Smithen, Big Luke) or at the DII or DIII level (Diekvoss, Singleton).
Would not be surprised to see Verbinskis be the next one out, another CM miss who ends up at a DII or DIII school. I always felt like he was another recruiting "reach" from the get-go.
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
1.) Kyle Wiltjer is the classic example, he got some early sporadic PT at Kentucky, then went to Gonzaga to be a starter. We don't fit that category.
2.) You could argue that ANO and Kwan fit this category, with somewhat opposite results.
3.) This represents a vast majority of our transfers, and without too many exceptions, it represents a failure of our recruiting efforts. Seems like most of our transfers out end up at lesser D1 programs (Smithen, Big Luke) or at the DII or DIII level (Diekvoss, Singleton).
Would not be surprised to see Verbinskis be the next one out, another CM miss who ends up at a DII or DIII school. I always felt like he was another recruiting "reach" from the get-go.
#NoMoreMooneyTruthing
Wish Bryce the best. Hope he finds the right fit for him.
As for Richmond, I think this is a positive. Yes,it would’ve been better had we hit on him being a major contributor, but it was clear this year that he wasn’t ready now and didn’t project in the future.
Instead, he transfers early, giving us time to find a replacement. And more importantly, we can try to balance our classes a little. We were so heavy in the sophomore and freshman classes this year (especially with Nick redesignating) I think it’ll benefit us to spread out players to next year’s freshman class, instead of only having the current 1 incoming freshmen.
Moral of the story is we lose a deep bench player for the next 3 years and get a shot at replacing him with a more impactful player. Hopefully we take advantage of the opportunity.
As for Richmond, I think this is a positive. Yes,it would’ve been better had we hit on him being a major contributor, but it was clear this year that he wasn’t ready now and didn’t project in the future.
Instead, he transfers early, giving us time to find a replacement. And more importantly, we can try to balance our classes a little. We were so heavy in the sophomore and freshman classes this year (especially with Nick redesignating) I think it’ll benefit us to spread out players to next year’s freshman class, instead of only having the current 1 incoming freshmen.
Moral of the story is we lose a deep bench player for the next 3 years and get a shot at replacing him with a more impactful player. Hopefully we take advantage of the opportunity.
Although I am sad to see Bryce go, I'm glad for the roster flexibility it gives the team to balance classes with another frosh, or to allow for a grad transfer or other transfer.
For those looking for a new coach, also allows for a potential "follow" transfer to join the new coach.
I feel like if guys 10-12 on the depth chart transfer off a team, that's not necessarily a bad result.
For those looking for a new coach, also allows for a potential "follow" transfer to join the new coach.
I feel like if guys 10-12 on the depth chart transfer off a team, that's not necessarily a bad result.
Agreed, from a program perspective we want guys like Bryce to transfer. However, we have had far too many Bryce's and the impact of all of those Bryce's over the years is a large reason we are in the state that we are in.
I had a good friend who knows his basketball hoops and went and saw Bryce at an AAU event after he had committed to UR and was adamant after seeing that Bryce was not good enough to play in the A-10. How he could see this so obviously while our coaching staff whose job it to evaluate high school talent can't speaks volumes.
To be fair, it’s easy for someone to watch 1 game, proclaim that a player isn’t good enough, having a 50/50 shot they’re right, with no repercussions if they’re wrong. I’d be more impressed if he had a history of appraising recruits accurately.
While I don’t think the coaches have done a great job recruiting (though the past 3 years I think they’ve done pretty well), they have found some pretty good under recruited talent over the years. I think their bigger weakness is being able to pull in more highly recruited players.
Nova Southeastern is a fine private school with an array of curriculum at the undergraduate and graduate level.Wayne Huizinga was the chief benefactor for its so named business School.The Miami Dolphins had their preseason facility there while Huizinga was its owner.An impressive place.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Southeastern_University#/media/File:Dolphins_training_camp.jpg
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Southeastern_University#/media/File:Dolphins_training_camp.jpg
Disagree, we routinely miss big time on players we do get. We also have completely given up on going after more highly recruited players. Like our message to our players, Mooney is merely "competing" now in the recruiting game. Not winning, just competing.
This is VERY true. I know of many similar stories. One Top 100 ish kid played freshman year at one school, played first semester Soph year at another ( an elite level team with 12 D1 kids ) and transferred for 2nd semester. And I KNOW his parents are shopping him around for next year already!
But one part of it isn't true - - - college coaches are still all over these kind of kids. I am sure there are some that opt not to, but Coaches by and large figure they can deal with that issue when and if the get the kid and if they aren't able to deal with it successfully, it just gives them another scholly the next year to work with. They are much more worried about ending up with an under-talented kid who stays 4 years without really contributing than they are taking a talented enough kid who maybe lacks patience and might leave if not immediately satisfied. And that leads to grabbing at the talent, pretty much no matter what. In addition, coaches think (and are usually right) that this is a parent problem and not a kid problem and when the kid gets to college the influence will lessen. Andre White III being the clear exception to that notion!
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