Now we can celebrate

[SpiderTrap]

Sweeping the series with VCU is cause for celebration. I just remember an earlier thread talking about celebrating victories in our mediocre season, but this is reason to celebrate.

I have said it before and stand firmly by it - the basketball program should have 3 goals/objectives at the beginning of each season.

1) Win the A10 regular season and/or A10 tourney - do either one of these and it will take care of the 2nd goal.

2) Make the NCAA tourney. If you achieve the first goal, this is a given. But as we have shown in the past (2004 and 2010) you don't have to achieve 1 (win the A10) to make the NCAA. It would be nice, but if we don't win the A10 - lets make the NCAA.

3) Beat VCU. Since we play them twice a year - a sweep would be ideal. But we have to at least beat them once each season. This year - we swept them. AND that is reason to celebrate.

I still don't think we achieve 1 or 2, which are the main goals in every season and what will ultimatley make this is a disappointing season at the end of the day, but this is still reason for celebration - sweeping our cross town rival - which has not been done in some time.

 

[urfan1]

Trap, I agree it is time to celebrate. We have been thin most of the year, take your victories where you can.

 

[SpiderFan26]

I would not rather win the A10 regular season than dance. 1) Dance. Make the tournament. That should always be the top goal, although a fair amount apparently don't agree

 

[97spiderfan]

Originally posted by SpiderFan26:
I would not rather win the A10 regular season than dance. 1) Dance. Make the tournament. That should always be the top goal, although a fair amount apparently don't agree


Completely agree 26. I also find it weird that one of our publically stated goals is to finish in the Top 3 of the A-10. Kind of like Mooney's common statements that his goal is for us to get better and better each game. While I can't ever recall him saying our goal is to make the NCAA tournament. For me, the only public goal for our program should be to make the NCAA tournament. That is really all that matters, when it comes down to it. Would just like for us to say that publically A LOT, that this is our expectation.

Not to take away from the original sentiment, yes we should indeed celebrate sweeping VCU this season. That is a big accomplishment, but it is not as big as what should be our ultimate goal of making the NCAA tournament.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Well - my point was - if you win the regular season A10, your going to make the tourney.

I have not gone back and checked - but I can't imagine any A10 regular season champion not making the NCAA tourney since we joined the league.

Agree - NCAA is number 1 goal, but there is no way you win the A10 and not make it.

 

[SpiderFan26]

But under the original goals we could finish 2nd in A10, lose championship, then obviously dance, and still not accomplish the #1 goal, which is unfair to the players

I'm just tired of filling out a bracket and not having to pick between mind and heart
This post was edited on 2/27 1:06 PM by SpiderFan26

 

[SpiderK]

Trap an 26, winning the A-10 should be a major goal. That takes care of the NCAA. It is a very obtainable goal now that the marquee names have left the league. The loss of Temple & Xavier has made it a wide open league that most anyone can win, as we are seeing this year. A-10 should still get 2 or 3 bids on an annual basis.

 

[Eight Legger]

I agree that the NCAA bid should be the top goal. Of course, that is harder to define year to year, because you don't really know what is required to do that, short of winning the league tourney. So I get why Trap's #1 items are what they are -- those are clearly defined goals that can be accomplished and provide a guaranteed result of making the NCAAs.

 

[fan2011]

I think VCU has filled in Temple's spot pretty well (make the NCAAs most years but always lose in the first round). Not sure if we will be able to replace Xavier, they were always a threat to make a run in the NCAAs.

 

[MrTbone]

Having the tournament as our goal is something I'm reasonably certain the team/program shoots for every year. Stating it publicly as a goal is of dubious value, in so far as we can't reasonably achieve the goal. It's demoralizing to set unattainable goals, at least in my experience.

Btw, this is not to say I don't want it to be our goal, but if it is, i wonder what it would require us to do differently?

1. Play a different style that attracts better recruits?
2. Lower our admission standards?
3. Get a different coach?
4. Schedule differently?

Just food for thought.

 

[fan2011]

Originally posted by MrTbone:
Having the tournament as our goal is something I'm reasonably certain the team/program shoots for every year. Stating it publicly as a goal is of dubious value, in so far as we can't reasonably achieve the goal. It's demoralizing to set unattainable goals, at least in my experience.

Btw, this is not to say I don't want it to be our goal, but if it is, i wonder what it would require us to do differently?

1. Play a different style that attracts better recruits?
2. Lower our admission standards?
3. Get a different coach?
4. Schedule differently?

Just food for thought.

We don't need to do any of these things to be successful, we just need to stop being really unlucky. We recruit a ton of A10 caliber players. We have a system that has gotten us as far as the sweet 16 in the past. The problem is we have had some recruiting misses and injuries that have really hampered us.

2 years ago, before DWill got hurt he was one of the most dominant big men ever to play at Richmond. He was averaging 15pts and 7 rebounds before he went down his junior year. He was never the same after he came back from his injury. After he went down all of our forwards were freshman, I think if he could have stayed healthy we would have at least made the NIT.

Last year DWill's injury continued to haunt him. People forget, but we were in the bubble conversation before Ced went down. He might have been the best player in the conference last year, and without him our season went down the drain. If he stays healthy, and DWill doesn't get hurt and doesn't make some bad choices, we would have been a really good team last year. Losing such an integral part of the team 2/3rds of the way through the season is very hard to adjust to, and we just couldn't make up for Ced's absence down the stretch.

This year we are a good team who, as others on the board have pointed out, are one player away from being really good. If we could find just 3 more points in the minutes that TD and DT play we would have about 5 more wins. We have 5 losses that were 2, 1, or 0 point deficits at the end of regulation. That would put us at 21-7 right now with an RPI in the teens and a lock for the NCAAs. Imagine if Deion didn't get hurt after his freshman season and continued to shoot closer to 40% from 3 instead of his current 16%. We would have won a lot more games. We need scoring from the 3, and we have unfortunately had a string of players who can't score recruited for that position. All our other positions have A10 caliber starters in them, and will have A10 caliber starters in them next year too.

Just to give you guys an idea of how bad our 3 position is at scoring here are some numbers from Kenpom. They are the percent of points we get from each position and our national rank.

Center: 23% (56th)
Power Forward: 23.4% (59th)
Small Forward: 8.2% (351st)
Shooting Guard: 18.3% (263rd)
Point Guard: 27.1% (19th)

We literally get the fewest proportion of points from our 3 out of every team in D1. We basically play 4-5 on offense and that is what killed us this year (and last year when we were also 351st in scoring from the small forward.)


Next season we will have Wood, Deikvoss and perhaps an improved Josh as offensive options for the 3. Hopefully one of them pans out.
This post was edited on 2/27 11:06 PM by fan2011

 

[SpiderK]

2011, we all knew we were getting no points from the 2 and 3 position starters. These rankings really drive it home. Thanks for the research.

 

[MrTbone]

Interesting data fan2011, thanks for sharing. I think we all recognize that we have a scoring problem at 3 in Deion. It doesn't concern CM for some reason. I guess it could also be a one dimensional analysis, ignoring defensive contribution for example.

I do concur with the bad luck assessment, although many here don't subscribe to it, suggesting we should have players in the wings. i think that's unrealistic and that you don't have starter depth at each spot.

I personally thought there might be an option to play TA at 3, TJ at 4 and Zo at 5 before zos injury. Not sure how successful,TA would be there but hard to argue it wouldn't be some kind of upgrade offensively.

I guess this also harkens back to a question of why do we not have a more productive SF? Recruiting miss not getting AW3 or Wood previously? Is Deion a natural 3?

 

[SpiderK]

It's a shame we are losing the one that is ranked 19th next year. Looks like we have some guys that will help raise that 351 ranking at the SF position this coming season. I can understand a "Mid Major" having trouble recruiting 6'7" to 6'10" great players, because there are not many of those. However 5'10" to 6'5" great ball players are a dime a dozen comparatively speaking. Even smart ones!! UR should always have a good crop of #1, #2 and #3 position players.

 

[Spider2015]

How freaking scary would we have been with AW3 next year

 

[fan2011]

Originally posted by Spider2015:
How freaking scary would we have been with AW3 next year

Or with AW3 the past 2 years and this year...

 

[Ulla1]

We have AW3 next year, his name is Marshall Wood.

 

[62Spider]

You will love Marshall Wood! You will forget AW3.