Noah Yates - 2018 Grad Transfer

[spider23]

I don't doubt that he may be a solid defender - just the highlights probably don't offer much support one way or another.

I think Captain makes some good points. Lot riding on The BIG 3 playing big minutes and remaining effective. Not the greatest individual defenders, so Mooney hopefully can be flexible and come up with something effective in a zone that kind of helps them out, and hopefully keeps them fresh for the entire season.

 

[urmite]

he should get the medical redshirt for his sophomore football season. played one game, blew out his elbow. his freshman season he only played JV (I didn't know there was such a thing in college).

I believe that the Ivy League doesn’t apply for medical redshirts that is why we have to now. Likely to be approved.

I also believe they don’t recognize any red shirts (4 years to play 4 in Ivy?), which is why they have a good number of grad transfers.

 

[fan2011]

Hitting 3's is good. Very good. But you still have to stop the other team and have guys that can move their feet and stay in front of their man on defense. And our "system" of rebounding doesn't leave a lot of margin for error when we give up second chance attempts and don't get a bunch ourselves. Losing Fore and Buck will be a challenge for our defense to say the least. But maybe our "Big 3" will stay healthy all season (fingers crossed) and not wear down and Mooney will come up with some kind of masterful zone defense or we will just outscore our opponents.

I agree, I think defense is going to be the big problem again this season. I was responding to SpiderOldie's claim that Mooney needs to make significant adjustments to the offense to make it more focused on generating 3pt attempts.

 

[spiderman]

back when our defense was good ... what was it? we weren't big though I'm sure bigger than last year. I can't imagine we were that much more athletic than last year. so why was it so bad last year?

 

[Ulla1]

Defense is certainly unproven at this point. One remembers the NCAA years when our team held the opposition to it seemed under 60 points most games. I recall that when the Spiders got a six or eight point lead it seemed insurmountable for the opposition. Really don’t understand why we cannot do that now? Have our guys been so much slower, so much less athletic than the recent NCAA teams? I don’t know enough to explain the recent lack of defensive prowess, but until the magic formula is once again realized, we will not be consistent winners. Having said that maybe we are on the cusp of putting together the needed pieces. I am optimistic as there has been an uptick in recruiting and the pieces may finally be in place.

 

[nathanw19]

Defense is certainly unproven at this point. One remembers the NCAA years when our team held the opposition to it seemed under 60 points most games. I recall that when the Spiders got a six or eight point lead it seemed insurmountable for the opposition. Really don’t understand why we cannot do that now? Have our guys been so much slower, so much less athletic than the recent NCAA teams? I don’t know enough to explain the recent lack of defensive prowess, but until the magic formula is once again realized, we will not be consistent winners. Having said that maybe we are on the cusp of putting together the needed pieces. I am optimistic as there has been an uptick in recruiting and the pieces may finally be in place.

Our defense was great back then.

Though I’d be interested to look at our points per possession defensively from those days. Unless my memory is deceiving me, Mooney kept the reins on fast breaking a little more back in the day, happily playing slower and in the half court more, which helped keep the scores down defensively as well (due to less possessions).

Obviously, nothing happens in a vacuum, and our offensive strategy (crashing for offensive boards vs getting back) and pace of play will affect our defensive points allowed per game. Hopefully we can find that happy balance again, and show strongly this season!

 

[ur2K]

We had good individual defenders with length that didn't get exposed on switches as much that played so well together and knew where to be and what the others were doing. KA was really the only smaller guy in that rotation. Geriot was slow but we rotated in Garrett who was a + defender.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I think you only need two datapoints to have a trend technically. Our graph may look like a super flatline just above the X axis with a question mark superimposed over datapoint 3.

Can you do this in three dimensional?

 

[fan2011]

Our defense was great back then.

Though I’d be interested to look at our points per possession defensively from those days. Unless my memory is deceiving me, Mooney kept the reins on fast breaking a little more back in the day, happily playing slower and in the half court more, which helped keep the scores down defensively as well (due to less possessions).

Obviously, nothing happens in a vacuum, and our offensive strategy (crashing for offensive boards vs getting back) and pace of play will affect our defensive points allowed per game. Hopefully we can find that happy balance again, and show strongly this season!

We have had 4 seasons of great defense under Mooney in terms of points per possession. 2010, 2011, 2014 and 2015. In 2010 and 2011 we obviously made the NCAAs, and 2014 and 2015 were our two closest seasons to receiving bids since then. In 2014 we were on the bubble until Ced went down for the season, and in 2015 we were in the 1st four out, just barely missing a bid.

What all these seasons had in common was very high returning minutes. They were the top 4 seasons under Mooney in terms of returning minutes. For teams at the A10 level, having a senior led team with a lot of returning minutes is nearly essential for success. The three A10 teams receiving bids this past year were all roughly top 50 in returning minutes (the Bonnies were actually 54th). Last year 2 of the 3 A10 teams receiving bids were top 50 in minutes returned.

 

[97spiderfan]

We have had 4 seasons of great defense under Mooney in terms of points per possession. 2010, 2011, 2014 and 2015. In 2010 and 2011 we obviously made the NCAAs, and 2014 and 2015 were our two closest seasons to receiving bids since then. In 2014 we were on the bubble until Ced went down for the season, and in 2015 we were in the 1st four out, just barely missing a bid.

What all these seasons had in common was very high returning minutes. They were the top 4 seasons under Mooney in terms of returning minutes. For teams at the A10 level, having a senior led team with a lot of returning minutes is nearly essential for success. The three A10 teams receiving bids this past year were all roughly top 50 in returning minutes (the Bonnies were actually 54th). Last year 2 of the 3 A10 teams receiving bids were top 50 in minutes returned.

Good analysis, 2011. Do you have a hypothesis of what has happened to our defense? As you mention, in the past and as recently as 2015, we had a pretty good defense and that has completely fallen apart these past 3 years.

 

[urmite]

We have had 4 seasons of great defense under Mooney in terms of points per possession. 2010, 2011, 2014 and 2015. In 2010 and 2011 we obviously made the NCAAs, and 2014 and 2015 were our two closest seasons to receiving bids since then. In 2014 we were on the bubble until Ced went down for the season, and in 2015 we were in the 1st four out, just barely missing a bid.

What all these seasons had in common was very high returning minutes. They were the top 4 seasons under Mooney in terms of returning minutes. For teams at the A10 level, having a senior led team with a lot of returning minutes is nearly essential for success. The three A10 teams receiving bids this past year were all roughly top 50 in returning minutes (the Bonnies were actually 54th). Last year 2 of the 3 A10 teams receiving bids were top 50 in minutes returned.

How about the changes in Offensive/Defensive performance 2013 to 2014? 2013 good O average D, 2014 good D average O.

Edit: Is it possible to have enough offense to win with the 2008 defense?

 

[KWeaver]

The fact that Noah was a star in baseball, football and basketball indicates that he is a very good athlete. Maybe, just maybe, he will also turn out to be a pretty good defender in basketball as well.

I have always liked how football players play defense in basketball. It's a different mentality.

 

[fan2011]

How about the changes in Offensive/Defensive performance 2013 to 2014? 2013 good O average D, 2014 good D average O.

Edit: Is it possible to have enough offense to win with the 2008 defense?

I think both the offense and defense in 2014 were better than 2013 before Ced went down. Our offense took a much bigger hit than our defense after losing Ced, so the final offensive numbers ended up looking worse than in 2013.

It is possible to make the NCAAs as an at large with a borderline top 100 defense like we had in 2008, it just requires a better offense to compensate. Creighton got a 3 seed this past year with the 124th ranked defense, but they also had the 2nd best offense in the country to compensate for it.

 

[fan2011]

Good analysis, 2011. Do you have a hypothesis of what has happened to our defense? As you mention, in the past and as recently as 2015, we had a pretty good defense and that has completely fallen apart these past 3 years.

I do have a hypothesis but it is pretty out there and I don't think it would be received well on the board.

 

[97spiderfan]

I do have a hypothesis but it is pretty out there and I don't think it would be received well on the board.

Is anything received well on this board anymore? You might as well lay out it out there.

 

[plydogg]

I do have a hypothesis but it is pretty out there and I don't think it would be received well on the board.

Let's hear it! I can't promise the guys who ridicule and mock everyone won't do what they do, but would still be interesting to hear what you say despite their inevitable responses!

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

I do have a hypothesis but it is pretty out there and I don't think it would be received well on the board.

Only if it's "Bad defense is directly correlated with negative message board posts."

 

[spider23]

Hmm, wonder if I fall into the mock and ridicule everything crowd. I did seem to be very bullish on young Mr. Yates. Going back, I would say I have about 5,000 or more posts defending and being positive of one Chris Mooney, so let's be fair here.

97 - I want to apologize on behalf of Spidernation.com for the personal attacks on your employment situation and living situation. I can only guess what would happen if others made such attacks.

Next thing you know mop factory is not a suitable work environment and will be attacked. tsk tsk.

 

[fan2011]

Is anything received well on this board anymore? You might as well lay out it out there.

Too many rebounds, I'll expand tonight when I have more time.

 

[urmite]

Too many rebounds, I'll expand tonight when I have more time.

I'm certain that if you say that our defense got worse because our rebounding improved, then everyone here will agree with you.

 

[spiderman]

Too many rebounds, I'll expand tonight when I have more time.

lol. I hope it's too many rebounds by the other team, or you'll have a lot of splainin to do!

 

[urmite]

lol. I hope it's too many rebounds by the other team, or you'll have a lot of splainin to do!

Well...

2017 We were 341st at rebounding, 243rd at stopping rebounding, 132nd at overall defense
2018 We were 315th at rebounding, 161st at stopping rebounding, 234th at overall defense

 

[SpiderK]

Hitting 3's is good. Very good. But you still have to stop the other team and have guys that can move their feet and stay in front of their man on defense. And our "system" of rebounding doesn't leave a lot of margin for error when we give up second chance attempts and don't get a bunch ourselves. Losing Fore and Buck will be a challenge for our defense to say the least. But maybe our "Big 3" will stay healthy all season (fingers crossed) and not wear down and Mooney will come up with some kind of masterful zone defense or we will just outscore our opponents.

Captain, at least he was a football player. Maybe not afraid to stick his nose in there and play some tough defense

 

[MrTbone]

My theory continues to be that we can absorb one shorty in the rotation, and only one, and still play good defense. When we start two shorties, things hit the skids pretty quick.

This is a highly scientific theory, backed by years of observation while eating nachos and drinking diet coke at the RC.

 

[VT4700]

My theory continues to be that we can absorb one shorty in the rotation, and only one, and still play good defense. When we start two shorties, things hit the skids pretty quick.

This is a highly scientific theory, backed by years of observation while eating nachos and drinking diet coke at the RC.

I agree, and this is why I was saying Khwan would have only gotten about 10-15 minutes a game this year. No way were both he and Jacob going to play a lot, and he was definitely not beating out Jacob.

 

[spider23]

I agree, and this is why I was saying Khwan would have only gotten about 10-15 minutes a game this year. No way were both he and Jacob going to play a lot, and he was definitely not beating out Jacob.

What are we defining shorty? Are Buck and Fore same as Francis. Francis is shooter, but shorty?

 

[VT4700]

With Jacob on the floor, it is a lot easier to give minutes to a shooter/scorer like Francis than a non shooter like Khwan.

 

[spiderman]

With Jacob on the floor, it is a lot easier to give minutes to a shooter/scorer like Francis than a non shooter like Khwan.

but the defensive issue doesn't go away.
I think Francis is the real deal, and combined with Jacob, Nick and Grant we'll be absolutely loaded offensively. and we'll need to be. we might need to average 80.

 

[VT4700]

but the defensive issue doesn't go away.
I think Francis is the real deal, and combined with Jacob, Nick and Grant we'll be absolutely loaded offensively. and we'll need to be. we might need to average 80.

I agree that defensive issues might be there, but if the risk/reward is positive for us because of the offense, then both Jacob and Francis need to play a lot.

 

[VT4700]

Back to this year, if we don't have a 4th scorer out there with the top 3, it would make sense to go with the best defensive lineup. But, who knows? One of these new guys might end up good on both offense and defense, and become a factor for us sooner rather than later.

 

[gcarter52]

The turnover in personnel the last few years has led to our poor defensive performances. Chemistry plays a huge role in our defensive presence....hopefully, our returning players, yes even our redshirts playing over the summer and during the off-season will pay dividends...

 

[kneepadmckinney]

My theory continues to be that we can absorb one shorty in the rotation, and only one, and still play good defense. When we start two shorties, things hit the skids pretty quick.

This is a highly scientific theory, backed by years of observation while eating nachos and drinking diet coke at the RC.

You eat the nachos? Those things are janky.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I agree, and this is why I was saying Khwan would have only gotten about 10-15 minutes a game this year. No way were both he and Jacob going to play a lot, and he was definitely not beating out Jacob.

Did Mooney tell you this? I find it unbelievable to think that a leader & 5th year senior with proven skills who played 30+ minutes a game this year would have been demoted to 10-15 minutes next year.

 

[MrTbone]

You eat the nachos? Those things are janky.

I’m a stone cold gambler, brother.

 

[MrTbone]

Did Mooney tell you this? I find it unbelievable to think that a leader & 5th year senior with proven skills who played 30+ minutes a game this year would have been demoted to 10-15 minutes next year.

I think the original supposition was that DMB would have been here to play 2G. It’s not outside the realm of possibility that would adversely affect khwan’s minutes.

Of course that scenario is out the window twice over.

 

[Spideroldie]

In case anyone is thinking that a high level of personnel turnover is necessarily a bad thing, consider the following:

1. The Boston Celtics this year returned only 4 players from their roster the previous year (FOUR!). As a few observers have noted, this did not seem to hurt the team in the least bit. In fact, it seems to have helped! The key was that they retained the KEY PIECES in their puzzle (Horford, Brown), and they did bring in some pretty good NEW pieces. I believe that we similarly return the 3 key pieces in our puzzle.

2. Also note that the Celtics lost two all-star caliber players, in Gordon Hayward and Kyrie Irving. Most observers would have said they had NO CHANCE to play for the championship, and were strictly in a rebuilding year. This is what great coaching can do. We don't lose a Kyrie and a Gordon, but we do lose two guys who were likely to contribute significantly.

3. Finally, there is a real phenomenon in basketball, called ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION. We have seen this operate for us when ANO left for Pittsburgh, and our remaining center became "all-world" and had a great year. Since I am not an "insider," I do not know much about either Khwan or Buck, nor their impact on the "locker room." It is entirely possible that these guys were both effective leaders. However, I do believe that these is a chance that these guys were not a positive influence on team "chemistry." If so, then we could see some "addition by subtraction" happening this year.

As noted above, I have no inside information that would suggest this is true. However, there are very likely posters on this board who could intelligently comment on this topic. If so, I would love to hear their thoughts on how much we will miss Khwan and Buck, from a "team chemistry" perspective...

 

[VT4700]

It certainly cannot be good for chemistry when you get suspended for a game when your team is on a 5 game winning streak, but that being said, I don't think our team chemistry will be dramatically helped or hurt with them leaving. I think it was fine last year with them, and it will fine again this year without them. I think we will win more this year, so that could make what is already good chemistry even better.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I think the original supposition was that DMB would have been here to play 2G. It’s not outside the realm of possibility that would adversely affect khwan’s minutes.

Of course that scenario is out the window twice over.

Mooney has been very consistent in his lineups; doesn't tinker too much, And he has shown loyalty to a tee over the years with returning players. With KF's productivity, I can only believe if he would have returned that he would have gotten similar minutes next year. I'm not sure where people come up with theories that don't reflect Mooney's history or patterns.

 

[MrTbone]

Mooney has been very consistent in his lineups; doesn't tinker too much, And he has shown loyalty to a tee over the years with returning players. With KF's productivity, I can only believe if he would have returned that he would have gotten similar minutes next year. I'm not sure where people come up with theories that don't reflect Mooney's history or patterns.

Not my theory, just explaining why there may have been a grain of logic in it.

It’s highly unlikely that CM would start a first year player over a three year starter.

 

[VT4700]

Mooney has been very consistent in his lineups; doesn't tinker too much, And he has shown loyalty to a tee over the years with returning players. With KF's productivity, I can only believe if he would have returned that he would have gotten similar minutes next year. I'm not sure where people come up with theories that don't reflect Mooney's history or patterns.

I hear you, but those years we were .500 or a lot better than .500, and when we returned a couple of smaller guards, they were both good shooters, so why would he reduce their minutes? I think when you go 12-20, and played a couple of guys 6'0 or less big minutes, and one of them was not a good shooter and the other is a true PG that was going to play a lot, it is fair to think a different lineup might be coming, and the 6'0 guy who was not a good shooter might lose some significant minutes. We'll never know, so no one is right or wrong here.