No more wins rest of the way

[97spiderfan]

Every Mooney interview is super positive. Of course we don't want him spewing negativity, but I kind of hate listening to him. Where's the sense of urgency? The frustration with a season falling short? The accountability of players and coaches for the lack of development? Either he believes all the positive things he says (problem), or he's BSing the audience (problem).

Because he presents everything so positively, there's no indication of intent to change anything. That's what drives many of us nuts.

I'm ready for a more emotional, honest, introspective approach. Current results are not acceptable.

Noticed this too. You listened to the postgame show, it was like we won. We competed hard, great effort, really got after it out there. B&B teed up Mooney for that response though but opening with a bunch of blathering about how hard we played, which again, was not exactly how I would describe our play. We folded quite easily in the second half and never really threatened to get back in the game.

It's like were trying to spin "moral victories" at this point and even that to me stretches the truth a bit.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

As far as playing hard I believe they did but when we started piling up fouls on our bigs, I noticed how we started backing off a little
and being more careful. Now did we ever switch to a zone at any point? I watched a majority of the game and other than going to full
court pressure which changed momentum back to us in first half, I did not see a change. Even GW switched a couple of times to a zone.
Poor Trey tried two shots inside the lane, and both were bricks with no touch which sums up the season.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Noticed this too. You listened to the postgame show, it was like we won. We competed hard, great effort, really got after it out there. B&B teed up Mooney for that response though but opening with a bunch of blathering about how hard we played, which again, was not exactly how I would describe our play. We folded quite easily in the second half and never really threatened to get back in the game.

It's like were trying to spin "moral victories" at this point and even that to me stretches the truth a bit.

97 I listened to CM sum up the game, and what i caught was the comments of "we are real down, but we cannot wait
to practice tomorrow to prepare for the next game, because we want to get better". This team emotionally has to be spent.

 

[Captain Anderson]

You can see this thing going a couple of different ways. Glass half full fan: We return a really nice back court next year in KF and SDJ along with an excellent big in TJ and we add another transfer big. MW has more games where he hits 3 or 4 3's and the young guys fill in nicely. We win 18 or so games and go to the NIT.

Glass half empty guy: We aren't able to add any bigs to help TJ and we get beaten up on the boards badly. The young guys struggle to adapt to the pace and rigors of college basketball and MW goes cold for long stretches of the season. We finish around .500 and lose SDJ and TJ to graduation with no proven bigs on the roster going forward.

 

[Eight Legger]

As obvious a fit as it would seem to be for us with a grad transfer big guy, my guess is that a) there aren't many good ones available, b) those who are choose to go elsewhere and c) Mooney doesn't even consider a grad transfer because we've never had one before anyway (although we did try to get Mitola, who ended up at GW).

 

[CarolinaSpider]

You can see this thing going a couple of different ways. Glass half full fan: We return a really nice back court next year in KF and SDJ along with an excellent big in TJ and we add another transfer big. MW has more games where he hits 3 or 4 3's and the young guys fill in nicely. We win 18 or so games and go to the NIT.

Glass half empty guy: We aren't able to add any bigs to help TJ and we get beaten up on the boards badly. The young guys struggle to adapt to the pace and rigors of college basketball and MW goes cold for long stretches of the season. We finish around .500 and lose SDJ and TJ to graduation with no proven bigs on the roster going forward.

Captain, MW graduates with SDJ and TJ also.

 

[Captain Anderson]

Captain, MW graduates with SDJ and TJ also.

Thanks for the correction Carolina. My glass may have gotten emptier on that note!

 

[Captain Anderson]

As obvious a fit as it would seem to be for us with a grad transfer big guy, my guess is that a) there aren't many good ones available, b) those who are choose to go elsewhere and c) Mooney doesn't even consider a grad transfer because we've never had one before anyway (although we did try to get Mitola, who ended up at GW).

If we aren't able to add another quality big we could be in serious trouble. TJ already has issues at times picking up fouls and MW is not going to be able to physically handle opposing bigs. Our issues with rebounding are well known and this would only compound that problem. I know quality big guys are at a premium in college basketball but it seems like recruiting/evaluation misses are really catching up to us here.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

I have to agree, we will be losing 2 negatives and 1 positive. With the kids we have coming in, I look at that as a net gain for next year. I honestly think we will be a better team next year than this year. Not great, but better.

Mostly agree. The BIG IF is the frontcourt. If T.J. Cline & Marshall Wood are it, next year will be brutal and will not end well. I am nervous that Captain Anderson's prediction (nightmare) above will come true.

 

[97spiderfan]

We have some holes to fill next year for sure but agreed, next years team should be better this year's team (Keep in my mind we are essentially a .500 team right now). Losing Deion and Trey is a positive, these guys were bad fits for our style of play and yet Mooney felt compelled to play them and the results were predictably disastrous. Even if we have freshman in their, who will make mistakes and probably get schooled on some nights, we at least can feel that we are building towards something.

Losing Terry Allen is going to be a big loss and he is going to be tough to replace though. Have to assume we are heavy in the grad transfer market and have to see who are 4th recruit is plus the inevitable annual waiting to see how many over-recruited players transfer out at the end of the year. My guess is 2 on that.

 

[ur2K]

With Wood and TJ as the projected starting front-court next year, how could we possibly be better on defense? And I say that as someone who thinks TJ can hold his own in the post (but is at a disadvantage to defend on the perimeter where our scheme puts him often).

 

[Eight Legger]

I am concerned that the complete breakdown in our defense this year is seemingly attributed to our lack of a rim-protector like Garrett or ANO, and yet even if we'd had ANO this year, we would not have him next year...and we have no one like him on roster for next year. So either our defense really isn't predicated on having a guy like that, or we're going to suck again next year on defense, and what will the excuse be then?

If having a guy like that is so important in Mooney's system, he should make sure that we have one next year. If we don't, it tells me that it really isn't that important to his system and then we'll have to find another excuse for why we can't defend anyone.

 

[MrTbone]

I am concerned that the complete breakdown in our defense this year is seemingly attributed to our lack of a rim-protector like Garrett or ANO, and yet even if we'd had ANO this year, we would not have him next year...and we have no one like him on roster for next year. So either our defense really isn't predicated on having a guy like that, or we're going to suck again next year on defense, and what will the excuse be then?

If having a guy like that is so important in Mooney's system, he should make sure that we have one next year. If we don't, it tells me that it really isn't that important to his system and then we'll have to find another excuse for why we can't defend anyone.

I don't think I've ever heard CM suggest that his D need a rim protector, I think that's been a suggestion of some on this board. Evidence would suggest it may in fact be the case, although I don't profess to be a good enough evaluator of what's going on to know if that's the problem, or if it's one of numerous other possibilities.

I wouldn't presume we are going to suck again on D next year without that guy. It may be that we just need better "defenders" as some have suggested. We have been burnt a lot by switching problems, but we've also been burnt a lot by just poor fundamentals and not keeping your man in front of you. Maybe with different/better defenders, we improve next year.

History is actually on our side here, we've had very good defensive teams under Mooney, this year being a notable exception. It's possible that this year could be a function of talent and not scheme. Here's to hoping that was the case and the talent will be improved next year...

 

[97spiderfan]

To me our defense sucks this year is because every single one of our defenders is at best an average and we have a couple who are really bad at the craft.below average with a couple guys who are really bad at the craft. I would put some of our seniors in that latter category.

 

[97spiderfan]

I am concerned that the complete breakdown in our defense this year is seemingly attributed to our lack of a rim-protector like Garrett or ANO, and yet even if we'd had ANO this year, we would not have him next year...and we have no one like him on roster for next year. So either our defense really isn't predicated on having a guy like that, or we're going to suck again next year on defense, and what will the excuse be then?

If having a guy like that is so important in Mooney's system, he should make sure that we have one next year. If we don't, it tells me that it really isn't that important to his system and then we'll have to find another excuse for why we can't defend anyone.

Yes, but if it falls apart next year, I have no doubt that someone can come up with a creative excuse that it really isn't Mooney's fault either. It will probably be the fault of this board for being so darn negative and wearing on our players psyche.

 

[Eight Legger]

I'm just struggling to figure out why these guys all of a sudden all suck defensively. How come they didn't suck last year? Did Kendall and Alonzo somehow make them all better than they really were? Were Kendall and Alonzo so incredible on defense that they negated all the terrible defense everyone else played? I can't figure any of that out.

It would be one thing if we had graduated five starters last year and were playing a bunch of guys we'd never seen before. But we are playing 6 juniors and seniors. I just can't believe that those two guys who left had such a dramatic impact on things that it caused the program to implode upon itself defensively this year.

 

[fan2011]

I am concerned that the complete breakdown in our defense this year is seemingly attributed to our lack of a rim-protector like Garrett or ANO, and yet even if we'd had ANO this year, we would not have him next year...and we have no one like him on roster for next year. So either our defense really isn't predicated on having a guy like that, or we're going to suck again next year on defense, and what will the excuse be then?

If having a guy like that is so important in Mooney's system, he should make sure that we have one next year. If we don't, it tells me that it really isn't that important to his system and then we'll have to find another excuse for why we can't defend anyone.

Garrett was playing under 15 minutes a game during our NCAA years. We did not need a rim protector for our defense to work. The problem is people not being where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be and people not knowing when to help or helping too slowly or too late. For example, how does not having a shot blocker make us go from a top 20 3FG% defense to one of the worst in the country? That is all on our players missing their assignments and not switching properly or switching too slowly.

 

[Eight Legger]

Garrett was playing under 15 minutes a game during our NCAA years. We did not need a rim protector for our defense to work. The problem is people not being where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be and people not knowing when to help or helping too slowly or too late. For example, how does not having a shot blocker make us go from a top 20 3FG% defense to one of the worst in the country? That is all on our players missing their assignments and not switching properly or switching too slowly.

I tend to agree with you, but then that still leaves the other question in play. What happened THIS year? All of these guys except for Wood and the freshmen have played for us for several years or more. Did they forget how to play our defense all of a sudden? Did they all get slower or stupider?

 

[MrTbone]

I tend to agree with you, but then that still leaves the other question in play. What happened THIS year? All of these guys except for Wood and the freshmen have played for us for several years or more. Did they forget how to play our defense all of a sudden? Did they all get slower or stupider?

I think it's a very brittle defense. It takes all 5 guys to be good, and only 1 guy to be off for it to quickly break down. So yes, the loss of just 1 or 2 good defenders being replaced by 1 poor defender (or God forbid, more), translates to a potentially precipitous drop in effectiveness.

 

[97spiderfan]

Garrett was playing under 15 minutes a game during our NCAA years. We did not need a rim protector for our defense to work. The problem is people not being where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be and people not knowing when to help or helping too slowly or too late. For example, how does not having a shot blocker make us go from a top 20 3FG% defense to one of the worst in the country? That is all on our players missing their assignments and not switching properly or switching too slowly.

At some point, if the players are consistently missing assignments, not switching properly, or switching too slowly than maybe the coach needs to adapt his defense to something else that the players can do. The defense has sucked all year and aside from some very brief flirtations with some 3-2 zone, we still are running out the same defense that we have proven game in and game out that we are unable to execute.

It must be deflating to the players to go out and told to do something that you can't do very well game after game with the only seeming instruction to be to "try a bit harder next game". The fact that John Moran is scorching our first team defense in practice and the only conclusion that Mooney made out of that is that John Moran deserved some PT is also telling.

 

[fan2011]

I think it's a very brittle defense. It takes all 5 guys to be good, and only 1 guy to be off for it to quickly break down. So yes, the loss of just 1 or 2 good defenders being replaced by 1 poor defender (or God forbid, more), translates to a potentially precipitous drop in effectiveness.

I agree, the defense is about as strong as its weakest link.

 

[MrTbone]

I do think we have history to suggest that the Xs/Os on the D have shown it can work, and work quite well. So I don't fault CM for using the D, nor for being reluctant to abandon it. That's a personnel problem, perhaps coupled with a coaching deficiency and or recruiting deficiency.

I do concur that the inability to adjust is more telling. I can only surmise that an adjustment to another D was actually showing something worse (hard to imagine).

 

[Eight Legger]

I guess that's possible, but that would also mean that we haven't had even 1 guy "off" at all since the KA teams started getting good, because our defense has always been relatively strong. And that doesn't makes sense, because a lot of these same guys played the last 3 years, and if they are all "off" this year, then you'd think at least one of them at a time would have been "off" in previous years.

 

[MrTbone]

True, it could be that a superior defender could make up for a somewhat weaker defender? I don't know, all I know is that the defense has never been flawless. It has always been weak in the non-con schedule while guys are getting used to playing it at game speed and new guys are coming into the rotation. It usually gets good by con schedule and is very solid by end of year.

This year is an anomaly. I don't know why.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

I'm just struggling to figure out why these guys all of a sudden all suck defensively. How come they didn't suck last year? Did Kendall and Alonzo somehow make them all better than they really were? Were Kendall and Alonzo so incredible on defense that they negated all the terrible defense everyone else played? I can't figure any of that out.

It would be one thing if we had graduated five starters last year and were playing a bunch of guys we'd never seen before. But we are playing 6 juniors and seniors. I just can't believe that those two guys who left had such a dramatic impact on things that it caused the program to implode upon itself defensively this year.

Or was different Coach responsib

I'm just struggling to figure out why these guys all of a sudden all suck defensively. How come they didn't suck last year? Did Kendall and Alonzo somehow make them all better than they really were? Were Kendall and Alonzo so incredible on defense that they negated all the terrible defense everyone else played? I can't figure any of that out.

It would be one thing if we had graduated five starters last year and were playing a bunch of guys we'd never seen before. But we are playing 6 juniors and seniors. I just can't believe that those two guys who left had such a dramatic impact on things that it caused the program to implode upon itself defensively this year.

Was there a different defensive Coach this season? Were there different priciples being emphasized (like the fly by the side of the 3-point shooter)? I do not know, but something went south, it wasn't because of new personnel.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I am concerned that the complete breakdown in our defense this year is seemingly attributed to our lack of a rim-protector like Garrett or ANO, and yet even if we'd had ANO this year, we would not have him next year...and we have no one like him on roster for next year. So either our defense really isn't predicated on having a guy like that, or we're going to suck again next year on defense, and what will the excuse be then?

If having a guy like that is so important in Mooney's system, he should make sure that we have one next year. If we don't, it tells me that it really isn't that important to his system and then we'll have to find another excuse for why we can't defend anyone.

X2

New excuses are always good. At least it keeps the conversation fresh & does represent some type of change.

 

[fan2011]

Or was different Coach responsib

Was there a different defensive Coach this season? Were there different priciples being emphasized (like the fly by the side of the 3-point shooter)? I do not know, but something went south, it wasn't because of new personnel.

I am ~95% sure it is because of personnel. The coach is the same, the system is the same, the biggest difference between this year and previous ones are the players. We have to hope that in the future Mooney either comes up with a second defense that we can run when we don't have the right personnel, or he recruits better. I am thinking option 2 is more likely.

 

[keefusb]

Yes, but if it falls apart next year, I have no doubt that someone can come up with a creative excuse that it really isn't Mooney's fault either. It will probably be the fault of this board for being so darn negative and wearing on our players psyche.

As far as I am concerned it has already fallen apart this year. I happen to hold the coaching staff accountable for that, but the rose colored glasses contingent will blame it on this board because our nasty, negative commentary will have scared all of our good recruits away, and they will end up at Marquette instead of Boatwright Drive.

 

[Eight Legger]

Or was different Coach responsib

Was there a different defensive Coach this season? Were there different priciples being emphasized (like the fly by the side of the 3-point shooter)? I do not know, but something went south, it wasn't because of new personnel.

Yeah, possibly. Like I jokingly said in another thread, Brunt was the defensive mastermind but sucked at recruiting. So he left, no one knows how to coach the defense, but our recruiting got a lot better! Presto!

 

[Eight Legger]

I am ~95% sure it is because of personnel. The coach is the same, the system is the same, the biggest difference between this year and previous ones are the players. We have to hope that in the future Mooney either comes up with a second defense that we can run when we don't have the right personnel, or he recruits better. I am thinking option 2 is more likely.

I'm not sure how that is the biggest difference. Terry, SDJ, TJ, Trey and Deion are averaging 151 minutes per game this year combined. Last year they averaged 134 minutes per game combined. I don't think that's enough of a difference to screw up the whole system, especially when you consider that about 20 minutes per game of the "new" minutes this year are coming from Fore, who is arguably our most active defender anyway.

 

[MrTbone]

So 66mpg from last year are "missing" and have in part been filled by some of the same guys. It actually does stand to reason therefore that those who left had a heavy impact, and those who replaced them and/or expanded their minutes, are detracting.

Sort of puts a hole in the "addition by subtraction" theory that some had.

 

[Eight Legger]

So 66mpg from last year are "missing" and have in part been filled by some of the same guys. It actually does stand to reason therefore that those who left had a heavy impact, and those who replaced them and/or expanded their minutes, are detracting.

Sort of puts a hole in the "addition by subtraction" theory that some had.

It's possible, sure, but I guess I look at it and say that these five guys were on the court a LOT of minutes last year and a LOT of minutes this year, and I find it hard to believe that missing 23 mpg of ANO and 36 mpg of Kendall defensively caused all of this to go straight to hell, given that. But maybe that's the case.

As a side note, I never realized this before but mpg is calculated only by how many games the individual played. So for example, KoVien averages 1 minute per game, because he played in 1 game for 1 minute. It makes sense at face value, but it also complicates things if you're trying to get a sense overall of what percentage of all available TEAM minutes each player played. Calculate it that way, and KoVien probably averages about .0000001 minute per game.

 

[fan2011]

It's possible, sure, but I guess I look at it and say that these five guys were on the court a LOT of minutes last year and a LOT of minutes this year, and I find it hard to believe that missing 23 mpg of ANO and 36 mpg of Kendall defensively caused all of this to go straight to hell, given that. But maybe that's the case.

As a side note, I never realized this before but mpg is calculated only by how many games the individual played. So for example, KoVien averages 1 minute per game, because he played in 1 game for 1 minute. It makes sense at face value, but it also complicates things if you're trying to get a sense overall of what percentage of all available TEAM minutes each player played. Calculate it that way, and KoVien probably averages about .0000001 minute per game.

Depends where you get the 'minutes per game' number. If your statistics source is calculating minutes per game that way you really should find something better. If you want a relevant stat, 33.9% of our minutes are being played by someone different this year when compared to last year. Since the defense is only as good as its weakest link, a change in over a 3rd of minutes can result in a drastic change in the overall defensive performance.

 

[Eight Legger]

Depends where you get the 'minutes per game' number. If your statistics source is calculating minutes per game that way you really should find something better. If you want a relevant stat, 33.9% of our minutes are being played by someone different this year when compared to last year. Since the defense is only as good as its weakest link, a change in over a 3rd of minutes can result in a drastic change in the overall defensive performance.

I just got the mpg stats on richmondspiders.com. But like I said, it seemed odd to me that they calculate them based on the number of games played by each individual player. Of course the 5 that I mentioned played in every game last year and all of them except Deion (who missed two games) played in every game this year, so their mpg are pretty accurate either way.

 

[MidloTrader]

What was most interesting to me last night was the one lineup that got us on a run and gave us the lead before we blew it before the half (as usual) was one with ALL underclassmen -- no seniors. They were quicker on defense and actually got GW off balance. And they pushed the ball up the court on O and were attacking. But then as usual for CM, we don't see that lineup again in the game. Only thing that gives me a slight glimmer of hope for the future . . . however still very small.

 

[SpiderK]

What was most interesting to me last night was the one lineup that got us on a run and gave us the lead before we blew it before the half (as usual) was one with ALL underclassmen -- no seniors. They were quicker on defense and actually got GW off balance. And they pushed the ball up the court on O and were attacking. But then as usual for CM, we don't see that lineup again in the game. Only thing that gives me a slight glimmer of hope for the future . . . however still very small.

They made a few mistakes, but the energy was up and like you said faster!! When Mooney put the starting 5 back in after halftime, I knew it was over. It was.

 

[spiderman]

you don't "need" a rim protector for the defense to work, but a rim protector allows perimeter defenders to be more aggressive knowing if they get beat he can make up for their mistakes.

we're not adding a grad transfer big man. 1% chance of that. we add Friendshuh and Golden. unproven and young, but hopefully 2 quality bigs to help out. I doubt either is going to be a shot blocker, but hopefully their feet are good.

 

[I-M-UR]

I'm just struggling to figure out why these guys all of a sudden all suck defensively. How come they didn't suck last year? Did Kendall and Alonzo somehow make them all better than they really were? Were Kendall and Alonzo so incredible on defense that they negated all the terrible defense everyone else played? I can't figure any of that out.

It would be one thing if we had graduated five starters last year and were playing a bunch of guys we'd never seen before. But we are playing 6 juniors and seniors. I just can't believe that those two guys who left had such a dramatic impact on things that it caused the program to implode upon itself defensively this year.

I think a lot of it is the rule changes or should I say focus on controling contact. From my perspective it's a better world for college basketball it was becoming a strength contest, it's tough on UR but college basketball generally a good thing. It should have helped good shooting teams, what happened to ours?

"The key areas the committee will focus on in the upcoming season are:

• Perimeter defense, particularly on the dribbler and strictly enforcing the directives put in the book before the 2013-14 season.
• Physicality in post play.
• Screening, particularly moving screens and requiring that the screener be stationary.
• Block/charge plays.
• Allowing greater freedom of movement for players without the ball."

 

[fan2011]

I think a lot of it is the rule changes or should I say focus on controling contact. From my perspective it's a better world for college basketball it was becoming a strength contest, it's tough on UR but college basketball generally a good thing. It should have helped good shooting teams, what happened to ours?

"The key areas the committee will focus on in the upcoming season are:

• Perimeter defense, particularly on the dribbler and strictly enforcing the directives put in the book before the 2013-14 season.
• Physicality in post play.
• Screening, particularly moving screens and requiring that the screener be stationary.
• Block/charge plays.
• Allowing greater freedom of movement for players without the ball."

Our defense was never predicated on physicality. Why would our defense be disproportionately affected by the rule changes?

 

[64Spider]

The refs at our game Wednesday worked on the moving screen call a lot. Unfortunately they only concentrated on one team.