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Mooney signs extension

8legs1dream said:
Saying "hey this horrible basketball program does our special thing too!" isn't as great a look as you think it is. 🥱
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This "horrible program" has a better basketball history than we do. We've been in the A10 for 20 years with them. I don't see how them going to a worse basketball conference now changes the point that they have expectations of their coach, which I presume is also championships and NCAAs, yet extended his contract when he achieved even less than Mooney did. I also bring up schools like NC State to show how a lot of schools have incentive clauses that give extensions for adding additional years in their contract based on conference and NCAA tournament results. For all we know, that could also be the case with us. Yes, I would love for UR to be more transparent with these things, but they aren't. Just who they are. Doesn't mean they don't have expectations of their coaches.
97spiderfan said:
They want/they really need stable seasoned leadership because their basketball program is going to see a lot of transition over the next few years moving to a lower ranked conference. I would imagine the portal will be full of UMass players when they make this transition and the players they get in return are not going to have the same pedigree of player that is leaving.
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I think you bring up a very good point about the AD wanting to keep stability and minimize the players going to the portal. With that reasoning, could it also have been reasonable that we extended Mooney's contract in 2020 when we saw guys like Gilly, Golden, Sherod, Cayo and felt that we didn't want to lose them to the transfer portal and keeping them on our roster was our best chance of making the NCAAs?
 
spiderstudent17 said:
This "horrible program" has a better basketball history than we do. We've been in the A10 for 20 years with them. I don't see how them going to a worse basketball conference now changes the point that they have expectations of their coach, which I presume is also championships and NCAAs, yet extended his contract when he achieved even less than Mooney did. I also bring up schools like NC State to show how a lot of schools have incentive clauses that give extensions for adding additional years in their contract based on conference and NCAA tournament results. For all we know, that could also be the case with us. Yes, I would love for UR to be more transparent with these things, but they aren't. Just who they are. Doesn't mean they don't have expectations of their coaches.
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They have a grand total of ONE NCAA appearance in the 21st century dude. But I guess Cult of Mooney folks think that's average.
 
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spiderstudent17 said:
I'm tired of rehashing the same points. If you don't think that the last 5 years have been solid for us as a basketball program and that we continue to show signs of trending in the right direction, then I don't know what else to say. I respect your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree.
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So we’re not one of the top basketball programs in the nation ?
 
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GKiller said:
So we’re not one of the top basketball programs in the nation ?
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No, obviously we’re not. We’re not even the top program in the A10 right now. VCU or Dayton likely holds that title.

I’m assuming you’re referencing Mooney’s quote regarding the recent contract extension. What’s your issue with it? Do you think that Mooney really believes we are a top program in the nation? I guess it depends on how loose his definition of “top” is, but I don’t think he meant it along the lines of Kansas, Duke, UConn, Kentucky. However, I want us to have the mentality that we can be a top program and we should have those aspirations. So I don’t know whether you see that statement as delusional or not. I see it as stating our ambitions and mindset of being a top program in the nation.
 
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spiderstudent17 said:
No, obviously we’re not. We’re not even the top program in the A10 right now. VCU or Dayton likely holds that title.

I’m assuming you’re referencing Mooney’s quote regarding the recent contract extension. What’s your issue with it? Do you think that Mooney really believes we are a top program in the nation? I guess it depends on how loose his definition of “top” is, but I don’t think he meant it along the lines of Kansas, Duke, UConn, Kentucky. However, I want us to have the mentality that we can be a top program and we should have those aspirations. So I don’t know whether you see that statement as delusional or not. I see it as stating our ambitions and mindset of being a top program in the nation.
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It wasn’t aspirational. Read quote again. Plus they act like they built that when we were better early in a10 tenure pre Moonicorn.

I don’t expect that to mean Duke kU UK etc. but I’d say that means top 50 or 60. Are we that? As u said we should consistently do well in a10 if we’re that and also expect NCAAs at least every other year if not more.

There is likely a disconnect of what our admin and coach view as success and real success. U can call that quote delusional. We r a respected program but idk if anyone else would describe us the other way tho. I can tell u a top program in nation is not 3 for 20 (no ncaa expectation this season except a few negative fans apparently) and it’s not the last 5 years either.
 
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GKiller said:
It wasn’t aspirational. Read quote again. Plus they act like they built that when we were better early in a10 tenure pre Moonicorn.

I don’t expect that to mean Duke kU UK etc. but I’d say that means top 50 or 60. Are we that? As u said we should consistently do well in a10 if we’re that and also expect NCAAs at least every other year if not more.

There is likely a disconnect of what our admin and coach view as success and real success. U can call that quote delusional. We r a respected program but idk if anyone else would describe us the other way tho. I can tell u a top program in nation is not 3 for 20 (no ncaa expectation this season except a few negative fans apparently) and it’s not the last 5 years either.
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I get what you mean. For me, it’s just coach speak. I don’t read too much into it either way. In general, not just unique to UR, coaches, athletic directors, even announcers at games don’t typically dive deep in the details of things and always tend to be positive, even if hyperbolic at times, in public and keep other criticism private.

It’s like when announcers calling our games bring up the fact that Mooney is the all time winningest coach here. That’s a true statement and a positive way of looking at it. More nuanced, is recognizing that this is because he has been our longest tenured coach and also has the most losses at UR. In terms of winning percentage, he would not be the #1 coach at UR. I think that’s just how it is with PR and sports media. I see it all the time with the pro sports teams I follow too.
 
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spiderstudent17 said:
I get what you mean. For me, it’s just coach speak. I don’t read too much into it either way. In general, not just unique to UR, coaches, athletic directors, even announcers at games don’t typically dive deep in the details of things and always tend to be positive, even if hyperbolic at times, in public and keep other criticism private.

It’s like when announcers calling our games bring up the fact that Mooney is the all time winningest coach here. That’s a true statement and a positive way of looking at it. More nuanced, is recognizing that this is because he has been our longest tenured coach and also has the most losses at UR. In terms of winning percentage, he would not be the #1 coach at UR. I think that’s just how it is with PR and sports media. I see it all the time with the pro sports teams I follow too.
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We all know coachspeak that’s so way beyond that. Also coachspeak is usually about talking up other team not your own.

Media can legit call Moonicorn the winningest coach. They can also call him losingest coach too. But have u ever heard any announcer call us 1 of the top programs in country? Of course not…unfortunately. Not seeing any equivalency there.

Our normal narrative is little ol’ Richmond, we competed and leafy campus. Even comes straight from UR’s biggest benefactor and former rector. Thus so funny and remarkable to see something over the top like this. But I prefer new one. Just wish it was ok to have expectations of a top program, and more importantly results. But no doubt we’ll be back to hearing little ol’ Richmond and compete at the first sign of adversity.
 
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spiderstudent17 said:
Here I go posting about other teams again, but UMass extends Frank Martin 2 more years through 2028-2029 season after leading the team to a 20-11 record this season, 4 seed in A10, and 0 trophies. UMass ended their season losing their first game in A10 tournament and didn’t have any other post season games. Does UMass not care about NCAAs and A10 championships?

View embedded media
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George Mason extends their coach another year despite finishing 8th in A10 with a 9-9 record. 20-12 overall, and no post season tournament.



They must like the impact Coach Skinn made year 1 and the trajectory the program is headed despite no trophies or post season appearances.

 
spiderstudent17 said:
George Mason extends their coach another year despite finishing 8th in A10 with a 9-9 record. 20-12 overall, and no post season tournament.

View embedded media


They must like the impact Coach Skinn made year 1 and the trajectory the program is headed despite no trophies or post season appearances.

View embedded media
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That info graphic really summarizes just how mediocre George Mason basketball is as a program. First 20 win season in over a decade. 4 top 100 wins! I mean what? Is that even a statistic. Not Quad 1 wins, just top 100 some arbitrary metric. They started 13-2 because they played 12 cupcakes.

I know we complain about the Mooney mediocracy that some embrace, but always a good reminder that some of our conference partners, their entire program is very mid.
 
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97spiderfan said:
That info graphic really summarizes just how mediocre George Mason basketball is as a program. First 20 win season in over a decade. 4 top 100 wins! I mean what? Is that even a statistic. Not Quad 1 wins, just top 100 some arbitrary metric. They started 13-2 because they played 12 cupcakes.

I know we complain about the Mooney mediocracy that some embrace, but always a good reminder that some of our conference partners, their entire program is very mid.
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The true comparison will be - if George Mason repeats that result for the next 3-4 years, will they keep their coach or move on. If they win 18-20+ games a year, but don't make the NCAA tourney or even come close - does George Mason keep him or fire him?
 
they were an average 9-9 A10 team last year.
I think they did exactly what we're saying they should do as an average team ... by scheduling easy OOC to build a good record.
and it worked. A10 was ranked 8th ... best ranking in years.
 
SpiderTrap said:
The true comparison will be - if George Mason repeats that result for the next 3-4 years, will they keep their coach or move on. If they win 18-20+ games a year, but don't make the NCAA tourney or even come close - does George Mason keep him or fire him?
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I think the one thing that I have come to realize that Athletic Director's job security is tied to the hires they make in MBB and FB. So, these extensions are both self affirmations of their own decision and additional job security for the AD. "See look, my hire did such a good time that we are offering him a contract extension". And since my hire is doing such a good time, I obviously am as well. They might as well be signing their own contract extension at the same time.

Likewise if you aren't extending your hires, than that is also a reflection on you and your job performance.
 
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97spiderfan said:
I think the one thing that I have come to realize that Athletic Director's job security is tied to the hires they make in MBB and FB. So, these extensions are both self affirmations of their own decision and additional job security for the AD. "See look, my hire did such a good time that we are offering him a contract extension". And since my hire is doing such a good time, I obviously am as well. They might as well be signing their own contract extension at the same time.

Likewise if you aren't extending your hires, than that is also a reflection on you and your job performance.
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I agree with that to an extent. But I also think an AD can extend themselves by hiring a new coach IF the old coach is not meeting expectations. It almost resets the clock for them in a sense that sure, the previous coach didn't work out, but this one will - so you let them see it through. BUT - you can probably only goes to this well 1-2 times. If your constantly changing coaches, then your right - the President and Board will probably be asking themselves - can you hire the right coach? It appears you can't.

So for Hardt - I would fully expect him to get an extension as he would point to his recent hires - Roussell for WBB and Aoki in baseball - both who had good years last year. Mooney - he will pat himself on the back for not firing him after two bad years in 2018 and 2019. He could argue he is the smartest guy in the room and sticking with Mooney has paid off with two NIT appearances, 1 NCAA appearance and win, and 1 A10 regular season title. I think Huesman falls into same category as I believe was hired just before Hardt took over, but UR football was 5 years in with Russ and no playoff appearances (really 4 years and 1 COVID). But like Mooney - he decided to stay with Russ and paid off with 2 playoff appearances and playoff wins. So again Hardt can tell the President - I know what I am doing, I held my cards and it paid off not once (Mooney), but twice (Mooney and Huesman).
 
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97spiderfan said:
Probably a fair ranking. I bet if were to average our NET over the past 18 years, it would probably be in the 90's.
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It would be NET and RPI, NET only been around for 6 years. use RPI for every year besides the last 6. But I would take OVER the 90s there. Mortal lock it. But you're probably in the ballpark for sure. I just think there have been too many high RPI years in Mooney's career overall at UR. even tho the RPI was more favorable to mids than the NET. Median probably closer idk, but average give me the over.

& that's a job for our guy SFSpidur.
 
GKiller said:
It would be NET and RPI, NET only been around for 6 years. use RPI for every year besides the last 6. But I would take OVER the 90s there. Mortal lock it. But you're probably in the ballpark for sure. I just think there have been too many high RPI years in Mooney's career overall at UR. even tho the RPI was more favorable to mids than the NET. Median probably closer idk, but average give me the over.

& that's a job for our guy SFSpidur.
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I thought his job was to determine the NET formula so he could tell us where we would have been the last 18 years…
 
I looked this up - it was easier to find than I thought and I think someone authorized extra vaca time for SF.

I’m glad I banged the OVER! 112 average over 19 years.

97 u owe me three ‘the Goose is Loose’ chants. Then look out for Michael Keaton.
 
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GKiller said:
I looked this up - it was easier to find than I thought and I think someone authorized extra vaca time for SF.

I’m glad I banged the OVER! 112 average over 19 years.

97 u owe me three ‘the Goose is Loose’ chants. Then look out for Michael Keaton.
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Thanks for stepping up. ;)
 
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