Mooney on Gonzalvez
- Thread starter ChoppinBroccoli
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Coach Mooney is an excellent leader of young men. Go Spiders.
This is my last post to this one as it has gotten off the rails, but has been a good discussion. If you go back and read from beginning to end - I think this thread is a good example of our society right now. It started with Mooney posting his feelings on the situation, but also providing an example of a good cop helping one of his players. I applauded him for that - because I think the good cops will get lost in the current environment. And then Ferrum came in with the exact viewpoint of the other side - that all cops are bad cops. One bad apple makes the whole bunch rotten. I have nothing against Ferrum for this view - I thank him for sharing his experiences on here that have led him to this view and it is his right to feel this way. And I don't blame him for feeling this way. And I think you can see by his passion how difficult it is to ask him to open up from this opinion. Just as he stated - its hard for someone that has not been in his experience to put themselves in his shoes. But I think this is where we stand right now as a society. You have one side, and they include all colors of people (go to a protest - I have attended 3 this week in Richmond - there are just as many white people upset over this as non-white people) who are mad and upset at recent events and rightfully so. No one is agreeing that the recent events were just and right. But the other side - which agrees these actions were wrong and upsetting - and you saw several posts on this thread - are just trying to say - this is not everyone. We need more of the good cops to step up. More good people to step up for this to end. And neither side right now can imagine or put themselves on the other side for just a moment. And this is why I think what you saw on this thread and what your seeing outside with all these protests will just continue.
I disagree. It’s your comment that caused this to go off the rails when you decided to focus on the unfair views of police instead of the wider injustices at hand. Not seeing the first through the trees.
Any chance we can get this locked or moved to the General Board? Thread started out great and a reminiscence in Gonzo (who was before my time and I will admit I never knew his real name, just that there was a guy named Gonzo). Was very enlightening on him and very enjoyable to read but none of us come here for politics
Not sure where I said ALL COPS WERE BAD just finishing a quote people love to use for the police defense but it isnt a really fitting analogy for their argument based of what you even said considering what the analogy is. If a bad cop doesnt spoil the whole bunch I suggest to use another analogy is what I am saying.
I highly doubt its your last statement but I think its important to note that I took down my entire post asking for Ricks help (Which he still hasn't commented on or even seems the slightest bit curious about, despite his talk about how much he hates a bad cop that I encountered) because I was trying to stay in line with what Chop was talking just a about in his last post. After it was deleted, Spider23 asked what happened to it so I responded and said why because the mods catch a lot of crap on here for censorship.
Then you came in and gave me an entire lecture pointing the finger at me being part of why things will never change, which I take exception to because I have overwhelming evidence that goes against what you are arguing to me. I have not picked a side at that point just making an observation for people who like to argue like you do. You took it meaning that I think all cops are bad and I am on that side and that this discourse is whats preventing anything from getting accomplished. I went ahead and described why I deleted it and that the only reason why was to offer a fresh perspective to people who could use a different perspective. And like clock work you proved my internal thoughts as to why I deleted the post (because some wont even try and understand and just pretend to be sorry or care) and went to bat over several posts about how much of a problem I am and give me the both sides ism crap that got us here in the first place. Suddenly that makes me on their side and unable to listen to the other side? I don't understand why my criticism of police has to always include an asterik demanding that I also say they're are good cops out there as if we don't already know that.
I am a huge fan of nuance and you should of read enough of my posts to know I don't dig my heels in on much and look at it from both perspectives. And I don't consider myself doing that here either. Cops have to put up with a bunch of shit I never dream to deal with, you already know that clearly as do I. That doesnt give them as pass so they can go around treating everyone around like they are an enemy combatant and then when they screw up, do everything they can to cover their ass while hiding behind the good guys argument you are perpetuating.
I see the forests - but remember, the forest is made up a trees. And right now your sentiment and that of Ferrum and that of a large group in society right now is that if one bad tree ruins the whole forest. Ferrum used apples I think - one bad apple ruins the bunch. That is saying one bad cop makes the whole bunch bad - and I think that line of thinking is part of (not the entire) reason our society is in the position we are in right now.
I never said the actions of the cops was right - they should be penalized to the fullest. They were wrong. But I like what Mooney did - pointing out a good cop story cause there are still good trees in the forest, we need to get rid of the bad ones AND change our view to stop thinking all the trees are bad.
I never said the actions of the cops was right - they should be penalized to the fullest. They were wrong. But I like what Mooney did - pointing out a good cop story cause there are still good trees in the forest, we need to get rid of the bad ones AND change our view to stop thinking all the trees are bad.
So much for no longer commenting on the topic and just looking to get another word in. Congrats on feeling woke.
I always appreciate the disappointed father posts you give from time to time....He can have the last word for all I care. The floor is his and as I said earlier I wish my original post would never of been spotted because you can't make everyone happy and will run with it as they please.
Ferrum, I didn't respond because I said I was done talking about it. I am very sorry for whatever has happened to you in the past, it obviously left scars on you that you still carry around. I have scars also, once being beaten by 3 African American teenagers because I dared to try an arrest one of them for committing a felony...my bad for not waiting for backup. But your both story and my story are anecdotal. We both need to try to see the bigger picture instead of focusing on what has happened to us personally. When all this shit is over with and maybe we can have a game to go to again, I would love to buy you beers and give you big hugs. We have common ground because WE ARE ALL SPIDERS.
Now, don't anyone ask me any more questions because I have said all I want to.
Y’all both just said you were done above and then BOTH RESPONDED AGAIN. This is like each of your 5th “final” response. You guys are like KISS and all their “farewell tours”
The both sides need to change is a tired argument. It’s literally police’s job to deal with people who don’t trust them and act out. What this week has helped shine a light on is that police, amongst other issues, need to be better at de-escalating situations.
And police need to hold each other more accountable for each others actions. Or we need a independent body to review actions.
As to the a few bad apples and the comparisons given about coaches, teachers, and bosses; real change have come from scandals of their abuse of power. Coaches can’t act like Bobby knight did. Bosses can’t harass and bully their employees (especially women) as they did in the “old” days.
I think people are asking for this sort of change of accountability for Police; that when they act badly, it doesn’t take the filming of a man being murdered, protests across the country, and an independent autopsy to make the DA’s office change the charge to second degree murder. Holding Police accountable will help curb the “bad apples” as you call them.
Police are important and should most often be celebrated for their civil service. But when they abuse their power, they should be punished by losing their job and being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, as other professions are.
I'm more offended you compared me to kiss then people putting words in my mouth here....
In all seriousness though not sure where I specifically said five times that I was done with it unless you're being hyperbolic to prove a point....only commenting on what he said after he decided to speak for me. You asked me a question and made a statement and I answered it. When someone who regularly turns heat on mods for deleting posts asked why a post was deleted I felt an explanation was needed to kill any conspiracy theories because it was a racy post regarding what happened. Not wanting this thread to turn into a referendum on the mods, I explained myself without writing the whole story down because its tough to re-read for me personally and felt it was a little too personal for this webpage since we do come here for sports mostly. I just mentioned how some could use a different perspective and then mayhem ensued. I mentioned earlier that I hope it would of been gone before people started to take my response out of context and look what happened....
Look I know it can get tiring reading the volleying back and forth I get it especially when you have no dog in the fight. Im sure Im killin chopins friday night broccoli buzz (sorry broc) as he reads this. No disrespect is meant to anyone here but I will be firm when needed with people who think they can talk on my behalf on something as personal as this no matter what. There is simply a segment of people who will take offense or exaggerate any criticism or suggestion of police corruption and turn it into whatever narrative they want. It doesn't mean I am anti cop but some people perceive it as such and you can see that by just reading that thread and then people get tired of reading my reasoning.
I am friends with several URPD officers. As in had a beer with them friends from my time there (Not on duty) and even they saw some stuff I wouldn't wish on others. No cops have saved my ass personally but they have for people I care about. Chief McCoy oversaw the response to my mother when she slipped on some ice and dislocated her shoulder. His response is above and beyond what was expected from a cop that day. I do have some respect for the job, but until all the bad cops are held responsible for their actions which in my case, as well as many others I have witnessed with my own eyes, does not happen, then people are not going to feel good about the police like many currently do. There are some people who will just not accept that people have a right to feel that way. Yet someone has the nerve to say I am part of the problem without even knowing the full reasoning of the post or trying to get more facts before he speaks out of his you know what. I don't mind when you talk out of your @$$ for basketball, but when you suggest I am a problem with the current state of america without any facts supporting it expect a vigorous response in my defense. And now here I am talking about all the great things cops have done for me without even mentioning the terrible things they have also done to me because I gotta make sure to mention good cops at every turn.
I'm not sure why it was necessary to mention the race of three people who attacked you Rick. Whom ever they were though, hopefully they were brought to justice once they were caught and if they weren't then the system failed you like it did me and I apologize for that. No one should have to endure that.
I hold no ill will to good cops out there which is what people probably think when I’m writing this, but people coming at me need to understand until the bad cops are held responsible (not holding my breath) I am not going to feel so hot about the HPD or others for the most part, no matter how much I like Rick personally. It really shouldn’t be that hard to get.
Ply I'm not sure if you read the original post that was deleted because if you did, perhaps you'd understand why this is a hill I don't mind dying on?
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