Lets Reverse the Question

[SpiderTrap]

I think it is safe to say the majority (more than half) are unhappy with the current state of our program. And ultimately -- the lies with the coaching staff since this is college athletics and not the pros. But I thought it might be interesting to take a different look at this question on why we are unhappy and ask - what results would have made you happy. Here we sit after 11 years under Mooney and we have finished 4th or better (no better than 3rd) in the A10 regular season 4 times. We won 1 A10 tournament. NCAA twice with a sweet 16 appearance. 1 NIT appearance. And 3 CBI appearances. Overall record of 203-162. But what if you could change those numbers or stats or maybe you have other milestones in mind.

For example - if we had been to 4 NCAA tourney's and 3 NIT's in that time - would that be successful? If we had won 2 or 3 A10 regular season titles or tourney titles - would that be better? What if you could rewrite the past 11 years - what would you have liked to see to make you feel good today about the state of our program?

 

[MrTbone]

I would be pretty ecstatic if we had gone to the tournament on average every other year. I'm not saying that's expected or realistic, but I'd be pretty pleased with that. Mix in an NIT in those off years, that would be pretty solid.

Realistically, I want to go 1 time every 3 years to the NCAA.

 

[UR Fan 2]

KenPom Top 75 every year.
Recruit good kids.
Run a clean program.
NCAA tourney every third year.
NIT every third year.

67% making NIT or NCAA, with above qualifiers.

 

[spiderman]

my problem with the state of the program isn't with the past. I've enjoyed the past years (some more than others) despite the eventual heartbreaks. but with 3 seniors and no juniors next season, we're not realistically on the cusp. if we did big things this past year, we could bask in the glow and live with a roster rebuild. but we had another tough season and now we look like we're two years away. the seniors will be good and the recent recruiting give me a lot of hope but this team appears too raw to contend next season, though I'll hope. there is talent. but a few of the question marks will have to be huge. maybe they will be. they'll get an opportunity for sure.

if the incoming freshmen weren't so highly thought of I'd be in a bad place. but I'm excited for the future. I just hope the future comes sooner than I fear. bring in at least one more big piece and throw me a couple of stories about how (fill in non-senior name) is unstoppable in Europe and I'll be all in again.

 

[coachfezz]

I would b e happy without magical thinking about defense players

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I would be satisfied if every year we were competitive enough to be considered for the NCAA or NIT, but only actually in every third year.
I would also be satisfied if we finished every year in the top six of the A10, for this would mean we are competitive with anyone.

 

[Eight Legger]

My frustration really is only with the past 4 years. Mooney took over a disaster and gradually turned it into a Sweet 16, so those years went about as well as could have been expected. Then we graduated a bunch of guys, so I didn't expect to make the tournament the following year.

But the past 4 years are the failures. I would have expected 3 NCAA trips in those 4 years, coming off the upward trajectory, the Sweet 16 exposure, in theory the ability to recruit even better players, the renovated Robins Center, etc. At a minimum, a top-2 finish in the regular season once and an appearance in the A-10 title game once wouldn't have been asking too much.

 

[Hanca]

NCAA 3 of 4 years

 

[97spiderfan]

My frustration really is only with the past 4 years. Mooney took over a disaster and gradually turned it into a Sweet 16, so those years went about as well as could have been expected. Then we graduated a bunch of guys, so I didn't expect to make the tournament the following year.

But the past 4 years are the failures. I would have expected 3 NCAA trips in those 4 years, coming off the upward trajectory, the Sweet 16 exposure, in theory the ability to recruit even better players, the renovated Robins Center, etc. At a minimum, a top-2 finish in the regular season once and an appearance in the A-10 title game once wouldn't have been asking too much.

I agree with TBone and Eight Legger. Honestly, I would give Mooney a grade of A for his first 5 years. He rebuilt the program from a disaster and turned it to 2 straight NCAA, Sweet 16 and a Top 25 ranking in each of those years.

The last 5 years though have been a different story, I would probably grade out at about a D- and I think I am being generous with that grade. We had all of this momentum from 2 straight NCAA's that we should have cashed into getting better recruits, especially with our renovation of the Robins Center, making our home venue one of the best in the country. Instead of getting better recruits though, we went in the opposite direction. The recruiting tanked and we are now a mid-pack A-10 program. In short, Mooney's coaching tenure is resembling a bell curve at this point. He built us up and then deconstructed what he built.

My expectation for our program is to be competing for the NCAA 3 out of every 4 years. By competing, I mean, we are close enough that if we don't make the NCAA we are getting NIT bids in those years. I don't think that is unreasonable at considering our league, our facilities, and the investment we make in the program.

 

[mcspider]

I agree about the last 5 years. And it makes it feel even worse in that it came from a starting point much better off than what Mooney originally started. In a way I feel like we are in the same situation as 5 years ago. We have what would seem to be a better brand of recruits coming in next year and what looks to also be the following year. I really hope that this set of recruits is a better match than the last ones.

I think after the NCAA trips in two consecutive years, doors were opened to some more and different recruits. And I think in a way he got some good recruits, but they did not match up with his offensive and defensive systems as well as previously. And Mooney didn't change enough in his offense and defense to accommodate these recruits that seemed to be a bit more generically athletic, and less stereotypical Princeton offense types that pass and shoot well but might lack that same level of athleticism. I am hoping that in what has started with the next two classes of recruits that he has guys that match up better with the offense and defense. The class coming in next year seems like a step in the right direction. Coming off of 5 years of missed NCAA trips, the margin for error for this class and beyond will only get smaller without any tourney bids.

 

[urmite]

Recruiting through the Mooney years does look interesting. I'm trying to look at those who stayed and contributed.

Is it right that Jarhon Giddings was the only Freshman November 2005?

After that...
11/06 - Gonzalvez, Geroit, Butler
11/07 - Anderson, Harper, Kevin Smith

Then...
11/08 - Garrett, Martel, Duinker

Since...
11/09 - Brothers, Robbins
11/10 - Lindsey, Derrick Williams
11/11 - Anthony, Davis (I'm looking at starting years not finishing years)
11/12 - Allen, Taylor
11/13 - Shawdre & Josh Jones
11/14 - Fore, Friendshuh
11/15 - Julius Johnson, Pistokache
11/16 - Buckingham, Sherod

It would be nice to consistently get 2 or 3 impact players and 6 total contributing players out of each two recruiting cycles.

 

[spiderman]

11/16 - Buckingham, Sherod, Golden
11/17 - Godwin, Schneider
I think you need to include Cline and Wood somehow too. they're recruited, just not freshmen.

 

[SpiderGuy]

NCAA 2 out every 5 years (conservative goal). Prefer at least every 2 years.

NIT on years when no bid to NCAA.

Top 5 in conference every year.

Willingness and flexibility to change when things are not going well. Rigidity is no formula for success.

Emphasis on free throw shooting. Change in mechanics when needed.

Better game management.

 

[PawleysSpider]

At least a 50%/50% record against VCU

 

[MrTbone]

Recruiting through the Mooney years does look interesting. I'm trying to look at those who stayed and contributed.

Is it right that Jarhon Giddings was the only Freshman November 2005?

After that...
11/06 - Gonzalvez, Geroit, Butler
11/07 - Anderson, Harper, Kevin Smith

Then...
11/08 - Garrett, Martel, Duinker

Since...
11/09 - Brothers, Robbins
11/10 - Lindsey, Derrick Williams
11/11 - Anthony, Davis (I'm looking at starting years not finishing years)
11/12 - Allen, Taylor
11/13 - Shawdre & Josh Jones
11/14 - Fore, Friendshuh
11/15 - Julius Johnson, Pistokache
11/16 - Buckingham, Sherod

It would be nice to consistently get 2 or 3 impact players and 6 total contributing players out of each two recruiting cycles.

Jarhon was a wainwright recruit. Butler was mooneys first recruit coming in the summer of his hire and only recruit that year.

 

[urmite]

Jarhon was a wainwright recruit. Butler was mooneys first recruit coming in the summer of his hire and only recruit that year.

That is what I thought, I can't remember if Butler Redshirted. Because his first year playing seems to be Mooney's second season.

 

[urmite]

11/16 - Buckingham, Sherod, Golden
11/17 - Godwin, Schneider
I think you need to include Cline and Wood somehow too. they're recruited, just not freshmen.

I was mainly looking at freshmen, and trying to find a way to only list 2 per year, but that didn't seem to fit early.

 

[MrTbone]

Butler had a redshirt year.

 

[whampas]

Win 9 of 10 games at home and 7 of 10 games on the road each and every year, the rest takes care of itself.

 

[fan2011]

Win 9 of 10 games at home and 7 of 10 games on the road each and every year, the rest takes care of itself.

Your expectation is 24+ regular season wins every year? I think this is the most extreme expectation I have seen so far. There hasn't been a single A10 team to do this in the past 2 seasons.

 

[whampas]

Your expectation is 24+ regular season wins every year? I think this is the most extreme expectation I have seen so far. There hasn't been a single A10 team to do this in the past 2 seasons.

Okay. So what. How about, I expect the coaches and players to expect to win 100% of their games and prepare, coach, recruit and practice to accomplish that. Why would anyone have an expectation of losing?

 

[fan2011]

Okay. So what. How about, I expect the coaches and players to expect to win 100% of their games and prepare, coach, recruit and practice to accomplish that. Why would anyone have an expectation of losing?

The question posed was "what results would have made you happy". With those expectations it would not matter who our coach was, you would be unhappy. If you are going to criticize a coach or program for not meeting expectations, I think it is important to for the expectations to be at least close to realistic.

 

[whampas]

The question posed was "what results would have made you happy". With those expectations it would not matter who our coach was, you would be unhappy. If you are going to criticize a coach or program for not meeting expectations, I think it is important to for the expectations to be at least close to realistic.

Dayton, VCU, ST. Joes and GW all won 24+ games and I think the Bonnie won 22. If we want to finish in the top 2 or 3 in the A10 then that's what it will take. That's my expectation and I'm terribly disappointed.

 

[fan2011]

Dayton, VCU, ST. Joes and GW all won 24+ games and I think the Bonnie won 22. If we want to finish in the top 2 or 3 in the A10 then that's what it will take. That's my expectation and I'm terribly disappointed.

None of those teams won 90% of their home games and the only one to win 70% of their non-home games was St. Joes. None of them met your expectations.

 

[urmite]

Your expectation is 24+ regular season wins every year? I think this is the most extreme expectation I have seen so far. There hasn't been a single A10 team to do this in the past 2 seasons.

I am confused (which seems to be my resident state). How is 9 + 7 = 24+?

 

[urmite]

Butler had a redshirt year.

Somehow I forgot Mooney's first ever recruit had a redshirt, I suppose that was foreshadowing.

 

[fan2011]

I am confused (which seems to be my resident state). How is 9 + 7 = 24+?

We typically play ~16 home games and ~14 non-home games in the regular season. 16 * 0.9 + 14 * 0.7 = 24.2.

 

[64Spider]

Common core no doubt.

 

[urmite]

We typically play ~16 home games and ~14 non-home games in the regular season. 16 * 0.9 + 14 * 0.7 = 24.2.

Oh, I thought we were starting to play 20 game seasons. And going 16-4...

 

[urmite]

What is the average record of the 4 At-large teams in the first four the last 5 seasons?
or
The average record of the last 4 non P5 at-larges the last 5 seasons?

Shouldn't that be a reasonable goal?

 

[whampas]

None of those teams won 90% of their home games and the only one to win 70% of their non-home games was St. Joes. None of them met your expectations.

They all finished ahead of us. Three of them tied at the top. Close enough for me.