How can we get back to reaching back across the aisle?

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KW, lots of valid points. we, meaning everyone, have been saying the same thing for decades but it has never changed no matter the party in charge of the white house or the legislature. lots of politicians and pencil heads with great words and ideas but never ones which truly work. feel like some of the programs to help people have really created a dependent class with no hope of breaking that cycle, a govt as a father with no real father at home. we keep throwing money at our problems without really solving the root cause or issue. money does not fix things, like a ton of prescription drugs out there, they mask, cover up but don't cure. don't pretend to know the answer but suggest that keeping the same programs going is not the way and we need to find other avenues, options, real options, not "feel good" options (ones which make us feel like we are trying to help but which do not help at all but actually exacerbate the situation). after spending billions on something that did not work at all, they say it is really the thought that counts, does not matter if it worked or not, it was heartfelt. we need common sense solutions not feel good attempts. to me we have to solve the dependency issue before we can solve those other issues which are very related but again, just creating programs and throwing money at it, does not work.

 

[tarrantula]

I was interested in the references to Finland...a very unique country. Very socialistic government that seems to work well because they let few immigrants come to stay and with the controlled population can provide good education, health care and care for the elderly.

 

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T, you hit on it with your few immigrants deal. my norwegian friend says that the guy who killed all of those people there was right on the money as to how everyone feels in that country and now they are being run by others. of course she does not condone what this idiot did but says that everyone feels the same way, they screwed up with what they did. the french did the same and are paying for it and it will continue to get worse there as well. if you have a small country, might get away with taxing everyone to death and providing all with goodies. the usa is just no in the position to do that and we were not founded on those principals either. what we have created is a group of people, not by race, that wants, feels they are owed, to be taken care of by others. that is not productive, positive or reasonable. we have incrementally moved to this position over the last number of decades and now we are paying for it, well trying to pay for it but cannot afford it. i do not want to pay any more taxes for all this spending, just do not. am not selfish, far from it, give back financially and with my time to help others but do not want to continue to pour MY money into that toilet in dc. all they are going to do there is continue to raise the debt ceiling until it all comes tumbling down and then we can all just live miserable lives, what a treat. again, ALL spending, including defense, agriculture, education and on and on, cut it all, eliminate a lot of it, get out of a lot of things. for example, you have businesses who would love to run the interstate rest areas, the state spends millions while they could make money by selling the rights to these businesses, abc stores, get out of that business, so many things govt could do to reduce costs and maybe even make some money but it is about CONTROL, many do not wish to give up that power. govt has the power now that the founding father's feared and tried to protect us from in the early years. they micromanage everything, pass a bazillion laws every year which restrict us more and more and tell us what we can and cannot do. we are on a slippery slope and so many of our citizens just do not realize where we are both financially and liberty-wise. am not a libertarian but do understand their thoughts and support some of their ideas. think we need a strong central govt but we do need to scale it back and do certain things but get out of a lot of things as well, same goes for state and local govt, quit growing, creating new programs that cost more and more. it is obvious that they cannot afford to do what they do now much less add more to it, yet they keep on doing it. like i have said, if they do not wake up, it will take care of itself, we will implode and then we will all live in a manner we do not wish and maybe that is what some folks want.

 

[KWeaver]

It's funny to me that you use the disclaimer "I am not a libertarian, but I understand..." I understand the key points that a libertarian can pose, and, of course, the detrimental points as well. I feel the same way about socialism -- I sort of like the idea of everybody having just enough and being OK. I am pretty optimistic about most things in life, but I am a total pessimist when it comes to getting past the human tendency toward selfishness -- it prevents an ideally socialist situation from happening, and it exacerbates the ugly side of capitalism. Usually the only times that we practice selflessness and not selfishness are after some disaster, and we have to pull up our bootstraps and work together and get something done. That is where I truly wonder if it is too late in the US.

Regarding Finland, undoubtedly the homogeny helps to reach its goals. But, as a nation, again, they have simply decided to make education a priority, which is why generally educators consider Finland's education system to be the best in the world right now and the reason for which I mentioned Finland. Obviously it's not something that can be simply copied everywhere else, but certain principles can be copied and adapted. Teachers are truly given the responsibility to educate, and they are empowered to make decisions. They are not getting shouted down by the loudest mouth in one of their largest political parties while walking down the street, as there is respect for what they do. It just seems so simple, and yet so hard to change.

 

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my wife taught most of her life, in private schools, in public schools. she only enjoyed and felt wonderful for about 2 of those years. she taught in an all girls catholic academy in new york and that was the best, she was happy, looked forward to going to work each and every day and she was fulfilled. there was a dress code, uniforms, the students were motivated, the parents were motivated, it was a teaching atmosphere. that was over 30 years ago and she still hears from her students. she also had some good years in public schools but really so much disipline more than teaching and frustration over boring, meaningless meetings and paperwork. she still has students from public school who keep in touch too. just know at the end, she was completely frutrated, hated going to work and that is not the way it should be. our public education system is a tug of war on what to teach, how to teach, the unions and on and on. do know that we do not need a bureaucracy in washington controlling the money and if you do this, you get money, you don't do that and you don't get money. think henrico, the city of richmond, chesterfield know how to run themselves without a bunch of pinhead people in DC telling them what to do, get rid of that for starters. why send all that money to washington to then be redistributed back to the states? it is about power, control, not about education, not getting to the classroom where it needs to be. also have been to school district offices and they have created big bureaucracies that need to be cut back, again, get more into the classroom and less in the bureaucracy. i feel that govt is the most inefficient entity and here they are running education and we are getting what? my kids went to public schools not private and feel they got a good education, were prepared for college and did well there but they were in advanced classes, got the best teachers, etc., not sure what happened to those students who did not but probably did not receive as good a deal but not everyone should be going to college yet that seems to be the thing today, all should go to the next level, why?

 

[urfan1]

My wife is teaching and the big thing now is to "make education exciting", keep the kids "interested" Kids have shown varying degrees of interst since the beginning of time, what's going to change now. Good Administrators just need to get out of the way and let them teach. Decent administrators should review their teacher's sylibi and lesson plans, offer guidance, but stay out of the the way. Different methods and styles work with different kids, this is not a one size fits all world. We have standardized testing to "grade" how our teachers are perfoming. The Administration needs to have the ablilty to get rid of the ones not perfoming.

 

[Eight Legger]

The answer to the original question is that you will never see politicians reaching across the aisle at the national level in any meaningful way ? aside from during times of grave danger or conflict, such as 9/11 ? because there is too much at stake politically for any of them to be viewed as weak or willing to give in to the other side. If and when they do, it will be used against them internally by opponents in their own parties and certainly by members of the other party at the first chance they get.

That's why politics is broken ? everyone wants to take credit for something, anything, everything. Hardly anyone is willing to say, "You know what? That idea of yours is a good one and even though we disagree on fundamental issues, I'm with you on this particular one ? let's get it done."

Decades ago, that could happen because there were not 24-hour a day news channels devoted to spewing one party point of view or the other, waiting to pounce every time someone from the other party did anything that could be viewed as failure or controversial.

So today, we have developed a culture of actual hatred for people who have opposing political views from our own. We are largely unwilling to surrender our own views or even acknowledge occasions when the other side has a fair point. Why? Because we recall all those from the other side who pounced at every opportunity, and we are not willing to give them any more ammunition. You're either an idiot liberal who blindly follows Obama, a stuck-up, wealthy conservative who only cares about money or an insane libertarian who wants government to go away completely. (Not my views ? just illustrating the point.)

This is a cycle that will only get worse ? not better. There is no going back to where we once were.

 

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some really good observations Eight. just from speaking with my frat bro who served several terms in congress, the leadership just strong arms, threatens and makes your life miserable, both sides, he was on both. if either party could temper down the folks they put in those roles, maybe there could be some overlap again. think this financial deal will be the next 9-11 and could possibly be exponentially worse than that event.

 

[tarrantula]

I am not interested in getting back in the debate as I have mostly said my piece and am content with reading the thoughts of others. On brousing the posts above, I did read something that I had missed the first go round and that was Spiderfans link to Virgil Goode's platform. Virgil is a good friend and was my representative in the General Assembly for many years.

His platform mesh's with my own philosophy for the most part. I do not agree with an across the board abolishment of abortion. I would prefer a ban after the first trimester, with the exception that it could occur then if a doctor confirms that the life of the mother was at risk. (objective criteria for this standard could be adopted). This topic is a hot potato and ignites strong reactions from many. I have no interest in taking part in a debate. I stated my view and respect the right of any who feel the inclination to reply in disagreement. But, I agree with my old friend on most points in his platform as it is set forth above. Now, all he needs is Ron Paul to join forces and several wealthy patrons to come on board.

 

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i do not vote on the abortion issue at all but did have an interesting experience one day at work. was in my office when a senior VP walked in and shut my door. we talked about trivial stuff for a minute or two and then her eyes welled up with tears and i asked, what is wrong? she then sat there for 30 minutes and spilled her heart out that this was the day that she had gotten an abortion when she was 18 or 19 and a student in college. think she was probably 38 to 40 years old and that one event still tugged at her heart and she feels she should not have done it and still feels deep guilt. i had never encountered that type of thing before or since although i have had friends and friend's daughters who have had miscarriages and how devastating they were to those women. have learned that losing a baby is not that easy, a black and white deal, it lasts a lifetime and only glad i don't have to face those types of decisions. know that my encounter with my co-worker had a deep and very emotional effect on me, opened my eyes and my heart. the last item i read said we still have between one million and one and a half million abortions per year in this country, which is amazing when you think of all of the birth control measures that are available today.