Fordham game observations

[97spiderfan]

Yeah, I get that we didn't look great yesterday, but Fordham is very well coached and at the end of the day, we put a W in the column and that is all that matters. I saw 3 things that Fordham did very well that kept them in the game and in control of the game until the last 5 minutes.

1. If you watched Roomes, he just basically set up on the block on offense. He would move back and forth between each side of the basket but was always right there in great rebounding position all night. We never figured out how to move him from that area (which is tough because he is big)

2. Fordham took the playing off Deion to an extreme, they flat didn't guard him anywhere outside the paint. Strategy worked very well, Deion fell right into the trap and tried to make something happen on offense.

3. Fordham trapping defense on the perimeter really prevented us from getting into our offense. However, at about the 5 minute mark, Mooney made an adjustment and sent a big out to screen one of their players which allowed our guards penetration and 3 point opportunities.

A couple things on our end.

1. SDJ had a couple of sick shots, his behind the back floater was a thing of beauty, but the shot no one talked about was the big one he took and hit under two minutes. Long two, fade-away with a man right in his face, nothing but net.
2. Khwan Fore, this is why you need to have your playmakers on the floor as much as possible, especially during a comeback. Cause playmakers, make plays.
3. Terry Allen vs. TJ, saw on the other thread how people were miffed that Terry was left out of 1st team all A-10. Rightly so, but the past 4-5 games, our best most consistent player has been TJ. TJ is doing everything, we need Terry to step up.
4. Trey Davis: 5-6 from the FT line including the 2 that clinched it. Way to step up Trey.

Its mid February, I could care less about style points at this point. A win is a win and that is all that matters.

 

[SpiderK]

Yeah, I get that we didn't look great yesterday, but Fordham is very well coached and at the end of the day, we put a W in the column and that is all that matters. I saw 3 things that Fordham did very well that kept them in the game and in control of the game until the last 5 minutes.

1. If you watched Roomes, he just basically set up on the block on offense. He would move back and forth between each side of the basket but was always right there in great rebounding position all night. We never figured out how to move him from that area (which is tough because he is big)

2. Fordham took the playing off Deion to an extreme, they flat didn't guard him anywhere outside the paint. Strategy worked very well, Deion fell right into the trap and tried to make something happen on offense.

3. Fordham trapping defense on the perimeter really prevented us from getting into our offense. However, at about the 5 minute mark, Mooney made an adjustment and sent a big out to screen one of their players which allowed our guards penetration and 3 point opportunities.

A couple things on our end.

1. SDJ had a couple of sick shots, his behind the back floater was a thing of beauty, but the shot no one talked about was the big one he took and hit under two minutes. Long two, fade-away with a man right in his face, nothing but net.
2. Khwan Fore, this is why you need to have your playmakers on the floor as much as possible, especially during a comeback. Cause playmakers, make plays.
3. Terry Allen vs. TJ, saw on the other thread how people were miffed that Terry was left out of 1st team all A-10. Rightly so, but the past 4-5 games, our best most consistent player has been TJ. TJ is doing everything, we need Terry to step up.
4. Trey Davis: 5-6 from the FT line including the 2 that clinched it. Way to step up Trey.

Its mid February, I could care less about style points at this point. A win is a win and that is all that matters.

Excellent points. Fordham coach called every defense and offense each time the ball changed hands. He is a good coach and had a much better demeanor than most in the A-10.

We got the bottom of the barrel for refs last night. They missed many and made up many calls last night for both teams. Guess you could say that's fair, but I just call it incompetent. Player ran over SDJ at mid court, no call. Player charged smack into DT at end with no call. Groomes camped out in the lane the whole game with no 3 second call.

SDJ was a beast, and I can't say enough about Fore. Thank goodness for his energy and determination.

Sad to see TA quietly dissapearing again. He should be dropping 20 every night on these A-10 teams.

Mooney did see what they were doing to DT, after the 3 point brick, he started his defense/offense substitutions early to get him out.

TD was more active on both ends. Glad to see that. He did come up big at the line.

It's obvious to everyone on the board that our defensive rebounding is just horrible and is the Achilles heel of any defense we employ. Every team knows to just throw the ball at the basket and go get it. We have three guys trying to block the shot and no one in position to rebound or God forbid box out!!

 

[spiders13]

I'm baffled by the lack of 3 second calls. I understand how it's not called that much, but when it's as blatantly obvious as it was last night, you'd think they'd have used the whistle

 

[SpiderK]

I'm baffled by the lack of 3 second calls. I understand how it's not called that much, but when it's as blatantly obvious as it was last night, you'd think they'd have used the whistle

If they ever call 3 seconds, it's usually very early in the game. It's never called in the second half.

 

[AnnapSpider]

I was shocked by how many of our passes got intercepted or at least tipped. Running any offense, whether it's our quasi Princeton offense, or a run and shoot, passing is so important. I can't believe that Fordham is any better
than any other A10 team at getting to our passes. Our players are better than they showed. They have to focus on their passing like a quarterback focuses not to throw interceptions.

 

[spider fan]

Number 12, Joseph Chartouny, a freshman, for Fordham employed the same move a number of times, receiving the ball at either the top of the key or further out, heading toward the basket and then moving to the left and although at times it looked like he might pass the ball, taking the ball to the hoop with only token resistance and finishing with 13 points. Admittedly he is not shy about shooting hoisting up 16 shots of which he made only 6 including of 1 of 7 from 3 point range. Fordham shot 60 times compared to our 45 but that was possible because they thrashed us on offensive boards 17 to 3. Totally agree that the 3 second unmade calls in the lane were blatantly obvious to even the most casual observer as well as a number of noncalled fumble the ball, keep moving and blatant double dribble..............

 

[Spider B]

Speaking of missed calls, how did the refs miss that charge call late in the game and the call where I think Shawndre was pushed from behind after a steal and ended up turning the ball over. Those two seemed like obvious calls to me.

 

[SpiderK]

Speaking of missed calls, how did the refs miss that charge call late in the game and the call where I think Shawndre was pushed from behind after a steal and ended up turning the ball over. Those two seemed like obvious calls to me.

I mentioned both of those above. No idea how they could miss those.

 

[Spider B]

I mentioned both of those above. No idea how they could miss those.

Sorry K, I must have overlooked your post.

 

[KWeaver]

17 offensive boards? What bad shooting! What bad defensive rebounding!

 

[SpiderK]

Sorry K, I must have overlooked your post.

SpiderB, I didn't care about my prior post, hope you know I just meant that I didn't know how the refs missed those calls.

 

[urfan1]

I think a number of fans saw the same --many questionable calls

 

[97spiderfan]

That block they called on Deion at the end of the game was really bad. Deion could have eaten a sandwich while he waited for the contact.

 

[MrVCU:]

Probably a good thing Mandell Thomas didn't play. Saw that he was hurt, why did Severe not play? Coach's decision?? He's always been a head case......

 

[spiderjpo]

Couple of positives in this game were clutch play at crunch time by several plsyers. ShawnDre' took and made a contested jumper, TJ made a big three pointer, Khwan had enough confidence after his second steal to go one on two to score and Trey hit two free throws to ice game. Hopefully this confidence will continue this week.

 

[SpiderK]

Probably a good thing Mandell Thomas didn't play. Saw that he was hurt, why did Severe not play? Coach's decision?? He's always been a head case......

They both played in UR game at their home in NY and lost by 9.

 

[Marley13]

Biggest observation is that Fordham sucks and we were lucky to beat them.

 

[Ulla1]

Fordham was not a bad team and their defense would have stymied most teams. While the Spiders did not play with enthusiasm the whole game, they brought it at crunch time. OSC

 

[Marley13]

12-11 and 3-9 in conference. Yeah they're a good team.

 

[Ulla1]

12-11 and 3-9 in conference. Yeah they're a good team.

A team with a similar record, UMass, beat vdu and others. OSC

 

[Marley13]

So?

 

[AnnapSpider]

I really think next year Fordham will not be the Fordham that we've grown to know and love as a W.
They have a good coach and those two freshman were very good.

 

[SpiderK]

MrVDU

I really think next year Fordham will not be the Fordham that we've grown to know and love as a W.
They have a good coach and those two freshman were very good.

I think we will get better next year too.

 

[Marley13]

Next year is always better.

 

[SpiderK]

Next year is always better.

After noon of 1/20/2017 it will be.

 

[SpiderRick]

Marley you took the words right out of my mouth. Wait until next year. We have an opportunity to finish strong this year but even that's becoming a familiar story. Dig ourselves in a hole by under performing, have a late season charge, only to come up just short yet again. We all long for a full season of good, consistent basketball.

 

[SpiderK]

Marley you took the words right out of my mouth. Wait until next year. We have an opportunity to finish strong this year but even that's becoming a familiar story. Dig ourselves in a hole by under performing, have a late season charge, only to come up just short yet again. We all long for a full season of good, consistent basketball.

We have the "opportunity" to win the next 16 games in a row but luckily we only need to win the last 10.

 

[Eight Legger]

Really wanted to see us send in someone to take 33 out of the game last night. What an annoying player. I kinda wanted to see him broken in half.

 

[Ulla1]

Just watched several times Khwan's steal and layup near the end of the game. Two things stand out. One, Khwan is truly incredibly quick and athletic coupled with being skilled and creative. I mean who steals the ball with time running out, turns looks at the basket only to see two defenders both bigger than he is, decides "Hey, bring'em on", then takes the ball to the hoop and beats both guys for a basket. Watch the play over a few times, consider the time constraints; just an amazing play. Second, Khwan humbly and quietly has no fear. He seems to be nearly always in control and a certain peace seems to surround him. Really am happy that Khwan is on our team. OSC

 

[urfan1]

I know others played well but I would have given the game ball to Khwan.

 

[SpiderRick]

The only thing I worry about with Khwan is that he is very aggressive and unafraid, which doesn't fit in to the Mooney philosophy. He also crashes the boards (which I wish our bigs would do) and goes for rebounds. Chris Mooney, please let Khwan play HIS game.

 

[MrTbone]

The only thing I worry about with Khwan is that he is very aggressive and unafraid, which doesn't fit in to the Mooney philosophy. He also crashes the boards (which I wish our bigs would do) and goes for rebounds. Chris Mooney, please let Khwan play HIS game.

Over the last 7 games, Khwan is getting over 25 mpg. He also has 28 steals which is third on the team. I don't think CM has any issues with his style of play.

 

[Ulla1]

Tbone, agree 100%. In fact, Coach has nothing but big smiles and praise for Khwan. One of our coaches told me that Khwan is extremely coachable. Moreover, always says "Yes, sir". What a great young man. OSC

 

[urmite]

Probably a good thing Mandell Thomas didn't play. Saw that he was hurt, why did Severe not play? Coach's decision?? He's always been a head case......

Chartouney was injured and didn't play the first game and took the injured Thomas minutes this game.
Severe has become too much of a loose cannon and playing less the last few games. #33 has taken his minutes and so fewer 3 guard lineups.

 

[Rivercup]

While I realize that Fordham's record is not good, they played an excellent game against us and really should have won if not for the heroics of Fore, Jones, Cline and Davis. My observations:

1. Defensively they were overplaying everyone except Taylor. What that meant was making passes was difficult because the defense was playing the player all over the court. initially, this caused us some confusion. The way to beat this is by cutting back door and we started to do that about 7 minutes into the game. We could have taken better advantage of this but the Fordham players, when they were beaten back door, would throw their hands out and if we did not bounce pass, they deflected a lot of balls. The other thing they did was double team the low post when the ball was thrown in. This is why Allen didn't score much.

2. Our defense was more intense than several games ago but I thought that a key was the consistent switch to the 3-2 zone. This caused Fordham to pass the ball around the perimeter a lot and they ended up taking hurried 3-point shots which were pretty inaccurate. They really had trouble getting the ball inside against the zone.

3. Re: defensive rebounding, sometimes it is a matter of picking your poison. Whoever was guarding the big man inside would try to front him to prevent the entry pass. When you do that, you have given him the inside position for rebounding and he was too big and strong to move. If you play behind him to get better rebounding position, the entry pass is easy and he was a pretty skilled offensive player down low so you don't want to do that. This does not excuse the other players for not getting position on their men but the big guy was always in the best rebounding position.

4. This game and the VCU/UMass game show us that "on any given Saturday" (or Monday, Tuesday, etc.) that any A-10 team can beat any other A-10 team. Davidson lost to that awful GMU team that beat us so maybe they aren't so awful anymore. We beat UMass by 16 and didn't play that well and UMass turns around and beats VCU pretty easily. I believe that all of our remaining games are winnable, however they are also loseable. There is still much to be determined.

 

[MrTbone]

Excellent point on #3, this is often an overlooked part of our rebounding troubles.

 

[Eight Legger]

Am I correct in thinking that a 3-2 defense is going to be more effective at preventing outside shooting but more susceptible to allowing interior points, whereas a 2-3 does basically the opposite? So we ought to be playing 3-2 a lot against the teams that otherwise would kill us from deep, and there were a lot of them earlier this year, which I imagine is what prompted this change to begin with.

As for the rebounding, we've talked in another thread about how it seems we often have guys camped out immediately beneath the basket, where they will never get a rebound when there's an outside shot. But when a big guy gets position and misses his shot, he can keep getting rebounds if we were fronting him to prevent the interior passes, as described above. Not sure what the formula for success is there.

 

[97spiderfan]

Julius and Deion are the most notorious offenders of being directly under the basket when a shot goes up. They are in prime position to collect a made shot that goes through the net, terrible position though if it doesn't.

I think the strategy is the quicker they get the ball after the made basket, the faster we can get the ball to SDJ, who can then race down the court, only to pull up and then set up the offense.

 

[SpiderK]

Julius and Deion are the most notorious offenders of being directly under the basket when a shot goes up. They are in prime position to collect a made shot that goes through the net, terrible position though if it doesn't.

I think the strategy is the quicker they get the ball after the made basket, the faster we can get the ball to SDJ, who can then race down the court, only to pull up and then set up the offense.

Got a good laugh out of "prime position to collect a made shot". It's so true. Either 3 guys trying to block the same shot or they are just under the rim on a 3 point shot. All of which is out of position. I would like Fan2011 to draw up some statistical diagrams of where a certain type shot will most likely end up and hand it out to our team to study. Give them credit for a Physics and Statistics class!!

 

[fan2011]

Got a good laugh out of "prime position to collect a made shot". It's so true. Either 3 guys trying to block the same shot or they are just under the rim on a 3 point shot. All of which is out of position. I would like Fan2011 to draw up some statistical diagrams of where a certain type shot will most likely end up and hand it out to our team to study. Give them credit for a Physics and Statistics class!!

Here is a very cool interactive graphic by Kirk Goldsberry. It is for the NBA, but it very interesting. You move your mouse to the location on the court a shot is taken and it shows you where the rebound is likely to occur. Very fun to play with.

http://grantland.com/features/how-rebounds-work/