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Defense

PhillySpider

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May 14, 2003
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I honestly just can’t take any more of watching us on defense. Worst defensive team I have ever seen. Period. Full stop.

And we are every bit as bad now as we were against Longwood and every bit as bad as last year. Worst team by FAR at any level in keeping our man in front of us (recruiting issue). Worst team BY FAR at understanding what you are supposed to be doing (teaching problem or scheme problem). Won’t even discuss rebounding. We can only win if we either shoot 60% ourselves or the other team happens to simply miss a lot of open shots. Open shots. We never shut anyone down or limit their good looks. Offensively we are fine. Pretty good even. But if you are going to be the worst team in the country rebounding (by choice) AND on defense (not by choice) it’s going to be really hard to win. And no signs that either of those phases of the game are getting any better.

And some folks on this board see a game where we do shoot 58% and win and see “progress”. No, you saw a good better then normal shooting night. Nothing more. We have them. Not every night but sometimes. But if the only way you win is to have an exceptional shooting night, you are what we are- - - a bad team.

Defense is schemed and taught etc. You can be a good defensive team even when you are not as athletic etc. as your opponent. There are tons of teams that do it. There is a defense for every team that can work to be at least passable unless your talent level is just so far below your peers.

But whether it’s talent level or lack of knowledge about defenses and schemes and theories that would work for your talent, or lack of willingness to commit to change, or a lack of teaching ability or lack of leadership ability to get the buy in you need to be better on defense or some combo of all of the above, it’s all coaching. Period. We are this bad defensively this year and for several years because of coaching. All above are coach problems.

Being consistently bad here year in and year out and from beginning of years to end of years and with different player groups is the clearest sign of why we need to make the change at the top. He doesn’t have a solution and isn’t going to. He knows more than we do how bad we are defensively and that that’s where the major problem is, but he can’t get it fixed. Again, this is a multi year and different player groups problem that has been, if anything, getting progressively worse. He’s not going to suddenly have an epiphany of defensive theory and teaching ability next week or next year. He’s done all he’s capable of at his point and here we are, watching virtually every team get endless drives and wide open jumpers.

And I can’t take it any more. It’s more than losing, its how we are losing. And seeing so clearly how it’s not going to change unless we make a change!
 
I honestly just can’t take any more of watching us on defense. Worst defensive team I have ever seen. Period. Full stop.

And we are every bit as bad now as we were against Longwood and every bit as bad as last year. Worst team by FAR at any level in keeping our man in front of us (recruiting issue). Worst team BY FAR at understanding what you are supposed to be doing (teaching problem or scheme problem). Won’t even discuss rebounding. We can only win if we either shoot 60% ourselves or the other team happens to simply miss a lot of open shots. Open shots. We never shut anyone down or limit their good looks. Offensively we are fine. Pretty good even. But if you are going to be the worst team in the country rebounding (by choice) AND on defense (not by choice) it’s going to be really hard to win. And no signs that either of those phases of the game are getting any better.

And some folks on this board see a game where we do shoot 58% and win and see “progress”. No, you saw a good better then normal shooting night. Nothing more. We have them. Not every night but sometimes. But if the only way you win is to have an exceptional shooting night, you are what we are- - - a bad team.

Defense is schemed and taught etc. You can be a good defensive team even when you are not as athletic etc. as your opponent. There are tons of teams that do it. There is a defense for every team that can work to be at least passable unless your talent level is just so far below your peers.

But whether it’s talent level or lack of knowledge about defenses and schemes and theories that would work for your talent, or lack of willingness to commit to change, or a lack of teaching ability or lack of leadership ability to get the buy in you need to be better on defense or some combo of all of the above, it’s all coaching. Period. We are this bad defensively this year and for several years because of coaching. All above are coach problems.

Being consistently bad here year in and year out and from beginning of years to end of years and with different player groups is the clearest sign of why we need to make the change at the top. He doesn’t have a solution and isn’t going to. He knows more than we do how bad we are defensively and that that’s where the major problem is, but he can’t get it fixed. Again, this is a multi year and different player groups problem that has been, if anything, getting progressively worse. He’s not going to suddenly have an epiphany of defensive theory and teaching ability next week or next year. He’s done all he’s capable of at his point and here we are, watching virtually every team get endless drives and wide open jumpers.

And I can’t take it any more. It’s more than losing, its how we are losing. And seeing so clearly how it’s not going to change unless we make a change!
Preach!!!
 
Philly, been saying this all year too. No emphasis on defense at all. And truthers on here say look at best class ever next year. Well we may win 17 or 19 next year if everything falls right but that us our absolute ceiling with this defense. Do we get better on D next year with Sherod and another small guard?
 
I honestly just can’t take any more of watching us on defense. Worst defensive team I have ever seen. Period. Full stop.

And we are every bit as bad now as we were against Longwood and every bit as bad as last year. Worst team by FAR at any level in keeping our man in front of us (recruiting issue). Worst team BY FAR at understanding what you are supposed to be doing (teaching problem or scheme problem). Won’t even discuss rebounding. We can only win if we either shoot 60% ourselves or the other team happens to simply miss a lot of open shots. Open shots. We never shut anyone down or limit their good looks. Offensively we are fine. Pretty good even. But if you are going to be the worst team in the country rebounding (by choice) AND on defense (not by choice) it’s going to be really hard to win. And no signs that either of those phases of the game are getting any better.

And some folks on this board see a game where we do shoot 58% and win and see “progress”. No, you saw a good better then normal shooting night. Nothing more. We have them. Not every night but sometimes. But if the only way you win is to have an exceptional shooting night, you are what we are- - - a bad team.

Defense is schemed and taught etc. You can be a good defensive team even when you are not as athletic etc. as your opponent. There are tons of teams that do it. There is a defense for every team that can work to be at least passable unless your talent level is just so far below your peers.

But whether it’s talent level or lack of knowledge about defenses and schemes and theories that would work for your talent, or lack of willingness to commit to change, or a lack of teaching ability or lack of leadership ability to get the buy in you need to be better on defense or some combo of all of the above, it’s all coaching. Period. We are this bad defensively this year and for several years because of coaching. All above are coach problems.

Being consistently bad here year in and year out and from beginning of years to end of years and with different player groups is the clearest sign of why we need to make the change at the top. He doesn’t have a solution and isn’t going to. He knows more than we do how bad we are defensively and that that’s where the major problem is, but he can’t get it fixed. Again, this is a multi year and different player groups problem that has been, if anything, getting progressively worse. He’s not going to suddenly have an epiphany of defensive theory and teaching ability next week or next year. He’s done all he’s capable of at his point and here we are, watching virtually every team get endless drives and wide open jumpers.

And I can’t take it any more. It’s more than losing, its how we are losing. And seeing so clearly how it’s not going to change unless we make a change!

Really appreciated the well thought out post.
 


VCU may have had more dunks last night than we've had all season.

You couldn't have 2 teams be more opposite defensively than the two that played last night. Give Rhodes credit, he completely turned the table from last year with the level of effort that those dudes give on defense, they've bought in where Tillman, Williams, etc. didn't. Good defensive teams exert max effort and have pride in their defense. We're so damn passive and "delicate" and have been for years.
 
Sad to say but next year is likely to be even worse. Sherod is a matador defender. The size of Francis and Gilyard together in the backcourt will present significant defensive challenges.

Agree with you that next year's team should be pretty darn good offensively, but if they can't contain anybody, it won't bode well for their overall record.
 


VCU may have had more dunks last night than we've had all season.

You couldn't have 2 teams be more opposite defensively than the two that played last night. Give Rhodes credit, he completely turned the table from last year with the level of effort that those dudes give on defense, they've bought in where Tillman, Williams, etc. didn't. Good defensive teams exert max effort and have pride in their defense. We're so damn passive and "delicate" and have been for years.

I know posters on this board hate talking or acknowledging VCU but it's becoming crystal clear that last year was an anomaly for them (Not going to the tournament) and 2010-11 was an anomaly for us.
 
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I honestly just can’t take any more of watching us on defense. Worst defensive team I have ever seen. Period. Full stop.

And we are every bit as bad now as we were against Longwood and every bit as bad as last year. Worst team by FAR at any level in keeping our man in front of us (recruiting issue). Worst team BY FAR at understanding what you are supposed to be doing (teaching problem or scheme problem). Won’t even discuss rebounding. We can only win if we either shoot 60% ourselves or the other team happens to simply miss a lot of open shots. Open shots. We never shut anyone down or limit their good looks. Offensively we are fine. Pretty good even. But if you are going to be the worst team in the country rebounding (by choice) AND on defense (not by choice) it’s going to be really hard to win. And no signs that either of those phases of the game are getting any better.

And some folks on this board see a game where we do shoot 58% and win and see “progress”. No, you saw a good better then normal shooting night. Nothing more. We have them. Not every night but sometimes. But if the only way you win is to have an exceptional shooting night, you are what we are- - - a bad team.

Defense is schemed and taught etc. You can be a good defensive team even when you are not as athletic etc. as your opponent. There are tons of teams that do it. There is a defense for every team that can work to be at least passable unless your talent level is just so far below your peers.

But whether it’s talent level or lack of knowledge about defenses and schemes and theories that would work for your talent, or lack of willingness to commit to change, or a lack of teaching ability or lack of leadership ability to get the buy in you need to be better on defense or some combo of all of the above, it’s all coaching. Period. We are this bad defensively this year and for several years because of coaching. All above are coach problems.

Being consistently bad here year in and year out and from beginning of years to end of years and with different player groups is the clearest sign of why we need to make the change at the top. He doesn’t have a solution and isn’t going to. He knows more than we do how bad we are defensively and that that’s where the major problem is, but he can’t get it fixed. Again, this is a multi year and different player groups problem that has been, if anything, getting progressively worse. He’s not going to suddenly have an epiphany of defensive theory and teaching ability next week or next year. He’s done all he’s capable of at his point and here we are, watching virtually every team get endless drives and wide open jumpers.

And I can’t take it any more. It’s more than losing, its how we are losing. And seeing so clearly how it’s not going to change unless we make a change!

The thing i just cannot understand for the life of me is Paul Queally. He's a Private Equity guy. He has spent his career evaluating business ideas, and balance sheets and profit and loss statements and cash flow analysis.

If Spider basketball was a company, it would have declining revenue, a shrinking bottom line, poor customer attrition, and a historically high PE ratio. Why the hell does he keep shoveling more money into this company's furnace?

Perhaps he really like the business idea. Wouldn't that be all the more reason to seek a new CEO?
 
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And poor executive leadership team, lack of overall strategic direction or plan. Poor results relative to main competitors.

Many red flags.
 
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So many things about this post.

1. Grant Golden plays zero interior defense. As soon as a guy turns him, he just lets him through to either dunk or have an uncontested lay-up. I don't know if he is being taught this or if this is just who he is as a defender, but it is soft.
2. Dunks. We get dunked on and posterized so often. This is demoralizing. It is not just two points, it is one team telling another team who are the men on the floor and who are not. On the flip side, we literally have 2 guys who can legit dunk in a game (Cayo and Golden). We are a damn Div. 1 A-10 team, that is beyond pathetic.
3. Rebounding. Also completely demorarlizing. We are 349th out of 353 teams in the country. How in the absolute hell are we this bad.

We looked like the VCU JV team out there last night. We were embarrassed and undressed on National TV.

Sorry, I'm done with my vent. I'm done with this program. It is a joke. Anyone defending the status quo at this point is delusional.
 
In terms of Dunks, one telling sign that we do not have enough talent and athleticism to win (or even compete) in the A10 was when Gustavson had a gimmie thst was blocked from behind.

This is the guy who is supposed to be our most athletic player and he gets a perfect pass and wide open opportunity to finish with a dunk and he goes up for a slow and easy layup and a VCU player comes flying in from behind to cleanly reject it.

If that isn’t enough evidence for our AD to realize that Mooney can no longer recruit in this league then I’m not sure what is. And that isn’t a shot at Gustavson because I believe he has some potential to be a role player in the A10. But there is no way in hell he should be our best athlete.
 
In terms of Dunks, one telling sign that we do not have enough talent and athleticism to win (or even compete) in the A10 was when Gustavson had a gimmie thst was blocked from behind.

This is the guy who is supposed to be our most athletic player and he gets a perfect pass and wide open opportunity to finish with a dunk and he goes up for a slow and easy layup and a VCU player comes flying in from behind to cleanly reject it.

If that isn’t enough evidence for our AD to realize that Mooney can no longer recruit in this league then I’m not sure what is. And that isn’t a shot at Gustavson because I believe he has some potential to be a role player in the A10. But there is no way in hell he should be our best athlete.

Watch the "small" conference tournaments in March the week before all the big guys play. Big South, etc. Those teams have multiple guys that dunk, rim protect, and are athletic defenders. But we can't seem to recruit anyone who can do these things? I'm tried of the excuses and this soft, finesse style of play. It's time for Hardt and our administration to start showing that we are serious about basketball.
 
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The thing i just cannot understand for the life of me is Paul Queally. He's a Private Equity guy. He has spent his career evaluating business ideas, and balance sheets and profit and loss statements and cash flow analysis.

If Spider basketball was a company, it would have declining revenue, a shrinking bottom line, poor customer attrition, and a historically high PE ratio. Why the hell does he keep shoveling more money into this company's furnace?

Perhaps he really like the business idea. Wouldn't that be all the more reason to seek a new CEO?
See Dan Snyder lol
 
I really hate watching Golden play defense 98% of the time. It drives me insane. He does so many things wrong, that I have come to a conclusion that it's both poor instincts and poor instruction. On the other hand, in an effort to be fair and balanced, I really enjoy and appreciate him on offense 98% of the time. I think it is both good instincts and good instruction.

I also hate the way we close out on people on the perimeter. Out of control, completely upright, not closing off the baseline, etc. This also drives me insane. I think this is 100% poor instruction.
 
I really hate watching Golden play defense 98% of the time. It drives me insane. He does so many things wrong, that I have come to a conclusion that it's both poor instincts and poor instruction. On the other hand, in an effort to be fair and balanced, I really enjoy and appreciate him on offense 98% of the time. I think it is both good instincts and good instruction.

I also hate the way we close out on people on the perimeter. Out of control, completely upright, not closing off the baseline, etc. This also drives me insane. I think this is 100% poor instruction.

The first VCU dunk by Williams shows everything you say in your 2nd point. I can't find the video now, but will post if I can. Yates was the defender.

Edit - with video

 
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In terms of Dunks, one telling sign that we do not have enough talent and athleticism to win (or even compete) in the A10 was when Gustavson had a gimmie thst was blocked from behind.

This is the guy who is supposed to be our most athletic player and he gets a perfect pass and wide open opportunity to finish with a dunk and he goes up for a slow and easy layup and a VCU player comes flying in from behind to cleanly reject it.

If that isn’t enough evidence for our AD to realize that Mooney can no longer recruit in this league then I’m not sure what is. And that isn’t a shot at Gustavson because I believe he has some potential to be a role player in the A10. But there is no way in hell he should be our best athlete.
Gustavson would be the probably 10th best athlete on VCU, Dayton, SLU, Rhody. He is our "best".
 
Another example was JG jumping and landing on the shooter at the top of the key. granted that clearly was a non-shooting foul yet they gave him shots. but more importantly ... why is JG ever trying to block a shot? stop it.
 
Gustavson would be the probably 10th best athlete on VCU, Dayton, SLU, Rhody. He is our "best".
Cayo is our best athlete. I’d put gilyard second. Probably Sal third. Then maybe Dre.

I get your point, but Dre isn’t our best athlete.
 
Cayo is our best athlete. I’d put gilyard second. Probably Sal third. Then maybe Dre.

I get your point, but Dre isn’t our best athlete.
Bob Black has said he was on a number of occasions. I'm not the one anointing him our best athlete.
 
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Yes Gust has his issues but wish the guy was 6-9 ... 6-10. The way he wasn't timid about trying to stop that dunk. Only if Mooney's team had a big man who wasn't afraid to protect the paint. Sal too, a few bad fouls but how can I not like this guy with that wingspan who can handle the ball. Liked Mooney when he even subbed him in for GG. Like both these players going forward, one as PG sub and other as starter.
 
Another example was JG jumping and landing on the shooter at the top of the key. granted that clearly was a non-shooting foul yet they gave him shots. but more importantly ... why is JG ever trying to block a shot? stop it.
Flying Dutchman bruv. This is being taught by someone on our staff as a legitimate defensive technique.
 
Philly, been saying this all year too. No emphasis on defense at all. And truthers on here say look at best class ever next year. Well we may win 17 or 19 next year if everything falls right but that us our absolute ceiling with this defense. Do we get better on D next year with Sherod and another small guard?
Whatever happened to the matchup zone you used to run?
 
I'd have to watch again and I don't want to do that to myself, but the last few weeks I think we've run very little match-up.
more straight 2-3 and man.
 
At one time UR had one of the best defenses in the country. It always gave us fits.
 
Tickman. Key word in your message is "one". When you only run one defense everybody figures it out and then it is no longer effective.
 
Tickman. Key word in your message is "one". When you only run one defense everybody figures it out and then it is no longer effective.
I don’t think it’s a matter of anyone figuring it out. All defenses have means by which they can be broken down.

Our problem is we don’t execute our defense well in any meaningful way. We are the problem, not the opposing coaches.
 
Once again, defense is the theme IMO.

I especially remember one sequence late in the game, we made a big hoop to cut it to 2 0r 3. The very next play down, SJU shooter was wide open, I mean no one on the same side of the court and calmly swished it to kill our run.

As noted by Philly, guys standing up straight on the perimeter. Burton just lets the guy drive right by him and then try to block it from behind. Too often with him.

Dji and WIlson best perimeter defenders last night. As true freshman, that tells you they got good coaching in hs and AAU.

I mean Mooney had to have a sit down with Hardt to change the defense finally last year? Crazy.

There were a half dozen plays that even Beck and Bob criticized the defensive effort, believe it or not. This is just not the culture Mooney instills. There are X's and O's, but this issue is more about basics, and intensity, and HAVING to play on that end or sit on the bench.
 
What are we doing in these clips


With that first one looks like a blown assignment and guys aren't communicating to each other on the court. You have got to open your mouth and talk on the court. The second one the perimeter defender..looks like Tyler is basically standing up and is not low causing help side to react but did so slowly. We def need to be better up top on the perimeter. That keeps guys down low out of foul trouble to say the least. The third to me seems that Cayo just went in way too deep and then Goose is slow to react and close out...maybe bc he was behind the NBA line
🤷‍♂️
 
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Once again, defense is the theme IMO.

I especially remember one sequence late in the game, we made a big hoop to cut it to 2 0r 3. The very next play down, SJU shooter was wide open, I mean no one on the same side of the court and calmly swished it to kill our run.

As noted by Philly, guys standing up straight on the perimeter. Burton just lets the guy drive right by him and then try to block it from behind. Too often with him.

Dji and WIlson best perimeter defenders last night. As true freshman, that tells you they got good coaching in hs and AAU.

I mean Mooney had to have a sit down with Hardt to change the defense finally last year? Crazy.

There were a half dozen plays that even Beck and Bob criticized the defensive effort, believe it or not. This is just not the culture Mooney instills. There are X's and O's, but this issue is more about basics, and intensity, and HAVING to play on that end or sit on the bench.
Dji got amazing coaching at Garner Road...Having David West 2X World champ as your mentor and coach for 5 years doesn't hurt either 😀 I thought Dji and Zay were our best perimeter defenders last night as well. They still have a lot to learn but I loved what I saw. Dji was our lock down guy in AAU. He held Kerwin Walton in Check with only 5 pts when we played them in the Adidas National semis. He is very long and knows how to use his body & move his feet, just needs to get stronger at this level. David would always put Dji on the best offensive guards on the circuit and Dji always was solid. Love Zay's energy and toughness too. But our other guards have to have that too, or at the very least they need (guards) to get lower and stop being casual on D. At least that is how it appears to me. I think being critical of guys is fair as long as we don't personally attack kids. One thing is certain and that is we need to be better defensively and we may have run out of time this season.
 
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